i definitely think that maya is a trans woman. just because the manga hasn't acknowledged it yet doesn't mean that they won't, and even if it doesn't make a huge deal out of it that's great too. trans people exist and should still be featured in stories that don't revolve around the fact that they are trans! they have other character traits as well yanno

and with ch13 i think it's even more plausible. she was basically disowned and cut off by her parents, wasn't she? i bet it's because she came out as trans. it might've been because she came out as lesbian but there is still a strong possibility that she is trans. all of her flashback depictions follow a realistic timeline of her transitioning after high school, with her growing her hair out and wearing more feminine-looking clothing. and i still think that hidesuke not recognizing her is a big sign. and the "maya is trans" theory would make hidesuke bisexual as well! not very far-fetched in a story where the three main characters are all basically confirmed bisexual

The implication that Hidesuke is bisexual is only possible if you are assuming Maya was a man...which is a grossly inaccurate understanding of trans* people.

Hidesuke is attracted to women, which would make him het. If maya is trans*, then regardless of appearance, she was never a man. I don't want to get into it much more beyond that cause forum arguments on dynasty-not my cup of tea-but we gotta be more accurate in our understanding of gender identity and sexual orientation.

Also this chapter made me go back and reread the series cause it's been 9 months. I forgot how much I love Maya. I just want m&m to realize their undying gayness for each other. Please? Thanks.

Assumptions aren't science. Assuming porn accurately reflects the actual sex lives of lesbians is like watching WWE RAW and thinking you have insight into the martial arts.

This. THIS.

I've been a lesbian since I was a gestating zygote. Haven't entertained any type of sexual/romantic relationship with a man in years (and I mean before I accepted the fact that I'm not straight). And I watch straight porn; straighter the better. Can't stand lesbian porn actually. Haven't even tried watching it for years.

But I love women, pursue them wholeheartedly and can pretty much only imagine myself in a sexual/romantic partnership with another woman.

I'm sure if someone looked at my porn stache (pun intended) you'd probably think I was a straight middle aged white guy.

But maybe I'm just the outlier outside of the bell curve (cause cervix stimulation is amazing and it's much easier for me to have an orgasm from intra-vaginal stimulation rather than clit stimulation with a partner, etc, etc, etc).

Also I've been an emotional wreck all day from Prince dying and this doujin definitely helped. Thank you to everyone who made this a thing.

Also for anyone into astrology E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E in this manhwa perfectly embodies their sun sign. Following along in that context everyone is acting like the typical Taurus (Sungji), Cancer (Sumin), and Scorpio (Seju). Pretty sure Nami is a Gemini as well. Anyone into astrology wanna present their hot take?

Past couple of chapters have definitely shut me up and endeared me to Seju ALOT more. Not saying I'm Team Pink but I wouldn't be terribly upset if Seju and Sumin repaired whatever they have/had.

+20 for character development.

ah well I want Seju to be happy too but I wouldn't say I'm team pink. I kind of think Sungji and Seju could become friends, it would be cool maybe :D But sleeping together no way... that's like Sumin sleeping with Nami.

Actually I think NamixSeju would be nice. Im all here for Team Blue

I wouldn't mind reading about her opinions on toilet paper thickness. I really find her adorable. Lily Love, I don't know. Some days I really enjoy it, and other days I'm like this story is just not doing it for me. I don't know if there's an author I've had more mixed feelings about than Ratana these days. If we're talking about fluffy fluffy daily happiness, I'd go with Wife and Wife or Collectors.

Sungji is tooooooo adorable. Usually I don't go for the sweet innocent virgin to the world types because I'm sick of the trope, but Sungji not only makes it adorable, but wanted. I just want to see her be a young maiden in love, and her goofball face.

I like Lily Love because it's at the point of can't even lol. It's so cheesy that I just get a kick out of it. Ratana said after that one shot she wrote she wanted something light and fluffy, which LL definitely fits the bill for.

Wife and Wife was maaaaaad cute tho.

last edited at Mar 25, 2016 11:07PM

Kinetik_09
I think that is more obssessive than possissive, because she never really tried to actively own Sumin, she just really believe with all her strengh that in the end, no matter what happens, Sumin will end up coming back to her.

Matter of opinion I think. To me, Seju treats Sumin kind of like a new toy. WDTFS relies on A LOT of subtext and we don't get much from the characters, but that is the feeling I've always gotten, that Sumin is like a super rare collectible Pokemon to Seju.

I would say Seju is pathetic because she really believes one day Sumin will come back to her, not because she believes she belongs to her.

