Ohh I actually haven't thought that people were self inserting into Sungji and Won lol. It actually makes a lot of sense if that's the case.
I don't self insert myself into any character of a pairing, so I haven't thought of it this way. I empathize with both of the characters in a pairing, that's why I want to like both characters in order to ship them.

Regardless, what I meant by Seju and Sumin is that at least some of these characters had depth. In the other works like LL or Pulse, I like anyone from the pairings enough. So comparing wdtfs with these works is not fair imo.

Pulse and Lilly love are not just badly written, they have annoying characters as well. Like for example in Lilly Love, almost all males are shown to be abusive. In Pulse, literally every woman wants the doctor for no reason.
Sumin has been with a lot of women, but they are not randoms like the ones in Pulse. Also there is a deeper reason they made her character like that, and that is to show how damaged she was. In Pulse there is no reason to make doctor unbelievably desired, other than forcing the reader to like her because everyone else does.
The character is badly written if you look at them as a third person, but some people want a bland mc who they can fulfill their fantasies through, like being magically wanted by many people.
With Sumin her bad habits and using sex as an escapism stops that fantasy and makes it more real. When you add something so blatantly positive to a character, in order for them to be more human and balanced, you should add a negative side to it as well. Sumin has that negative side, doctor doesn't.
The Pulse author also tried to add an ex antagonist who resembled Seju at some point, but she just ended up making her pure evil, cringy and unlikable. Wdtfs got the antagonist right and they made her sympathetic.

Good riddance

YA= young adult genre. Think of Twillight as an example. They most of the time have a bland female mc, and two guys competing over her. Most of the stories for YA use the same cliches (love triangle, mc who doesn't belief in herself but for some reason every guy wants her etc) and usually some fantasy elements.

It's the worst fiction genre, and a lot of other agree on this being pretty problematic. But teens eat these stories up.

My conclusion is indeed the writing used to be so good probably due to the Team GJ writer suffering from depression. Never has emotional suffering been better utilized, clearly.

Oh I was thinking about that for years now. Especially seeing how different the Sumin and Sungji arc felt. Also how fast the love between Seju and Won is developing. I would also say the author/artist has gone through a similar situation like Seju and Sumin before.

Anyway, it seems like simple stories like that is what people drink like water. If you check the YA books as well, the love interests are way worse than that, and generic love triangles get much more praise than deserved.
YA stories with teen audience need a different format. I guess the main audience for romance in manga too is these ages as well.
I'm not saying there's something wrong with that, but the problem is when you market it differently from the start, then change direction.
Wdtfs was more of an adult story, but lately I feel like it fits into a teen audience better.

However I still wouldn't compare wdtfs with Lilly Love or Pulse. These are pretty bad, worse than citrus.

I really like the Sci fi elements here. Probably my favorite part of the manga, although there's definitely room to make it more complicated

Wish people treated lolicons like that as well. I mean, it's funny how everyone hates Boku no Pico so much (and understandably so) but no one gaf about the tons of similar loli stuff out there...

There are tons of boring mangas out there. Yet this is the trash? Trashy characters is different than trash manga. It's like reading for example Dexter, then saying the book was bad because the guy was a serial killer. That's exactly the point of the story. To showcast characters like that. It is not supposed to be a happy cUtE story.
Hotaru is not a good person. But it's interesting to explore things from someone's like that perspective. Why she ended up with that abusive guy, and how are her feelings connected to Yuma?
I also disagree that Yuma was a bad person. She was naive, but she wasn't unlikeable (to me). The only unredeemable character imo was Fujiwara.
The ending was a bit rushed, but I'm not saying this is a perfect story.
I personally like Kodama for this exact reason. I also liked her Cocytus story.

last edited at Jul 25, 2019 7:50AM

That was a nice manga. Just wanted to add, it's unrealistic how they knew when it is supposed to end with a man, but they didn't know when it ends with two women lol.

I'd personally like this arc more if I could read it as an individual story. But I think that Sumin flashback during their sex scene would still catch my attention.

last edited at Jul 17, 2019 12:02PM

Mind you, one of the reasons why I was 100% satisfied with the open ending of One, of Seju simply taking off and leaving everything behind, and was very concerned when I came to know they were going to make a series with her as main character, is because I could already tell writing a decent, believable story that shows a person like Seju healing after 107 chapters of pining over Sumin and family conflicts would be extremely difficult.

