i love when bocchi is drawn with a subtle masculinity
LemonJuice
Aug 20, 2024 11:45PM
Already got the collar on
FluffyCow
Aug 21, 2024 2:48AM
Great <3
norahash
Aug 22, 2024 4:30PM
the trans bocchi agenda is winning. and that collar? sheesh
juanelric
Aug 22, 2024 6:07PM
^Why trans?
Nothing against trans people, just curious why you call this specific depiction of Bocchi trans lol
motormind
Aug 22, 2024 9:40PM
Wow, Nijika owns a ridiculously big drum kit.
norahash
Aug 22, 2024 9:43PM
she has a fairly large frame and her arms are noticeably bigger than nijika's. not saying it was the artist's intent but, well, she looks like me. so in my head she's trans. and i've seen bocchi depicted in this way pretty frequently in fan art
Zormau
Aug 22, 2024 10:05PM
Wasn't "butch" the word for lesbian women presenting/appearing more masculine? Seems less presumptive than jumping straight to trans (wait, that phrasing is a bit weird).
Unless the word has fallen utterly out of favor...
FluffyCow
Aug 22, 2024 10:22PM
I think some artists like to draw Bocchi as a tall and shy bottom to a short and assertive top Nijika. I wonder who started that trend with this series, but I know that's a very popular lesbian couple dynamic in the art scene in general. It's also interesting how that happens with fan art, since I believe canonically they're about the same height, but with fan creations body size tends to vary a lot for most series.
Also while I view the characters as cis personally I say more power to you with how you're interpreting them in a way that you relate to Norahash.
FluffyCow
Aug 22, 2024 10:38PM
@Zormau Butch is still popular to my knowledge, just from my understanding Norahash is a trans woman that's relating to the character via a headcanon that the character is also trans. So describing Bocchi as Butch in art such as this might be better for some people, and describing her as Trans might be better for others. Basically the classic saying of the mileage will vary depending on the person, and everyone's interpretation is valid.
Zormau
Aug 22, 2024 11:19PM
@FluffyCow Ah, that makes sense. It's not that I couldn't see the angle before, but the conclusion is a lot easier to understand through that lens.
I've not been around in the forums a lot in the past year or so, so I naturally don't know anything about a lot of the newer "faces" or those that didn't stick in my memory.
last edited at Aug 22, 2024 11:21PM
The Real Haman Karn
Aug 23, 2024 9:57AM
the trans bocchi reading emerged from her resonating with a lot of trans women's particular experiences with loneliness, alienation and social awkwardness. Her retreating into the internet from anxiety/shame and her social skills atrophying. Crucially this is combined with her wearing that unflattering tracksuit all the time to hide her body, which is extremely common and can be read as Bocchi's gender dysphoria as well as body dysmorphia. So there you go.
juanelric
Aug 23, 2024 10:21AM
Haman Karn always makes me think of Minky Momo (and vice versa) btw
I think they meet in a Super Robot Wars game
DrJamesFox
Aug 23, 2024 10:30AM
@The Real Haman Karn that was very informative so thanks for that.
FluffyCow
Aug 23, 2024 1:24PM
Wait does Bocchi wear the tracksuit to hide her body specifically? It's been a minute so my memory is hazy. To my knowledge it's pretty common in anime for it to be the easy choice of lounge wear for lazy characters / shut ins. Looking through things I saw a a Reddit post saying she wears one because of falling down, also a 2016 MAL forum post about Hikkikomori characters wearing tracksuits. Though I'd say aside from Hikkikomori characters you have NEETs. Plus two examples off the top off my head that even came after 2016 are, Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut using a Track Jacket and going bottomless as her choice of lazy gaming wear, and Miyako Hoshino from An Angel Flew Down to Me wears a tracksuit as her at home lounge wear.
