Forum › Posts by Red K.

joined Nov 22, 2019

text

W H A T

"haven't you been with our company for ten years? Surely someone's caught tour eye in that time!"

multiple someone's, in fact. And quite a few she's slept with.

This implies that Hiroko has slept with women she's found attractive in the workplace before...SO THEN WHAT THE FUCK IS THE POINT OF THIS MANGA

This one offhand comment single handedly destroys the entire backbone of the story. If Hiroko is such a womanizer and jumps at the chance to sleep with a cute girl, WHY HAS SHE BEEN AVOIDING AYAKA SO DAMN MUCH!?

joined Nov 22, 2019

I'm genuinely in love with this story. It's got so much narrative and world-building. The dynamic of the dad spying on his daughters dates could be a manga in itself, and yet there's also this whole gritty Cia level operation happening in the background that we haven't even fully gotten into yet?

But at the same time, it dosen't feel like the story is too crowded. The family dynamic and hitman operation stuff both give eachother the space they need to breathe, while also being just the right amount of interconnected to compliment eachother delightfully.

Generally one of the best narratives I've read in a while, even outside of yuri manga.

joined Nov 22, 2019

I updated my spoiler comment to label which spoiler is the one where you get to learn about Hiroko's past, just in case people only want to see that one.

joined Nov 22, 2019

LOL

I predict that there will be nothing left of Dynasty Scans but a smoking crater on the server room floor after this thread goes nuclear halfway through volume 2.

Indeed. The characters are such trainrecks that I can just feel all the rabid future commenters nashing at their leashes to tear their stupid decisions apart.

Despite having already read this, I'm incredibly excited for new chapter releases just to see the absolute battle ground it will inevitably cause in the forums.

last edited at May 13, 2023 6:12PM

joined Nov 22, 2019

Just to give people a little piece of mind

I found the raws, and while I haven't read them because I am poor, from the thumbnails it seems like priest dad surives. Here's the link to see yourself https://comic-days.com/episode/3269632237268449361

joined Nov 22, 2019

Hey guys, just so you know, I was interested in this series a couple months ago and bought the raws up to volume 2 (volume 3 just released) and if you're annoyed by Hiroko's complete inability to understand the words "I'm in love with you," I suggest you either drop this now or wait for all the chapters to release so you can read it all in one shot, because it just gets so, so much worse.

Now I'm fascinated. I'm having a hard time conceiving of an inability to understand that's "much, much worse" than what we've already seen.

Here's the basic rundown of major events up to the end of volume 2 for people who really want to know

Ayaka and Hiroko end up sharing a hotel room in a reservation mix up while both out on a work trip. Ayaka gets super touchy feeling in a towl trying to seduce Hiroko, but she just keeps dodging her advances until night time. They both can't sleep so Hiroko suggests they share a bottle of wine. Ayaka confesses again, and Hiroko asks her if she's being serious, but Ayaka fell asleep before she could answer.

After a work party, Hiroko learns that Ayaka is not in love with Yuuya and wonders if Ayaka may be gay before quickly dismissing the thought. Also, Risa confesses that she's fallen in love with Ayaka, but understands she is in love with Hiroko and promises to support her

Ayaka and Risa are in Ayaka's room and want to try out a lesbian bar to get advice on lesbian love troubles. The bar they find happens to be Hiroko's bar, where Risa learns that Hiroko is gay. Hiroko shows up at the bar and sees Ayaka and she rushes her out where Ayaka tells Hiroko she's a lesbian

End volume One

While taking home Ayaka in a taxi, Hiroko thinks that it would be nice if Ayaka were in love with her, now that Hiroko knows Ayaka is gay, before quickly dismissing the idea as nothing but a fantasy

During work, Ayaka confronts Hiroko and asks if she's a lesbian. Hiroko say she just go's to the bar because she hit it off with the customers and had no idea what kind of bar it was. At the bar, Hiroko says that she panicked and lied because she really dosen't want to be found out at the company

Later, Risa confronts Hiroko and says she knows Hirko is gay and that she cares about Ayaka so Hiroko needs to stop ignoring her feelings. This is the point when Hiroko realizes that Ayaka is in love with her. But trust me, it's not over yet. That would be too simple

Ayaka works up the courage and confesses again in the middle of the office. And Hiroko tells her she's happy Ayaka likes her, but that she can't give her happiness, and that maybe somebody else can

Ayaka is super sad but Risa tells Ayaka that she still loves her and asks her if she could give her a shot. Ayaka agrees and the two date for what seems like a couple of months (it's not specified) before Risa tries kissing Ayaka. But Ayaka panics and pushes Risa before running away and saying she can't do it anymore

We then find out the reason Hiroko is so against work relationships to the point of self sabotage, and its the spoiler below.