I agree with this. It is objectively really hard to outdo the storyline from season 1. I believe TG got carried away by their personal feelings and kept making Seju more important to the story than they originally planned. With the Sumin x Sungji and Seju x Won you can tell there's a more professional/distant outlook of creating a character. I believe their usual writing is similar to these two pairings.
Generally, there's a pattern when you have to come up with a character. You think of what "trademark" qualities you should give them, both physically as well as mentally. Dowon is dark skinned and pretty strong. That's already two characteristics, even if one could also suffice.

I remember a story from Nanzaki Iku that did a very good job for me to root for the person the mc wasn't originally in love with. But it was only two chapters

It would be interesting if Seju's family was actually responsible for Sumin's parents death. But tbh I don't think TG would go this far, because they want to wrap the Seju and Sumin part up. Also taking into account how Sumin resented Seju more after her brother gave these scars, I think she would resent Seju even more if that had happened.

I gotta admit though, when Seju remembered Sumin when she was doing it with Won, I got sad.

Was it really a surprise someone from Seju's brothers killed her mom? It was pretty obvious, since they hated Seju and her mom so much. Also being greedy af and not wanting to share their fortune. It couldn't have been Seju's dad or her brother.
The only mystery is still whether that particular brother had an affair with Seju's mom, since there was a scene of him remembering her in season 1. Some people would also theorize that he is actually her dad, but I think that's less possible.

I don't think Dowon will die either.

Season 3 with Dowon's past and her evil ex, while Dowon gets healed by dating Seju. Season 4 that ex moving on with someone new

last edited at Jul 16, 2019 6:59AM

Did I ever say I list out all the reasons for anyone to like Dowon? I only gave proofs why Seju is interested in her, all the little things have happened in the story that other folks point out, not my feelings for anything.

Also, all the possibilities that Dowon is acting/ playing games with Seju/ or even the assassin in disguise that want to kill her lol have come across my mind, BUT, these aren't related to the reasons why Seju finds her attractive at all. I hope you understand that :)

It's not like people don't already know these. We can also list why Sungji likes Sumin so much. That doesn't mean everyone will automatically like them because there are reasons. There are reasons in every story of why things happen. Going by this logic, all stories would be great and no one would have to criticize them.

Oh the same troll who got banned a couple of months ago, hi. Took you too long to make a new account.

I don't really care about the polls or whether Seju x Sumin is the most hated ship. If I cared I would be drooling over Woon and Seju already. That doesn't make my opinion less valid because the majority of the fans(in these groups who are generally teenagers) don't agree. I was just stating that some people won't even consider voting for something they know will never happen and which the author has made it clear.
Seju was the person people discussed the most but definitely a lot of the time in a negative manner. This is not exactly popular, as popular carries a positive meaning.

What Seju does with Won now, she could have done with anyone during all these years. Why is Seju showing interest in a other girl so quick, when she could have done that all these years? It just feels like "because the author said so" situation. This is why I said they're moving too fast. I don't find it believable of how quick she has trusted this new girl, when she was unable to do so for all these years.
And I'm not saying she is supposed to stay miserable and cry over Sumin for the rest of her life.

I agree that it's common when something seems to be going to a certain direction without a doubt (example Suminx Sungji and Seju x Won ending) a lot of people opposed to it just stop voicing their opinions because they know there's no point, you know? If I was on these groups, I wouldn't vote for anything

I also find noteworthy how these same facebook etc groups used to hate Seju with passion (at least more than half of the people there) but now they even voted they like her with Won ship more than Sumin and Sungji. Kinda goes to show how the taste gets influenced of what is "popular" (for a lack of better word) at the time.

Tbh aggressive Mei was a big ass. I remember that chapter that she hit Yuzu with that umbrella because she was trying to make her do some chores and I was like nope...That, combined with the fact that she was bossing around Yuzu so much.
It was a joke from the author I guess, but it wasn't funny, considering how Mei was already being a major asshole to Yuzu already. That was when I cringed and stopped liking her.

last edited at Jul 14, 2019 11:10AM

Won is an ok character. I'd say I like her better than Sungji, because so far she has more character back-story, even though she's been in the story way less than Singji.

