I like the implication that the anime episode airing somehow proved me completely wrong and caused me to ignore them, despite my explicitly stating three hours before the episode aired that I wasn't going to continue the discussion any further.

Except you did discuss it further and continue to do so. It was you that said that we should wait to see how the anime does it to prove who was right, now you all the sudden want to avoid the conversation after being proven wrong. You even tried saving face by saying Naru's sigh was condescending, which is ridiculous.

But they don't seem to be very good with reading, cause and effect, and actually accounting for all facts, instead preferring to make up their own.

I have full documentation of our argument, apparently documentation doesn't count for you.

But by all means, keep trying to hound me about it, acheiving nothing but clogging up the thread and annoying everyone else.

Would have ended a long time ago if you weren't so damn stubborn and continue to repeat the same misunderstandings and straight up lies.

Not to break into conversations, but you're kind of being rude to this person? They weren't responding to you and they never said anything implying speed wasn't a factor in her evaluation? Like yes speed is important, all technical skills are, but if you're being rude to your group mates who you need to work together with to complete your assignments you won't be hired, or if you are, you certainly won't be treated well/an easy firing target.

Dont break into a conversation if you dont have the context. Mogu knows damn well that they have denied speed being a factor. They believe that the design on the mini game itself would matter for her evaluation and it simply did not.

Besides, Mogu is ignoring me because the Anime proved me right and they're salty about it.

The only person Naru was rude to was Nene and its only rude if you believe telling the truth is rude. Naru is a straight shooter who tells it like it is.

Now enter an intern. They only have three months to show their skills and potential in the workplace. They showcase good skills from the beginning with a great resume (project that displays great game mechanics) and work hard from the get go. But as a manager, if you discover that their work is sloppy (full of bugs) and/or that they refuse to get along with their coworkers (creating a bad company atmosphere, shooting down potential ideas, making meetings and conversation awkward and unwanted), this person despite all their skills suddenly doesn't seem so appealing.

And who was the employee she didnt work with? Oh, right, the other intern who isnt even working on anything.

Also, Narus speed easily made up for her bugs. Fixed them all in one night.

From an objective standout as a manager, Naru really wasn't a good employee until the last chapter where you see her work with fellow employees in her department (Clearly she likes Momo but it's akin to being friends with the girl from Finance when you're in Marketing-she's not helping you get a bonus anytime soon). Now that she's willing to remove the awkwardness with Nene, her technical skills can really come to light because then she'll be more open to feedback and negotiation with other employees to create a better product. An average employee will follow orders, but a good one will contribute to the task in a way their boss couldn't have thought of. If the boss wanted a robot, then they could certainly buy one, and it could be cheaper than human labor!

In the meantime Nene can literally not do any actual work for the game at all. Who is worth more? A straight talking employee with technical skills? Or and employee with no practical skills but is essentially the office puppy?

Besides, if proper communication skills was at all important at Eagle Jump then Hifumin wouldnt be considered for a leadership position at all.

last edited at Sep 14, 2017 8:17AM

You're forgetting that if Momo fails, she can try again... If Naru fails she have to work somewhere else no matter what, is hard to enjoy yourself like that, only now we will see if her dream is only to support whatever Momo does or actually making games with her

I would think that in a case like that you would want to work earnestly and work hard, showing your best on all fronts, not bet it all on a single one at the expense of everything else. Especially since you have no idea how they are actually weighing each aspect of your work in their evaluation.

So it was still pretty bad judgment on her part.

Haha the irony. Pretty sure she knows she is being evaluated based on speed as well as debugging. The only one making assumptions is you.

Yes, contact a mod about this harassment. Would love to hear their take on you being called out on your bullshit. I may have mixed up your comments with someone else's but at least I can admit it. Besides, your comment wasnt even far off, just lacked the word bitch. Also funny that you recognized it was meant for you only because I mentioned reality warping. You still have yet to point out where I called Hajime a complete failure, you have failed to point out where Naru yelled at Hajime, you have failed to admit that you were completely wrong about tone and body language. And I love how you take a dig at Naru's code as if I ever stated it would be perfect, in fact I stated the opposite. I clearly said that her code is more prone to bugs due to being rushed to finish before the deadline thanks to Hajime's miltiple changes. But hey, keep that reality warp drive at maximum.