She had a senpai at work she had a crush on, but once rumors started spreading about them her senpai resigned to protect Hiroko's reputation.

Continuing with events

Risa talks to Hiroko again and says that things with her and Ayaka didn't work out and the Ayaka still isn't over her

Risa and Ayaka make up as friends and go to the bar together, where the owner tells them about Hiroko's past. Risa asks her why she told them, and she says that maybe they can change Hiroko

This gives Ayaka the courage to confess again to Hiroko in the middle of the office

End of volume 2

last edited at May 15, 2023 5:20AM

joined Nov 22, 2019

The fact that Melissa wore a giant white witch hat to her own wedding is hilarious.

joined Nov 22, 2019

Hey guys, just so you know, I was interested in this series a couple months ago and bought the raws up to volume 2 (volume 3 just released) and if you're annoyed by Hiroko's complete inability to understand the words "I'm in love with you," I suggest you either drop this now or wait for all the chapters to release so you can read it all in one shot, because it just gets so, so much worse.

last edited at May 12, 2023 3:45PM

joined Nov 22, 2019

i cant say im quite fond of these recent developments as it requires me to tolerate a character that the story itself trashed and then tries to elaborate on with extremely poor reasoning that is way too absurd to take seriously causing one to wonder how this isnt a main genre comedy series with its joke of a plot.

and for the record a cheater isnt a flawed character since cheating isnt a flaw its a betrayal which is quite the serious offense in any story worth writing about but somehow this story is actively choosing to treat it as some kind of youthful misadventure which makes it seem like a flaw instead of the evil act it should otherwise be seen as.

Totally this. In the beginning of the story, we're introduced to the mc's crush, and her reaction to being cheated on. So obviously, this is the character we're supposed to sympathize with, right? Then, when the cheater is introduced, he's just as scummy as she described him as. When we see her tell him she's leaving, you get the sense of her overcoming a hurdle in her life and moving on to a new chapter, possibly with the mc. So boyfriend was just meant to represent the negativity of the previous chapter of her life, right? And her show of moving on from that means that now Baba as a character isn't needed anymore, right? Except no, because Baba bitch boy stuck around, with no more purpose as a character except to confuse the reader and make them uncomfortable.

joined Nov 22, 2019

"Well if they truly are like that then I should support them"
It's good to know that the Mistress is so supportive of her maids

And incest apparently

joined Nov 22, 2019

This arc has been...longer than it should be.

Meh, it probably just feels that way cause we're reading it one chapter at a time. It's only been 5 ch. so far and seems to be wrapping up, so out of the 50 so ch. out so far, and the assumed many more to come, it's not that bad

last edited at Apr 17, 2023 10:49AM

joined Nov 22, 2019

This is far from the first manga series to discover that it can extend, or even overturn, its initial premises by turning its focus toward an emotional trainwreck of a side character who proves popular with audiences, either because that character's problems are "relatable" or because some segment of the audience likes to watch train wrecks, or both.

And it's even often the case that readers who preferred the first part of the story keep reading it, maybe because they hope the story will right itself, or because they value the ongoing glimpses of the parts that they previously liked, or maybe, like readers who get invested in a story often do, they just want to find out what happens.

Your reply is definitely the one that has resonated with me. I feel sold to more than anything. Whisper You a Love song is no longer a story that the author wants to tell, but a story that the author thinks the readers want, and since they can't satisfy everyone, they are bound to leave people behind.

At a certain point, the writing feels immature. It's like the author learned that conflict, unrequited feelings, and emotional turmoil in a story can make it popular, so they're min maxing all those by shoving them into the story and dragging them out, because obviously drama sells no matter the quality of the writing, right?

