Glad I am not the only one being reminded of Young Ladies don't play fighting games, though the comparison was not a good one for me. I hate trashtalk, did not like it there, and do not like it here.

"Hey, let's play together - LOL you suck"
That is some LTG - shit right there

All I could think when the two of them were playing was "OK, so the new girl is a really shit drummer then."
Like, if you're drumming to try to make the other instruments disappear, you're DOING IT WRONG.

I dunno, I'm not into this. I mean, ooh, they're subverting a silly old trope that has only been subverted, I dunno, ten million times already. We've long since reached the point where the subversion IS the cliche.

Also this. A band is supposed to be a harmony, not a fight for attention between the members. That can work, especially in rock, but only when all the band members are on the same page that this is what is supposed to be going on.

I am gonna check out the next chapter, mainly because I like the protag, but if the other girl stays that way, I might drop this sooner than later.

She's a kid in a school that is incredicly oppressive, it's probably the first time in her life that she's been able to just let it all out. I think the dynamic is supposed to be that Suzunomiya slowly starts taming Kurogane through their relationship & Suzunomiya goes back to being herself when they are together. Add in parts where she's like "I know the real you", and there might be an arc where the rest of the girls realise that they aren't prim ladies at all, it's a nice dynamic and I don't think it's supposed to be taken seriously, mostly just to get you to recoil in the first chapter.

We actually don't know how oppressive that school is yet, the protag is hiding her love for rock to fit in with the other girls in an effort to adjust to her new familiy. We have not been shown any signs that the school forbids rock or anything. The protag never mentions being regulated by the school in any way. For example, the protag held on to the pick not because she feared retalitation from the school for her or the owner, but because she did not want to out herself to her peers. That makes me think that it is only social pressure that the protag creates herself. Maybe her family or new father is oppressive, though I would prefer it to be something entirely in the protags mind.
But even so, lashing out at a innocent bystander -to put it dramatically - is shit behaviour, no matter how oppressed you are. So I also hope that the story goes in a "Taming of the Trashtalker" - direction.
The "not supposed to be taking it seriously" - defence only works for me for clearly absurd comedies like Leslie Nielsen or Monthy Python movies. I know why the scene is here, to set up conflict between the two leads, shock value and comedy, but the exectution is lacking IMO.

I'm a little confused why people are criticizing Kurogane for being a poor bandmate when they aren't actually, you know, in a band (yet). >

Because it is shit behaviour, to put it simply. I think I wrote that it would only be ok if they were in a band and had that established style. To go into a bit more detail: She invited someone to play a song together, which is supposed to be a collaborative effort, then did not adjust to her partner, but actively tried to overshadow her. That would be like me invinting you to a chess game, then proceed to flip the board over, throw the pieces at you and then boast of my physical prowess and call you a looser for not flipping the board before me, when you were rightly assuming that a normal game of chess was supposed to be happening.
In contrast to this, in Bocchi the Rock, the main character is seen as a bad guitarist by her bandmates at first, because she cannot adjust to the other members and play accordingly, because she was used to playing on her own.
I think another problem with this scene is that it is not exactly clear what the drum girl is actually supposed to be doing. Since we can't hear the music, the scene can be interpreted differently. What I think the author wanted to convey was that drum girl simply played "better" than the protagonist, setting her up as a foil. Maybe she was freestyling, or following the beat and notes flawlessly etc. But the scene could also be seen as her simply drowing the protag out with noise, which is very easy to do with drums. This in turn makes her shittalking even worse, since in this case she is boasting despite basically bringing a gun to a knife fight.

Glad I am not the only one being reminded of Young Ladies don't play fighting games, though the comparison was not a good one for me. I hate trashtalk, did not like it there, and do not like it here.

"Hey, let's play together - LOL you suck"
That is some LTG - shit right there

All I could think when the two of them were playing was "OK, so the new girl is a really shit drummer then."
Like, if you're drumming to try to make the other instruments disappear, you're DOING IT WRONG.

I dunno, I'm not into this. I mean, ooh, they're subverting a silly old trope that has only been subverted, I dunno, ten million times already. We've long since reached the point where the subversion IS the cliche.

