^ Kind of irrelevant to this but I was immensely disappointed by the ending of Sora & Haena. I mean, it was never my favourite series, but somehow that was one of the most annoying timeskips I've ever read in yuri. (You already kinda spoiled this, but since it's not a Sora&Haena discussion I thought it better to cover it, idk)

I actually liked this one, I wasn't really expecting anything else with how it had been going so far. Though I can understand why people may find it frustrating.

Thanks for reminding me to check on Sora & Haena, it was getting on my nerves, the waiting..but I will check it now...ok I checked, I liked the end, it does make sense with the absurd amount of time Sora and readers were waiting for Haena to use her brain and go back lol

Plus there will be side stories and steamy times, or so the Twitter of the author implied, I don't speak Korean but it has images :P

I do plan to read the side stories and stuff if they get translated, but I don't like the fact that I need to rely on those to get something more of an actual ending. The timeskip reunion or whatever on the last episode not only felt out-of-nowhere, but it also didn't really add anything...? Like, okay, they live together now, but I could have easily imagined that to be the case? And Taeram became successful overseas I guess, but we basically already knew she would? We still don't even know if their friends are aware that they're dating...? Idk, it was like we spent all that time waiting for Haena's brain to function and then it just went, okayIcamebackIlikeyoutheend.Ohandwelivetogethernow. Okay. I kinda felt like I had been wasting my ink to unlock all those chapters on tapas... hahaha

(Much like many people here feel like this was a waste of time lol)

On the contrary, I really felt like the timeskip here did add to the story and I don't think it was rushed, even if the nature of their relationship is still kind of foggy. I really understand why some people were left feeling unsatisfied, but everything was resolved before the timeskip (well, except whether they got together or not lol, but I don't think that was an issue the author ever planned to resolve...) and the timeskip wasn't just used to clumsily end a story that the author didn't know how to end. And because their relationship was so loosely identified, showing that they live together is important and not something I would have otherwise ever assumed. I really liked how it went back to what connected them from the very beginning (kinda reminded me of Yoru to Umi, but that was a whole different dynamic). Though the truth is that I generally enjoy these kinds of ambiguous relationships in yuri, so it might just be me XD

last edited at Oct 2, 2021 10:02AM

^ Kind of irrelevant to this but I was immensely disappointed by the ending of Sora & Haena. I mean, it was never my favourite series, but somehow that was one of the most annoying timeskips I've ever read in yuri. (You already kinda spoiled this, but since it's not a Sora&Haena discussion I thought it better to cover it, idk)

I actually liked this one, I wasn't really expecting anything else with how it had been going so far. Though I can understand why people may find it frustrating.

^^^^^ Oh my god! I did not want to know that... I guess the artist should be excused then... But yikes

Also @none lol

Also I don't like them. I really dislike those ears.

Yeah, I'd say that was pretty obvious lol

I do agree, though, that it's silly to add animal ears just for the sake of it. I do sometimes find them to be very cute, but unless they have some purpose in the story (like, there is actually a reason for them to exist and the character being half-human –or whatever they are– is actually relevant to the plot) then it's plain unnecessary.

I will also state my dislike for the combination of human and animal ears, not only because it looks disturbing, but also because it really gives the impression that the animal ears were unneeded and were only added for extra cuteness.

I hadn't noticed when I first saw the picture, but now that I saw the four ears I find them absolutely creepy...! It's just disturbing, why would they have two pairs of ears?! (I am not making an inside joke, btw, I'm genuinely disturbed)

Though I'd say that in this particular picture the animal ears kinda do look like they could be cosplay props, so I'll just imagine that XD

last edited at Sep 30, 2021 8:12PM

This is the perfect example of a series that didn’t need there to be an explicit confirmation of romantic feelings and still works perfectly. I think people have gotten used to modern yuri of the last 5-ish years that deal with actual romantic relationships, and I’m really glad we have more of that now, but for most of its history yuri hasn’t been a one-to-one equivalent with "lesbianism." I read yuri because I like seeing stories that explore intimacy between girls, a quality of which is oftentimes its ambiguity and uncertain nature.

