Anyone here who is reading How to Draw an Ellipse? It should be popular. It comes off at first glance as your standard 4 out of 6 stars type of story about a couple who is going to take on this big company. Then everything goes to bloody hell and we have all of the hard-hitting tags. Incest. Cheating. Netorare. Age gap. Blackmail. The last couple of chapters have been interesting. I was completely flabbergast and taken unaware, though the hints were there.

Yeah, recent chapters are insane. You are absolutely right about those "hints", and even with those hints, what happened was like a punch to readers.
Subtle preparation for that punch did not lessen the effect when it happened. It left me speechless, and I realized that I actually sensed it coming but was afraid to think in that direction, deeply suppressing those thoughts. Like, "no way that could happen, don't even think about it!" And then it happened, ha ha

Juha should become a legend. One of my favorite characters ever.

To correct you a little bit, about your hard-hitting tag list;
I would not call it incest, it's pseudo-incest actually.

You are, of course, correct. But I think that if you are adopted at a young age (7) and during most of your life you call someone mother, then it is incest. What else can we call it?

I was left speechless during the last chapters. They were really trying to inflict the maximum amount of emotional and psychological damage on Youngae. How can she possibly go on and live her life when she was just told by Miyeon, whom she considers her soulmate, and whom she has a child with, that she will now be in a relationship with her adopted kid. That you raised together. And she even compared their relationships. I have never felt this amount of tension before while reading a story. I do not quite understand why they hate Youngae so much.

Juha is just the best. But I really wonder how she will take the news. She was used, and now she will be thrown away by her girlfriend of many years. Because Minsung is going to be in a relationship with her mother. The entire thing is so freaking twisted.

Do you have any thoughts about what is going on in the heads of Minsung and Miyeon?

last edited at Feb 16, 2024 8:38AM

You are, of course, correct. But I think that if you are adopted at a young age (7) and during most of your life you call someone mother, then it is incest. What else can we call it?

Wow, I did not think about that! When you present it like this, as the fact, of course you are right!
We can agree that it IS incest, even if I think that Minsung never felt or saw Miyeon as the mother figure.
And, now when the cards are open, neglecting Miyeon's passed out biological daughter (for me) was more than rivalry between daughters.
What do you think about it?

I was left speechless during the last chapters. They were really trying to inflict the maximum amount of emotional and psychological damage on Youngae. How can she possibly go on and live her life when she was just told by Miyeon, whom she considers her soulmate, and whom she has a child with, that she will now be in a relationship with her adopted kid. That you raised together. And she even compared their relationships. I have never felt this amount of tension before while reading a story. I do not quite understand why they hate Youngae so much.

I started to like Youngae when Juha met her for the first time, eye to eye.
Juha was impressed by her personality and her beauty, and I was like:
"If Juha admires her, there must be something great about this woman!"
Before it I was indifferent to Youngae, but I never hated her.
Then I started to pay more attention to her and I think Juha's impression was spot on.
Maybe people hate her because she is rich heiress, giving to everyone "a spoiled child" vibes who was born with silver spoon and has it all.
But this is exactly what troubles Youngae, she wants to get all what belongs to her by birthright by her own merit. She is really something.

Also, on the birthday party at Miyeon's house, I noticed some flirting energy between her and Juha. It was so subtle, but I think there is some charge, some sparcle between them. I feel more attraction than between Juha and Minsung, or Youngae and Miyeon. Do you have the same impression or it's only me?

Juha is just the best. But I really wonder how she will take the news. She was used, and now she will be thrown away by her girlfriend of many years. Because Minsung is going to be in a relationship with her mother. The entire thing is so freaking twisted.

I'm currently on chapter 97, and there is a cliffhanger. I won't say anything in a case if you are still not there.

Do you have any thoughts about what is going on in the heads of Minsung and Miyeon?

I think Miyeon's words: "I lacked both the words and rationale to refuse her" , are describing what is going in their heads.
I think they both jumped in fire of passion, leaving all reason and logic aside.
Partly I answered your question about Minsung and her feelings, above in this comment. This is the moment when she finally acted up on her long lasting feelings.
The wick was long, and there's a lot fuel. Many other people will be caught or burnt in flames of that fire. Passion IS fire.
What are your thoughts about what is happening in their minds?