You continue to be wrong, continue to fail to admit it and now want the mods to step in to save you because you cant justify your claims. BTW, how is this harassment? Couldnt I say the same about you harassing me?

last edited at Sep 13, 2017 7:38AM

Hahaha youre fucking joking right? She admits to being a bitch? She admits to being harsh. You are pathetic, you really just love to warp reality to what suits you.

Stil waiting on when she blew up and started yelling, or was that just in your fanfic?

last edited at Sep 13, 2017 1:46AM

You just cant admit being wrong, can you? She shows no signs of being condescending or arrogance at all during that scene. She doesnt blow up and yell either. Her body language makes her seem far more nervous and insecure than anything else. Sighs are meant as a sign of relief, not remotely close to arrogance.

So it wasn't just me after all. This episode appear to tune down a lot of conflict. (make Naru look a lot better)

Didnt tune down anything in my eyes. Its exactly how I imagined the conversation happened in then manga and how this whole shit show started. But I suppose people already had their mind made up about Naru and that influenced how they read her lines.

Just saw the episode, being proven right sure does feel great after such a long and pointless argument.

First, I want to say, love how you ignore the fact that you claimed that Naru blew up and yelled when she clearly didn't.

The hell are you talking about? I barely even mentioned seniority. You're thinking of someone else entirely. I wrote an entire thing on the difference between their attitudes, but you clearly can't read.

What a complete and utter lie. They literally don't have a different attitude. They both literally hate additional work load. Naru has an attitude but Umiko uses physical violence. You have yet to address this.

Then why does how many projects she finishes or how quickly she finishes them even matter, when she can clearly show exactly what was requested of her, when it was requested, and how quickly she coded it?

Because she can't show how quickly she coded it because the project is literally not done yet. Why the hell do you think she asks Hajime to take responsibility for the project being late? Oh right, you haven't what they actually said, you are too focused on how she said it.

So she is asking Hajime to take responsibility for something... that she can already prove isn't he own fault? Why?

Why not? So she doesn't have to use it an excuse later. Better for Hajime to voluntarily take responsibility than having to make a case to the bosses later.

Yeah, because there is still more work to do after that stage. Among other things, they need to get final approval from above, then actually insert it into the game. It is never specifically mentioned when the deadline is, or that she's already past it when she turns it in. She couldn't be past it yet, anyway, considering the terminology she used meaning the final shipping date for the whole product, and that there is still work being done on it.

She literally says that if she has to redo it then she will be late. Then has to ask Hajime directly to take responsibility for it being late. And yet here you are trying to claim that it isn't late. How daft can you get?

I feel like it was mentioned this was a smaller project, but I can't remember specifically where. Maybe it was in the anime, which I can't check at this time.

Hazuki makes no mention of it being a smaller project when requesting ideas.

Youre not even arguing with me at this point, esoecially considering that the volume ends with the game's release. But by all means, keep inseting your own assumptions instead of going by the series' own logic.

And we have seen chapters skip months between pages. Still doesn't show a time line, what chapter did summer start? What chapter did fall start? What chapter did Winter start?

Still doesn't matter since we know for a fact that they are literally months out from release, we know that Naru has a month dead line for the mini-game. Well, anyone with the subtle amount of deductive reasoning knows, you clearly can't grasp it. Also got to love how you claim that the game is being released so very soon and yet Naru is still working on the same game months after given the project. I wonder what they would have had her do if the mini-game was designed well sooner.

Again, arguing either side of this point any further is pointless when we could just wait to see how it gets animated today.

You literally see her bow. Are you blind?

Or a problem with the change that will cause further delays, but I guess that wouldn't help your case.

"I want to add something to this part."
"I told you it would end up that way."

Yeah, I can clearly see how she is talking about future delays, and not past suggestions being ignored.

What? She is clearly stating that there are problems with the changes Hazuki made. Nothing to do with Umiko suggesting changes herself.

Why the hell would she need to go to the effortof dragging Hazuki all the way to the programmer booth just for a flick? She could do that anywhere. Especially considering that it is far from the only time she does it, the first times being long before they even made the flick agreement.

What are you even arguing about at this point. How does any of this prove that Umiko is making suggestion to change the spec? There is absolutely nothing suggesting such, only Umiko getting mad at Hazuki for making changes.