Which I mean if people interpret Bocchi as wearing a tracksuit because of dysphoria related reasons fair enough. As I was saying before everyone's interpretation is valid. For me it's a common trope with Japanese media and Bocchi is relatable for everyone with social anxiety and so fourth. I'm not trans myself and I think Bocchi is extremely relatable, and I also think if there's specific elements that trans people find relatable to their experiences that's cool. I think Bocchi being relatable for different people and a variety of different experiences with isolation and alienation is part of why she's a great character.
luinthoron
Aug 23, 2024 1:56PM
And while we're talking about the amazingness of track suits, one should never forget Rin.
girlswhokiss
Aug 23, 2024 1:59PM
That's not butch! She's still clearly feminine (VERY feminine) and you can be both butch and trans fem, for butch think of someone with very short hair and a very masculine dressing style and preferably fat and/or muscular. Now with that image of a masculine lesbian in your head, you are free to imagine a long-haired butch, but this is not it!
juanelric
Aug 23, 2024 2:44PM
Track suits are also somewhat common for mangaka characters, like Hina Araki from Idolmaster
FluffyCow
Aug 23, 2024 3:00PM
@girlswhokiss Yeah I should say I didn't mean to say being butch and trans is exclusive, just that sometimes one word or another is better depending on the person, sometimes both works of course.
@luinthoron lol true
@juanelric Yeah track suits are pretty popular with Japanese media, though I don't know if they're popular in real life in Japan as well, or if that's just Slavs lol
girlswhokiss
Aug 23, 2024 5:31PM
@FluffyCow Oh don't worry that wasn't directed at you only! But this is the second time I've seen someone use Butch incorrectly, it should be used to very masculine lesbians (mostly when it comes to style) and not like the body structure itself because it is also a type of identity
FluffyCow
Aug 23, 2024 7:44PM
@girlswhokiss I don't disagree, I'm not personally describing the characters in this art as Butch. Only that I'm taking a "live and let live" approach, where if someone says Trans and/or Butch in how they relate to this art and see the characters that's their interpretation. I'm aiming to keep an open mind about how others view things.
luinthoron Aug 20, 2024 6:04AM
Very nice. ^_^
larvi Aug 20, 2024 11:01PM
i love when bocchi is drawn with a subtle masculinity
LemonJuice Aug 20, 2024 11:45PM
Already got the collar on
FluffyCow Aug 21, 2024 2:48AM
Great <3
norahash Aug 22, 2024 4:30PM
the trans bocchi agenda is winning. and that collar? sheesh
juanelric Aug 22, 2024 6:07PM
^Why trans?
Nothing against trans people, just curious why you call this specific depiction of Bocchi trans lol
motormind Aug 22, 2024 9:40PM
Wow, Nijika owns a ridiculously big drum kit.
norahash Aug 22, 2024 9:43PM
she has a fairly large frame and her arms are noticeably bigger than nijika's. not saying it was the artist's intent but, well, she looks like me. so in my head she's trans. and i've seen bocchi depicted in this way pretty frequently in fan art
Zormau Aug 22, 2024 10:05PM
Wasn't "butch" the word for lesbian women presenting/appearing more masculine? Seems less presumptive than jumping straight to trans (wait, that phrasing is a bit weird).
Unless the word has fallen utterly out of favor...
FluffyCow Aug 22, 2024 10:22PM
I think some artists like to draw Bocchi as a tall and shy bottom to a short and assertive top Nijika. I wonder who started that trend with this series, but I know that's a very popular lesbian couple dynamic in the art scene in general. It's also interesting how that happens with fan art, since I believe canonically they're about the same height, but with fan creations body size tends to vary a lot for most series.
Also while I view the characters as cis personally I say more power to you with how you're interpreting them in a way that you relate to Norahash.
FluffyCow Aug 22, 2024 10:38PM
@Zormau Butch is still popular to my knowledge, just from my understanding Norahash is a trans woman that's relating to the character via a headcanon that the character is also trans. So describing Bocchi as Butch in art such as this might be better for some people, and describing her as Trans might be better for others. Basically the classic saying of the mileage will vary depending on the person, and everyone's interpretation is valid.