This series accomplished exactly what it set out to do and it did so beautifully. I don’t feel any sense of disappointment. I don’t begrudge people for wanting something specific from the manga they read, but I feel like you’re setting yourself up for disappointment. I think a lot of readers would benefit from learning to appreciate different kinds of stories.

This captures my feelings perfectly, I couldn't have said it this well myself. To me this story is not only incredibly yuri, but also incredibly well-written, and this ending fits the tone of the whole series perfectly.

In regards to whether it should be tagged as yuri though, I'm not entirely sure; because, for the purposes of the site, the application of the term yuri is limited somewhat, and it might cause new readers to have different expectations. However, they do live together, so there's that...?

What frustrates me a bit about this tagging system is that you can't really tell what type of subtext it will be, without reading the series first. Like, there is this type of story, which actually explores a relationship that is genuine and intimate, and then there's also the love-live type of subtext, which is fanservice more than anything else. I generally avoid series tagged as subtext, because I don't like the second type, but to me this is yuri, and I might have missed it if it was tagged as subtext....

last edited at Sep 30, 2021 4:42PM

Wow.
Just.

WOW.

I was not expecting that!
This was such an amazing chapter!!! It really did just keep getting better and better with each page!

I thought I'd read something light-hearted before going to sleep but this was not a good idea. I just keep going

GYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

(in my head)
It was just so exciting! I went and hyper-enthusiastically brushed my teeth, but I still couldn't vent off the excitement so I came to write this lol

I just can't. Everything about this was perfect! Such great balance of hotness and cuteness! The almost complete absence of anything related to BL was so surprising but welcome! (even though I don't actually mind it most of the time). I'm glad we didn't miss Ai's gushing, though (only the theme had shifted somewhat....) lol

Also, Misumi actually making such a grand statement... Can't wait for the next chapter!

Edit: I wanted to add that Ai's face at the bottom panel here was so great! It's kind of like she started all strong and assertive, only to realize how outrageous(?) this was and falter half-way through... This mix of determination and shyness/awkwardness was awesome!

last edited at Sep 29, 2021 9:12PM

Is it okay if I talk about the anime here? I haven't actually read the manga at all, but it feels like a waste to create a new discussion for a single post (about an anime that came out thirty years ago, no less).

Well, whatever

My biggest complaint about this series was the fact that it was very melodramatic at times.

And the animation definitely didn't help with this at all... I wasn't actually expecting much more from an anime that came out in 1991... but the *pretty obvious* attempts of the director to reduce the number of frames needed (along with the oftentimes over-the-top voice acting), actually made this funny to watch sometimes. (Though, my tendency to make fun of overly dramatic plotlines might have a little something to do with this...)

There were some strong moments too, though. I particularly liked that scene in episode 29, where Kaoru moved to abolish the Sorority —it was such an intense and exciting moment! And having Rei join in, and seeing Miya-sama's face of utter betrayal was just so fun and satisfying!
(I had to keep the sarcastic Miya-sama out of the spoiler cover).

Also related to this incident was another scene which I (surprisingly) really liked, that being the scene in episode 32, where Fukiko sees a dream, in which all of the academy's girls are coming at her, armed, while she's playing that dramatic piano piece...! And Rei pointing the barrel right at her... And hitting the final shot! Idk, I found this scene cool for some reason.

Since I'm talking about this, I should also mension how great that piano piece was. It fitted the scenes it was played in very well, but it also fitted their relationship: stormy, dramatic, and sorrowful. To which I should add, though, I felt like I never truly understood their relationship. But I'm okay with that.

I also would like to talk about Saint-Juste-sama. First things first. She was a bit nuts unstable. It's a bit ironic how for half the show I was expecting her to die, but then I had kind of forgotten about it by the time we reached the episode where she actually did die. I'd also like to complain about the direction of that scene, because I couldn't help but laugh at how she fell over the edge.... Also, I found it a bit weird how people talked, after her death, about how Rei was free, when she had been chained to her sister that whole time?! She wasn't really free; the only time she had actually been free was those few days right before her death, when she finally found the strength to live her own life.