Yeah, and finishes by saying that she could have pretty forcefully dealt with Hajime if she had been the one working with her. Since, you know, the entire point I was making in this section was about Umiko getting more directly involved with the designers, that's thr single statement I was referencing. For you to bring completely outside points into it, your reading comprehension is pretty bad, itself.

HAHAHA that wasn't your point at all. Umiko is getting mad at the changes, therefore she is getting involved in the changes? I guess Haru was just getting involved in the design with her complaints according to your garbage logic.

You have literally called her a complete failure and awful at her job multiple times, in which case so is every single other employee at the company.

So I guess english must be your second language since you don't know the definition of the common word "literal" because I literally never used the term "complete failure", let alone multiple times. I guess it's that wacky head canon of yours kicking in again.

I said she failed at designing the mini-game, which she clearly did since other people had to jump in to fix it for her.

You're arguing against the series' own logic and values with your own judgments and assumptions. If you're going to do that, you need to use the series' logic against itself to show it to be internally inconsistent, not... whatever you think youre doing here.

How the hell am I arguing the series' logic? I'm not. Not once did I say how the company should treat her unless I was referencing the person who said that the company should have fired Naru right there and then. But, again, can't expect much with your reading comprehension.

She literally says its not the changes themselves, but the attitude that she's punishing. How can you be that bad at reading?

The attitude that she is mad at is Hazuki adding changes and not being apologetic about it. If it's not the changes then why should Hazuki apologize? Again, reading comprehension, you lack it.

Maybe if you read more than just the first panel on that page, you'd see the conclusion, the most important point, the entire takeaway from that discussion, is that while annoying, such changes are unavoidable, and that despite the annoyance, she still wants to put out the best product possible, which that annoyance is necessary for.

And this is Umiko saying that, so it is pretty clearly meant to represent the mentality and philosophy of the company's programming team as a whole.

So what are you mad are Naru about? She gets annoyed but does the work anyways because she won't get in trouble for it. How is that any different from Umiko? It's not.

And yet you keep completely ignoring the manga's own internal logic and themes and values to apply your own, completely different ones.

What the fuck are you on? What internal logic did I ignore? The fact that Umiko agreed with Naru's actions to get annoyed at Hajime? That Hajime apologized after realizing that Naru was under more pressure than her? Looks like I'm not the one ignoring the manga's logic.

And yet you, yourself, have agreed in the past that her choice in wording was extremely poor.

Who do you think you are talking to? First you make the claim that I called Hajime a "complete failure" and now you are making the claim that I said that Naru worded her extremely poorly? Again, literally not once.

The term "high quality" has not appeared a single time yet with respect to her code. Every change is a completely new feature, so it's not like she's being asked to redo existing code. So I don't know where you're getting these ideas of slow-down and less focus on the code. As I've stated numerous times and you have ignored every single time, she already has official documentation already showing everything.

What does have redoing existing code have anything to do with the quality of her brand new code? You are not making sense at all. She literally has to slow down by redoing code to add more features, have you ever written a single line of code in your life?

I also love how you think it's more appropriate and respectable for Naru to build a case behind Hajime's back in order to rat her out when the boss comes around asking why the game is late instead of just asking her directly.

She has clearly never even met Hazuki before. Umiko is doing the entirety of her assessment. That's why Hajime's apology message was sent to UMIKO, not Hazuki. In which case the only difference between Hajime and Hazuki is one of seniority, a difference you have criticized an endless number of times.

What the fuck?... Hazuki is literally the boss of her boss and she knows that. What are you smoking?

Given that you have a penchant for completely ignoring not only the majority of the argument you're replying to, but now clearly also have one for ignoring the majority of the information presented in the series itself, this can't even be called a discussion anymore. So there's no point in me continuing it any further.

HAHAHA I literally (there's that confusing word again, youll learn it eventually) reply to every single line you type. You just love to make shit up, don't you? Been writing too many fan fictions that you can't stop yourself from warping reality?

I do look forward to more criticisms about how terrible my reading comprehension is for words that I was the one to write, though.

Well seeing as how you don't know what the word "literally" means I'm going to go out and limb here and say that just because you can translate doesn't mean that you completely understand the meaning of what is being said. this conversation has been evident of that, you can't even understand plain English. I wonder how much has been lost in this manga with your translations.

