I am catching up on this, I didn't know it,but... there's Yoshida and Abe...right? they have something going on, why, why can't Chidori-not-Fate and Nanoha just tell their friends...I've been in a sort of secret relationship, cos she was in the closet. IT'S THE WORST,well it was the worst for me, would nevah do it again

I am catching up on this, I didn't know it,but... there's Yoshida and Abe...right? they have something going on, why, why can't Chidori-not-Fate and Nanoha just tell their friends...I've been in a sort of secret relationship, cos she was in the closet. IT'S THE WORST,well it was the worst for me, would nevah do it again

Well, the first thing the other girls did when they found out about that couple was to go tease them, and Nanoha and Chidori want to to avoid that, and to avoid disrupting the group dynamic as well.

Secrecy seems to matter to Chidori in particular, though, to a degree that suggests something beyond avoiding teasing. And then there’s the family issue. . .

It’s a bit of an open question whether there’s more to it than the above, along with simply being one of the premises of the series.

At this point, though they might have initially kept it a secret out of fear or mockery or whatever, I think at this point it's more out of general shyness. They can't even say "you're my girlfriend" to each other without stammering and blushing (most of the time), so it'd probably be even more difficult to say that to anyone else. So the potential reactions of their friends is kind of irrelevant, since it's just so difficult for Chidori and Nanoha to talk about at all.

Also, there might just be an element of inertia. Except for Chidori's short musings during the sleepover, we've never seen either of them consider even for a moment why they're hiding their relationship or if it makes sense to do so. I think sometimes people make decisions and then stick with them not because that decision continues to make sense but rather because it just doesn't occur to us to change our minds.

I think sometimes people make decisions and then stick with them not because that decision continues to make sense but rather because it just doesn't occur to us to change our minds.

Oh how many times has that happened / is happening to me.

Someone should make a book out of the life lessons shared in this forum...
(I mean it, between the weird fights, random meme posts, wonderfully way too serious analysis of the manga in question - which I enjoy deeply - there are quite some gold nuggets here and there. Maybe this forum would benefit from a thread of "life-lessons-motivational-posters"?)

Back on topic, gayness and relationships are both two topics that still aren't handled ...well, exactly openly in japanese culture / society (although it's gotten ahelluva lot "better" / westernly in the past few decades). It's a far cry from the handling of lgtb+ in where I presume most of us readers/commentors live. E.g.: While in most western societies romance and love/relationships were very openly handled, only some 20-30 years ago queer people were ridiculed in pop-culture and shunned in every-day life - ...and now basically anyone even so much as trying to shun minorities gets ridiculed and shunned.
Now, Japan (and to my understanding most eastern cultures) handles the whole topic of romance (or sexuality) much differently (basically "do what you must in your own home behind closed doors, but present yourself according to conformity"), and even though things changed a lot in recent history, even if certain topics are being discussed and presented in a much more serious fashion in pop-culture, there still is a huge difference culturally.

There's also the much bigger seperation/differentiation between media (-consumption) and real life (-expectation/-execution) at play here...
(And as an aside, yes, romance has always been fodder for the muses and enjoyed by the masses, but real-life 'application' was(/is) still handled much differently to western cultures. I am sure we all know about the "holding hands in public" thingy - which to my knowledge has gotten to being treated much less eye-brow-frowny / shock-value'y in the past decade as well, but there's still some truth to it.)

I guess, what I'm trying to say is... when we read these manga we like to perceive them from our own experience and with our own cultural / sociologcial background in mind and easily forget that these are initially stories by japanese for their japanese audience, who share a similar culturalization and therefore understanding; of where the story comes from, what the characters' enviroment is and means to them, how to (not) take the story in relation to real life, and how some things are huge issues that in our mind are mere banalities (and the other way around).

So, yeah, I agree strongly with the above posts but would put additional weight on "trying to fit in" and a not-so-irrational "fear of repercussions"...

last edited at Aug 5, 2019 12:38PM

^ In the first instance I tend to approach these questions as, “What are the expectations created in this specific storyworld?” Hence my emphasis on the reaction to Abe-Yoshida-senpai relationship—acceptance, of a sort, but not without (fairly benign) social consequences.

As it happens, because Dynasty manga often load slowly or hang up on my tablet, when I’m doing a complete re-read of a longish series I often read it elsewhere, where, for some reason, they don’t include the Volume 2 extras, which, as it happens, I had forgotten gives a pretty complete overview of the other girls’ attitudes about same-sex relationships, attitudes which suggest that Chidori and Nanoha coming out as a couple would meet with—wait for it—acceptance, of a sort, but not completely without social consequence, at least among their friends.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/hana_ni_arashi_volume_2_extras#1

In this story, I honestly don't think being gay has anything to do with why they're hiding it. If Chidori were dating some guy from another school, she'd probably keep it from her friends for much the same reasons.