Though Seju didn't move on, neither Sumin really moved on until she found Sungji, it's why I see her as important, not because she have a relationship with Sumin, but because after 10 years she is the one changing their dynamic.

I think Sumin was making an effort in that time, however feeble and equally pathetic. She didn't just resign herself to the fact that she was miserable, she tried to address it, in her own passive aggressive way.

Hey, don't worry about what you think about her, though it is kind of bad that we don't know much about Seju, she's at least complex enough that we can discuss a lot about her and most interpretations are right to a certain point.

I think Seju is great for analyzing and understanding complex emotions. Love is rarely just that, and is often deeply layered with other, sometimes more sinister emotions that propel someone towards action (or inaction). I just hate her dialogue and constant yearning for something that doesn't exist anymore. I get desensitized to it after a while.

Really, without Seju this would probably be a really nice and fluffy yuri with some sex, but would we really have anything to discuss about?

Nah, we wouldn't, but I'm also totally okay with benign stories that focus on stupid happiness and sex (see, Lily Love).

Also Sungji is the mega ultimate rare cinnamon roll. I would read a sol solely focused on her daily exploits through life, even if it didn't involve any yuri.

last edited at Mar 25, 2016 10:14PM

Also, since when Seju ever tried to possess Sumin? She wants to be with Sumin, not possess her, sorry but in my opinion Seju never acted in a way that shows she care more about having Sumin with her instead of seeing her happy, if she ever did anything against Sumin relationships then I could agree, but I feel you're not seeing Seju how she really is, it was always Sumin who came back to use her and all Seju did was give support, if anything I see Seju wanting Sumin to be happy, sorry Kinetik_09, but I complely disagree on your view of Seju.

"No matter how much time it takes, she will be mine again" -Seju, chapter 27

Sounds like possession to me.

Love is not created equal and sometimes love can be/is unhealthy, obsessive, and possessive. And what does love mean if your love only extends so far as that person's willingness to be with you before it warps into something twisted?

That is what is pathetic about Seju. Her need to feel whole again by having Sumin as her possession, as her person she can say 'that is mine'. All of this irrespective of the fact that things will never be the same or go back to how they were.

Like, I get it. You fucked up, you feel bad about how things ended and there is dirt thrown on both sides...but to not move on? To relish in your own suffering and misery and to wish to drag the person you love so much down into the abyss with you? That's not healthy, it's pathetic and shows an inability to move the fuck on.

And you aren't obligated to agree with my perspective of Seju, that's what makes debate so much fun. ^_^

last edited at Mar 25, 2016 9:58PM

I'm having a hard time putting scales on someone with grapefruit-size boobs.

I'm sure TeamPink will hate me for this, but Sumin x Sungji can stand on its own without Seju. It might not be as riveting or heart-wrenching (clearly you don't care about this) of a story, but it could happen. Since the original concept was without Seju written in, my guess is that the redhead would get more screen-time. Personally I think without Seju in the mix, the story becomes much more pedestrian yuri.

Have you seen X-Men? Mystique totally rocked the reptilian thing and made it sexy. Seju's aesthetic would be suited for that, probably not Hilary (MacySan Trump looks like an inbred between an Oompa Loompa and a mutant ninja turtle; and has the personality of a charismatic frog).

I think I like Seju's character more as a relic of the past, the obstacle for Sumin to overcome. I know her character carries meaning to the plot (which is why a part of me wants to care), but the current her is honestly pathetic and a bit creepy (no flame TeamPink just saying). It's hard for me personally to empathize with a person praying/hoping/wishing on another person's unhappiness so you can extend the time you possess them. I can't get down like that.

last edited at Mar 25, 2016 7:04AM

Totally hate how I grew fond of Seju and Sumin's lost relationship, that I had to force myself to not care at this point.

I didn't care from the beginning, so much so that once I saw the last chapter was all SejuxSumin flashback I didn't bother to read the translation or analyze the pages (I was shocked by my own apathy; I don't think I've ever forgone humoring a storyline and just skipped it because I spent all my fucks to give).

Apparently I'm alone on that.

There is something about Seju that is reptilian like. She reminds me of Hilary Clinton.

since i can't speak chinese i didn't get why Akari suddenly changed her mind along the story and started to develop feelings for the boi when she was clearly in love with Yuki and Yuki was in love with the boy. was confusing as fk lol

She never actually developed genuine romantic feelings for him. Basic 'let me get together with this guy to prove to myself I'm not in love with a girl' trope.

