^^ Yup- they will probably need to share more than a toffee apple behind a stall soon.
Its really weird they never got any doujins- a pretty popular show with multiple seasons, thats a spin off a much bigger super popular IP - with 2 young girls who are kinda related, making out a lot- and it doesn't get any yuri doujins, even straight up hentai?
last edited at Apr 18, 2020 12:36AM
Blank Mage
Apr 18, 2020 2:50AM
Is that mask... Signum, from Lyrical Nanoha A's...?
MagiMaki
Apr 18, 2020 3:18AM
It gets lots of hentai with old men, if that helps...
BugDevil
Apr 18, 2020 3:27AM
The only people who make hentai of it are obviously disgusting lolicons catering to their rape fetish. Of course there are almost no yuri doujins. The people in it for the loli fanservice are the ones who would do porn of it in the first place, not the ones who actually like Prillya for the story and lore. So they also dont care about the actual relationship dynamics (btw there is nothing between Illya and Kuro. Both of them care more about Miyu in that way).
last edited at Apr 18, 2020 3:27AM
Zen-Pai
Apr 18, 2020 3:58AM
Fan service ;]
rokfer
Apr 18, 2020 6:57AM
Neh man, the only think people making doujins are catering to their "onee-chan lolicon rape fetish" with Shirou.
People actually don't make any yuri doujins because they don't need it, it's already everywhere in the show. (they prefer to make doujins with Shirou to satisfy their 'lolicons needs')
And even though Illya and Miyu have an obvious Nanoha/Fate relationship, Kuro is so tsun-tsun for Illya in the second half of 2wei (especially in the manga) and so overprotective of her in 3rei that it's obvious she has started to fall for her as well.
The 3 of them form the best yuri triangle ever.
elevown
Apr 18, 2020 10:39AM
@BugDevil Got to disagree here- I absolutely think there is something between them, especially from Kuro's side.
we got very little subtext between either of them and Miyu after S1
BugDevil
Apr 18, 2020 10:49AM
@elevown Forget about the anime, it's trash.
Anyway, this is going to be too long to fully get into, but the fact of the matter is:
1. Illya and Kuro are in love with Shirou (sorry, I don't care for it either, it's just a thing that was taken over from F/SN, because haha funny). I'm not saying they can't have a crush on several people, it should just be remembered that this will loom over the entire thing forever.
2. Illya only sees Kuro as a little sister. This has never once been contradicted, not even with subtext. Her protectiveness is just part of that.
3. Kuro likes messing with Illya and every single kiss or lewd thing she does in the series is purely for fanservice. Not a single one can be taken seriously. It's her comedic quirk. (It's even more obvious in the anime)
4. Illya and Miyu have endless "hey this is a gay magical girl show too" subtext moments and narratively speaking they are optimal partners (as in they complete each other). Whether you like the chemistry or not, it's how they are written. Kuro is the typical rival foil of "I'm like your opposite mirror image".
5. Miyu is gayer for Illya than a rainbow shooting scissors from its bow. The manga is very heavy on the subtext there.
6. Kuro would rather pick Miyu than the entire world. She has been doing nothing but thinking of and supporting Miyu for all of 3rei. Illya is merely a side-concern.
7. Illya is more restrained in every direction, but she only flips her switch with Miyu (literally).
I don't mind if people ship them or disagree with my opinion, but the above is at the very least as unbiasedly objective as I can see the manga.
^ Lol- I certainly DO :) Even if it turns out everything I think I see is just in my head. I'll just be glad quite a few others see the same and made some fan art and fiction.
AkinomaHNU
Apr 18, 2020 7:00PM
To this day, I still wonder why Kuro x Illya isn't tagged as selfcest. I get that Kuro has sort of split off from Illya but they are still technically the same person given that Kuro IS the incarnation of Illya's sealed memories + archer card + mana.
last edited at Apr 18, 2020 7:01PM
Nevri
Apr 18, 2020 7:11PM
I was wondering too, but she has different personality and because Illya grow up without those memories and Kuro did (as much as you can call it growing up) I guess they more qualify as sisters now than same person.
Sakura Cartelet
Apr 18, 2020 10:03PM
Then why no incest tag if they're sisters?
elevown
Apr 18, 2020 10:08PM
^Because they are 'kinda' sisters in the same way they are 'kinda' the same person. But Not really either..
Nevri never said they WERE sisters - just 'more like'.