One last note, quite ironic that you make claims that I don't read what you write and yet we have full documentation here showing that I clearly reply to everything you type. I guess documentation doesn't mean as much to you as you think it does to Eagle Jump.

last edited at Sep 12, 2017 9:04AM

Do you know who would have a better idea of the schedule than someone who literally just started there? The person actually in charge of that.

Yeah, and it's almost like Naru literally asked Hajime if it was alright the first time and then asked her to take responsibility for the second time. But I guess you don't remember that either.

And I've gone over the difference in attitude between Umiko and Naru several times already, so that this point I'm starting to think that you're not even reading things you reply to.

No you have not, the best you got is their difference in seniority. Umiko uses physical violence when more work is put on her team. Naru tells it like it is and all the sudden she is a huge bitch. Do you not see the conflict there?

Come on, dude. You can't even be consistent with yourself about what she should be evaluated on. The final outcome of the project shouldn't matter, you say. But then you say she needs to have a certain number of projects completed or she'll fail. But then you say the quality of the code should be all that matters. But then you say speed is most important.

What the hell are you talking about? The only thing I said about the project that shouldn't matter is how it is specifically designed, the type of game doesn't matter to the coder. What matters is speed and quality of the code, the actual game being played does not. How are you not getting this?

And besides, as has been mentioned multiple times before, she has OFFICIAL WORK ORDERS, as well as a growing amount of code, and the dates she submitted that code for review, that she can clearly show exactly how much work she did and exactly how long it took. Total number of projects finished should be irrelevant compared to how much total work she got done, if you truly believe that all that matters is her code.

And that's exactly why she asked Hajime to take responsibility. But, again, that fact hasn't sunk into you yet. What is she suppose to do? Either ask Hajime to take responsibility for the delays or rat her out and use her as an excuse later. Either way you would find someway to be pissed off at her.

Also, what management? The decision was already made and everything was finalized before she blew up. Her criticizing Hajime did nothing to actually speed anything up. And with the aforementioned work orders already showing the cause of the delay, literally the only thing yelling at Hajime achieved was catharsis.

HAHAHAHA yelling? Blowing up? What the hell are you talking about? Now your just making up your own head cannon. She talked it out with Hajime, told her the issues, and told her that they couldn't keep redoing the same work. That sped up the process.

Point me to to where "less than a month" is ever mentioned, anywhere. Or how far away the deadline she mentions actually is. And yes, it was pretty clearly a reference to the final deadline for shipping the game, since she uses the term 納期 in Japanese, and not 締め切り. While the latter is standard deadline, the former means the final deadline to ship a product. I know it could have been made clearer in English, but there's only so much space in speech bubbles and it takes more words because there isn't a simple equivalent term differentiating them.

Come on, use some deductive reasoning for once. She clearly states that if she redoes the mini-game for the first set of changes she will miss the deadline. For the second changes she makes it clear that Hajime will have to take responsibility for the mini-game being late. Then she turns it in late, which is before Nene has to turn in her project, which was given an explicit 1 month deadline. Naru's project had a deadline before Nene's 1 month deadline, therefore her deadline was shorter than 1 month. Do you get it now?

And no, I highly doubt they are releasing the game less than a year after starting development. Either you are out of your mind or the author is.

Uh, even outside of the above note, it's stated in no uncertain terms right here.

Plus the fairly specific release date right here.

Maybe you should stop making assumptions about everything and actually read the series.

A winter release date, literally means that it could release the next year. They barely announced the game and now they are coming up on the final dead line?

Less that 10 chapters since they even got the publisher to approve the alpha, now they are coming up on a dead line? They are not even in the all nighter phase of development, they are apparently still in the "dead lines dont mean much" pase.

Pretty much everything about her wording and body language. And the flippant way she talks about it when mentioning it to Umiko later. But I guess we'll have to wait to see how it's animated!

Apparently not since you can magically see it already animated since you already know her body language. I guess bowing is condescending in Japanese culture these days.

What's this? She's getting mad at Hazuki over a request for a feature change that she predicted and even suggested to Hazuki beforehand?

Or a problem with the change that will cause further delays, but I guess that wouldn't help your case.

What's this? She's dragging Hazuki to the programmer booth to discuss changes?