DAAAAAAAMN YURI PROJECT!!

Back at it again with the clever credit pages!

We all already knew that Seol-A dated and had sex with different guys, but she has never been in love with them. I dont think anyone minds, right? Haha. Pretty sure No-Rae did it with her ex too.

what's more,she thought she loved him! hahahaha

Oh pretty sure No-rae loved him, cus you know, people love other people sometimes before the current love interest in plots, right

To be honest No-rae probably isn't a virgin either considering that she was with her boyfriend for a reasonable amount of time...
But really who cares man, everyone have done things in the past, plus they're in their 20's they're not some shounen-manga high school students

YES, thank you. Seol-a and No-rae are both grown-ass women, let's treat them as such.

Also, bi/pan people exist yo.

^^^^^^^^^^^
People need to remember that it happens and is perfectly normal/okay.
I don't get all the fuss, it's like saying past relationships/experiences somehow invalidate everything they're feeling now

I could kiss you in the mouth right now. Full frontal.

Like, I just wish folks would have a lil faith in Soul-a and No-Rae (or any main character-s in a Yuri manga) when a male character shows up. I'm not one to like bananas in my pudding (though banana pudding isssss the shit) but I understand it usually serves a purpose to develop mc, provide context, or move the story along. The endless depths of angst and fret still exist between No-Rae and Soul-a y'all. I've learned the happiest you can be with a story is when you have no expectations and just enjoy the ride. Ssamba has provided a pretty sweet ride so far, imo.

Hahahahaha you made me choke xD
But oh man, in the last chapters/arc, when the ex first showed up and people were so freakin upset, I mean, yeah it's annoying, Seol-a just made her mind up about confessing, YET I don't think they realised how it was so important for him to show up. He wasn't just some douchy cliche'd ex that broke her heart, he was the guy that she loved and broke her heart because I forgot what (like he was a coward or something/drama). He was the reason No-rae was so broken and went abroad in Australia for some time (which was the reason Seol-a and No-rae share the same classes iirc)
It was really important for him to show up, because as fine as No-rae seemed, she needed to be on good enough terms with him, and become stronger, to show that she moved on and such, that she has found someone new, and that Seol-a matters more (I would have said when Seol-a got into the skiing accident and No-rae ditches the guy without a second thought, but that was a pretty obvious thing to do, but regardless, it was important that she did).
Yeah the story has been going on for pretty long now, but I honestly don't mind, their relationship has been built up so nicely. Sure they have feelings and it could have just jumped there, but it wouldn't have be as meaningful, their relationship has gone so far, they've come to care for each other so strongly. I really dig that their friendship, almost independently from their romantic attraction to one another, has developed to such lengths, so strongly.

TL;DR: Exes are annoying but ex was overall important to No-rae's character development
Length of FF and and all of the elements it could introduce thanks to it is what makes memorable and pleasant, what built the characters up

People get a good story and go ape shit about all of what's wrong with it (and plot development- all this god**** plot stirring in my yuri pot). I think we've just been spoiled with stuff like Citrus (although I enjoy that story for what it is) and just don't know how to act when we get something that's a keeper.

We've been abused by bad Yuri y'all.

We all already knew that Seol-A dated and had sex with different guys, but she has never been in love with them. I dont think anyone minds, right? Haha. Pretty sure No-Rae did it with her ex too.

what's more,she thought she loved him! hahahaha

Oh pretty sure No-rae loved him, cus you know, people love other people sometimes before the current love interest in plots, right

To be honest No-rae probably isn't a virgin either considering that she was with her boyfriend for a reasonable amount of time...
But really who cares man, everyone have done things in the past, plus they're in their 20's they're not some shounen-manga high school students

YES, thank you. Seol-a and No-rae are both grown-ass women, let's treat them as such.

Also, bi/pan people exist yo.

^^^^^^^^^^^
People need to remember that it happens and is perfectly normal/okay.
I don't get all the fuss, it's like saying past relationships/experiences somehow invalidate everything they're feeling now

I could kiss you in the mouth right now. Full frontal.

Like, I just wish folks would have a lil faith in Soul-a and No-Rae (or any main character-s in a Yuri manga) when a male character shows up. I'm not one to like bananas in my pudding (though banana pudding isssss the shit) but I understand it usually serves a purpose to develop mc, provide context, or move the story along. The endless depths of angst and fret still exist between No-Rae and Soul-a y'all. I've learned the happiest you can be with a story is when you have no expectations and just enjoy the ride. Ssamba has provided a pretty sweet ride so far, imo.

