inb4 she's developed some weird new fetish that requires... further study

technically both are post-Soviet designs

oh noes da chief has caught teh gay

And that's terrible.

Hibiki's web of relationships is one of the most complex in the story. She was close to Kaoru and Kanae, but didn't get serious with either of them. She had a bf, but broke up with him. Now she seems to be getting really chummy with Midori. Will she find her one true pairing this time? (Mind you, Hibiki keeps saying she wants a new bf... but what does she know, right?)

Hibiki confirmed actual top playa of the series ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

On an entirely unrelated note, if Yuu is just 148 cm and still something like half a head or more taller than the MahiMahi, then what the heck does that make Midoriri who's visibly shorter than even them? The eighth dwarf who quit before they got famous?

I can agree with that, I wasn't trying to diagnose her. My point was that a character can have mental health issues and still have enough agency to do Bad Things. And the reverse, that just because they did Bad Things, it doesn't render all of their troubles and emotions nonexistent. So I don't think Kaoru is a Bad Person; I hope she can find a way to fulfill her needs without hurting other people or herself. I'd be pretty disappointed if we didn't see growth from her.

People certainly hurt each other readily enough without any particular mental issues or ill intent being involved anyway. But when you get down to it the entire Kaoru-Shizuka thread is one big tangle of unresolved and unhealthy emotional baggage for everyone involved - Kaoru's downright obsessive while Shizuka harbors enough lingering sentiments to constantly keep reflecting her new relationship against their old one (which is both rather unfair to Mio and not exactly healthy) and promptly get surly and jealous when the former starts looking like she might actually be getting serious about someone new.
And they've been dragging these millstones around since before they finished middle school.

Given the generally upbeat and optimistic tone of the series I'd be very surprised if the endgame of their shared arc (arriving Author only knows when) isn't learning to finally let go and move forward, one way or another.

last edited at Aug 11, 2019 1:34PM

Kaa-san is good people.

What if Kaoru is abusive in her relationship with Shizuka, even if she's not a cartoon narcissist who "loves no one but herself". People abusing those they genuinely care about is unfortunately pretty common... Same thing with the depressive episodes and the self harm as manipulation; these things aren't mutually exclusive.

But what if she was Keyser Söze?! :o

Really, as she's one of the few characters in the series whose actual thoughts we have yet to be privy to she's something of a walking Rorschach test - how we interpret her arguably says more about what we'd prefer to see than anything. (Personally I feel such an outright malign character setting would fit poorly in the general tenor of this manga.)

I think we can all agree that whatever the specifics may be she certainly isn't quite psychologically normal though.

This author obviously doesn’t understand that manga girls should be cute, with faces made of triangles and ovals as bases that are obvious in the finished product. They shouldn’t go more into realism than that, adding depth to the shape of the face and trying to make them ‘beautiful’, which the drawing is, rather than ‘cute’.
Oh, and the eyes are too sparkly. Way too distracting.

You do if you're a narcissist whose self image hinges on the belief that you're supremely desirable. I don't think she cares about Shizuka as a person I think she cares about her as a living representation of her failure as a seductress.

Didn't she jump on the whole "supremely desirable" train as a reaction though? She seems altogether less flamboyant in the few middle-school flashbacks. Rather it seems to me like the whole idea of exclusive relationship goes completely over her head so she couldn't grok the actual reason Shizuka broke up with her way back when and instead got fixated on appearances as the "only sensible" explanation. (She may or may not have arrived at this conclusion while bedridden and literally delirious from hunger; would explain a fair bit that.)

May have become bit of an end in itself since then, mind you...

There's something darkly comical in how literally ass backwards Kaoru's reading of the fundamental issue appears to be - she's fixated on reaching some ephemeral threshold of desirability she thinks will meet Shizuka's requirements for taking her back, when it's specifically her ladykiller prowess (apparently pretty formidable even before she started swilling the "elegant and gorgeous vamp" Kool-Aid) and how she seeks to improve it that drives her away in the first place.
Gets a bit tragicomic when you note how obviously Shizuka isn't nearly as over their old romance as she likes to think; Kaoru would probably have way better shot at a legit second chance without all those ostentatious "perfect seductress" shenanigans.

Girl's got her wires so badly crossed it's downright impressive.