Also this. A band is supposed to be a harmony, not a fight for attention between the members. That can work, especially in rock, but only when all the band members are on the same page that this is what is supposed to be going on.

I am gonna check out the next chapter, mainly because I like the protag, but if the other girl stays that way, I might drop this sooner than later.

Please feel free to tell me about all the other good things Shiho has done. Take your time, I will wait.

As I wrote a couple of months ago, Shiho is doing her best (along with Momoka and Hajime) to keep the memory of her former friend/rival, Kyou, alive, and honor her, which is nothing to scoff at. Especially considering that she formed her current band at a moment when she wanted to quit music altogether. I say this because I think that many readers underestimate the weight that her death had on Shiho. Even the fact that she chose to play the guitar (Kyou's favorite instrument) after their fight can be understood as Shiho's way of staying connected to her.

Ok, that was my fault, should have been more specific. Tell me about good things she did for other people. Her way of dealing with her grief of Kyou could be seen as entirely self-serving. But let us be charitable and say she did it as much to help Momoka and Hajime as for herself. Even then, this counts as much as the one brazilian goal in the 7:1 match against Germany: Technially a hit, but entirely too little too late.

Of course Kyou's death has had an enormous effect on Shiho (although I also agree that they were not really friends, they did not have much of a relationship before Shiho started to hate her as far as I recall), but the problem is it made her more of a bitch instead of less of one. I wrote a while back that in the flashbacks, Shiho showed signs of becoming a better person before starting Lorelei. Though that was before her whole backstory with them and Kyou turned out to be a front for her temper-trantrum about Aki anyway.

Of course, this simple pattern gets uprouted by our complex, tangled emotions, so we are all to happy to break the pattern for people we feel empathy towards. Which can be a good thing, since the Code of Hammurabi is not exactly the peak legal system of humanity, IMO. In this case, however, it just means people who don't care to assign blame for Shiho's objective faults like her enough to pattern-break, and the rest do not. Nothing all too complicated or surprising.

We're closer to something, somewhat agreeable I guess but not really there. For example, your characterization of "not caring to assign blame for Shiho's faults" is a bit hollow (unless you're just grouping every person who disagrees with you into the same pot of beliefs). I'm not sure where I've not assigned her blame or fault for something? Not fixating on blame is not disregarding culpability. Regardless, I'm not surprised by reactions, they've been mostly predictable, for better or worse. It's just necessary to mention when things become a bit messy and unproductive.

Well, my point of contention is that Shiho is not blamed for her behaviour within the story. So maybe a better way of putting it would be "not caring about Shiho being blamed by/within the story", instead of not assigning blame yourself. If we agree that Shiho has faults and what these are, and you simply prefer the resolution and don't care about these faults being adressed or Shiho suffering external consequences, while I do, that is a simple matter of preference/priorities. Which is absolutely fine. If you allow me to be flippant for a moment: It is ok to like bad writing.

To extend an olive branch: I am aware that my reaction to Shiho is an emotional one, though the writing does not do it any favors either. I simply watched too much stuff like RE:Creators and IBO S2 and really hate it in stories when antagonistic characters get away scot-free with the shit they pulled. You are free to call my dislike of Karma-Houdinis "fixating on blame", of course.

How was Aki's love unhealthy? I don't think it has ever affected her, or anyone else, negatively. It was unrequited, but she took it like a champ. She accepted that Yori did not love her back, stayed friends and did her best to not let her love influence her behaviour, until she was ready to move on. I would say that is a pretty much textbook how to do case.

Unhealthy in the sense that it was something she was struggling to get over, struggling to understand her feelings with this new change. Shiho's appearance came at a perfect or (maybe I should say) "useful" time for Aki. It gave Aki something to fixate on and prioritize over dealing with her lose of Yori. Yes, Aki wasn't self sabotaging or acting in a destructive way but she verbalized her discomfort and uncertainty about her future and place on a couple occasions. Shiho came right after Aki lost Yori. Her introduction directly cut into the beginnings of Aki's road to accepting her loss. We don't really know if things would have become worse over time but we do know that Aki was still transitioning then, and was still unsure of where she could stand. Through these events with Shiho, Aki could right what she felt was an old wrong, get her mind off her heartache with Yori but most importantly, recontextualize her relationship with Yori and Hime (which she does quite a bit during this arc and talks about).