I think it's been pretty well established throughout the story that Soul-a has slept with her fair share of men. That's what makes her relationship and feelings for No-Rae so special and different; it's a first for her.

Let's not do the whole "omg main female character is ruined because she is being portrayed as a young twenty something who gasp isn't a virgin!!" That's so 05 shounen romcom. We're better than that.

P.s. It is a flashback folks.

People would have gotten mad over it but i agree with you, everyone needs to get some every once in a while especially when the fact that the person your in love with acts dense as hell every time you try to make a move on them

I think the solution to that is a strip down to red lingerie and a lil straddle action. Kind of hard to act dense when the bitties are literally sitting in your lap.

Aah i had a very long week and i was only waiting for FF to make it brighter but it didn't, it's cute to see soela imagining herself with norae doing things like the couple she saw. But it wasn't nice to know soela slept with a guy that she just met on some party!
P.s if you haven't seen it, after the scene of them checking out each other. There is a small panel with their clothes discarded on floor.

I think it's been pretty well established throughout the story that Soul-a has slept with her fair share of men. That's what makes her relationship and feelings for No-Rae so special and different; it's a first for her.

Let's not do the whole "omg main female character is ruined because she is being portrayed as a young twenty something who gasp isn't a virgin!!" That's so 05 shounen romcom. We're better than that.

P.s. It is a flashback folks.

last edited at Mar 6, 2016 9:27AM

Quick aside:

I can't post it (because mobile) but the 2nd to last panel screams Dadddy Soul-a. Dadddy with three dees. Dadddy who...nvm.

That's all.

I have so many feelings for this. I can't even.

Has anyone else noticed that fiancé as a heart on his head? I thought it was only for the proposal but nah it's just there.

Okay, Nevri and Kinetik_09, I'm asking you (not telling you in this case) to please walk away from this one. In my experience, this sort of thing frequently turns into a trash fire, and I'd rather that not mar the discussion of what's actually a pretty good Takemiya Jin story.

If you want to know why the term can be considered transphobic, I recommend Google.

Thanks Nezchan, I don't plan to get into the discussion, just wanted to point that out.

This story (and deep) actually inspired me to go back and binge on Jin so I can't complain tbh.

I'm checking the Not Yaoi tag, and so far it's been used for:

• This one, which has some BL but not porn, therefore it isn't yaoi.
• A manga by GAN that has the exact same title as the KyoAni anime about teenage guys with a water fetish.
• An Evangelion dj where Kaworu tries to do yaoi but fails. Hence, not quite yaoi.
• Two Code Geass doujins where two gender-bent male characters do yuri porn. Thus, not exactly yaoi.
• And an author whose style makes girls look like transvestites.

For a tag so seldomly used it is quite diverse, isn't it?

Pretty great analysis of the tag but I think we all could have done without the transphobic slur.

I don't think Sumin has stopped because uncertain for her feelings for Seju, (Immediately Sumin compares her relationship with Sunji with what had with Seju) but because it would be for Sunji the "first time"...and I think Sumin really care about it...or afraid...and I think the author "play this note"...

The only time for Sumin was totally in love with a woman was with Seju, and now she compares with her past relationship with her, because after all those years she trying to figure out if this is really love with Sunji...

sorry for my bad english...

According to people who understands Korean, Sumin doesn't have sex with Sungji yet is because she's afraid she will like Sungji even more than she already does. Basically Sumin is still protecting herself, afraid to be hurt again. Darn... leaving Sungji sexually frustrated like that is just brutal. Sumin deserves to be abandoned for 3 days.

^^^^Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiis.

Sumin has pretty clearly shown that she has feelings for Sungji but she is still traumatized (I still don't get how people ship SejuxSumin but whatev floats your boat), and is literally unable to take that next step. I don't necessarily think there are residual emotions from Sumin's relationship with Seju (re romantic) but trauma like that doesn't heal itself overnight and i'm sure that she's ignored it for the most part and never really dealt with it in a real way (also the only relationship where Sumin hasn't been called/portrayed as an ice queen so it probably holds special meaning for her).

And yea, if I was Sungji I'd be beyond pissed. How many times you gonna leave a girl with blue clit??? HOW MANY TIMES SUMIN. WE NEED ANSWERS!!!!!!1111111

Yup, Nezchan beat me to it. A lot of AAVE phrases/vocab have made their way into more mainstream usage without people realizing the origin (i.e. stuff like "throwing shade"/"slay"/"____ gives me life"), and based on where I have seen "you do you" used I kind of assumed it fell into the same category. But who knows, it's basically impossible to google (all I got was some asinine article about millenials) and it's not like anyone officially tracks this type of thing ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Anyways, going back to the original point, if this is the case, then English speakers from outside the US might find that phrase unclear/confusing, which is too bad since the meaning seems to fit quite nicely. As for whether translations should avoid phrases that are specific to American English, that's a different issue.