Yeah, mild amusement is how I remember her response to Mio as well. I don't think Kaoru has a "finish line" in mind as far as her and Shizuka go I think she just expects her to continue to be available to her until she gets bored of her too. I don't think she views Shizuka as particularly special outside of the fact that she's likely the first girl to dump her before she lost interest in them and that challenged her narcissism so now she needs to reassert her desirability. Mask-senpai's complete and utter rejection of her advances is probably gonna take priority over that now because it's a greater challenge to her self-image.

We know preciously little of pre-breakup Kaoru beyond a few glimpses in a rare few flashbacks and her relationship standards apparently being as abnormal then as they are today (such being the whole reason for the breakup in the first place); but given she went to the trouble of more or less reinventing herself in order to, and has put no small amount of sustained effort for years into, correcting what she quite erroneously but apparently very earnestly thinks is the personal shortcoming that led to the relationship failing I'd say she sees Shizuka as very special indeed.

You simply don't sink that much sustained effort into "winning back" someone if you don't attach great importance to them.

Mask-san is a bit anyone's guess since we haven't had a Kaoru chapter yet after she got totally broadsided in the face and hence have no real idea how she took that fusillade (other than presumably not as extremely as with Shizuka), but she did seem to be originally quite taken by not just her looks but also her various idiosyncrasies - "birds of a feather" in a certain sense I suppose, Kaoru herself hardly being what you'd call normal. That rejection was rather interesting in itself too; "Bou-chan" didn't just unequivocally turn down "onee-sama's" advances, she rather eloquently more or less declared that what the two of them seek in life are dramatically different "and ne'er the twain shall meet" so to speak - leaving Kaoru just standing there with a look that I believe is teknik'ly termed poleaxed.

I can certainly see her taking that as a challenge of sorts (once she gathers her wits anyway), all the moreso given her interest in the girl, but also not having the slightest idea where to even start.
...it's probably going to involve bothering dear lil' sis Honoka to get a better idea of what makes fujoshi tick, though. >_>

And if memory serves she pretty much clued in on the whole ShizukaxMio business ages ago which doesn't seem to particularly bother her; neither, if memory serves, has she done anything noteworthy to get in the way thereof beyond her usual near ritualised flirting with the former.

Tolerably sure that ain't exactly textbook pathological narcissist behaviour...

I would argue that she simply doesn't view Mio as an actual barrier between her and Shizuka because as far as she's concerned she's the most important and desirable person in any space she occupies so of course Shizuka will continue to be available to her, extraneous romantic entanglements or no. Viewing Mio as a rival would be less narcissistic than dismissing her out of hand.

Well it's not like she appears to harbor any particular doubts about the inevitability of eventually regaining Shizuka's affection, though I sort of got the impression she'd started getting more proactive presumably in view of the fact that they're both third-years and it'd probably be a good idea to reach the finish line before graduation. But really, it can be argued she's just being consistent there; as most people's standard of fidelity apparently just... doesn't compute to her at all why then, within the framework of her own idiosyncratic valueset about such matters, should it bother her at all if Shizuka too has other dalliances?

Going off memory here since I CBA to hunt down all the relevant chapters for the sake of the argument but IIRC she mainly seemed to be mildly amused by the whole thing (and presumably also Shizu's unconvincing denials about it).

It is not actually terribly uncommon for emotional abusers to use self-harm as a means to control their victims through guilt.

That's fairly strong language to use about a character whose major (and only actual) malfunction appears to be an inability to grasp that her idea of "love" has some compatibility issues with most other peoples'.

She's pretty consistently manipulative and wholly unconcerned with the emotional well being of her partners and "If you break up with me I'll kill myself" is a textbook red flag that your partner is emotionally abusive. Starving yourself until the girl you cheated on takes you back out of guilt is pretty heinous. She doesn't fail to grasp that her partners expect monogamy she just doesn't care about their feelings.

Reminder that the... lesson she managed to draw from the whole breakup episode with Shizuka was, IIRC, that she herself was lacking in sufficient feminine graces and needed to brush up, which is where her current "gorgeous and elegant vamp" persona got started. (It probably says something that apparently about the only context where she lets go of it and goofs around more like someone her age is in private with her little sister; image is SRS BZNS.)
I can only assume the other girl was more than a little confused by that leap in logic.

