^Manga is fiction after all. There has been a movement recently to let girls wear pants as part of their uniform in Japan, but as far as I know only one school instituted it yet. Though yes, there are lax schools without dress code everywhere, even in Japan I suppose. Probably more in rural regions tho.

I'm not sure that's the point of the story at all actually!

yeah you´re right i wasn´t clear enough i think the point of the story is that even if he doesn´t fit the "handsome feminine guy" sterotype like his friend does he is a great person and has his own charm

Like, he has fat lips... that's it. He is just really masculine looking.

you´re probably right to me all guys are ugly (including myself) so maybe that´s why i perceive takeo ugly well the point is ore monogatari is great

Yup, it's what inside that counts. I'm not into guys, but I think we all can kind of objectively judge if someone is handsome or not.

One word added in our previous comment to be precise and avoid accusations that we spoke about alcohol.

Yeah your wording was pretty terrible. We all got the 69 joke, but that didn't matter and wasn't the point.

last edited at Jan 9, 2019 3:47AM

They look absurdly happy here. Brings a tear to my eye~

It's the gap effect I tells ya. 60% of the time it works every time.

^Not like they saw much of those eras in the first place...

@Sariin This is the power of Asuka's Stand [Big Momma]!

Shoujo style Ucchi is terrifying

^^Could you tell by the artstyle? haha

Oh my. Those are the flowers from the anime OP, the ones hanging from the ceiling!

I guess tomboy goes to the only school in Japan that allows girls to wear pants then.

Have we reached the point where doing the pocky game is synonymous with kissing? Because their lips aren't even close.

@cooler1303
Don't think I didn't see what you did there! At least Rumi won't receive a shock.

^They have a thing together all year around, according to some artists :P

In the apocalypse you have fairly few reasons to not go for broke and do things you didn't dare before.

...if you say so.

The problem with Sayaka that I think you're not seeing is that her identity revolves so much around being Touko's perfect platonic wife that a rejection from Touko is going to hit her a thousand times harder than it hit Yuu. For the first time in a long time she's going to have to be someone else.

Where exactly did you pull that hoot from? The LN? The manga has in no way portrayed Sayaka as totally dependant on Touko or being Touko's "platonic wife" lol

Like, she purposely kept her distance and was fine never confessing or bothering Touko, just keeping up the friendship. There is no real indicator right now to think she couldn't go back to being in that friend role, although naturally their perception of each other would change.

I mean... you all keep talking about rock bottom or "the place where all is lost" and I'm kind of giving it to you on a platter here. And I've kept Sayaka as the "obstacle" too... kind of.

Though part of the reason I like the idea of a Sayaka Touko rebound is because I think it could give them both a soft landing.

First of all, I didn't talk about rock bottom. That place was already reached when Yuu confessed and Touko didn't manage to overcome herself in my book. Anything down from here is just extra kicks to someone who is down.

In what way would that give them a soft landing? Do you really not see how getting into a fake relationship, which will inevitably be broken up by Touko because she realizes that it wont work and she loves another girl, hurts much more?

What's more painful: Getting to taste a spoonful of pudding and then let someone take all pudding away forever from you or never having tasted it in the first place?
That is my principle here and I know many will disagree (thats the nature of this question), but I'm in the "Tasting it and taking it away" camp. If you don't know what you are missing it's easier to cope with.

And in the first place I despise fake relationships for the sake of them. Touko doesn't love Sayaka and no matter what plot will be used, that part is the number 1 reason why I can't just go along with such a callous solution. Sayaka deserves better.

I’d say that Nakatani-sensei has the skill and control to pull off any number of developments that seem impossible to us now.

Indeed she can. Doesn't mean she should or would.

last edited at Jan 9, 2019 7:29AM

Touko needs her as a friend and support, so if she truly did this, it would be out of spite.

Were you this critical of Yuu for not being able to go right back to being friends with Touko in chapter 35?

My prediction is more that Touko losing her "friend and support" in the fallout from the confession (or perhaps short lived relationship) is going to be the catalyst for change that leads Touko back to Yuu. Take it or leave it.

Except Yuu stays around and functions. Didn't leave the student council and didn't wallow in self-pity. Touko is unable to really approach her or interact, so it's clear why they don't solve their problems right away. But they have that extra layer of emotional issues. Sayaka is not broken like them and was prepared for the consequences, where Yuu only thought she was.
Believe it, if Touko needed help or support Yuu would still give it.

How so? It's easy to just randomly make a claim like that, but what exactly would losing Sayaka's friendship accomplish? An even greater confirmation for Touko that being loved and not living up to expectations has terrible consequences. The exact opposite of what she needs to evolve.
I've been saying myself that if Nakatani loses her mind and goes for the temporary Sayaka x Touko relationship that it could certainly work. It would serve its purpose alright. It's just horrible and unecessary if the alternative is far less painful and equally effective. So while the plot point works in a vacuum, it really contradicts the mood and flow of the story up to now.