Gonna have to hard disagree here. Struggle in and of itself is not only not unhealthy, is is a necessary component for humans to stay mentally healthy. Sounds a bit shitty, but I did not design the way we operate. Humans need struggle in our life, we need adversity, problems to solve and challenge to grow from. This has also been observed in animals, see the Universe 25 - study (a warning for the uninitiated - not a light read). The way we react to struggle can and often is unhealthy, but just struggling with something can also be a positive sign of growth.

Now, within the story it is correct that Shiho is what triggered the change in Aki, but doubt it was necessary. IMO, Aki would have overcome it on her own or through a different trigger, albeit later in life, maybe after graduating. I just hate the execution of it all, with Aki showing more regret than Shiho ever did.

Also, it seems that people keep saying they are upset with this chapter because Aki is the one who apologized and Shiho didn't... but I didn't take any of what Aki said as an apology. She does kinda indirectly say she was wrong, so maybe people consider that an apology? To me, she just said they were both misunderstanding, or "didn't know who they really were" so now that they do know, now that the air is cleared, she would like to start over. And I think that's great. I think that's awesome writing.

Nice, I was waiting for your response, honestly. It's turned into a bit of a mess. And agreed about what Aki's doing here. But I already mentioned the fixation with blame, external punishment and this tiresome (and sometimes oddly flippant) Aki vs. Shiho thing. They both feel guilty for different things, for sure and by the nature of her character much of Shiho's "punishment" is internal and self inflicted. What's important is that Aki (with some help) succeeds in saving Shiho from her unhealthy desire for self destructive isolation (as well as her unhealthy relationship to music that connects to her insecurities) and while doing so Aki is saved/saves herself, inadvertently through Shiho's antics, from her unhealthy unrequited love. I don't know that she would have moved on from her crush had it not been for these very trying and emotional events that were strong enough to pull her attention for such a long period of time. They both reset their relationship to each other but also within themselves so it'll be interesting to see how they are after everything. I imagine they'll have more interactions in the future to flesh their new status out and talk more. They only separated a couple months ago so it's not like it's been years. Everything doesn't need to be said all at once.

How was Aki's love unhealthy? I don't think it has ever affected her, or anyone else, negatively. It was unrequited, but she took it like a champ. She accepted that Yori did not love her back, stayed friends and did her best to not let her love influence her behaviour, until she was ready to move on. I would say that is a pretty much textbook how to do case.

Also the "fixation on blame and external punishment" is simply how the human mind works. We humans are BIG on pattern recognition, and that is part of the reason we abhor unfairness. "If you do good, good things should happen to you" and "If you do bad, bad things should happen to you" is a very simple pattern we understand and prefer since it helps living in a group, and we are social animals. That is why there are so many stories where the good guy wins in the end, because anything else, while being more realistic, just feels wrong.

Of course, this simple pattern gets uprouted by our complex, tangled emotions, so we are all to happy to break the pattern for people we feel empathy towards. Which can be a good thing, since the Code of Hammurabi is not exactly the peak legal system of humanity, IMO. In this case, however, it just means people who don't care to assign blame for Shiho's objective faults like her enough to pattern-break, and the rest do not. Nothing all too complicated or surprising.

i feel like the majority of shiho haters are huge examples of people criticizing things they don’t understand. some of them have some sense and reason behind their hate, but others just seem to act like all shiho has done is hurt people. which isn’t true at all.
shiho has brought people together, if she hadn’t quit the band there’s a big chance himari and yori would’ve never met. people seem to only focus on the things she’s done wrong, and seem to forget the good things she’s done.
she’s a character that has reasons to be criticized, but all characters do. and don’t get me wrong, she has made mistakes.
imo she’s one of the best written characters in this manga. she clearly has abandonment issues, a friend of hers died, she’s been thrown away by many bands before. she’s lost so much, taken so many hits, she’s realistic.
and there’s 100% a reason why she seems so obsessed with being the best. again, she’s lost so much, ofc there’s something she wants to “win” or hold on to. and that’s music.
i don’t think aki and shiho would be a toxic relationship. aki seems to understand shiho much more than the others… besides himari. she’s one of the only people who’s taken the time to form some kind of relationship with shiho, or some kind of understanding of with her, even if it had its problems. (i wish some fans would try this too…)
anyway, there’s my little rant.