In this story, I honestly don't think being gay has anything to do with why they're hiding it. If Chidori were dating some guy from another school, she'd probably keep it from her friends for much the same reasons.

It’s a little hard to argue against (or for) a counterfactual like that. The fact remains that, for whatever reasons, they’re committed to keeping the relationship secret, Chidori rather more than Nanoha, although it’s unknown whether that’s just because Nanoha is more outgoing (she almost lets it slip a couple of times) or because Nanoha’s mostly keeping it secret because she knows how much Chidori cares about it.

People have been saying that if and when their secret does come out, the other girls will have known all along. While I still think that’s mostly readers ironically flipping the script (I just can’t see those bubbly girls not letting on that they know), on re-reading the series I now think it might be possible that at least one of them knows or suspects—every time there’s the possibility of the secret coming out, somebody does that “Right, we all love each other!” thing and bails them out.

Whether that’s just plotting or also characterization remains to be seen.

^ In the first instance I tend to approach these questions as, “What are the expectations created in this specific storyworld?” Hence my emphasis on the reaction to Abe-Yoshida-senpai relationship—acceptance, of a sort, but not without (fairly benign) social consequences.

You're absolutely right. But... I'd still argue that Nanoha and Chidori were not present there, and might not know their friends are actually this open-minded and casual about the topic (with one of them basically being branded as westernized).
And them being all gropey-touchy could be considered as goofing off and not be taken as their actual stance on the matter (by N&C). So, I guess, in this specific storyworld they can be afraid to come out, because they don't know any better..? (and keep nullifying any opportunities to find out, like the group-chat in ch.8)

If Chidori were dating some guy from another school, she'd probably keep it from her friends for much the same reasons.

I'm not trying to argue that, I could not provide evidence for the contrary, but I would kinda like to know if you have a particular basis for that?
...not to stretch out the discussion, but because I am honestly curious and would like to be given insight.

...did I mention I love the way-too-serious analysis of manga here? :P

Now, Japan (and to my understanding most eastern cultures) handles the whole topic of romance (or sexuality) much differently (basically "do what you must in your own home behind closed doors, but present yourself according to conformity")

Or put another way shame cultures are utterly hung up on outward appearances. Less prominent in "guilt" cultures like the Western ones nowadays but that's a relatively recent developement.

If Chidori were dating some guy from another school, she'd probably keep it from her friends for much the same reasons.

I'm not trying to argue that, I could not provide evidence for the contrary, but I would kinda like to know if you have a particular basis for that?
...not to stretch out the discussion, but because I am honestly curious and would like to be given insight.

...did I mention I love the way-too-serious analysis of manga here? :P

She may have some hang-ups with their relationship particularly because it's same-sex, but for the most part, her anxieties seem generalized and could apply to any relationship. She gets so uncomfortable just thinking about romance that she blushes randomly, fidgets, talks to herself, and stress eats. She's not just embarrassed about her relationship in public (where outsiders' views might matter), she gets embarrassed when alone with Nanoha and even when she's by herself. So I don't think her secretive nature is based on actual considerations of how people might react, it's just a general neurosis. On top of that, she is clearly unused to having close friends and doesn't really talk about her private life or her past at all.

So no matter what the relationship was like or how people might react to it, she wouldn't be volunteering details to her friends.

Basically, I just don't think discrimination (perceived or actual) against same-sex relationships is a deciding factor in why she hides it.

last edited at Aug 5, 2019 2:18PM

why cant this end up like tadokoro

Strap in boys and girls, this one's gonna be rough

One letter away to be lewd.

if y'all thought this senpai came out of nowhere, you haven't been paying attention to the multiple chapters that hinted her existence and connection to chidori

bangs head with frustration

So, Chidori cut her hair "September of [her] freshman year" to declare to "never fall in love again".
The Japanese school year begins in April, and September is just after summer break.
So presumably she had some "it" with Igarashi between April and end of Juli and/or during Summer break.

The following February / half a year later, the Valentine's Chocolate thingy happened (Ch.10&22)
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/hana_ni_arashi_ch10#11
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/hana_ni_arashi_ch22#12
(two flashbacks, same time-frame, different POV)
Chidori already has them feelz for Nanoha and decides to "end it" with Igarashi.

Half a month later / Spring, Nanoha confessed to Chidori and they're a couple ever since... in secret, of cos.

A final question is: how did Chidori and the senpai spend time together in the first place?

