This series may be the death of me . . .

These are all minor conflicts and hurdles, things that keep the daily slice-of-life interesting.

Heh. I was going to argue that those examples look more like jokes than conflict to me... but you did say that "conflict is whatever you want it to be" and that pretty much precludes discussion, so whatevs.

All that's required for a narrative conflict is for a character to have a goal they're trying to achieve.

"Getting Kasumi to class on time" is as much a conflict as "destroying the One Ring of Sauron."

pogotun posted:

"licensed" f*ck

This is sad because by the time we get to see the translated official version beyond de fan translation we would probably have an anime aired already.

I was just thinking that--it's the waiting. I'd be glad to pay money to support this mangaka, but the first volume probably won't even be out until next year.

I'm confused by the sheer number of people who apparently feel compelled to whine about why fiction doesn't strictly follow reality to the letter on certain things and turn a completely blind eye to every other thing that falls under that same complaint. The hypocritical double standard disgusts me.

Don't like fake bullying-based romance? THEN FUCK OFF AND DON'T READ THIS ANYMORE, NOBODY'S FORCING YOU AND NOBODY ASKED FOR YOUR OPINION!

I get it--you're really secretly dating the Forum, and this is your version of foreplay.

Very ingenious homage to the story, I must say.

last edited at May 7, 2019 6:09PM

You're all too stupid to accept opinions from other people, and you're offended and insulting them,

An example of a self-enacting statement.

Although ironic and hypocritical, it doesn't change the underlying truth in the statement.

Look, we asked for the argument in favor of the "platonic" reading, and we got a bunch of stuff that amounted to: "Well, if you explain away everything that looks like something else, it could be platonic."

I "accept" that the person holds that opinion. I also think that the opinion is based on a methodical misreading of the text and a refusal to draw first-order inferences from the textual evidence.

Earlier in the series there was arguably some ambiguity in the nature of the relationship between Kasumi and Sakurako, but recent chapters have been increasingly explicit about how the two of them see that relationship--as permanent, monogamous, and loving--and I hardly think it's "insulting" to find that attempts to explain away that text itself are unconvincing.

I can't believe we're still arguing this after the author made Sakurako describe their relationship for those who still didn't get it before...

Ah, but this tells us nothing about Kasumi's feelings toward Sakurako--she may just be putting up with the sleeping together, the being together all the time, the half-naked cuddling, the planning the rest of their lives together, and the integration into each others' families because she wants to eat Sakurako's cooking.

See how easy it is?

You're all too stupid to accept opinions from other people, and you're offended and insulting them,

An example of a self-enacting statement.

Can't you see Kasumi is just lying to herself ? She just like Sakurako as her private food dispenser obviously

Lol That's the ticket--if we assume that everything we see is fake, then things are really entirely different than they seem to be!

It's all so clear now . . .

It's still a romantic cheek kiss. Leaving aside that if you kiss someone like that, you're basically kissing the corner of their mouth, It comes at the tail end of a conversation about what Sakurako means to her. She can't really put it into words, but thinking about it on the way home, she mentions the way she calls out to her.

And this is on the same page where Kasumi mentions the "tons of girls who have called out to [her]" before (and about whom she implicitly could give a flying fuck).

Only Sakurako has ever been special.

At this point we're just talking to each other, though--"I don't think Kasumi's feelings are romantic" trumps all.

Just asking an idle question here, but it just occurred to me:

Is there a sex fetish for seeing things as "platonic"?

Why do you have to make everything gay?

Um, because it's better?

Well, my non-romantic friends and I cuddle half-naked all the time as a form of bodily temperature control.

Like Lizards.

Nikaidou is not going to allow anyone to take unfair advantage of Tadokoro or make her feel unduly uncomfortable. Including herself.

And while Tadokoro is an innocent, she’s not stupid—I think she remembers the infirmary, and welcomes another go-round with Nikaidou’s impressive abs.

the last part, 愛してる (ai shiteru) cannot, it's only used romantically (with some very, very rare exceptions, which this isn't).

This is a common misconception that gets spread around. In a context where 好き is ambiguous, then 愛してる isn't any more specifically romantic.

Could you explain this a bit more? Because every discussion I’ve seen of the terms treats them as distinct in that regard. What would be the rationale for using both in this context?

(In essence this has been a version of the conversation we used to have back in grade school: did you just “like” someone or did you “LIKE like” them? Aka “have feelings” for them. By those criteria, this one would not be a hard case.)

