I appreciate you responding to me with good points and calmly. I was hoping just to challenge a few ideas here and wasn't actually aiming to upset anyone or imply that this manga be removed. I think any manga deserves to be on dynasty. I especially like manga that encourage art and are respectful of the human form. This one is pretty good about it, though I still have my opinions on it... And they're just that, my opinions.

I personally feel like this manga fits on this site because it's more so about the artistic appreciation of the feminine form rather than having a focus on heterosexuality. There likely will be romantic elements in the future, but that doesn't seem to be the main theme of this story as of yet, so I wouldn't write it off as just being some het romance thing and nothing more than that. The story is as much, if not more so about women, than it is about Haro.

I don't necessarily disagree here. I also think any manga should be on this site personally. I'm not sure I got that across well in my first point. I also love manga that appreciates art and the feminine form. Or the male form. It's just that I also agreed with why others might not like it

Because he finds women beautiful. He's not out here tying women down and forcing people to do things against their will. I very likely wouldn't be here reading this if that were the case.

You're right that his actions are because he finds women beautiful. But it doesn't change how pushy he can be with his desire to paint the female body, and how uncomfortable that can be for women, especially when he's showing nude paintings to them in public. I think art is beautiful, especially art that expresses the human body in its entirety. But society doesn't always agree and nudity can make people uncomfortable because of it. I agree that he doesn't force people to take action against their will but he does force people to look at nude images against their will. This is the forceful part that bothers me. But I actually like the ideas the manga presents: Art is a form of expression and isn't inherently sexual. It's just that this manga does so in its own bubble, ignoring what reality might think.

This feels like you're projecting your own discomfort onto the characters, here. That's the thing about tags, if a guy's aesthetic attraction to women is making you feel uncomfortable, you don't have to force yourself to engage with it.

I'm both projecting my own discomfort and seeing the discomfort of the women he's approaching in the manga. And I agree about tags. I will say I'm not forcing myself to engage with it, I like the ideas behind it and enjoy the art. I'm expressing my discomfort to highlight why I think others might not enjoy it. That criticism might come off as unfair because I didn't balance it with the praise I have for it. I will add that while I am projecting, that discomfort is also a reality for many women who have to deal with men forcing similar things on women publicly. D*ck pics are a thing. While I think this manga does it tastefully and the MC isn't wrong to appreciate art and want to show it to others, he does ignore their discomfort to do so. And that's a common thing in reality. I'm not the only person who's felt that.

I don't understand the purpose of this point, other than to be presumptuous of hypothetical strangers' intentions. Even if this were true, though, and people are primarily motivated by sexual attraction, why is that bad? Feeling various kinds of attraction isn't bad, or shameful, or degrading in and of itself, it's what people do with their attraction to other people that counts the most. Are they still respectful of that person, or no? Do they respect boundaries and people telling them "no?" That's what counts. Slip ups are fine too, so long as no lasting damage occurred and people (or fictional characters in this case are shown to) learn to do better.

He respects boundaries in so much as that if they say no to being his model he backs off... Sometimes. In chapter 3 that's not the case as he continues to draw despite the discomfort of the other person. I agree that what people do with their attraction counts the most. In the case of our MC I see not much fault with his behaviors with only having some mild discomfort about small things. I didn't get that across well either. Slips aren't always fine as they can lead to lasting damage, especially if it's confronting someone with trauma. The subject the boy focuses on is something that can be hard on some women. This fictional character is a good person, and I like them. But I can like someone and feel discomfort with their actions. It is, ultimately, fiction though so being too critical isn't fair. I like the ideas behind it and the art, and it does a decent job of relaying what it wants. As for sexual attraction being a motivator, that's not bad. I disagree with puritanical ideas about sex and related behaviors. But you and I aren't in the majority and expressing that idea by trying to be pushy about it does more harm than good. In the real world. This manga is fine and respectful and I like that.

I've never seen Haro not take no for an answer nor force anything onto anyone thus far. Maybe I'm forgetting a specific instance though, so feel free to let us know which chapter(s) this happens in. Over all though, it feels like this critique stems more from a bias towards perceived cis male sexuality. There are more objectively egregious manga series on this site, and the rationale that it's all okay because it's fiction and fiction is a safe home to explore taboo without causing harm to real people is solid and one I personally subscribe to, but this should be extended to non-yuri manga as well.