Its a unique thing- it doesn't need cramming into a tag it doesn't really belong in just because its kinda close.
last edited at Apr 18, 2020 10:12PM
Sakura Cartelet
Apr 18, 2020 10:20PM
So wait they're sisters but not sisters at the same time? Did I get this right. So if I also got it right then a ship like Mysterious Heroine X (Alter)/Mysterious Heroine X would not be either selfcest or incest then.
BugDevil
Apr 19, 2020 1:01AM
It is Selfcest. You can philosophize all you want, but that's a fact. Same way Shirou and Archer getting it on would be selfcest. Or standard Arturia and Arturia Alter. Whether you wanna tag it that or not, it's just what it is. Their bodies and mind are exactly the same, with the exception of Kuro also having all the bad memories.
Nevri
Apr 19, 2020 7:21AM
"Their bodies and mind"
Except their mind's are nothing alike. That's the whole issue. If Kuro was just Illya clone with exact same personality then I'd get how it's selfcest (even if the moment she has been cloned they personalities would start to diverge every so slightly, by different experiences), but every since Kuro came to exist, she behaved completely different to Illya, had different personality, goals, reactions. So even if they have the same body, they're 2 different people. Hence more twincest than selfcest (technically they're not sisters, but I bet biologically their bodies probably are exactly the same).
@Sakura Cartelet
Mysterious Heroine X (Alter) and Mysterious Heroine X is another whole can of worms I don't even want to go into.
BugDevil
Apr 19, 2020 8:00AM
^Personality is irrelevant. I said mind. She shares all of Illya's memories, except she also remembers the bad stuff. Selfcest has nothing to do with personality. If two people are genetical clones to the last detail then it's selfcest. Kuro wasn't born in a lab or from Irisviel's womb, she is simply a split part of Illya fused with the Archer card. That makes her more indentical to her than any twin could ever be.
My example of Archer and Shirou was supposed to convey this. Archer has a completely different personality and viewpoint on the world from his younger self. He gained new powers and was even physically altered due to overstraining his magic circuits. Yet if thos two got it on it would still be selfcest. Because both of them are Emiya Shirou. Kuro/Chloe is Illya, even if nobody in the story wants to acknowledge it.
elevown
Apr 19, 2020 8:25AM
^No its seriously NOT- we ARE our personality- however it was formed. Identical twins are genetically identical you know.. they are NOT the same person. Kuro did not live the same life as Illiya even if she shares her memories - and we dont even know she DOES. Plus she has her own extra memories. And watching from within - if thats what was happening - maybe she was 'asleep' for most of it? - watching through illyas eyes is not the same as being the one doing those things.. IF she was identical in mind she would act and behave exactly like Illiya in all things- yet she is completely different mentally. To be selfcest it literally has to be another YOU - who thinks and acts the same and knows everything you do. imo.
Kuro is no more Illiya than identical twins who grow up together and share many of the same memmories are the same person.
@Sakura Cartelet Nobody said they are and are NOT sisters. They literally are NOT. They can be considered similar to sisters.
Anyways thats enough of going into that, so I'll leave it there since its in the image thread.
last edited at Apr 19, 2020 8:33AM
Nevri
Apr 19, 2020 9:34AM
Shirou and Archer are selfcest, because Shirou is literally Archer's younger self. They're from different eras. If events of grail war didn't happen, Shirou was going to eventually become Archer. Meanwhile you can't say the same about Illya and Kuro. They have 2 different personalities and depending who would be the one to live the life, they'd grow up to be different people. They might share the same genetics, but are not the same person. Just like normal real life twins. Unless you're implying our personalities don't matter and twins are the same person.
Honestly the whole my different version/timeline etc. is ultra confusing and not something we really have to deal with irl, but I feel like Kuro and Illya are a pretty clear cut example of twins.
BugDevil
Apr 19, 2020 9:38AM
I fear this won't end well if we continue... but I'll give one final statement as well. If for some unknown reason someone wants to continue, you can go to the Dynasty Cafe. I check it out regularly.
@Nevri See, this is where you tripped up. If Illya remembers the bad memories of the Einzbern legacy and lives through them, she becomes like Kuro. Kuro's base is Illya. The additional information is what altered her. In the same way Archer's base is Shirou, but the additional life experience made him different. These two cases are the exact same thing.
The very definition of twins denies your assertion, so I can't really agree. That's all.
nio_neka Apr 17, 2020 10:28PM
sharing is caring
Gonosoi Apr 17, 2020 10:45PM
^In this case productive too
Kuma The Bear Apr 17, 2020 10:50PM
Ara ara~
elevown Apr 18, 2020 12:11AM
^^ Yup- they will probably need to share more than a toffee apple behind a stall soon.