Ok, so first of all, Shiho was just leaving the band. You can't credit her for bringing people together, she had no influence in getting Yori to join, and she certainly never wanted that. That is not a good thing she has done, since she has done nothing in that regard.

Please feel free to tell me about all the other good things Shiho has done. Take your time, I will wait.

As far as I remember the flashbacks, most of the hits she takes were self-inflicted, like she got thrown out of her bands for being to perfectionistic and confrontational.

But since this is a sentiment that comes up again and again: Very little serious critique comes from a place of hate for Shiho, she is a fictional character, after all. Most people either dislike the change of direction and focus she represents for the manga, or find her behaviour unfitting and immersion-breaking.

For example, to make my issue with her clear: I do not hate her because of her faults, instead the fact that noone in the story acknowledges these faults, and she faces no negative repercussions for it and gets rewarded in the end, breaks my immersion and makes me like the story less. While Shiho in a vakuum is a realistic character (horrible people exist), the way everyone in the story reacts to her makes no sense, and I don't like it if stuff makes no sense.

Okay, but I mean aki does deserve better.

And at the same time. Shiho did blackmail, gaslight, extort and tantrum her way to a gf

when tf did she blackmail or gaslight

A lot of people seem to forget that Shiho made Himawari a part of the battle of the bands bet, with her staying as their manager, mainly to get at Yori. And since that is not the first time she used Himawari against Yori, you could call that blackmail. She also did give Aki a bullshit reason for leaving the band, telling Aki it is her fault because they are not good enough as a band, which could be seen as gaslighting.

And lastly, emotions can explain behaviour, but never excuse it.

last edited at Jul 23, 2023 7:18AM

For the multiple people that wrote that this story is not even about blame and responsibility as concepts... we know, that is what we are critizing. We are saying the story SHOULD be about that, or at least incorporate this concept.

Not even the two or three pages where Kyou "appeared" in this chapter made you realize the weight of guilt Shiho has been carrying with her all this time?

Oh, it has been made quite clear that Shiho always felt conflicted about her actions, that much was obvious. However, this never stops her from being a raging bitch. Also, she does not forgive Aki, really. The reason she broke of with Aki was her loving Yori. She only accepted Aki back after she tells her this is no longer the case and she is ready for a new start. And even then, in the moment that Aki tells her that this obstacle is gone, she needs the realization of lost chances in form of the former friend she left for a bullshit reason too to even allow herself to give Aki a chance, the hindrance being that Aki took to long to change for her.

Her guilt does not make Shiho a better person. Feeling guilt for something bad you done is normal, not something to be praised. There is a reason we call people with no remorse psychopaths. And since her guilt also does not lead to any meaningful change, it helps very little with my main topic of contention, which very simplified could be broken down to: "Will SOMEbody in the story PLEASE realize what a bitch Shiho is?" Just some very basic cause and effect, some consequenses for her actions, instead of rewards.

For the multiple people that wrote that this story is not even about blame and responsibility as concepts... we know, that is what we are critizing. We are saying the story SHOULD be about that, or at least incorporate this concept. Fact is, there is unadressed blame to go around due to the actions and behaviours taken so far, and blame that is unfairly assigned by the story that is not warranted. The story's inability or unwillingness to adress that is leading to a disconnect that leads many to be dissatisfied with this arc, among other reasons.

The more I think about it, it does seem that Shiho has something like an incel mindset. She had feelings for Aki. Aki was treating her normally, and Shiho felt that she was entitled to more.

All Shiho asked was not to be forced to remain next to the girl that didn't love her back.

This is patently false—Shiho didn’t ask anything of Aki, because she never communicated anything at all except that she was quitting the band and didn’t want to be around them anymore.

She was in the wrong for trying to force Shiho into a friendship that she didn't want and hurt her.

And I agree with the author that Aki was wrong, because I did the same when I was a teenager and I regret it.

Blastaar claiming that this is a reversal of responsibility is, quite frankly, shocking.