...it seems I keep inadvertently derailing this thread from being about FF so I'll shut up now!

SPOILER ALERT!! Enah was actually Sung-pyo in a mask the whole time :O

AAVE is actually more encompassing than just phrases or vocabulary. It specifically speaks to how black people merged English with native languages spoken in parts of West Africa (its actually a mix of more than just that, but that's the basic gist of it).

Two of the most distinctive features of AAVE is the use of tense ("I been at the river" versus "I went down to the river") and double negatives ("I aint seen him nowhere" verses "I haven't seen him at all"). Most black people in the U.S. are considered to be bi-dialectical as they can speak AAVE and Standard American English (aka "The Queen's English").

Wikipedia actually has a really great article if you are interested in learning more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American_Vernacular_English

Most of the phraseology used today that is attributed to AAVE actually comes from black and latino LGBTQ communities and was basically co-opted (specifically terms such as "bitch read" "shade tree" "throwing shade" "everlasting life" etc). I won't get into how and why (because who really wants to have a discussion about race, gender, queerness, and money: not me), but I think you get my point.

Oh and as always thanks halmoni for the translation.

Halmoni is doing halmoni. That's how you do you, boo boo.

Layla

Nah ...i think seola is older than norea ...cuz seola said she thinks of her as a younger sister at first so if she was older .she couldent say that ....so ..seola is definitely older

Regarding the so you do you, I personally would say "So you do whatever"
It sounds cold and short enough. Like the hell I care.

If a "boo boo" was added after the last you I think it would be perfect.

I reaaally didn't realize people were still upset about this manga? The emotional investment is real.

Maybe Enah thinks that the person No-Rae likes is someone else and so she's taunting Seola.

Except unbeknownst to either, that person IS Seola?

That may be a possibility... but I just feel like she knows it's Seol-A. Enah seems really perceptive though.

We will just have to see.

I'm trying to think of a time when No-Rae showed that the person was Seol-a through No-Rae's own actions that Enah saw. I can think of multiple times Seol-a gave it away that she likes No-Rae, but not the reverse... maybe I missed something, but it's hard to be perceptive when there's nothing to pick up on? Regardless, Ssamba could write it that Enah picked it up with even the slightest hint so this doesn't mean much.

You do have a point! Seol-A is crazy obvious about it, but Enah hasn't been given hints by No-Rae who she likes. Omg you are a genius. My brain wasnt working before. That could totally be it!

Wow. I love this chapter.

Enah is totally right. I've been in Seol-a spot with respect to someone with a personality eerily reminiscent of No-rae's. Hopefully, Seol-a gets passed her ego does something to make this situation totally certain.

Enah has seen No-rae an Seol-a interact. I think there's been plenty to pick up on and it's not as if we're even seeing all of the interactions. They spend a lot of time together and talk about one another. Even if it's an assumption, why wouldn't Enah assume Seol-a? I'm only saying this because I don't think it's a total plot setup or something like that. This seems pretty normal to me and hopefully spurs Seol-a to say something soon. (Next chapter would be nice. ^. ^)

It would be pretty weak that somehow thru plot magic Enah has ascertained how No-Rae feels about Soul-a. This is a slice of life and it becomes redundant very quickly to show every interaction they have. There has been nothing to suggest to Enah that No-Rae likes Soul-a.

I think it's been pretty much suggested throughout the story that No-Rae is someone who wears a mask and it's hard to figure her out (see Hee-Jin and Ji-Whan dropping them yuri nuggets for Soul-a). The only reason we know how No-Rae really feels is because we are given insight to her character and who she really is; other characters in the story don't have that. However, they are easily able to see how Soul-a feels toward No-Rae (she even admitted herself she is not good at hiding things) and often act as catalyst to move the story forward.

I actually love the dynamic between Soul-a and Enah because they are reflections of each other; sometimes when you meet with someone who is just like you it causes friction. Add in the fact that Soul-a is overprotective of No-Rae it makes it pretty easy for Enah to provoke her. im pretty positive that Enah is trying to get under Soul-a's skin and push her to be upfront about her feelings, which is also a reoccurring theme throughout the story.