And if memory serves she pretty much clued in on the whole ShizukaxMio business ages ago which doesn't seem to particularly bother her; neither, if memory serves, has she done anything noteworthy to get in the way thereof beyond her usual near ritualised flirting with the former.

Tolerably sure that ain't exactly textbook pathological narcissist behaviour...

^ I mean there are some very tall teens and some very short adults. Improved nutrition and overall standards of living steadily pushing up average heights might not be entirely unrelated either.

last edited at Aug 10, 2019 5:46PM

It is not actually terribly uncommon for emotional abusers to use self-harm as a means to control their victims through guilt.

That's fairly strong language to use about a character whose major (and only actual) malfunction appears to be an inability to grasp that her idea of "love" has some compatibility issues with most other peoples'.

I think Kaoru's going to be even more in love now, nobody usually holds her head and she's really into miss bouchan ^^

Well if nothing else she apparently took the hard pass better than the last time she got that from someone she's seriously into (adding a few years of age ought not have hurt her sense of perspective either). Or at least I'd imagine we'd have had some indication in the Honoka and Shizuka chapters since then if she'd gone terminally depressive again.

I mean my interpretation is that her entire depressive episode was largely a manipulative ploy to guilt trip Shizuka into taking her back which isn't something that would work with someone who couldn't care less about her outside of her relationship to their friend. I expect she's going to double down because she's a narcissist who can't conceptualize not being desired.

Given she was effectively starving herself to death or as close as makes no real difference without medical intervention that'd be quite some method acting.

I think Kaoru's going to be even more in love now, nobody usually holds her head and she's really into miss bouchan ^^

Well if nothing else she apparently took the hard pass better than the last time she got that from someone she's seriously into (adding a few years of age ought not have hurt her sense of perspective either). Or at least I'd imagine we'd have had some indication in the Honoka and Shizuka chapters since then if she'd gone terminally depressive again.

Yes, but I think that missbouchan's disinterested character in relation to kaoru's charm should make her even more interested. Kaoru finds it beautiful and mysterious, the fact that it repacks it may have the opposite effect on kaoru's feeling !
To see.

Would certainly be a healthier reaction than back in the day with Shizuka - though that isn't exactly putting the bar very high. The girl definitely isn't tuned onto quite the same wavelength as most people.

I think Kaoru's going to be even more in love now, nobody usually holds her head and she's really into miss bouchan ^^

Well if nothing else she apparently took the hard pass better than the last time she got that from someone she's seriously into (adding a few years of age ought not have hurt her sense of perspective either). Or at least I'd imagine we'd have had some indication in the Honoka and Shizuka chapters since then if she'd gone terminally depressive again.

last edited at Aug 10, 2019 4:08PM

- as well as Nikaidou switching from creepy lusting face to a much cuter, helpless expression in the last panel

...I'm going to be dissapoint if she later doesn't do that ahegao face over the thought of Inko watching her, though. :/

last edited at Aug 10, 2019 4:04PM

These cats r prity gei but it's a secret from everyone

Does anybody know Uta’s last name? I’m trying to write a fanfiction based on the chapter just released. Can anyone help?

Not sure their family name has ever been mentioned, oddly enough.

"=_="

Now I will readily admit that the major reason I'm playing the Devil's Advocate is because I am a sucker for smug faces find it funny essentially share the "not this cliché again" sentiment that spontaneously erupted here about the second Igarashi got off the train a few chapters back. The author's generally done a fine job avoiding obvious dead-horse tropes and I'm honestly going to be a bit disappointed if they just take the tired old "evil ex" route now; it also feels like it'd be a waste of the patient setting of the stage for her reappearance that began something like a dozen plus chapters back all the more so as what we've seen so far ought to have room for altogether more complex and creative arc. (I've certainly been spitballing enough fanfic synopses over that... >_>)

If anything it could be argued it's the opposite; if she was visiting in bad faith it ought to be tactically advantageous for her to appear as remorseful as she can manage right out of the gate to hopefully make Chidori lower her guard a bit...