How many times does it have to be said that Aki had no way of knowing that she “hurt” Shiho because Shiho never told her anything about it.

This is all straight-up victim-blaming. Aki isn’t a mind-reader, so her so-called “responsibility” is entirely imaginary.

To add to that, Shiho's refusal to communicate straight up hurt Aki. Aki was not trying to "force" Shiho into anything, she was understandably hurt from Shiho just walking out of her life and wanted to know why, that is not her fault. Trying to blame Aki only makes sense if there had been some kind of talk between them beforehand where Shiho clearly stated her issues (and even then it would be shaky at best).

Apart from that, Shiho did not just solemny distance herself, she went out of her way to antagonize Yori (which is incredibly petty) and use Himawari for it. She did plenty wrong, and from her own expressions and dialogue, was extremely bitter about the whole thing, lashing out at everyone, even people not involved in the slightest. That is were the pretty accurate Incel comparisons come from.

Victim-blaming ? Victim of what ? Of someone not wanting to be her friend ? If someone says they don't want to be friend to you, they are required to pour out their personal feelings first, otherwise you have a right to harass them every day to come back to you ? That's exactly the incel mindset icekatze was talking about.

Shiho made her wish to remain away from Aki clear, unequivocally and repeatedly. She didn't state her reason and didn't have any obligation to - not being friends with Aki, because she didn't want to be, was well within her rights.

And obviously, stating her reasons would just have made things worse for Aki - she'd have felt responsible for Shiho leaving and pressured to do something about it, at a time when she still had strong feelings for Yori.

Not just "not wanting to be her friend", aprubtly and without reason ending an existing friendship, which is way worse. Being friends for a longer time, you are damn well obligated to tell people why you don't want to be friends anymore. Not doing so risks emotionally hurting them and is near abusive.

And don't try to pass this off as a noble sacrifice Shiho is doing to protect Aki, her dialogue is even color-coded in this latest chapter to show she still resented Aki for what happened.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 6:39PM

And for their new relationship, since the underlying issues that lead Shiho to break it off in the first place have never been resolved, or even addressed for that matter, I give them a year at most.

Not sure what you mean by this but I think they'll be fine--maybe a little bumpy. They were fine before the unrequited crushes, they'll likely be fine now. Hopefully we get to see some of how they try and work things out in the future.

"They were fine until the first problem arose, which caused Shiho to rip them apart. But Aki changed to give Shiho what she wants after all, so they likely be fine now."
Until the next time Shiho wants something Aki cannot give or does not know about. Since Shiho did not change, I see no reason to assume it is gonna go differently the next time.

No one said anything about giving any prizes to this manga. All they did was make comment about the popularity of the characters.

it's the typical kind of response, so not that surprising and not that big of a deal. What else can be said when something is unquestionably popular but they don't like it? I do that sometimes too before I catch myself as a writer. What I find interesting though is how opinions can shift from forums like these to other places, not even just countries. That's why i responded to someone who again mentioned the completely different reception to this arc in other spaces. It's still hard to gauge even here though because without some sort of like button, those who would rather not get involved in "discourse" like this don't get to have their "votes" cast. Kind of skews perceptions.

What else can be said? The thing I have said from the beginning, that I do not care about popularity since I am talking about quality and craftsmanship, and I am not sure why it was even brought up as a response.

If you go back a bit in the forum, you will find discussions of quality regarding this manga, with SrNevik making the argument that a large amount of readers liking it is a quality the manga has which makes it well-crafted, at least as far as I understood their viewpoint.

Wow that's not really what I said but that's a very old thing by now.

Then what, pray tell, did you say? I honestly don't get it. What other argument COULD be made by bringing up popularity in response to arguments about quality and craftsmanship?

If it is about what is considered to be quality and good craftsmanship differs in different cultures etc, A) I only believe that to a certain extent, and B) it would be utterly irrevelant to bring up, since that would be an argument about priorities. If the japanese audience does not care about a fault, that does not make the fault suddenly go away.

I think it's because of the cultural difference, but in our country, no one hates Shiho like this. Everyone wants Shiho to be happy with Aki. So this chapter (43) is one of the most appreciated chapters in the whole series

Yeah I've tried to discuss that reality before but to middling effect. Yeah they're very popular. There's a reason they've had the focus for so long.