Honestly, I think that was one of the big clues about how messed up the relationship between Minsung and Miyeon is. The entire thing is really weird from my perspective. Minsung left a young child who could be possibly dying alone. She did not even remotely care about her or do something to help her. This was a person she grew up with. This was the person who called her sister. That is not normal behavior. As far as I could tell, she was envious of the attention Miyeon was giving her. I guess her logic was that if Hyunwoo was dead she would get all of the attention.

But the really strange part was the reaction of Miyeon. She was almost indifferent to the entire thing. She was ready to forgive right away, when she should have gotten Minsung some sort of help. Youngae was reacting with anger and acting like a mother. Sure, she was already aware that Minsung was lusting after Miyeon, and that influenced her anger and will to drive her out of their home. But the entire incident should have provoked a bigger reaction from Miyeon. What kind of mother ignores that one of her kids left the other for dead?

And that leads me to my point. Minsung is obsessed with Miyeon. She wants to be the only person who gets any sort of love from her. And this is probably due to her upbringing, where she was abused, and how Minsung saved her from all of that. And she might be autistic? I kind of get that vibe in any case. But her feelings are all warped and confused. The only person who matters for her is Miyeon. And Miyeon is not acting like an adult, she is instead enabling her. But why is Miyeon just as obsessed with Minsung. She is willing to do anything to have her in her life. She is willing to sacrifice any other relationship. And I am still left with one big question mark to as why that is the case? Is it fear of being left alone? She was after all left by Youngae once, and I think that really fucked her up. Because I do not get the impression that she was romantically or psychically in love with Minsung. In chapter 93 she was more like "if this is what it takes then why not." This did not indicate any sort of big longing or dormant desire.

I was, like you, pretty indifferent to Youngae. I did not understand why she left Miyeon and got married. It is still a mystery to me. I think I might have missed something. Do you know why? As they lived together and had a child for like 10 years? So why did she all of the sudden leave? But I really feel for her in this situation. I unfortunately read some spoilers that she will be mentally ill later on due to the stress, and probably a broken heart.

There was without doubt mutual flirting between Youngae and Juha at the birthday party.

I find it hard to grasp the age of the characters in the different chapters. Do you know how old these people are supposed to be?

I have also read until chapter 97. I really dread and look forward to the next chapter. I really want to see the reaction of Juha when she learns about what has happened. It must be such a kick in the stomach. I got so sad when I read that she got a cold in the last chapter, as she was up all night waiting for Minsung. The night Minsung was having sex with her own mother. Poor girl.

I think I have in part answered your question. I think for Minsung it is some sort of unhealthy love. She really loves Miyeon. So for her this must be some sort of culmination of all of her desires. What Juha meant for her, if anything, well that is what I want to know. For Miyeon as well, it must be some sort of love. But what kind? I mean she is sleeping with her own child. That would normally be taboo for most people. So, I would really like to see some sort of internal monologue. I cannot believe her when she says her relationship with Minsung is just as the relationship she had with Youngae. But in both cases I think it is a very unhealthy love and this is the actions of two people who are desperate for something, but they are looking in all the wrong places. And I hope they realize that as the story progresses.

I find your point of view about it being dormant passion to be interesting though. Why do you think that is the case?

A bit unrelated though. But what is Miyeon supposed to say to Hyunwoo? Minsung used to be your sister. But she is now your new mother? That is really weird.

last edited at Feb 16, 2024 3:21PM

I think Minsung is vengeful character. She likes to listen heavy metal, and it could be the indicator that she has a lot suppressed aggression in her. Losing parents at young age, being abused, having a powerful Youngae as her rival, etc.
It all can cause a lot of smoldering rage under the surface.

I see all of this as power-play between her and Youngae, and it started a long time ago.
Ignoring the passed out daughter wasn't simple seeking attention from Miyeon. From my perspective Minsung just redirected her frustration toward Youngae to someone weaker. Her true attitude could be "Why you all just don't disappear? I don't care if you disappear!"
And she would have Miyeon for herself.

In that time she wasn't strong enough to fight Youngae.
Now she is strong enough, she takes her woman, she is taking her company (as security and with her hacking skills she can do whatever she wants).