What I found most curious about this series was how strongly it reflected the idea that girls having romantic feelings towards one anoher is normal in all girls' schools. It's interesting how none of the girls' feelings were seen as real love, even when it was explicitly mentioned that they had fallen in love. Things like Nanako thinking how she, too, would one day fall in love like Kaoru and Henmi, or Fukiko saying that Rei never got the chance to fall in love for real (though this might be an accurate statement...). It is clear that all these romantic feelings were treated as merely temporary and real love would be that towards a man.
These ideas seem so obnoxious to me that it actually kind of sparked my interest to seek more of these type of stories... lol

TL;DR: Umm...the animation/direction was sometimes funny, it was often melodramatic, the piano piece was cool, Miya-sama can go to hell and Saint-Juste-sama...! (*read in Nanako's voice*) was nuts. I mean unstable. A tiny bit.
Also, the whole show carried the idea that love between high-school girls isn't actually love, and they will all fall in love and get married with a man some day... Which I actually found intriguing, but I'll probably get back to this matter on another post in the future.

When I think about it more, the flower on Hikari's head symbolizes a brain illness. She kept her feelings to herself just so she wouldn't burden her sensei because it was worsening. She was bedridden and couldn't go to school. Sensei visited her and couldn't help but to confess anyway, and witnessed Hikari's last breath.

Those plants growing underneath those bandages Sensei was wearing were probably due to self-harm. She wanted to join Hikari so badly but waited until graduation. It was quite fishy because she knew when she would die after one of the students said she was retiring that year because Hikari didn't, which means she planned it all out. She ended her own life just to be with Hikari.

And now, they're together.

I actually didn't stop to think that everything could be a metaphor and not just fairy tale fantasy tragedy
This really opened my eyes

Murasakino always makes such thought provoking works

I got the impression the feelings Sensei felt were akin to guilt. She never really fell in love, yet Hikari loved her so much she wished herself into becoming flowers, just so Sensei would love her back. Sensei felt a strong need to join Hikari, and fulfill the girl's final desire.

But Sensei went to visit her even before finding out about her wish, didn't she?
To me her feelings read as love; or perhaps it was something between love and guilt. The way I saw it, she couldn't tell it was love, because she had been told that if she ever fell in love, she would immediately know, which wasn't the case for her.
In the end Sensei calls Hikari an idiot, presumably because she went and became a flower wishing that would earn Sensei's love. And she calls herself an idiot for following her. Hikari made that wish out of love, and the way this scene played out makes me feel that Sensei also followed her out of love.

Either way, I do believe that there was more to this story than the surface, just like You Are My Angela. What it made me think was how a person may wish to change in order to win another's love, without realising that the change is actually harmful to themselves. The interpretation of her having a fatal illness is definitely very on point, but somehow I want to tie it back to how this was her own wish and can't seem to quite grasp it. Maybe she had thought that she'd be able to get her attention if she were sick...?
Then again, perhaps there were more than one ideas put into this.

Anyway, very interesting story, and I'll definitely come back to it at some point.

last edited at Sep 25, 2021 7:59PM

i love how this story is just about how many yuri archetypes can fit into one chapter

YES! And that was honestly the main reason I found this so entertaining. I don't know if I'll really continue with this though, harem stories aren't really for me...

Regardless, I'm with the people that say that every girl will turn out not to be actually interested in her (or at least not serious about her). But if I had to root for one I'd say the roommate, just because she's weird as hell XD

Well, damn...

Although on the other hand, her turn to cry now.

I don't care about the moving out as long as they keep contact and we don't have a timeskip ending where they run into each other on the street randomly 10 years later, grab coffee and we're left with an open ended ending.

I see your grabbing a coffee timeskip and I'll raise by a '5 cm per second' barely missed each other ending.

Hey, don't just throw spoilers around like that!
Sigh... I know it came out, like, a decade ago, but I was planning on watching that....

"Of course I'd miss you, You!" Heh
...Sorry

101 not exactly like my expectation the story will advance... at this point i think this manga is not yuri or shojou ai but family drama.

What were you expecting? For them to profess their undying love for each other, or something?? Lol

Jokes aside, I don't think this manga was ever marketed as yuri... It's just that the author teases us a bit too much... XD
However, I don't think this chapter was any different in tone regarding this matter...? And I still think that Shino has a crush on Nozomi (most of the time). You will not convince me otherwise any time soon! Hahaha

^ WHAT?!
I was thinking about how this hadn't updated in a while just yesterday, I'll go check it out right now! Thanks for the info!