So if she just abandoned Touko out of spite, is that really going along with her characterisation? No. It doesn't.

Where are you even getting "spite" from?

From you saying she would leave the student council and break off friendship with Touko. Sayaka isn't so weak that she would do this out of self-pity, so what's the alternative? Touko needs her as a friend and support, so if she truly did this, it would be out of spite.
I'm open for any other explanation though.

So you are saying the narrative almost entirely focused on Yuu and Touko's relationship and finally fixing their emotional issues to come together, does not support that Sayaka who is in the way of that result, is an obstacle?

How is the person who guided Yuu towards Touko's sister and who backed Yuu up on changing the play "in the way"? If anything she's helped them towards fixing their emotional issues, and the most assertive thing she's done up until now is tell Yuu that she's interested in Touko. And maybe according to genre formula #6AB3 Sayaka should stick around and help Touko and Yuu even more, but I'm pretty sure that's off the table.

At the end of the day what you want me to agree with just sounds like bad storytelling that won't appeal to anyone but fans of Yuu who want somebody to dunk on. Call it shipping, call it whatever, but I can't do it. I'd be incredibly disappointed in Nakatani if it goes that way.

Oh for crying out loud... how static is your thinking? Sayaka can be a supportive character or an obstacle depending on the situation. She can be completely innocent or malicious depending on the situation that she is confronted with. In this current arc she is the obstacle. Again, not a villain. This was never about her morality or goodness of character. She deserved this fair shot at Touko. She just is in the way of the end goal of the story due to her completely understandable circumstances. Got it?

No, what I'm trying to convince you is already happening, is the plot of this story. It's not even out of the damn ordinary storytelling and far from "bad". This has been successfully used countless times and is completely justified and well set up. Touko rejects Sayaka (most likely) and learns something from this event. That leads to further development down the line for both characters. Not bad writing. Not trying to dunk on a character. This is just how this story has to go if it wants to stay consistent. That's why we are all predicting it to go down that way.
If you truly think that's bad writing, I simply have to assume that you are biased. Which is fine I guess, just don't act like anyone here said something outrageous, when it's merely the obvious.

last edited at Jan 8, 2019 2:04PM

^Uhuh. Yeah we wouldn't want any cringe around here.

Will she act like a hurt lioness and say "No!"? Yeah right.

I... you're arguing against characterization here in favor of headcanon, I don't really have a response. Ganbatte! I guess.

Except Sayaka hasn't been characterized the way you say. So hang in there yourself lmao
She has been shown to be reasonable at most times and very much interested in Touko's well-being. She was passive most of the time, but she has not been shown to be resentful towards Touko in particular. Even her "You are unfair" moments are shown in a sweet way.
So if she just abandoned Touko out of spite, is that really going along with her characterisation? No. It doesn't.

Aside from the fact that we have been repeatedly telling you that she is not a villain, the point is that narratively speaking she is an obstacle. She is not actively an obstacle from the characters' point of view. Touko doesnt see her as an obstacle, so where did that ridiculous notion come from?

Have you actually considered the characters are right here and you guys are not? I feel like you're imposing cliche genre expectations here and the story in no way is backing you up. Its why I said a few posts ago that Heavensrun (at least) just seems to want Citrus.

And its not about the rejection as much as the repercussions.

...what are you even trying to say? Each reply from you becomes less coherent.

So you are saying the narrative almost entirely focused on Yuu and Touko's relationship and finally fixing their emotional issues to come together, does not support that Sayaka who is in the way of that result, is an obstacle? You have literally no evidence for your claims, while you have been spoon fed dozens of obvious narrative clues. The only argument you have on your side until now is "You can't know this will work out that way, because there is always a possibility it won't." Yeah thanks for that brilliant contribution. I guess Nakatani can completely flip the script on its head in a heartbeat, but I feel we can give her more credit than that.

Nobody here has even talked about the repercussions. Why do you bring them up yet again? I am humoring you and replying to that statement, but you are aware that it is completely seperate from the actual conversation you had with everyone here, yeah? The repercussions can be whatever they will be, but that doesn't make Sayaka less of an obstacle and less of a pit stop to the true ending.

As a fan, I ship like anybody else, and I find, say, a mental image of Koyomi in domme gear standing over a lingerie-clad Akari quivering in anticipation to be pleasantly amusing (so sue me).

I am only mildly terrified. No suing required yet.

last edited at Jan 8, 2019 11:22AM

If you haven't already I would say to check the LN (or read it if you know moonspeak) synopsis; I think there's a pretty well established precedent. On top of that she's built her life around being comfortably in Touko's friend zone, so things have to change between her and Touko no matter what. Where they were inseparable there's going to be distance... I've already said that I think her stepping away from Student Council is likely.