In chapter 3 he continues to draw despite the feelings of the other person. He's doing it with good intentions and his result is great, but it's still ignoring the other person's boundaries. There's also any time he asks women to be his model while showing nude art to them. He's trying to show how art is an expression of beauty and not inherently perverted but he should know that his behaviors make women uncomfortable yet he persists in doing it. Asking women to be his model is fine, showing the nudes without their consent is not so much. But this manga handles it respectfully enough and his character has good intentions. I like Haro.

Any manga that genuinely appreciates the feminine form should have the potential to be welcomed on this site. Tags exist, so people can avoid them if they're strictly here for yuri, but as a sapphic woman that enjoys the feminine form in much the same way as Haro does (though I'm not exactly an artist), I greatly appreciate this series being here. I likely wouldn't have come across it otherwise, since this site is my main haunt for manga these days.

I welcome any manga to this site, especially ones that focus on art. And I agree, enjoying the feminine form should be celebrated. As an artist I encourage these types of manga. I'm just vaguely uncomfortable with the MCs behavior and how quick some people are to romanticize it without questioning some of the real world results. And tags are there for a reason, to allow people to quickly decide to read or avoid something. I like to challenge my ideas and read things outside my comfort zone, which led me here. And I'm glad I did because it's a good manga that I had only a few criticisms of.
Ultimately, I agree with you but didn't properly express myself with the first post. Thank you again for your comment and feedback.

While I appreciate that translators are willing to work hard on manga that might not fit the audience where they're posting, and this translator's work is amazing, I can understand why this isn't exactly popular here.
The most obvious reason is that it's not yuri as other people have mentioned. The tag system makes it easy to identify things that people might not want to read so that's fair, but posting a het manga on a site that predominantly deals with yuri isn't going to get you a lot of views and comments. I'm one of the people that likes to explore different genres but I come here specifically to read yuri. I'm not opposed to it being here because I think it's great that Dynasty is branching out, but I'm still hesitant as there are plenty of other places that host het manga. And plenty of het manga too.
The second reason might just be my personal opinion but the main character is uncomfortably pushy about their desire to 'paint beauty' and believing that everyone should be comfortable viewing or being nude. And he specifically targets women.
Some individuals in here romanticize his behavior as being dedicated and pure, but the reality is that he ignores boundaries, harasses people, and expect others to have his same values. He makes people uncomfortable with topics that are s*xually explicit (in society, not necessarily in art. Or even in his art). He might not view it that way but others do. And he doesn't care how uncomfortable he makes people with it. This is played off for comedic effect sometimes here (and often in other manga) which bothers me a lot too. Romanticizing this behavior, like the manga and some comments do, encourages the idea that we should be accepting of everything everyone else does no matter how uncomfortable that makes us.
Plus in the real world that 'purity' that's exhibited by this character is so uncommon that I'd be surprised to meet someone like this who doesn't have ulterior motives.
As much as I love art and beauty, and beautiful women and men in art, consent is an important factor in this type of endeavor. The main character has trouble with consent a lot. As many manga protagonists of his nature do.

I’m wondering how many people feel compelled to go into the comments of mystery stories in order to say, “OMG, you guys—murder is wrong! Don’t do this at home!” Or, “Detectives need to do things by the book, and not dole out justice by their own tough code of the streets! This is not right!”

And maybe waiting to see how Yoh’s actions are treated in subsequent chapters might yield a clue as to the author’s intentions.

Well... It would depend on how the manga treated the murder and/or how they treated the investigation. I'm sure plenty of people take offense to manga portraying murder as okay, or manga portraying a detective skipping the rules to take revenge or accuse someone without evidence.

I've always hated this attitude of "it's fiction, don't criticize the bad parts". It's a lazy persons way of trying to ignore any discussion that could be had on what makes the fiction bad, or what makes it good. It's the same kind of attitude that let so many LGBT stories in history force the "gays can't be happy because it's immoral" narrative. The Hays Code was successful because those who weren't affected were apathetic, and those who could be affected were just glad there was any kind of representation. Fiction is allowed to be criticized, and using an reductio ad absurdum argument to try to justify telling people to shut up is just crude and lazy.

last edited at May 4, 2022 2:27PM

They can act a little childish sometimes, but at least they ARE written like adults with a childish side. Nothing more annoying than a couple who's in college or who are working adults flip-flopping around about physical intimacy in private.

Every chapter is a bit of cute fluff, and I love it.

Well, that's one solution to co-dependence.

So Shion took away Nozomi's boyfriend, and that's why Nozomi is angry on Shion. That's my guess.