I don't really like mangadex tho.... Well, whatever, I'll just reread it when it's updated here XD

last edited at Sep 21, 2021 6:31PM

It does sound like prism. If it really is what you were looking for, I regret to inform you that it never ended...

But in this case it might be it really IS a no-brainer--does turning into a vampire make you an idiot like they all are? That'd be a serious drawback.

Does Ichika really have much to lose in that department though?? Lol

I like how this is one of those series where the forum discussion is arguably more entertaining and certainly had more thought put into it than the actual manga.

Lol
This is so true

Mei’s progress is undeniably slow but she has been repressed since childhood so I get it. I personally like that they’re trying to reach a new level of intimacy.

Their relationship before was sexual, lust driven, filled with doubt and secrecy. Every minute was stolen between them so steps were rushed…. Now they can take their time.
[...]
While it isn’t explicitly stated that her first Ex Fiancé raped her I think people have a right to assume that it wasn’t the first time he’s assaulted her. He was a predator with the intention for marrying her for money and prestige all while keeping a mistress on the side. To top it off, he was a teacher who molested a student on school grounds. That means he was confident that she won’t say any thing which can lead one to believe he’s conditioned her into accepting what he wants because he is to be her future husband. He certainly treated her like an object and was a scumbag so I understand why people believe he assaulted her repeatedly… It’s not been addressed explicitly and some need more than inferences in order to form a concrete conclusion.

Mei’s detached passive behavior reads very much like that of a trauma survivor so it’s understandable that people assume she’s a victim of sexual assault.

While I do believe that the forced kiss we see on the first chapter likely wouldn't have been the only one, I seriously doubt it had ever escalated to rape. And even though I agree that Mei sometimes acted in a way that would suggest that she was a rape victim in the original series, considering how this was never actually addressed, I believe it was probably unintentional on the author's side, who only wanted to portray Mei as a very repressed individual. And even if she actually had been raped (which I seriously doubt) it certainly wouldn't have been "multiple men in her life", as someone here mentioned.

**Edit:

Given the plotting and structuring of the two Citrus series, to believe that Saburouta is the kind of supremely subtle author who would base the entire portrayal of Mei Aihara’s psychology on a history of sexual trauma but never say or show anything at all about it after the very first chapter is simply preposterous.

Hahaha yes, exactly that. I don't mean to say that Saburouta is a terrible author, but let's not forget that she has a habit of introducing new characters whenever she doesn't know how to progress the plot... Doesn't really seem like the type of author that would rely on such subtle hints...
**

Regardless of all this, on the matter of Mei-bot, I feel like I'd have to reread the original series to have a better idea if she has actually regressed the way people complain about. I kind of get why so many wish that the old Mei would come back, she was a lot more fiery and that made for a more spicy story. I'm not saying that having more fluff instead of angst is a bad idea... but, honestly, what I liked about the original citrus was its unique spice –it was both fun and at times pretty hot. The sequel is very toned-down compared to that. I don't think that Mei acts like a robot, but there really are way too few scenes with the two of them actually acting like a couple at all. However, I'm not sure if she was actually any less clueless in the original...? I distinctly remember that there was a chapter where she thought she had to follow a notebook down to the last detail to have a date......

The thing is, there are countless more (and probably better written) fluffy series. Citrus never had the most well-planned plot, so I'm not really expecting any exceptional writing here. But I do feel like (at least in the recent chapters) it has been stripped of what made it fun, while getting very little in return. If Saburouta wants to write fluff she needs to do a better job.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but right now I actually wish for more moments with the others, rather than the main couple...

last edited at Sep 20, 2021 12:52PM

A generic timeskip ending would be such a waste for this series I'm not even considering it

I agree, this series has successfully avoided falling into clichés and even when it did, it had its own unique way of handling these situations. A timeskip ending would not only be utterly disappointing, but also inconsistent with what the author has shown us so far; I truly don't think they would go for something like that.