But we still don't know anything about the exact terms on which they parted after the chocolate handoff, or the attitude senpai took at that time, or, again, what she thinks she's up to with the upcoming (present) meeting. Her off-hand reference to Chidori as "that cute kouhai" is pretty flip on the face of it.

Let's face it--readers are in the same position as Chidori: all we're really aware of are reasons for senpai not to show up, so what the fuck is she doing there?

Well, obviously. I was simply further underlining how nonsensical it is to try to rely on mere appearances for such judgement calls and how very easy it is to flip the interpretation on its head. Or to digress a bit, my mother sometimes regales me with an anecdote of how grandma at least once voted for a particular candidate "because he looked so honest"...

I'm calling them bizarre because they appear to expect absurdly overwrought over-emoting

I went and reread the last two discussion pages cuz your response made me think I was missing something lmao. Where are the telenovela dreams? The Saturday morning cartoon demands on morality? Not seeing it. Should I go back 3 pages? Can I get a quote?

Last page is close enough. The point is that Lilliwyt's argument which I'm opposed to here is that Igarashi isn't regretful on the evidence of not looking as openly remorseful as, according to them, she "should" - scroll up to see why I feel these criteria are daft.
Hell.
If anything it could be argued it's the opposite; if she was visiting in bad faith it ought to be tactically advantageous for her to appear as remorseful as she can manage right out of the gate to hopefully make Chidori lower her guard a bit...

Speculations all well and good, but why get so aggressive/righteous about your guess lol? Like, it’s not that I disagree with what you’re saying but... it’s speculation. Why throw around such strong language like “bizarre, questioning your grasp of elementary [concepts], [insert hyperbole about someone else’s claims ie “penitently crawling around in sackcloth” lol].” Since you’re both just trying to call numbers on a roulette spin, it’s impossible to definitely say who’s right until the ball actually drops. Therefore, even “bizarre claims” have some level of probability, and Lilliwyt’s claim isn’t even that bizzare. Whatever a person’s true feelings are, when they act obliquely and hold their cards close to their chest, it’s difficult to trust them. That’s also normal. Narrative predictions also place more weight on author framing than human behavior, although both typically play a part in good writing, because whether a character acts in a believable, “human” way is dependent on the purpose the author wants them to carry out.

I'm calling them bizarre because they appear to expect absurdly overwrought over-emoting in circumstances where psychologically plausible characters have no reason whatsoever to behave in such manner, whatever their motives (outliers like deliberately trying to appear as lunatics for some reason nonwithstanding). Their standards are seemingly calibrated on the basis of lurid telenovela narratives and, perhaps, the cartoonish exaggerations of light-hearted comedy series and woefully out of place in subtle human-relationship stories like this.

last edited at Aug 9, 2019 12:35PM

At most I see that first one as "regret" as in, "Huh, the chocolate ploy didn't work--didn't count on that."

I read that as the face she was making when Chidori entered, actually, given it's shown as part of her flashbacks of the encounter - unclear if it was before or after she'd said her "hard pass" piece ofc.

But it's certainly an expression very different from her confident default demeanor.

And the confrontation one seems like, "Now I've got to deal with this."

Oh, it certainly looks like the face of someone resigned to an uncomfortable but inevitable reckoning. She was effectively two-timing or at least very close to it and not terribly subtly either; she must've known it was pretty much only a matter of time before Chidori learned of her BF and was likely to start asking awkward questions. What's more interesting is her long thoughtful silence and apparent hesitation before dropping the proverbial axe on their relationship (the rather ambiguous expression she has when delivering the verdict isn't helping).
One possible explanation would be that Igarashi plain underestimated how genuinely invested Chidori was in what she may have originally viewed as that classic "playing at love at all-girls school" trope and when essentially put on the spot to choose between that relationship and her BF found it unexpectedly difficult to make the call. And going by the whole Valentine's business later may have underestimated how invested she herself got and started having second thoughts down the road.

Shouldn't cry over spilled milk but people are only too often terrible at following that chestnut. Teenagers doubly so.

Facial expressions and body language are among this author's strengths, and she's as adept at ambiguity as forthright denotation. I see those two examples (the confession one not so much) as basically ambiguous and not giving away much.

This is all basically prediction stuff, which I try to stay away from. But I'm reading the relatively few cues very differently, anyway.

Hey, someone has to play the Devil's Advocate.