Zormau Aug 22, 2024 11:19PM
@FluffyCow Ah, that makes sense. It's not that I couldn't see the angle before, but the conclusion is a lot easier to understand through that lens.
I've not been around in the forums a lot in the past year or so, so I naturally don't know anything about a lot of the newer "faces" or those that didn't stick in my memory.
last edited at Aug 22, 2024 11:21PM
The Real Haman Karn Aug 23, 2024 9:57AM
the trans bocchi reading emerged from her resonating with a lot of trans women's particular experiences with loneliness, alienation and social awkwardness. Her retreating into the internet from anxiety/shame and her social skills atrophying. Crucially this is combined with her wearing that unflattering tracksuit all the time to hide her body, which is extremely common and can be read as Bocchi's gender dysphoria as well as body dysmorphia. So there you go.
juanelric Aug 23, 2024 10:21AM
Haman Karn always makes me think of Minky Momo (and vice versa) btw
I think they meet in a Super Robot Wars game
DrJamesFox Aug 23, 2024 10:30AM
@The Real Haman Karn that was very informative so thanks for that.
FluffyCow Aug 23, 2024 1:24PM
Wait does Bocchi wear the tracksuit to hide her body specifically? It's been a minute so my memory is hazy. To my knowledge it's pretty common in anime for it to be the easy choice of lounge wear for lazy characters / shut ins. Looking through things I saw a a Reddit post saying she wears one because of falling down, also a 2016 MAL forum post about Hikkikomori characters wearing tracksuits. Though I'd say aside from Hikkikomori characters you have NEETs. Plus two examples off the top off my head that even came after 2016 are, Gabriel from Gabriel DropOut using a Track Jacket and going bottomless as her choice of lazy gaming wear, and Miyako Hoshino from An Angel Flew Down to Me wears a tracksuit as her at home lounge wear.
Which I mean if people interpret Bocchi as wearing a tracksuit because of dysphoria related reasons fair enough. As I was saying before everyone's interpretation is valid. For me it's a common trope with Japanese media and Bocchi is relatable for everyone with social anxiety and so fourth. I'm not trans myself and I think Bocchi is extremely relatable, and I also think if there's specific elements that trans people find relatable to their experiences that's cool. I think Bocchi being relatable for different people and a variety of different experiences with isolation and alienation is part of why she's a great character.
luinthoron Aug 23, 2024 1:56PM
And while we're talking about the amazingness of track suits, one should never forget Rin.
girlswhokiss Aug 23, 2024 1:59PM
That's not butch! She's still clearly feminine (VERY feminine) and you can be both butch and trans fem, for butch think of someone with very short hair and a very masculine dressing style and preferably fat and/or muscular. Now with that image of a masculine lesbian in your head, you are free to imagine a long-haired butch, but this is not it!
juanelric Aug 23, 2024 2:44PM
Track suits are also somewhat common for mangaka characters, like Hina Araki from Idolmaster
FluffyCow Aug 23, 2024 3:00PM
@girlswhokiss Yeah I should say I didn't mean to say being butch and trans is exclusive, just that sometimes one word or another is better depending on the person, sometimes both works of course.
@luinthoron lol true
@juanelric Yeah track suits are pretty popular with Japanese media, though I don't know if they're popular in real life in Japan as well, or if that's just Slavs lol
girlswhokiss Aug 23, 2024 5:31PM
@FluffyCow Oh don't worry that wasn't directed at you only! But this is the second time I've seen someone use Butch incorrectly, it should be used to very masculine lesbians (mostly when it comes to style) and not like the body structure itself because it is also a type of identity
FluffyCow Aug 23, 2024 7:44PM
@girlswhokiss I don't disagree, I'm not personally describing the characters in this art as Butch. Only that I'm taking a "live and let live" approach, where if someone says Trans and/or Butch in how they relate to this art and see the characters that's their interpretation. I'm aiming to keep an open mind about how others view things.