This manga feels like those youtube content farms, where a company broke the algorithm and found a way to produce the cheapest, most brain-dead, lifeless content on the app, but still manage to rake in hundreds of millions of views, because the majority of people consuming media just want to be entertained, and don't care about quality. And while that means giving up your integrity as an artist, at the end of the day, selling to the majority always means more money.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if, after this Shiho drama is wrung dry, one of the characters inexplicably die, and then it turns into a gritty mystery drama for another 20 chapters or something.

last edited at Mar 19, 2023 4:03PM

Red K.
School Zone discussion 19 Mar 15:39
joined Nov 22, 2019

Um, does anyone have a character/relationship chart...? It's kind of hard for me to follow this story when the updates are far apart and every chapter features a different character.

joined Nov 22, 2019

Shipping Kosuzume-sensei and her editor is wrong. :-(

hahahaha I will try not to.....

I was also oddly confused by my feelings in that afterward.

No, Kosuzume-san, don't do it!
You can't dump your rich and generous husband for some lady editor!
Remember he's the father of your children!

Has Kosuzume ever mentioned her husband before? I went back and read all her afterward messages because I was curious, but I couldn't find a single trace of him.

joined Nov 22, 2019

Story prediction I just thought of: Yvonne as a kid meets Elsa and promises her that she's gonna date or marry her in the future, and that's the promise that Elsa was talking about. So the reason that Yvonne couldn't remember the promise is because she hadn't made it yet.

joined Nov 22, 2019

It is possible to think of someone as both your girlfriend and your mom, it just takes a...special set of circumstances to happen.

joined Nov 22, 2019

But the attempt to portray the author, and readers who do not share your outrage at this "unacceptable" trope, as being guilty of some kind of ethical lapse is entirely unconvincing, as is the implication that portraying any kind of behavior in a fantasy story featuring anthropomorphic animals constitutes an endorsement of that behavior in real life.

The theme here is a woman being forced to marry a man and pro create with him with no option to say no. Anyone who is not opposed to that idea does have a lapse in ethical judgment, period.

As with the original poster, by using the slipshod phrase “opposed to the idea,” this assertion conflates the use of the trope with approval of the behavior depicted.

It’s quite possible to feel sympathy for the queen as a character and still not regard the use of the trope as the “indefensible” ethical transgression of an author “slapping readers in the face.”

I agree. I guess I misunderstood your original assertion. However I do believe that showing there being zero consequences to such a thing as forced marriage would equate to approval, or at least dismissal.

Once again, “arranged marriage,” even when one or both parties initially enter into it with some trepidation (as people in all kinds of marriages routinely do) is not the same as “ forced marriage,” where one or more of the parties are coerced into the marriage against their will, and the fact that this discussion has routinely conflated the two has rendered the moralizing arguments extremely tendentious. The subtext to these arguments is “the queen is being raped,” which is entirely a projection onto the text.

Did it look to you as though the queen wanted to marry the deer man?

Maybe she didn't outwardly protest the marriage, but due to her circumstances she felt as though she couldn't, meaning she was forced into it. Maybe she didn't actively protest having sex with the deer man, but did she feel as though she had the opportunity to say no?

.... Holy jesus you need to take off your pink colour glasses, you really sound like you have never sacrificed something for a greater good... Even on a daily basis for any type of couple yeah even Hetero for your information ending your "first love" or "long lasted relationship" bc of situations beyond your power is absolutely common and shit sucks but its not the end of the world and sometimes it even means a greater future... Oh but this is a Yuri story so everything should be perfect and everyone should only love one person in their life and only get together wuth that person and never ever love anyone else... Bc thats how you think it works isnt it?

I'm not arguing about the whether or not it should've been in the story, okay? And that's not what the other commenter was saying either. They said that the idea that the queen was being raped was projection, and I said that even if she didn't outwardly protest to either sex or marriage, the fact that she felt as though she had no control or power to say no, despite her clearly wanting to, does constitute rape. There's actually a word for that, you know? It's called marital rape and is not only the most common form of rape, but in many countries it is either not illegal or the law goes entirely unforced. The incessant dismissal of these facts in this discussion board is what I am arguing against.

last edited at Jan 29, 2023 11:32AM

joined Nov 22, 2019

But the attempt to portray the author, and readers who do not share your outrage at this "unacceptable" trope, as being guilty of some kind of ethical lapse is entirely unconvincing, as is the implication that portraying any kind of behavior in a fantasy story featuring anthropomorphic animals constitutes an endorsement of that behavior in real life.