Now, about role of Miyeon in all of this mess.
I think she simply surrendered. From what reasons, maybe it's to early to
say. Maybe she is just tired. Maybe she also feels vengeful toward Youngae for marrying that guy (for public image and for making her goals easier to reach).
Husband is "the puppet king" in this situation, and he is aware of it
(-I hope this answers your question above, why she did marry that guy-)

There IS obsessiveness between Minsung and Miyeon. You noticed it and pointed it clearly.
Maybe Miyeon waited all this time for Minsung to act like she acted, and her: "If you need this, I won't reject you" could be just projection?
I think she was aware that she can't ever make the move, but it's obvious that she thought about it (she did not see Minsung as daughter, but etic stopped her). Then, Minsung acted, and she just surrendered to her without words.

Actually, first who pointed out their mother-daughter relationship was Juha, at the birthday party, and Minsung was like "shut up!"
Before it, I never felt them as mother-daughter.
I think they had a strong connection from the beginning, more than words can express. More than connection Mother-daughter.
I was surprised by the turn of events, but not so shocked.
I hope this explains why I said it's about dormant passion.

What you asked about their ages, I think their gap is something between 10 and 15 years max. Lets say that Miyeon just graduated and started to work. So, she was in first half of her 20's. And Minsung could be about 10-11 years old child in that time. They actually don't have a large age gap. I'd say max 15 years, but I think it's less. Maybe 12-13.

Thanks for opening this discussion. Your insights are very helpful to me for fulfilling some gaps. I hope mine could be helpful to you too.
Of course, you don't have to agree with some of my thoughts (it's only about my impressions, I might be wrong and I don't mind if you confront me and give me different arguments).
If I forgot something I'll add it in other comment.

Btw, I did not use covering spoilers. I think people who did not read would not be interested in this topic, and anyway they wouldn't know what is this all about. We are almost at the 100th chapter now.
And your intro was enough for those who did not read but might be interested to start reading.
If there is a problem with not using covers for spoilers, I'll change.

last edited at Feb 16, 2024 5:39PM

I want to say that I appreciate your perspective. I hope you will participate further in the discussion as more chapters are published. And I hope more people will join us. There are so many smart people on dynasty and I really want to hear their perspectives. If anyone is wondering if they want to read the story. I say go for it. This story is, in my opinion, exceptionally well-written. The story has plenty of humor, witty commentary, drama, engaging characters, and super toxic people and situations.

I think I have to read the story again. I do not trust my own memory, and I think I have missed a lot. But when I think about it, there are plenty of scenes that are very relevant for the discussion.

I think you hit the nail on its head when you called her vengeful. I almost want to edit the picture of the Somali pirate saying I am the captain now with the head of Minsung. There is this scene between Minsung and Youngae in the past, where Youngae is saying why are you (Minsung) acting like I am the other woman. I think from the perspective of Minsung she was the other woman. This is her vengeance for taking her woman. The chapter where she walks into the room and performance the most extreme Netorare I have ever seen in a yuri story was just rage made form. Your woman, my mother, is now mine. I am in charge. You will do as I say. You will never touch her again. You will now hire me as security consultant. We can blackmail you whenever, so there is nothing you can do. That was pure rage and vengeance given form.

Thank you. I'll keep participate in this discussion, of course.
And I would like too, if more people join us.

You are right, the story indeed is exceptionally well-written.
Imagine how excellent was build-up when we all were caught speechless after 90 chapters!!! (and it was nothing out of the plot-line! It was coming so slowly and so subtle but we were caught anyway, ha ha)

I'm joining you for telling people "go for it" (if someone is intrigued by frightened with tags)
The story is not typical dark story (you already described it very well, in your comment above). And does not have explicit content. It's actually good balance with heavy-hitting tags, as you called that combo.

It's worth reading just for Juha (author said Juha is the only character there with superpowers and she is her own dream girl type. If you can remember it, it was some extra page (like "ID cards" of characters) and it was interesting and funny.
People could be tricked at first glance thinking she is typical "idiot" character. She's not at all.
I would like to see her and Youngae together (maybe not as the endgame, but now, considering Youngae's situation, someone like Juha would be good for her. Maybe not immediately, but in next 5-10 chapters from now?)
Do you have some thoughts about it? (we both agreed that there was some flirting and chemistry between them, so I'm interested would you agree or disagree with me in this case)

Even if you did not make the pic of Minsung pirate your description was enough for me to imagine it and made me laugh.