Its really weird they never got any doujins- a pretty popular show with multiple seasons, thats a spin off a much bigger super popular IP - with 2 young girls who are kinda related, making out a lot- and it doesn't get any yuri doujins, even straight up hentai?
last edited at Apr 18, 2020 12:36AM
Blank Mage Apr 18, 2020 2:50AM
Is that mask... Signum, from Lyrical Nanoha A's...?
MagiMaki Apr 18, 2020 3:18AM
It gets lots of hentai with old men, if that helps...
BugDevil Apr 18, 2020 3:27AM
The only people who make hentai of it are obviously disgusting lolicons catering to their rape fetish. Of course there are almost no yuri doujins. The people in it for the loli fanservice are the ones who would do porn of it in the first place, not the ones who actually like Prillya for the story and lore. So they also dont care about the actual relationship dynamics (btw there is nothing between Illya and Kuro. Both of them care more about Miyu in that way).
last edited at Apr 18, 2020 3:27AM
Zen-Pai Apr 18, 2020 3:58AM
Fan service ;]
rokfer Apr 18, 2020 6:57AM
Neh man, the only think people making doujins are catering to their "onee-chan lolicon rape fetish" with Shirou.
People actually don't make any yuri doujins because they don't need it, it's already everywhere in the show. (they prefer to make doujins with Shirou to satisfy their 'lolicons needs')
And even though Illya and Miyu have an obvious Nanoha/Fate relationship, Kuro is so tsun-tsun for Illya in the second half of 2wei (especially in the manga) and so overprotective of her in 3rei that it's obvious she has started to fall for her as well.
The 3 of them form the best yuri triangle ever.
elevown Apr 18, 2020 10:39AM
@BugDevil Got to disagree here- I absolutely think there is something between them, especially from Kuro's side.
we got very little subtext between either of them and Miyu after S1
BugDevil Apr 18, 2020 10:49AM
@elevown Forget about the anime, it's trash.
Anyway, this is going to be too long to fully get into, but the fact of the matter is:
1. Illya and Kuro are in love with Shirou (sorry, I don't care for it either, it's just a thing that was taken over from F/SN, because haha funny). I'm not saying they can't have a crush on several people, it should just be remembered that this will loom over the entire thing forever.
2. Illya only sees Kuro as a little sister. This has never once been contradicted, not even with subtext. Her protectiveness is just part of that.
3. Kuro likes messing with Illya and every single kiss or lewd thing she does in the series is purely for fanservice. Not a single one can be taken seriously. It's her comedic quirk. (It's even more obvious in the anime)
4. Illya and Miyu have endless "hey this is a gay magical girl show too" subtext moments and narratively speaking they are optimal partners (as in they complete each other). Whether you like the chemistry or not, it's how they are written. Kuro is the typical rival foil of "I'm like your opposite mirror image".
5. Miyu is gayer for Illya than a rainbow shooting scissors from its bow. The manga is very heavy on the subtext there.
6. Kuro would rather pick Miyu than the entire world. She has been doing nothing but thinking of and supporting Miyu for all of 3rei. Illya is merely a side-concern.
7. Illya is more restrained in every direction, but she only flips her switch with Miyu (literally).
I don't mind if people ship them or disagree with my opinion, but the above is at the very least as unbiasedly objective as I can see the manga.
last edited at Apr 18, 2020 10:51AM
Nevri Apr 18, 2020 3:30PM
https://youtu.be/fGUXDvzUOPY
elevown Apr 18, 2020 6:48PM
^ Lol- I certainly DO :) Even if it turns out everything I think I see is just in my head. I'll just be glad quite a few others see the same and made some fan art and fiction.
AkinomaHNU Apr 18, 2020 7:00PM
To this day, I still wonder why
Kuro x Illyaisn't tagged asselfcest. I get that Kuro has sort of split off from Illya but they are still technically the same person given that Kuro IS the incarnation of Illya's sealed memories + archer card + mana.last edited at Apr 18, 2020 7:01PM
Nevri Apr 18, 2020 7:11PM
I was wondering too, but she has different personality and because Illya grow up without those memories and Kuro did (as much as you can call it growing up) I guess they more qualify as sisters now than same person.
Sakura Cartelet Apr 18, 2020 10:03PM
Then why no incest tag if they're sisters?
elevown Apr 18, 2020 10:08PM
^Because they are 'kinda' sisters in the same way they are 'kinda' the same person. But Not really either..