I kinda thought Igarashi may have been a member of the literature club.
I can't base this on anything but a hunch caused by
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/hana_ni_arashi_ch04#5
Chidori thinking "Somehow, it feels strange having Nanoha here" [in the club room].

Me thinks, that maybe, just maybe, Chidori had a one-sided crush on her senpai, confessed before or during summer break, didn't get the desired reaction (judging from the card later, prolly something amongst the lines of "you like me? ...like, in the gay-way? um, can't we be just friends?"), and cut her hair, still secretly swooning over her senpai because hearts can't be convinced so easily as getting a hair-cut.
But, she developed feelings for Nanoha over the time, then - half a year later?! - by Valentine's Day, senpai changed her mind, sent her the chocolate as well as that implicative card ("These aren't just as friends") - but, too late gal, Nanoha has her hooks deep into Chidori's heart already, so Chidori (incidentally spurred on by something Nanoha said) went to Igarashi and told her her true feelings "Yeah, thanks but no-thanks. I mean, what did you expect, keeping me on arm's length for half a year... I MOVED ON, BIATCH!" (-paraphrased).
Lucky for her, a few weeks later she finds out that Nanoha is one whose Love is the same as hers~

That's what I get from the text so far, but I wouldn't mind if things turned out to have happened differently / more dramatic, for the sake of suspense...

thank you for being one of the few readers who pay attention

Um... thanks? ^^

And thanks very much at schuyguy for giving a very insightful description of Chidori's character!
So it's not just Chidori hiding in the closet (...ehehe~ https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/hana_ni_arashi_ch37#13 I still love how literal that is) but quite possibly an overall sorta paranoia / neurosis.
Now, a question could be, if - besides her being on the more introvert end of the scale to begin with - she's gotten more so for her "it" with Igarashi or was like that already (and if so, if her own attitude maybe backfired at her and could potentially be bad for her relationship with Nanoha as well).

New chapters: Miku-sempai = Biotch! Nanoha will kick your ass . . .

New chapters: Miku-sempai = Biotch! Nanoha will kick your ass . . .

Thank

New chapters: Miku-sempai = Biotch! Nanoha will kick your ass . . .

Combo Boyfriend + "But we're both girls Chidori"

New chapters: Miku-sempai = Biotch! Nanoha will kick your ass . . .

Combo Boyfriend + "But we're both girls Chidori"

ikr: Flirting in a girls’ school is one thing, but a dead-serious “I love you” + “not just friends” Valentines chocolate—nuh uh. Nope. Outta here, with extreme prejudice. (Plus the nasty smirk, of course.)

New chapters: Miku-sempai = Biotch! Nanoha will kick your ass . . .

Combo Boyfriend + "But we're both girls Chidori"

ikr: Flirting in a girls’ school is one thing, but a dead-serious “I love you” + “not just friends” Valentines chocolate—nuh uh. Nope. Outta here, with extreme prejudice. (Plus the nasty smirk, of course.)

Also i don't know if it was a typo but when Igarashi come back in the end of chapter 36, she said "The cute kouhai WE left behind" but maybe she simply talk to another ex-student. I feel like she will say she was serious back then and try to seduce Chidori back but then super-GF Nanoha come back and save the day

NOW, I know who she is

last edited at Aug 7, 2019 10:45AM

I’m going to hold off on any more commentary until we get the chapters here, but both of you above: ^^ yeah, for sure.

EDIT: And they're up. I really do try to stay out of the prediction business around here, but I can't help thinking of any number of ways this could go.

Remember, at the moment Nanoha is a bit miffed at Chidori for not discussing things together, so I can imagine her being disconcerted to find out about Chidori's past love, and then comparing herself unfavorably with Ms. Hottie-Just-Ask-Her.

Nanoha is due back in the clubroom momentarily, too, so I can imagine some sempai bullshit seduction strategy that Nanoha walks in on.

I can hardly imagine this series as a whole ending badly, though, so I'm actually fine with a little drama and misunderstanding, at least temporarily--they make up so cutely anyhow.

last edited at Aug 7, 2019 11:44AM

That bitch

I'm thinking that Igarashi was just in a tightly locked closet and was lying to herself too. She took a peek outside of her closet because her trip abroad probably broadened her horizons.

It does not excuse her for leading Chidori on, but I think that, in the end, if she doesn't come out and goes on marrying that guy, she will end up in a worse place than Chidori.

The honmei choco were probably a sign she valued Chidori a great deal, not only a seduction move.

So, have some empathy for the lesbian trapped in a het relationship by her environment.

last edited at Aug 7, 2019 11:48AM