And, I also think that I should reread all again. Now we have expanded perspective and maybe there were some clues which we did not notice at first, so, rereading soon is my next task, he he

Before I answer. Have you read the raws? I have. And I have thoughts, and many, so many, questions.

I did not read raws, I don't speak Korean.
But if you ask because it is about Juha and Youngae, obviously I already saw it coming and if you wish to confirm it won't be a spoiler to me (just don't give me a details or reveal too much).
If those questions are about future events I would not know how to answer them, anyway. So, you decide how much I would be able to follow your comment in this moment.

Ok. Good to know. In that case I will try not to spoil anything. I must say that I am surprised how incestuous the author is keeping the story. Juha and Youngae. They couldn't try and keep it out of the family for once. I also think they are strangely cute together. The author was actually hinting their attraction from the very beginning. This author is really good at setting things up.

But I do want to see both of those characters happy. And I really can't see any scenario where those two will have a happy ending together. Youngae is still married and has the same problems that doomed her relationship with Miyeon. She still is not willing, or able, to sacrifice her position in society and the company to be an out and open lesbian. So, I feel like that is just setting the story up for further heartache. Moreover, I do think that Minsung and Miyeon will try and sabotage any sort of relationship they might have.

I started to read the story again. It has been over 1 year since I read the chapters at the start. So, I see that I had forgotten so many things. There are so many scenes almost scream that something is up. I do agree with you now about Miyeon and Minsung. Miyeon did not act like a mother. They way she was touching Minsung and talking about how she is the one she cares about the most was a dead giveaway now that you know what is coming. I might be overanalyzing. But I do think the author was hinting that Miyeon felt some sort of attraction. She was in any case hellbent on removing Juha from Minsung`s life and being the only person in her life. So, they are both pretty weird and their relationship is super unhealthy. In fact, I would say so far Miyeon is the closes the story gets to an antagonist. She was supposed to be the adult in the room.

Are you telling me discreetly that Juha and Yungae sharing same surname isn't just coincidence? (Yeah, I noticed this "small" detail, he he)
Hm. I think that Juha mentioned something about her family on the birthday party, something very vague like "having but not having them" (she was talking with the bio daughter of Miyeon about family relations)

So, now I see that Juha and Youngae could be cousins and I understood your subtle hints.
I can see from where it's coming. And don't worry, you did not spoil it to me. I would not understand your words if I did not already notice this same surname detail.

About Miyeon and Minsung's relationship, I think there is something what we don't know (yet).
I think now that Miyeon decided (consciously or subconsciously) to have biological daughter that she can separate clearly her motherly feelings and feel what she felt for Minsung without being internally confused.
I'm not saying that she was attracted to the child-Minsung.
But there IS something in their connection what we call sick.
I'm not sure what it is really, but I hope it will be revealed to us that we can understand.

Oh sorry. No. I did not mean it like that. I more meant how they come together after being abandoned by their partners. It comes off as somewhat unhealthy. But I do think they are very adorable together and they are the couple who show the most amount of chemistry together.

I think it is very interesting how their relationship is perceived. I have seen a lot of comments, both in English and Korean, where people express disgust over their relationship. They are not daughter and mother by blood, but Minsung and Miyeon are widely seen as mother and daughter. Both by the readers and other people in the story. Both Juha and Youngae see their relationship in that light. But we know that Minsung never saw their relationship like that and was offended when Juha called Miyeon her mother. But she was adopted when she was 7, and she lived with Miyeon until she was in her 20s. So, for over 13 years their relationship was something like that. When I see the chapters where we see Miyeon and Minsung as a kid, I only see a parent with her child. She clearly acts like a mother figure. But then when Minsung gets older something changes and their relationship no longer can be defined in that manner. I hope that gets explored further. As it is pretty strange. But like I said before, when their relationship was redefined, there was some sort of mutual attraction, that was both physical and emotional. Miyeon did not see Minsung as her child, but rather as her partner. Like you say. I want to learn more about why that happened. I really wish we would get some sort of perspective on how they define their relationship.