Time to give Twilight and Fifty Shades the literature nobel price then, given how popular and successful those were.

No one said anything about giving any prizes to this manga. All they did was make comment about the popularity of the characters.

If you go back a bit in the forum, you will find discussions of quality regarding this manga, with SrNevik making the argument that a large amount of readers liking it is a quality the manga has which makes it well-crafted, at least as far as I understood their viewpoint. That was what "I've tried to discuss that reality before but to middling effect" was referring to, and what I was referencing, since I still don't understand how that argument is any different from "people like it so it's good".

I think it's because of the cultural difference, but in our country, no one hates Shiho like this. Everyone wants Shiho to be happy with Aki. So this chapter (43) is one of the most appreciated chapters in the whole series

Yeah I've tried to discuss that reality before but to middling effect. Yeah they're very popular. There's a reason they've had the focus for so long.

Time to give Twilight and Fifty Shades the literature nobel price then, given how popular and successful those were.

I think it's because of the cultural difference, but in our country, no one hates Shiho like this. Everyone wants Shiho to be happy with Aki. So this chapter (43) is one of the most appreciated chapters in the whole series

Yeah I've tried to discuss that reality before but to middling effect. Yeah they're very popular. There's a reason they've had the focus for so long.

My take on this chapter:

I liked this resolution. They're starting over and now have the ability to build a romance if they want to over time, since Aki's realized that she no longer is hung up on her past romance and is therefore open to a new one (she realized this a couple chapters ago). Aki's deciding to be open to a relationship again with someone she never wanted to lose in the first place and whatever form that winds up taking over time, is whatever. It'll likely end up romantic though, especially since Shiho still likes her and the only real impediment back then had been Aki's old crush.

This is how I wanted it to end, not really a confession of love but a rekindling of something unnecessarily lost. They both apologized but most importantly, finally got all their feelings and emotions out. Now they're free to work together and start a new relationship again, free of unrequited loves and unnecessary pressures

They "both" apologized? Last I checked, Aki apologized, and Shiho just called her an idiot for taking too long to give her what she wants. This of course ignores the fact that the only party apologizing is the only one who did nothing wrong, but different discussion I guess.

And for their new relationship, since the underlying issues that lead Shiho to break it off in the first place have never been resolved, or even adressed for that matter, I give them a year at most.

^it was only for the psp remake of Persona 3, called Persona 3 Portable, or P3P for short. In that version of the game, you can choose whether to play as a female or male.
The new remake of P3 they are developing right now will only have the male protag, but P3P has been rereleased on steam not long ago.

What about that fortuneteller/teacher though? We had a lot of scenes foreshadowing that she had some kind of bad intentions, and that got dropped without even a mention at the end.
I mean I guess you could say she did it to test them or strengthen their relationship, but after her saying stuff like "a bond is most beautiful when it breaks", it really seems like she was supposed to play an antagonistic role.

I want to know what happened with the rival and the golem girl. They foreshadowed that she had real feelings despite not being a living being and that the other witch was starting to have real feelings for her too.

True, I forgot that we did not get a resolution for this plotthread as well. Don't get me wrong, I like the ending we got, but it feels rushed. Looks like sadly, this manga shares the fate of many other yuri series and got axed.

What about that fortuneteller/teacher though? We had a lot of scenes foreshadowing that she had some kind of bad intentions, and that got dropped without even a mention at the end.
I mean I guess you could say she did it to test them or strengthen their relationship, but after her saying stuff like "a bond is most beautiful when it breaks", it really seems like she was supposed to play an antagonistic role.

^just a reminder that V Gundam is a thing, which makes IBO look like an after-school special on child work in comparison. I would advise anyone who hopes for Suletta and Miorine to end up happy together to prepare thyne anus.

Happy endings are fine, but does Shiho deserve to be happy after everything she’s done? She’s evil, she’s cruel, she’s a monster! She is the worst person in the story by a mile and her having a happy ending with Aki, ESPECIALLY after how she has treated Aki and the people Aki cares about, she really does not deserve to be happy

Y'all need to chill and remember what kind of story we're in here.
It's not like Shiho assaulted, blackmailed or murdered someone. She was really just being bitch on purpose to distance herself from her former friends, antagonizing them bc "i can't be around her anymore and that'll be easier if she hates me". Her reactions are out of proportion compared to the vibe of the rest of the cast but that's it.

