I neither misrepresented the studies, which I have read some, nor the anecdotal evidence. Also, I'm not talking like some sort of group or caricature, just like myself.
Do I really need to explain why what you said about those studies is wrong and how you completely ignored context and details? I don't want to write 10 paragraphs for this nonsense. I sincerely hope you understand why your oversimplification is wrong.
Abridged: Sex is not the cause, it is an amplifier which is extremely dependant on existing compatibility. The idea that having lots of good sex makes people fall in love is not what those studies were proving.
When you say "Of course there are people who value short-term pleasure over emotional stability", I think you are having some difficulty in understanding nuance. There is nothing necessarily emotionally stable about relationships (they can be terrible too; divorce? cheating?fights? co-dependence?), just like there isn't anything necessarily unstable about friends with benefits or respectful casual sex. The manner of relating with others is what counts, and this is about personality traits and maturity. A selfish person in a relationship may be super in love with you, but they will likely still be selfish and cause you grief; a kind person who is your friend and that you happen to find attractive, and who you have good communication with, will be a much better source of emotional stability and support even if you are not in love.
And by the way, me saying those things doesn't mean I am against romantic relationships. All I'm doing is counter-arguing your apparent assumptions that there is something necessarily better about them and that just because someone doesn't see things in such black and white categories, they must be "terrible" and "numb".
Me not understanding nuance? That's really rich coming from you haha
The emotional stability comes from the relationship, not the sex. Having sexual relations with people you don't commit to is a short-term pleasure seeking desire. If you are friends with those people it has confirmed averse effects on that relationship. "Sex friends" and the like are unstable connections and no manner of maturity can make up for that.
You have to seperate friendship (which is obviously a stable kind of relationship and has usually a positive effect) from the rest. It kinda seems that you make me out to be against friendship somehow lol
Conversely I am not saying romantic relationships have to end well or are always healthy. The point is that sexuality and romantic love are subsets of seeking stability that you can't find with friends or family. "Casualizing" them is not beneficial for most people, exceptions being those who have a hard time forming emotional bonds in the first place. It's usually a sign of someone who had either been emotionally hurt before or someone who is afraid of connections.
People who talk this way purposely usually want to appear "numb to love and societal standards", to feel unique and in control. I keep saying you are acting like a caricature, because there are almost no people who are seriously like this.
Let's agree to disagree about what happened in the manga, it's okay. But I kinda think you are misunderstanding me still...the impression I have is that you seem to believe if someone is having physical intimacy without being in love, it must mean they are not having any emotional intimacy. That's so unrealistic! lol
So of course Yuu fell in love with Touko because of the escalating physical and emotional intimacy. But all I'm saying is that at least from the way I read it, Touko kissing her, hugging her, being physically close etc was a very large component. I mean...do you seriously think if Touko just acted as platonic friend, just showing her personality without slowly easing her into being physical, Yuu would have fallen for her? If so then why was that part there, just to please the readers? lol
I do disagree. Because... the manga is there. Everything is plain to see. If I was way too nice I'd say "It's your interpretation and that's fine", but you are (almost) objectively wrong due to the source material right in front of you. So I have a hard time not saying exactly that.
Yes that is exactly what I think. As she didn't feel anything from these physical interactions when she really wanted to, despite thinking "This should make me feel something, but it doesn't." Until the sports festival, where Yuu internally realized "This admiration I feel for her is more than a platonic feeling" (not spoken, just implied).
Touko loved Yuu and wanted to do physical things with her, as all lovers do... Yuu simply let it happen. These parts were there due to Touko's input. Yuu grew emotionally during the manga and the physical aspect just added on to it. It was neither the trigger, nor necessary for the change to occur.
Once again, physicality is important for relationships, but it was not relevant to Yuu falling for Touko.
So for sure FORCED arranged marriages are a bad deal. But it's well-known that in arranged marriages where the partners are not against it (typically because they have seen each other a few times and approve of each other, and find each other cute and pleasant enough to be around), yes they often do fall in love. I only have anecdotal evidence for this, mind you, but it's from several friends who married that way and come from this type of culture.
If it's arranged, it's forced. That's kinda what that term means in this context...
Yes, there are lucky cases where the spouses did have chemistry despite having no choice.
And yes, there are also versions where there are several marriage interviews and the partner has an "illusion of choice", but ultimately only the freedom to choose between a couple of names, rather than finding the love he/she wants. It's like a really crappy Tinder which you can't escape lol
There is complex psychology involved here too. People always desire to be happy, so they will change and bend to adapt as best as they can. The most extreme examples being things like Stockholm Syndrome. You can fall in love with anyone if you force yourself enough. Our minds are weak like that.
You may not like what I'm saying, but that's hardly evidence I'm terrible/numb. I could maybe think you are judgemental. But I won't, because I find your intense defense of these romantic ideas cute and refreshing actually.
Now can we move on? :P
You seem to get quite hung up one the numb part, guess that hit a nerve as well. I can't call this act anything but terrible, but I'm not here to insult you all day. That is just my genuine reaction to such exaggerated statements. ┐(´д｀)┌
last edited at Oct 31, 2018 1:42PM
