I'm not very good at catching lolis, only got as far as 15000 points ;_;

Mh, to me it felt like she didn't really want to and then did it because Remi asked if she was scared. It's not spelled out so there's no way to know. Actually, I think there are a lot of things not spelled out so there is a lot of space for speculation, which is probably why the views of people here differ so much.

This is the main appeal of this manga. Many things are open, we read some of the characters thoughts but not all of them, I don't remember right now if we ever go deep into Remi thoughts, but from what she says about love being like a trap says a lot about her and what she thinks of love. Was she hurt in the past because of love? Probably yes, I wonder if she was directly rejected (maybe she was already an slut when she fell in love and her love rejected her for it) or was she cheated on? We don't know the answers but we know there is something there.

Same with Asuna and Fue, they are interested in each other, but neither are able to step out of the their comfort zones, if we consider that Fue is sick (be it depression or some other issue) and that are drugs/hormones that could make Asuna less horny, they could make it work somehow, but they do not seek help and just indulge to their sins.

and the worst was Sachi cheating on Ruki.

I'm not trying to defend Sachan but she technically wasn't cheating. Ruki and her were sex friends at that time, nothing more. Technically not being cheating doesn't make what she did any less dickish but it still technically wasn't cheating. Ruki is not completely innocent either, her asking for sex made things awkward in the first place. Obviously that doesn't even compare to what Sachan did, but still.

Not giving an answer while conceding to Ruki was a mistake, it's not like she said she wasn't going out too after what happened. Even she considered it cheating because she never gave Ruki a clear answer. Technically she accepted Ruki even if she wasn't fully prepared.

Now, I've seen people say Ruki went from really strong character to weak. I really like Ruki but she never was that strong, I think. She got easily baited into having sex with Remi because of her pride, pretty much every important thing she did was because someone pushed her into it and even when Sachan and Ruki got lost, it was Sachan who did the consoling. Ruki tried to act strong but I don't think she ever really was.

I don't think she got baited because of her pride, it looked like raw curiosity. Actually, the whole deal with the sins was a bit off on how they were presented, Remi for example just looks like Lust #2, And Ruki is strong in her own way, willing to get hurt, willing to move on, willing to forgive, she might not be someone dependable, but she is strong standing on her own two feet when needed.

his writing

It's "her" writing.

Oh... noted.

Edit: typos.

last edited at Apr 1, 2015 2:18PM

Hmm, first post here, why not add another forum to the many I already frequent and discuss things?

I want to say that reading the last 20 pages have been more fun than reading the manga itself. The first thing that came into mind after reading chapter 12 was "as soon as I finish reading this manga I NEED to check the discussion forums for the lulz". I laughed, I shunned/pitied people who were defending cheating, took some points I wasn't considering. Overall at least this discussion seemed like a lot of fun and maybe there are much more, sadly I found about this manga too late, as a random link on reddit that I decided to click for whatever reason, if anyone knows other series that might have discussions like this that is still on-going please inform me as long it's not from Seo Kouji because I'm not reading the same shit for the third time ^^'

About my thoughts on this series, starting with Fue and her problem, it doesn't feel like her problem is just depression, it might be something similar to what I've seen in a documentary a few years ago about a woman who was sleepy most of the time during her wake hours, she would just do enough to work, commuting and preparing meals, very little socializing, and in her free days she would sleep 16+ hours a day, one phrase from her that really left an impression on me was "if you offered me the best things to do in this city, for free, I would just say 'no' because I'd rather go home and sleep.", this considering she lived in a prosperous and quite active large city. Fue gives the same impression, she might not even be frigid, she is just REALLY sleepy all the time and everything getting into her way to get some sleep is just an annoyance. Sad thing for Asuna... really, for someone as lustful as her to end up in love with such a person must be so hard, the tension between the two of them is so real and yet it feels the both of them are afraid of getting it going again.

Whatever Maasa and Meru, the two of them didn't grow too much on me as it apparently did with many other members here, but it's good that Meru apparently got over her anorexic behavior, I just hope she doesn't get diabetes or really obese...

Sachi, Ruki and Remi... oh well, wasn't this he main attraction of the whole show? I really liked some things through the development of the plot but the ending overall was underwhelming, why are they even talking to Remi to begin with? I find it hard to believe the others weren't aware of what happened and yet they are just there interacting with Remi as if nothing happened. Heck! Sachi and Ruki even call out to her and give her a gift, how nice isn't it? Giving a gift for the one who caused the worst pain you ever felt emotionally? Not saying everything was Remi's fault since I really think the main one to blame was Sachi for what happened between the three of them, but she is a dangerous person to be around, she is deceitful and callous, the fact that the characters are still interacting with her and even making fun of what happened with Ruki leaves me really annoyed, can these people really be called "friends?" How is Sachi trustworthy considering all this? Damn. This chapter is just lukewarm shit, we could've just ended with the last one.

Ruki from chapter 12 and the Ruki from chapter 13 also seemed like two different people, blinded by love? Maybe. When she declared to Remi that they weren't going anywhere with that discussion, it was the peak of her character, a statement like saying "there is no reason to waste my time with someone like you", Remi there was trying to play the villain, even if Ruki got mad at her provocation at some point she just shrugged at Remi after getting a few answers and concluding Remi was too fucked up to have a reasonable argument with, she was really strong in this scene, probably stronger than Sachi will ever be in her self-indulging bullshit of protecting Ruki. Yet this is the same character who accepts all the bullshit Sachi spews at her without any hint of remorse in the next chapter, obviously, because of her love, even if the author really played Sachi here as an asshole until the end but it's Ruki choice, not mine (but I would've probably done the same, well... happens), Ruki is willing to run the risk of getting hurt even more, and from what can be seen from the end, around two years have passed and everything was okay. Eternal as long as it last, they say.

Oh, another thing, about this realism thing that all people seen to value so much, there is more than just that makes this story convincingly good. Realism here isn't the main reason we can relate to the characters, even because at points they are exaggerated to act like allegories of something the author is trying to transmit through his writing, but for this, things do not to be realistic to invoke such emotions, the same can be achieved through many other metaphors or scenarios that cannot be found in reality and end with similar results. But yeah, this story is realistic enough that I look at the seven of them and can fit them with people I know and see the same shit happening because I've seen similar, but thing that ever hit closest to home with me wasn't even a bit realistic...

last edited at Apr 1, 2015 1:13PM