Nah... The girl in this panel isn't Shion. She never "took away Nozomi's boyfriend". Do the rest of the things she did seem kinda scummy, and without further details look like she took advantage at best, and raped her at worst? Yeah, it does seem that way. So, while I don't agree with this one conclusion, I do agree that I've seen this in the other Yuri and I think I might be out.

I made this account a while ago and I'm not even sure if I've ever posted in here, but this particular manga strikes all the red flags of older "coming of age" yuri mangas and it made me want to comment... And by that I mean it seems like it might lean heavily on the "it's just youth" and move them on to "real" relationships later in life.... This, in my opinion, is probably queerbaiting, and I'll try to show why I think it is.

The manga centers on "cultured high school girl" Sahoko and "spontaneous high school girl" Aoi.
A "punch-drunk love story" unfolds as they spend their fleeting youth in high school

Punch-drunk love refers to confusion. The phrase "fleeting youth" also doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in a good resolution to this story. This in-and-of itself doesn't qualify it as queerbaiting, but there's oh so much more

Here are some of the red flags from the manga itself:

In chapter zero, on the double page we get this beauty of a line: "Not lovers, but also not friends", I common cliche used to define ambigious sexuality within fiction when the author doesn't want to outright say that they're gay.

In chapter 1, before the kiss we get this lovely gem from Sahoko: "Don't hate me please. This isn't ME. " Which seems to indicate some confusion about her behavior despite a desire to kiss Aoi. This is fine, but it can be used to later push the character into the "I was emotional and didn't understand the impact of my behavior" if you add other factors, which this manga does in spades. We also get Aoi making a face of general disgust (at least it looks that way to me)

In chapter 2 we're treated to the traditional Sahoko immediately scrambles to tell the girl she deliberately kissed that she's not gay. We get several pages of her agonizing over this, and thinking she'll be hated because of it. This is often used to reflect a distancing of the author from the idea of yuri being ok, most times in the past to keep censors from changing their intended story, but in more recent times it's used to give plausible deniability later when fans are upset that a pairing didn't turn out the way they want. This is also reflected with the phrase "a youthful transgression", so if that phrase pops up, just know it's a nail in the coffin.

In chapters 3 and 4 we're given the old "It's just friendship!" bit where the two main characters develop their deep friendship and discover why they want to be great friends . I expect this to continue on until we get to the "what are my real feelings" arc where will discover that no one really knows... because the author's gotta drag this crap out

In chapter five is where the hammer (in my opinion) really comes down. Aside from the really juxtaposed pages where we go from casual high school chats about nothing straight in to the college years? WTF? Why do this? She also says it's been several years but wasn't she a first or second year in high school? Doesn't that mean she should be either in her last year of college, or graduated? Unless of course she went for a masters... but still we get this gem: "I want to talk to Aoi, and ask her. Was that love, or friendship?" meaning there's STILL no resolution to the feelings, and the ambiguity is definitely something deliberate intended by the author

So these are the reasons I think the author will end with a "bittersweet" friendship but not friendship ending. Leaving either most questions unanswered or forcing both girls in to het relationships. I honestly don't think this will end with the two of them even entertaining the idea of a relationship together again.

Finally some last notes:

I hope this story doesn't go with your typical "girls can't be together/being gay is just a phase" cliche...
...it is being so overused in yuri manga that it became just boring and annoying.

It's overused in the past because many authors/mangaka couldn't outright state that a character could be gay. The ones where it wasn't vague but overt were considered groundbreaking at the time. It's not so overused now, but some authors/mangaka like to lean on it for two (these are purely conjecture on my part) main reasons: 1. to draw in a wider audience with possible gay characters without driving away a portion of the audience that's offended by it, thereby using queerbaiting to make it more popular. Or 2. To create unnecessary drama where otherwise things could go smoothly because the author doesn't understand that even normal relationships can have drama without "but I'm not teh gei!".

I think people should put aside their set prejudices and give it a chance.

Prejudices are prejudices because they have no basis in reality. People aren't prejudiced here when they say they're worried that the manga could end up being just a "it's just youth!" story and end with both characters bouncing out of the romance with some cliche stereotypes. It happened A LOT in the past, and it still happens today.

(I'm sure she gay)

I'm sure she's written to be implied that she might be, but I doubt the author intends to close the story with any actual resolution to that idea.

I definitely could be wrong about all this and I hope I am. But it just strikes me as odd that there's questions even at the tail end of chapter 5.

last edited at Apr 9, 2020 1:30PM