As I am reading the story again, I must say that I have problems with understanding the relationship between Miyeon and Youngae. Miyeon clearly hates Youngae, and several times makes remarks about how she hates her relationship with Youngae. I think her being abandoned by Youngae must really have done a number on her psyche. The sad thing is that if she and Youngae communicated better a lot of pain could have been avoided.

last edited at Feb 20, 2024 10:23AM

Oh sorry. No. I did not mean it like that. I more meant how they come together after being abandoned by their partners. It comes off as somewhat unhealthy. But I do think they are very adorable together and they are the couple who show the most amount of chemistry together.

Ah, then I misinterpreted and I'm glad that I did.
It would be too much. First those incestuous allusions about Miyeon and Minsung, and then Juha and Youngae as relatives? Really too much!
I better be wrong about that surname.
And yeah, they are so cute together. For me it's such delicacy finding yuri works where authors are able to "draw" that chemistry between characters. It's phenomena. I admire those authors.

I think it is very interesting how their relationship is perceived. I have seen a lot of comments, both in English and Korean, where people express disgust over their relationship. They are not daughter and mother by blood, but Minsung and Miyeon are widely seen as mother and daughter. Both by the readers and other people in the story. Both Juha and Youngae see their relationship in that light. But we know that Minsung never saw their relationship like that and was offended when Juha called Miyeon her mother. But she was adopted when she was 7, and she lived with Miyeon until she was in her 20s. So, for over 13 years their relationship was something like that. When I see the chapters where we see Miyeon and Minsung as a kid, I only see a parent with her child. She clearly acts like a mother figure. But then when Minsung gets older something changes and their relationship no longer can be defined in that manner. I hope that gets explored further. As it is pretty strange. But like I said before, when their relationship was redefined, there was some sort of mutual attraction, that was both physical and emotional. Miyeon did not see Minsung as her child, but rather as her partner. Like you say. I want to learn more about why that happened. I really wish we would get some sort of perspective on how they define their relationship.

I can understand your points clearly and I can understand how other people perceive it and why.
I'm not sure am I not able to understand fully family relations because of having a toxic parents, or it's about my impression from the beginning, that I could not see them as mother and daughter. I must admit that I'm completely indifferent toward those incestuous allusions in their case.
But I do understand people's POV and yours, I just don't feel anything what would move me and cause ANY reactions.
At least until we get the whole perspective. Then I hope something will move me to finally react and feel something more than indifference.

As I am reading the story again, I must say that I have problems with understanding the relationship between Miyeon and Youngae. Miyeon clearly hates Youngae, and several times makes remarks about how she hates her relationship with Youngae. I think her being abandoned by Youngae must really have done a number on her psyche. The sad thing is that if she and Youngae communicated better a lot of pain could have been avoided.

I think that I had same impression (still not rereading), but I remember that Miyeon always seemed to me reserved to Youngae, almost annoyed by her. I remember her wearing same clothes (no efforts to look her best for their dates), so, I always felt it onesided. Like that Miyeon wanted something else and something more. But she never refused Youngae.
There is something else in Miyeon, it's not abandonment of Youngae.
It goes deeper and earlier. It could be something from her childhood.
It could even be connected with her mother, or some other female from her past who was close to her or even related by blood.

last edited at Feb 20, 2024 9:33PM

Has anyone read the last two chapters?

It's truly heartbreaking to see Youngae in such despair. She's deeply hurt by the thought that Miyeon and Minsung could hate her. I'm not sure what her plan was, but it appears to have failed miserably. It's evident that she was desperate to reunite her family, even though it's strange that she cares just as much about Minsung and Miyeon at this point. I suppose they were some kind of family, which makes it even sadder knowing what's to come.

Even after reading the raws and revisiting the story, I'm still struggling to understand the timeline and the relationship between Youngae and Miyeon. There's something about it that just doesn't add up. I can't comprehend why Youngae had to leave for five years, only to resume their relationship for another five years if Miyeon despises her.

Upon reading the story again, my perspective on certain things has shifted. I noticed that Miyeon was essentially, albeit unintentionally, grooming Minsung. She manipulated her into believing that she was the only one she could trust, and encouraged her to remain dependent like a child. It's incredibly twisted. I can't believe I forgot it. In my eyes, Miyeon has now become the main antagonist of the story. I can only imagine the damage she must have inflicted on a vulnerable child like Minsung. Taking in a child who lost her parents, suffered abuse from foster parents for years, and then molding her into an emotional crutch that can never leave her—that's deeply disturbing. Miyeon's actions demonstrate a severe lack of mental stability.