It's literally just a schoolyard argument between friends. Nobody here is evil or a monster or irredeemible. Sheesh.

I completey agree with you. It is just that the treatment Shiho gets from the story and in the story and (and in this forum from some select people) does not match her actions and character, and this incongruity makes her something far more worse for readers than evil: It makes her annoying. Objectively, she is not evil and is shown to suffer under her own actions as well, but after all this time in the story, I understand why people react in a overblown way to her, and especially to people who seem to like her unquestionably, the same frustrating way she is treated by the story.

--- WARNING --- WARNING --- WARNING ---

Brace for Impact!

I should be happy that it looks like SS Girls are gonna win the competition AT LEAST, but this looks like a full-on confession. Please don't. At this point, I could accept "let's be friends again", as long as Aki adresses Shiho's faults and demands her to be less of a shithead. Though there is a higher chance of world peace tomorrow than that happening.

I await the next chapter the same way a passenger on a currently crashing plane awaits the landing.

EDIT: A passing thought: How effing amazing would it be if after that last panel with Aki's expression, the last song is a Babymetal - style thrash song about how much Shiho sucks and that the bint can get bent? Dear God, I would tell my future kids that they could heal cancer and their award ceremony would still be only the second-best moment of my life.

last edited at May 27, 2023 6:08AM

You know, I have heard from reliable sources that you can just... you know, like BDSM, without having a tragic past or trauma.
That reminds me of that BDSM-Series from Mira where the conflict was that one of the girls was into BDSM, and was unsure wether her romantic interest was too. The fact that she liked BDSM was just that, a fact. Not something born from a specific bad experience or moment in her life, she just liked it.. Guess I am gonna reread that.

That brings me to another point of critique of the series, though. Why would Aki even want for Shiho to be part of her life? We see that she does, but we do not really know why. We simply did not see their relationship, so we did not have a chance to get attached. The whole drama relies on the peril that their relationship is in, but we as readers have not been shown how that relationship even was, so it is hard to get invested. Structurally, we needed a flashback showing how great a time Shiho and Aki had to really care about the threat of it ending for good. All we got was the confirmation that Shiho was petty and salty from seemingly day one.

We might get a flashback of their relationship from Aki’s POV. Maybe before the actual performance/during that can highlight special moments.

Aki’s whole “I’m over Yori” feels really abrupt so the whole thing with Shiho might not end just with the performance? Even Shiho’s chapter with how she fell for Aki was just a quick montage so a more in depth chapter might be shown. Maybe Vol 8 will cover Aki’s journey to getting over her first love/reconciling with Shiho whether it’s platonic or romantic.

Though I’d like to get a little break from their drama and touch base with the mains, see how everything is affecting them.

Possible, but at this point, entirely too late. We have spend way too much time on Aki and Shiho already without the reader having a chance to care about their relationship beyond surface-level shipping, if even that.

Don’t think Shiho will accept Aki’s word… Will Aki have to prove herself?

Prove herself? Why? Aki has done literally nothing wrong. That would be like me having to "prove myself" to the thief that ransacked my appartment so he will deign himself to rob me again.

I never said Aki did anything wrong. I mean that if Aki wants Shiho to be in her life she may have to prove that she’s over Yori since Shiho’s pride won’t let her stay beside pining Aki.

Likening Shiho’s immature actions to a criminal isn’t really on the same level but to each their own.

I know. Hyperbole is an important tool to help clearly communicate the point of metaphors and hypotheticals.

That brings me to another point of critique of the series, though. Why would Aki even want for Shiho to be part of her life? We see that she does, but we do not really know why. We simply did not see their relationship, so we did not have a chance to get attached. The whole drama relies on the peril that their relationship is in, but we as readers have not been shown how that relationship even was, so it is hard to get invested. Structurally, we needed a flashback showing how great a time Shiho and Aki had to really care about the threat of it ending for good. All we got was the confirmation that Shiho was petty and salty from seemingly day one.