And, so, we carry the original Japanese version of that scene as the torch of victory (despite some (maybe even most) of us, myself included, being unable to read Japanese).

I’m not even sure that “victory” is the right rubric here as much as just dispositive evidence to put the matter to rest—if not this, then what? (Short of that hypothetical fisting scene I alluded to, of course).

But then, I answered that question previously—nothing. (After Chapter 53, I can only assume we’d get the “platonic fisting” argument should it ever be required.)

Now that, my friends, is a cliffhanger.

They are pushing their agenda, hoping to convert people to their beliefs, that's all.

Well, the more I hear from them the less idea I have of what the f*ck they’re on about, so I’d say the outreach program still needs some tweaking.

In a slightly related matter, I think the author’s conception of the characters, especially Kasumi in relation to Sakurako, is really kind of brilliant—she’s very specific and individual but her deadpan affect also makes her something of a blank slate upon whom, as we have seen, even some quite outlandish notions can be projected.

As an example of her individuality, she’s very impatient and dismissive of people who fawn over her and pay her too much attention, except, for some strange and unfathomable reason, for Sakurako, who does those things more than anyone else in the entire universe.

Go figure.

I think convincing the skeptics at this point is a lost cause. What’s still somewhat interesting to me is their motivation.

I’ve tried to imagine every plausible hypothesis for why anyone would be interested in mincing definitions so mind-boggling fine as hold the position I used think I was parodying by calling it “They’re married but not dating” but now I think is just descriptive, and I’ve pretty much come up empty.

“But I don’t think they’re romantic” is about all I’ve heard so far.

^ Which former StuCo pres? Mio (Touko's sister)? Or Doujima's senpai from the kendo club?

The senpai (who seems to have left all the work to Touko and Sayaka).

Of course, on the merits Mio doesn't make the top rank herself (getting the StuCo to do your homework is not OK, although they didn't seem to mind all that much).

It would be stupid to go back for it.

But of course, she will.

This is not the first . . . questionable decision she has made in her life.

Doujima was never a bad dude and it's obvious that he is paired up with Akari.
I didn't think this was one of the subtle parts of this story...

As I mentioned before, nobody in the story is actually a bad person (to my great relief in this case); even when people have significant foibles they’re very human and generally excusable ones.

So Doujima is a bit of a goofball and mildly sexist, which is to say he’s a (perhaps slightly better than average) het high-school boy, which seems to be right up Akari’s alley.

That said, when putting all the characters in the series on a scale of virtue/usefulness, Doujima probably ranks above Sayaka’s ex, and the lazy former student-council president, and Oogaki-kun (he had reason to lie, but he did lie and hurt Akari) and maybe somebody I’m not remembering.

But not much higher.

^ This all strikes me as a bizarrely complicated definitional exercise. I assume it must serve to accomplish some satisfying intellectual or emotional goal, but what that reward is I cannot fathom.

But, enjoy!

EDIT:

Even with Sakurako, I sometimes think she thinks of herself as a fan rather than as romantically interested.

The sort of fan who wants their idol to non-romantically sit on their face, that is.

last edited at May 6, 2019 7:25AM

Just to make sure that the historical record is as clear as possible, I adore Koyomi and want only the best for her. Doujima, though he has redeemed himself to a certain extent from utter uselessness, is not, in my humble opinion, the best.

That would be Renma-sensei.

And then there's the time when they hadn't spent much time together because Kasumi was busy so she spent the entire day with her head in Sakurako's lap, and even begged to order in so they could spend the time that'd be spent cooking in physical contact instead. Then they cuddled all the way through eating dinner. I think this falls under skinship for debunking romanticism.

Just so I understand the argument, you're citing the above as evidence that Kasumi does NOT have romantic feelings for Sakurako, is that correct?

Thanks. Honestly I don't think you guys' posts necessarily had to be removed since it was still a very civil discussion with some very light banter that got quickly recognized as such, but you do you.

Well, we were talking past each other with more of an edge than was necessary; I'd rather save that for when there's a real issue. :)

It's remarkable that such a sweet-hearted series generates as much tension among readers as it does.

Maybe that's because the characters, especially Koyuki, are realistically teenaged, i.e.; really smart and really blockheaded simultaneously--sometimes you want to just reach into the story and knock their heads together and say, "Look, you f*cking LIKE each other--now decide if you're going to kiss or not!"

Since that's not possible, readers focus their frustrations on the author first, and then each other. lol