Nevri never said they WERE sisters - just 'more like'.
Its a unique thing- it doesn't need cramming into a tag it doesn't really belong in just because its kinda close.
last edited at Apr 18, 2020 10:12PM
Sakura Cartelet Apr 18, 2020 10:20PM
So wait they're sisters but not sisters at the same time? Did I get this right. So if I also got it right then a ship like Mysterious Heroine X (Alter)/Mysterious Heroine X would not be either selfcest or incest then.
BugDevil Apr 19, 2020 1:01AM
It is
Selfcest. You can philosophize all you want, but that's a fact. Same way Shirou and Archer getting it on would be selfcest. Or standard Arturia and Arturia Alter. Whether you wanna tag it that or not, it's just what it is. Their bodies and mind are exactly the same, with the exception of Kuro also having all the bad memories.Nevri Apr 19, 2020 7:21AM
"Their bodies and mind"
Except their mind's are nothing alike. That's the whole issue. If Kuro was just Illya clone with exact same personality then I'd get how it's selfcest (even if the moment she has been cloned they personalities would start to diverge every so slightly, by different experiences), but every since Kuro came to exist, she behaved completely different to Illya, had different personality, goals, reactions. So even if they have the same body, they're 2 different people. Hence more twincest than selfcest (technically they're not sisters, but I bet biologically their bodies probably are exactly the same).
@Sakura Cartelet
Mysterious Heroine X (Alter) and Mysterious Heroine X is another whole can of worms I don't even want to go into.
BugDevil Apr 19, 2020 8:00AM
^Personality is irrelevant. I said mind. She shares all of Illya's memories, except she also remembers the bad stuff. Selfcest has nothing to do with personality. If two people are genetical clones to the last detail then it's selfcest. Kuro wasn't born in a lab or from Irisviel's womb, she is simply a split part of Illya fused with the Archer card. That makes her more indentical to her than any twin could ever be.
My example of Archer and Shirou was supposed to convey this. Archer has a completely different personality and viewpoint on the world from his younger self. He gained new powers and was even physically altered due to overstraining his magic circuits. Yet if thos two got it on it would still be selfcest. Because both of them are Emiya Shirou. Kuro/Chloe is Illya, even if nobody in the story wants to acknowledge it.
elevown Apr 19, 2020 8:25AM
^No its seriously NOT- we ARE our personality- however it was formed. Identical twins are genetically identical you know.. they are NOT the same person. Kuro did not live the same life as Illiya even if she shares her memories - and we dont even know she DOES. Plus she has her own extra memories. And watching from within - if thats what was happening - maybe she was 'asleep' for most of it? - watching through illyas eyes is not the same as being the one doing those things.. IF she was identical in mind she would act and behave exactly like Illiya in all things- yet she is completely different mentally. To be selfcest it literally has to be another YOU - who thinks and acts the same and knows everything you do. imo.
Kuro is no more Illiya than identical twins who grow up together and share many of the same memmories are the same person.
@Sakura Cartelet Nobody said they are and are NOT sisters. They literally are NOT. They can be considered similar to sisters.
Anyways thats enough of going into that, so I'll leave it there since its in the image thread.
last edited at Apr 19, 2020 8:33AM
Nevri Apr 19, 2020 9:34AM
Shirou and Archer are selfcest, because Shirou is literally Archer's younger self. They're from different eras. If events of grail war didn't happen, Shirou was going to eventually become Archer. Meanwhile you can't say the same about Illya and Kuro. They have 2 different personalities and depending who would be the one to live the life, they'd grow up to be different people. They might share the same genetics, but are not the same person. Just like normal real life twins. Unless you're implying our personalities don't matter and twins are the same person.
Honestly the whole my different version/timeline etc. is ultra confusing and not something we really have to deal with irl, but I feel like Kuro and Illya are a pretty clear cut example of twins.
BugDevil Apr 19, 2020 9:38AM
I fear this won't end well if we continue... but I'll give one final statement as well. If for some unknown reason someone wants to continue, you can go to the Dynasty Cafe. I check it out regularly.
@Nevri See, this is where you tripped up. If Illya remembers the bad memories of the Einzbern legacy and lives through them, she becomes like Kuro. Kuro's base is Illya. The additional information is what altered her. In the same way Archer's base is Shirou, but the additional life experience made him different. These two cases are the exact same thing.
The very definition of twins denies your assertion, so I can't really agree. That's all.
last edited at Apr 19, 2020 9:40AM
TheWidow-Sensei Apr 28, 2020 4:04PM
blyatiful