The theme here is a woman being forced to marry a man and pro create with him with no option to say no. Anyone who is not opposed to that idea does have a lapse in ethical judgment, period.

As with the original poster, by using the slipshod phrase “opposed to the idea,” this assertion conflates the use of the trope with approval of the behavior depicted.

It’s quite possible to feel sympathy for the queen as a character and still not regard the use of the trope as the “indefensible” ethical transgression of an author “slapping readers in the face.”

I agree. I guess I misunderstood your original assertion. However I do believe that showing there being zero consequences to such a thing as forced marriage would equate to approval, or at least dismissal.

Once again, “arranged marriage,” even when one or both parties initially enter into it with some trepidation (as people in all kinds of marriages routinely do) is not the same as “ forced marriage,” where one or more of the parties are coerced into the marriage against their will, and the fact that this discussion has routinely conflated the two has rendered the moralizing arguments extremely tendentious. The subtext to these arguments is “the queen is being raped,” which is entirely a projection onto the text.

Did it look to you as though the queen wanted to marry the deer man?

Maybe she didn't outwardly protest the marriage, but due to her circumstances she felt as though she couldn't, meaning she was forced into it. Maybe she didn't actively protest having sex with the deer man, but did she feel as though she had the opportunity to say no?

joined Nov 22, 2019

But the attempt to portray the author, and readers who do not share your outrage at this "unacceptable" trope, as being guilty of some kind of ethical lapse is entirely unconvincing, as is the implication that portraying any kind of behavior in a fantasy story featuring anthropomorphic animals constitutes an endorsement of that behavior in real life.

The theme here is a woman being forced to marry a man and pro create with him with no option to say no. Anyone who is not opposed to that idea does have a lapse in ethical judgment, period.

As with the original poster, by using the slipshod phrase “opposed to the idea,” this assertion conflates the use of the trope with approval of the behavior depicted.

It’s quite possible to feel sympathy for the queen as a character and still not regard the use of the trope as the “indefensible” ethical transgression of an author “slapping readers in the face.”

I agree. I guess I misunderstood your original assertion. However I do believe that showing there being zero consequences to such a thing as forced marriage would equate to approval, or at least dismissal. To say the queen is perfectly happy in her situation is deplorable, and also not what the author is conveying. If they were, I would call that a lapse in ethical judgment.

last edited at Jan 28, 2023 7:07PM

joined Nov 22, 2019

Bisexuals exist.

Not in this manga it seems. Japan is still mostly stuck in "gender doesn't matter" or "this one is an exception" in yuri manga.

Isn't the "gender dosen't matter" outlook bisexual confirming? From what I've seen Japanese people are trying to fight for the strict gay and lesbian labels, as in "gender does matter to me, and i am only in love with the same gender."

For an example, there's the chapter in In Love with the Villainess, which is famous for being a social commentary on LGBT issues in Japan, where Rei's friend tries to pull the "gender dosen't matter, it's just so happens that Rei fell in love with a girl this time" card, and Rei (famously the authors mouthpiece) affirms that that isn't true, and she fell in love with Clair because she is a woman, not as an exception.

last edited at Jan 28, 2023 6:36PM

joined Nov 22, 2019

This take might be what is most likely to happen, but doesn't really make sense. The whole counter-reaction argument is "this comp-het for the queen shouldn't go away, because she is happy in the end". After you trim down the why and how around it, it's all that remains : it happens, and the characters should accept it, and we should move on.

So... if we take that at face value, why put so much emphasis on the fact that it will definitely not happen to Momo ? She is also royalty, she is no more in love with Aki than the queen and Juju were. Their situations are pretty much identical. If the author (and defenders) state that being forced to marry a guy from another country is okay, and the characters will find happiness anyway, then shouldn't you also be content if the same happens to Momo ?

I don't beleive the author is stating that it's okay for the queen to have been married off, as the chapter starts with her and Juju promising to still stay together in old age. While the queen says that she is happy and cares for her husband, it is very much in the tone of being able to find happiness in a tragic situation, and the reader is clearly meant to grieve over her lossed love with Juju.