But I can't help but feel like their development is going a bit too fast, at least for my liking.
Because it's hard to top all these chapters between Sumin and Seju, I'd like their pacing to be way slower.
They already seem like they're about to do it (I've read up to chapter 116) and it starts reminding me of the Sumin and Sungji dynamic.
Also I kinda find it weird how Won was already overstepping her boundaries right from the beginning of meeting Seju. I know it was because she made a promise to take care of Seju, but she's still an employee and it's unrealistic to think that she would suggest sleeping in Seju's room right from the first day(s). Again, I know she does it because she probably knows Seju is struggling but to me it feels a bit forced and as if it's the author speaking and trying to show they'll end up together, rather than it being organic.

last edited at Jul 14, 2019 11:03AM

Your other paragraph only seems tangentially related to anything I said, if you think the story is missing out from a lack of nsfw and kissing scenes I'll agree to disagree lol.

I don't think it's missing out because of the lack of nsfw scenes. I think it's missing out because it's a bad story telling and all these years have proven it won't get better. So I was saying that a little nsfw would actually help it, because the art is pretty good and the only thing I personally like.

By Mei not being wife material to me is that as a character she fails to make me feel things.

I fail to see how that is at all related to Mei marrying Yuzu.

Umm I never said they are related? I just used the "wife material" as a phrase/metaphor.

Sure, if you are satisfied with her character being this way for a romance story that's your taste. But there are so many others who disagree and there's no need to get defensive. I won't write down essays why I believe Mei is still not emotionally open or why she is a really bad romantic interest imo, because people have been discussing this for years. And the point of briefly mentioning this was not about Mei's emotional capabilities. I've given up on her for a while so I don't really care to get into it. We were talking about the lack of explicit scenes. Saburuta barely even draws them kissing

Summer season this year is pretty boring. I wish one day they start animating manhwas and manhuas as well, because this Japanese highschool theme is getting repetitive.

God please no, manhwas i've read have a bad habit to put a lot of dramas and manhuas are way too long. TheHighschool theme is the more simple todo because it's the age of the public wanted.

It's getting way too repetitive. And I'm not saying they should stop making these highschool animes, but they should add some more variety to it because not everyone who watches anime is a teenager or a kid.

Summer season this year is pretty boring. I wish one day they start animating manhwas and manhuas as well, because this Japanese highschool theme is getting repetitive.

citrus nsfw doujinshi when
amazes me there hasnt been one yet with how big this series already is

X2. And I feel like Saburuta would actually be able to make a good ero one. Mei's personality is not wife material imo, but it could serve well for a story like that

I go a bit off tangent here: I don't celebrate "cheating" nor do I condone it but thing is I agree with that bit you said (Mei's personality is not wife material). It's a recipe for a coming disaster to her and Yuzu's marriage. Mei's inability to emotionally connect to Yuzu--and perhaps god knows how much Mei's trying so hard about it lolz--can one day send Yuzu spending so many nights in someone else's arms drunk and naked (I'm looking at YOU, Harumin!).

Mei's personality is just fit for someone who'd rather be a hermit CEO (there are guys like that), a lone wolf Christian Grey who's not tied down to anyone or with anyone...

I didn't mean cheating though. By Mei not being wife material to me is that as a character she fails to make me feel things. She's still pretty good looking though and I sense some sexual frustration, so if the author shifted the focus from developing their "relationship" (which at this point there is nothing she can develop) to at least adding some of their sex life in between the chapters, it would benefit the story imo.

Oh, since when are people so pressed about what others ship? Like using the "you are a Seju x Sumin supporter!!!1!" as an insult?

I'd personally love to read a story about a couple like them to ends up together. This is not happening in here obviously, but it would be something different than the usual stories. Like, maybe make them heal separately and then be together. And I understand the author has already developed them to be incompatible, so I'm talking in general. Love stories don't always have to follow a certain "right" way, or always have a happy ending. We have tons of these already