I’m also wondering what’s left for our true mains? What other obstacles are in store for them and all the other girls?

The only thing left unresolved is Aki and Shiho's relationship (plus Shiho's internal insecurities), so I'm pretty sure that fixing their bond (and helping Shiho to be happy) is this manga's endgame.

I just find it amusing that a story which primary focus was low-brow comedy, T&A and fights got this specific topic so much more right than a drama series with focus on character relationships.

Shiho told Aki the truth just two chapters ago, so let's wait a little longer before jumping to conclusions, shall we? I mean, I don't think it would make sense from a narrative point nor it would be satisfying to the readers if she doesn't come to terms with why some of her actions were wrong (it's not like she doesn't know that, but her defense mechanisms have always been stronger until now), show accountability for them, apologize to everyone and finally overcome all her inner conflicts. Otherwise, a potential relationship with Aki would still be built on uncertainty and insecurities, almost certainly leading to more problems.

Dude, your word in God's ear, but I remember being on this very thread when the reason why Shiho was being antagonistic was still being discussed, and the theory that she was in love with Aki was widely seen as not very probable due to it being obvious, cliché and not a proportionate reaction. Oh, those halcyon days... Point is, I am not getting my hopes up. I would be happy to be proven wrong though.

EDIT: Oh wow, I nearly overlooked that. Not "some of her actions were wrong". All. All of them were wrong. Shiho did not do a single correct thing aside from breathing in oxygen.

Oh wait, that is not true. When she was reprimanded by her band member for pressuring Hima, she relented at the time. She of course did not learn a single thing from that, but baby steps. Let the records show that Shiho did one thing right. For like five seconds top, but still.

last edited at Apr 23, 2023 11:25PM

Don’t think Shiho will accept Aki’s word… Will Aki have to prove herself?

Prove herself? Why? Aki has done literally nothing wrong. That would be like me having to "prove myself" to the thief that ransacked my appartment so he will deign himself to rob me again.

This whole mess makes me think back very warmly to RisingXRydeen. That was an enjoyable, stupid and silly little romp about a boy which superpower it was to produce lube from his body. Yes, the story was as mature as this concept sounds, but funnily enough, it nailed this whole debacle.

The boy has a rival that is in love with him for a long time, but never told him. She abandoned him years prior and is still antagonistic towards him because he does not love her, which leads to a fight between them. Using her OP lightning powers, she is electrocuting him, while finally breaking down, yelling her feelings at him and berating him for not realizing.

Which leads to HIM yelling at HER for being stupid, he is not a mind reader and it is unreasonable for her to blame and expect him to just notice her feelings on his own. (In case you are wondering, yes, while still being electrocuted. His lube turns out to have insulating properties, which actually ties neatly into the themes of the story, since he is always coming up with ways to use his stupid powers in clever ways to win fights, and his whole reason for developing superpowers was chasing after her in the first place.)

I just find it amusing that a story which primary focus was low-brow comedy, T&A and fights got this specific topic so much more right than a drama series with focus on character relationships.

Calling it now—10 bucks says that whoever finds Shiho in her Den of Mope says a version of, “I knew I’d find you here.”

It would only be slightly more risky to bet against the sun rising in the morning, so no, not taking that bet.

I am however willing to bet on the somewhat less, but still depressingly propable course of events that the manga will never acknowledge that Shiho hurt Aki as well. Or at least, that this will not be discussed or referenced in any way by the characters within the story. Having a friend distance from you all of a sudden and without reason can really hurt, even lead to feelings of inadequacy and self-doubt. And all we got when the two were confroted was Shiho mocking Aki for staying friends with Yori, bitter as if Aki's love was something she was rightfully owed by virtue of being her friend, and Aki was in the wrong for "denying" it. She even tells Aki she is pretending to be friends with Yori, like it is not possible to stay friends if you are not loved back.

And to reference the ongoing discussion in this thread: This has nothing to do with Shiho as a character. All joking aside, she might make a great villain in a very different story, Shakespearian even. But the fact that her negative qualities and actions (like it was said before on here, has she done even one thing in the entire story that was not selfish?) are not recognized by the story as such is grating, especially after such a long time. Himawari got way more blowback for her actions than Shiho ever did, I mean come on.