The theme is see the groundwork being layed out for, and the theme I see constantly with this trope, is the idea of the second generation being strong and brave enough to break out of the social confines that held their parents and find a greater happiness, sometimes with the help of their parents. It's the idea of someone telling there child "I made my choice long ago, but I know you're strong enough to make a choice i never thought was possible" And I think the reason this theme comes up so often is because it is very fitting with reality, where older generations look at younger generations as being outspoken and brave, and able to break down social structures that older people thought were concrete. I know a lot of older people who have expressed hope in the younger generations, and I think that's what is being conveyed in these kinds of stories: hope.

last edited at Jan 28, 2023 6:37PM

joined Nov 22, 2019

But the attempt to portray the author, and readers who do not share your outrage at this "unacceptable" trope, as being guilty of some kind of ethical lapse is entirely unconvincing, as is the implication that portraying any kind of behavior in a fantasy story featuring anthropomorphic animals constitutes an endorsement of that behavior in real life.

The theme here is a woman being forced to marry a man and pro create with him with no option to say no. Anyone who is not opposed to that idea does have a lapse in ethical judgment, period. The question isn't whether the story endorses arranged marriage, because there is no message being conveyed aside from a telling of events. The question is whether or not you grieve for the queen who was forced into her relationship, animal girl or not. Seeing fictional characters in tragic situations and being unable to evoke emotions over them is definitely a sign of something wrong.

joined Nov 22, 2019

But the queen and the dressmaker are going to keep living their happy forced heterosexual / single life, the queen possibly have yet more sex with the husband she didn't wan

Bisexuals exist. Heck, evidence suggests more women are bi than lesbian.

There's no clear evidence that the queen doesn't love her husband now. "Get married and come to love each other" is what a lot of people did (or tried).

(As was "get married, have some required kids, then go play with your loves on the side." More discreetly for women than for men.)

because the kingdom needs more heirs. Which, you know, is fine, because the king is a nice guy anyway! This pair, I believe, is what many people (including me) are angry with.

Maybe such people shouldn't read stories about royalty then, lest history upset them.

There is little doubt that most of this drama would have been avoided if the chapter didn't start with the two ex-lovers. The trope itself is annoying

The trope of history.

showing the trope in play, with two characters that should be together being friends, having happily accepted it but not moved on

How do you know they haven't moved on? The queen calls herself happy.

Yikes, you're sure making a lot of excuses for a woman who has only shown same sex attraction being forced to marry a man and pro create with him. She is very clearly still in love with her dress maker, who she makes promise to stay beside her even in her old age. And while she does care for her husband, a nice man who she has shared the better half of her life with, there is no evidence that she romantically loves him or is attracted to him.

Sure, this kind of thing happened all the time in real life monarchies throughout history, but just because it's a reality dosen't make the story any less tragic, quite the opposite in fact. If you take a step back and look at, this is a woman who is attracted to another woman being forced to marry a man and have sex with him, with no option to say no. Whether she is bisexual is entirely irrelevant because she had no choice. You saying that this forced relationship isn't that bad because "evidence shows more woman are bisexual than lesbian" is disgusting.

joined Nov 22, 2019

Apparently they have detailed sex in the novel
Like naked naked but it seem author can only go with metaphor with the manhaw sadly

Really? Is the best place to read the novel on dynasty? Cause the latest chapter uploaded here is quite far behind where the manga story is, all the way back to when the little demon girl first showed up.

last edited at Jan 21, 2023 1:41AM

joined Nov 22, 2019

Come on, a kiss is nice, but she deserves sex already, she's one of the cutest childhood friends I've seen in years, can't end the manga without her senses being overloaded from pleasure.

It's an old debate in the gay community, but for me at least what she did with Akane in this chapter 100% counts as having sex with someone.

I would say direct genital stimulation has to occur, and akane never lost her panties. I wouldn't call dry humping sex, nor grinding. I also wouldn't really define it as sex if Jun just used the brush on Akane, even without panties, if she never touched her anywhere else directly during the session. If Jun kissed Akane or message her breasts while using the brush directly? That's when I would call it sex.

last edited at Jan 20, 2023 7:06PM