The more you frame her as an obstacle or villain or whatever the less Touko needs to give a shit (proportionately) about rejecting her. That's the crux of that scenario. It won't really land with someone as sympathetic as Sayaka. Its more likely to make Touko look like an asshole.

Nope, can't read moonrunes and won't bother looking it up until the thing is actually translated.
Something will change is not actually a support for your theory though. It can change in a myriad of ways, but there is still no reason to think that they will break their friendship unless Touko suddenly gets overly distant, but considering she apparently already knew Sayaka's feelings, I don't see how she could suddenly change her friendly treatment. If Touko says "Can we stay friends?" what do you think Sayaka will answer? Will she act like a hurt lioness and say "No!"? Yeah right.

Oh jesus... so this is the problem here. Aside from the fact that we have been repeatedly telling you that she is not a villain, the point is that narratively speaking she is an obstacle. She is not actively an obstacle from the characters' point of view. Touko doesnt see her as an obstacle, so where did that ridiculous notion come from? Touko cares immensely and that's good. Even if we all saw Sayaka as a villain somehow (which she isn't) the same doesn't go for Touko. She gives a shit. And that's why if she rejects her, it doesn't make her look like an asshole.

last edited at Jan 8, 2019 10:29AM

This is not an obstacle that needs to be crushed, it's one that simply happens to be there as a stepping stone towards the end goal. Sad for Sayaka, but just narratively sound.

Except its not because as I've already said rejecting the confession will probably be the end of Touko and Sayaka's friendship. And you guys are either oblivious to the fact that there essentially has to be some fallout from Sayaka's confession (because she's not a fucking villain) or want that impact hand waved. I don't get it.

That's a reach alright. There is no reason why their friendship would end here. Sayaka has prepared herself for both outcomes already and has given no hint to staking her friendship on this. If there is a rift, it would be entirely coming from Touko, who clearly values Sayaka's friendship.

I have no idea what you are even insinuating here. What exactly does this have to do with whether she is an obstacle or not? Whether there is plot or not? Whether this makes sense for the narrative or not? Yes, there will be emotional turmoil, no matter what Touko's reply will be. Is that bad? Is that wrong?

All I can say is, if you like Sayaka, you better hope Touko rejects her. Anything else is just prolonged torture.

Not sure what you are trying to say, your phrasing is pretty vague.
But it's a fact that if you drink an entire bottle of ~70% alcohol you'd be going through some nice alcohol poisoning. Except maybe for super heavy-weights whose livers are already full of holes.

Straight 70% alcohol is likely to give you burns on the mucus membranes of your throat, too. I've seen warning labels for that on smaller percentages. Like that's the percentage that's in isopropyl alcohol you find in the drugstore for sterilization.

Eyup. Rubbing alcohol is around that percentage. There's of course a difference between 70% Ethanol and other types of alcohol, but these high percentages can only be consumed in super small amounts. Technically a human can drink 95% alcohol, but only like, an ounce. And even that is pretty bad.

last edited at Jan 8, 2019 9:18AM

I never said it didn't have a plot. But it hasn't been conflict driven for 37 chapters now and Sayaka has been presented as nothing but sympathetic, so to portray her as that which must be overcome by our "heroes" now just sounds like brainless shipping to me rather than sincere story analysis. And I'm pretty sure Blastaar is just hoping to bait me at this point so there's that too.

As I see it the series has been a slow, character driven (and definitely psychological) burn. And I honestly expect it to stay a slow, character driven burn until the end. Which is why I call it a slice of life. And I think people who are looking for some sort of grand drama over the next few chapters is pretty much setting themselves up for disappointment but... whatever.

Sayaka is not the antagonist and Yuu/Touko are not the heroes. That is oversimplifying it, but that's also not what Blastaar or Heavensrun actually said. She is an obstacle to the romantic relationship of Touko and Yuu, you know, the thing the entire story built towards? But that doesn't mean we have to antagonize her. This is not an obstacle that needs to be crushed, it's one that simply happens to be there as a stepping stone towards the end goal. Sad for Sayaka, but just narratively sound.

I can't fathom why you would think that a character driven story doesn't have (much) plot. Being a slow burn or not conflict driven (minus the dozens of conflict driven situations and chapters lol) has literally no relevance to whether it's SoL or not. There are many plot heavy stories that are extremely slow. Could it be that you just don't know what SoL actually is? YagaKimi doesn't even fit the definition you posted.

How is possible that many are missing the sense of 69 % alcohol?

no one dropped dead of 69 %, as it's well known...

Not sure what you are trying to say, your phrasing is pretty vague.
But it's a fact that if you drink an entire bottle of ~70% alcohol you'd be going through some nice alcohol poisoning. Except maybe for super heavy-weights whose livers are already full of holes.

last edited at Jan 8, 2019 8:11AM