Has it really already come to a 60-40 split? Are you sure that isn't just the percentage for a specific magazine (I think we all know which one)?

No, you are right in assuming that this was the percentage of Yuri Hime. My deduction about yuri demographic as a whole being around 6:4 actually came from reading about a couple more surveys, where the ratio of female to male readers was actually even closer to 1:1, (while there also seemed to be a notable percentage of non-binary people), and the female audience itself was actually constituted mostly by non-straight women. Again, I haven't looked too much into it, but from what I gathered it seems that the demographic of yuri readers has shifted significantly from its starting point, which was, in fact, straight women.

I'm sorry for getting so off-topic here, though, I wish I had something more to add to fujoshi yuri... I just wanted to clarify my previous statement (since you accurately guessed where the 6:4 ratio came from XD)

It is common knowledge that in Japan the target audience of yuri is actually straight girls

???
Did you mean yaoi, perhaps...?

Not at all. The target demographic of GL is in truth straight girls. Yuri was an offshoot of Shoujo manga first and foremost and it has historically always had an overwhelming female audience (and obviously the heterosexual kind, as those sales numbers wouldnt work out if it was only for actual lesbians). Straight girls hold up both the GL and BL industry simultaneously basically. Only with a strong preference for one side...

Perhaps you are aware of the more recent development of "Shounen Yuri" which is aimed at boys. No doubt yuri is getting more popular with the male audience too, but the percentage is not comparable at all.

Well, yes, I am aware that yuri started with Class S stories, which would fall in the shoujo category; I just get the feeling that yuri nowadays isn't really targeted to straight girls.

From what I've read the yuri readership in more recent years seems to be about 60-40 regarding female to male audiences and not a small number are actually queer women. Which would mean that the target demographic isn't really "straight girls". Of course, I'm not that well-informed, really, that's what I've found through a very leisurely research (if I could even call it that) and how I've felt from my own experience, so I might be totally off base.

...And this wasn't even the point of the discussion at all XD

But if you've read otherwise and can share your sources I'd be glad to take a look. Finding out more about my favourite genre is always welcome!

last edited at Sep 18, 2021 8:01PM

I'm not sure why, but I love the way this artist draws their faces in profile. Like, idk, there's something really cool and unique about their lips and jawline... They're just so nice!

Also, I'm so excited we're entering this arc!
I kinda get why Toriko would be worried, honestly... Sorawo really is attached to her in a way that I can't imagine what would happen if Toriko were to disappear... She's already proven that she wouldn't think twice about going after her, so her ending up like Toriko doesn't seem too unlikely, to be honest.

It is common knowledge that in Japan the target audience of yuri is actually straight girls

???
Did you mean yaoi, perhaps...?

Regarding this topic, I don't really have much to say. Like you, I'm not interested in BL at all, so sometimes I do find it to be a bit out of place when I see women in GL obsessing over it, but I can't say it bothers me much...? And I actually enjoy Kami eshi JK to OL fujoshi, which would probably fall in the category of works that have tiny slices of yuri between tons and tons of BL talk.... lol

I wasn't sure if there was a thread for this, but if there is, I couldn't find it, so decided to create one just to say this:

Mother Ditchdeok was so cool-looking!
And just cool in general, I liked her a lot.

Ah, but perhaps I should say something about the plot too...
I really liked the chapter where Chong rejected Lady Jang's offer to become her step-daughter. It was so satisfying, even if a bit painful, to see her finally take a stand and refuse to go along with something that would most likely not end well for her.

(If there was already a forum thread for this manhwa, please do give me a link to that, so that I can move my comment there)

That creeped me out. If she doesn't know what sex is, then it's rape imo. Also she looked uncomfortable the whole time.

Yeah, I don't know if that was the author's intention, but she really does seem uncomfortable, rather than just shy or embarrassed.

It gives off the same feeling as someone tricking a child into having sex, without the child knowing what is actually going on, and simply going along with it because she feels that she can't refuse; which is something that would easily be regarded as rape.
Again, I doubt this was what the author was going for, but unfortunately that's the feeling I get.

EDIT: Heh, the title was changed. I guess too many people found it confusing...

last edited at Sep 16, 2021 5:15PM