I agree with your assessment of the relationship between Miyeon and Youngae. It's clear that Youngae was constantly working to benefit Miyeon, whether it was helping her get into the PDH program, securing the adoption of Minsung, securing high-paying positions for her, or simply giving her undivided attention. Meanwhile, Miyeon appeared to be merely going along with the flow. She seemed resentful and distant towards Youngae, which suggests she resented the significant power imbalance in their relationship.

last edited at Mar 3, 2024 5:51AM

I'm still in.
But now so many things are happening at once, flashbacks, present, past, all intertwined.
Let's see more how situation develops.
I really don't know what to say for now, except there was that scene with Miyeon brushing almost uttered name of Juha from her lips.
It was hilarious!

And Juha all of sudden appearing in yoke, ready for "the inquisition" !

I'm really enjoying those little details about characters and author's sense of humor.

New chapter out!

I find the characters Minsung and Miyeon fascinating to read about, but they are truly unpleasant people. The fact that they can behave as if nothing is wrong highlights their lack of empathy, especially Miyeon, who seems devoid of normal human emotions. Let me provide an example to illustrate why she is so reprehensible. Besides the incest, child abuse, cheating and various of other things you will learn about in due time.

Miyeon and Youngea began dating in high school when they were around 16 years old, as seen in chapter 50. Typically, high school in Korea ends when students are 17 or 18. They continued their relationship until Miyeon met Minsung during her master's degree internship, which Youngea helped her secure. Miyeon would have been approximately 23 years old at that time, while Minsung was 7 years, as depicted in chapter 64. Youngea and Miyeon rescued Minsung from her abusive foster family, but it was primarily Youngea who made it happen. It would not have been possible without her, as she had the money and connections. They all moved to the USA and lived together for 6 years, as detailed in chapter 53.

Youngea leaves Miyeon while pregnant with their child, which is a terrible thing and a poorly constructed plotline, but let's set that aside for now. She is absent for 5 years before returning. This means that by that point, Youngea and Miyeon had been a couple for 13 years, while Minsung had referred to them both as mothers for 6 years. Upon her return, Minsung harbors resentment towards her out of jealousy. Despite this, Youngea and Miyeon reconnect and continue their relationship for another 5 years. Minsung stay in their house for the next 2 years. So, for 8 years Youngea was raising her.

So, Youngea and Miyeon have been a couple for approximately 18 years, during which time they had a daughter and adopted another. Despite their long history together, Miyeon still chose to hurt Youngea in the most painful way possible. That makes her evil in my book.

Woah, I was so close counting approximately from my mind, guessing their age gap as max 15 years (I thought Minsung was 10-11 yo in that time, not 7-8 years, and their gap actually was 12-13 years. It explains the mistake)

I'm very curious about Miyeon's background story...

Now is going to be interesting to see what is going to happen at the meeting. It looks to me like Juha is a ticking bomb, the weapon which
Youngae plans to use. We'll see...

New chapter today! It's going to be exciting.

Absolutely, I'm curious to learn more about Miyeon too. At a surface level, I understand her character. She was deeply hurt and traumatized when Youngea left. But most people tend to move on with their lives after a breakup. They don't go out and groom a young child as an emotional crutch and later as a girlfriend. There are plenty of other ways to meet people – bars, dating apps and things like that.

But here's the thing: for such a great story – and it really is fantastic – the relationship between Youngea and Miyeon doesn't quite add up upon closer inspection. There's a sort of cognitive dissonance going on. Miyeon despises Youngea but can't seem to move on, while Youngea loves Miyeon but ends things because she wants it all and is greedy. She wants both the company and Miyeon. Yet, despite her actions, all Youngea can do is think about Miyeon. However, when they finally reunite after 5 years apart, Youngea doesn't even treat her that well.

It's clear that the author aimed to create a messy and complicated relationship where both Youngea and Miyeon share the blame. However, it could have been executed better. Individually, both Youngea and Miyeon are compelling characters with strong storylines. But when their relationship takes center stage, it becomes the weakest aspect of the narrative, in my opinion.