You mean as she flicks her as punishment? Why would Umiko flick her if Umiko is suggesting the changes. Again, deductive reasoning isn't your strong suit.

What's this? She's claiming she could forcefully deal with Hajime's indecisiveness about design?

She literally sits there complaining about changes. How does this help your argument at all?

Seriously, do you even read this series?

It's become clear that even though your a good TL your reading comprehensions skills are absolute garbage.

If your requirement for success is "getting everything right the first time without any outside help," then pretty much every single employee at the entire company is a failure. Look how many rejected and reworked designs both Aoba and Kou have had. How many bugs end up being found in the programmers' codes. How often the lead designer and head of the entire team herself ends up wanting to fix things. How often the 3D models are shown needing to have errors fixed. Even Umiko outright states that it's unrealistic to expect the design to be perfect and complete from the beginning.

Doesn't matter if problems are inevitable. It's a fact that all problems still have a cause. I didn't say that Hajime should be removed as a designer, only pointing out that it's entirely her fault that there are delays. but, again, you can't seem to grasp my point and are too busy building strawmen.

Plus, with the previous design chapter being entirely about encouraging Hajime to accept help from others, as far as the company itself is concerned, she's still not doing a bad job.

Yes, she is. Her initial design was boring and lacked proper atmosphere. If she just suggested a mini-game that was just Tag but relied on everyone else to make it fun then she is doing a bad job.

It's almost like you haven't actually read any of Umiko's lines!

Look! She's outright saying that it's not the changes themselves that she's mad about!

She is literally having her apologize for making the changes. Why would she make her apologize if she didn't like them? you're so damn obtuse.

Look! She's outright saying that it's unrealistic to expect the design to be perfect from the start, and that despite how annoying it can be, she still wants to make the game as good as possible!

So first she like's changes but now she doesn't? Make up your damn mind. She doesn't like changes and turns to physical violence when she is forced to change the code. That's a fact, that is a major part of her character. She doesn't like the changes.

All I am saying is that for someone who argued that, you seem to be judging events at Eagle Jump as if it were some other imagined, completely different company, instead of based on what has been shown to be standard practice there.

What a complete load, I did no such thing. I never once stated that Eagle Jump should do or who should be fired. I never once made an assumption on how the hierarchy there treats new hires or what they expect their attitudes to be. I simply justified Naru's annoyance with some of the issues at the company.

As I've stated before, I don't even have a problem with her asking about the deadline. I have a problem with how she went about it.

How did she go about it that was an issue? Being direct and to the point? It's obvious that the only issue you have is that it's a new character suggesting that an old character could possibly cause a problem.

What are you even claiming she needs to demand leniency from? Her evaluation for employment? I thought her code was all that mattered? Schedule management would be entirely Hajime's job in this situation, and Naru has work orders and code to show the work she did and the time periods she was given.

She is literally asking Hajime to take responsibility for the work load so that she can focus on the code. HOW DO YOU NOT GET THAT BY NOW? At first she is planning to code fast with high quality, when she is forced to slow down she asks Hajime to take responsibility so that she can focus on coding. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this before you understand it.

And again, why, then, don't you claim that she should make same demands of Hazuki, who is asking for even bigger changes even later into the schedule?

Because she is the one evaluating her, what is Naru going to going to do? Ask Hazuki to tell herself to take responsibility for delays? You really didn't think that argument out too much.

Honestly, discussing this seems to be completely futile, since you seem to have read neither the source material nor any of the things you're responding to.

Again, that's hilarious considering the whole dead line fiasco that you can't seem to grasp.

last edited at Sep 11, 2017 11:39PM

So... Si Chen probably still loves her after all those years. That's depressing.

Meh, it's her own damn fault.

We have a different definition of "awesome plot twists", as soon as it was revealed that all the titans are just weapons from another nation I lost almost all my interest. Its the same shit in zombie survival shows when zombies become second fiddle to other human survivors. The zombies/titans become just a tool in a pointless conflict.

Her getting so annoyed at the second rework actually kind of illustrates a problem with her attitude, as that rework was brought about by Momo. The entire reason Naru want to make games. Naru's single goal in life apparently being to make games with Momo, and here Momo is asking if Naru's really okay with it like that and suggesting how it could be better. And Naru's response is just to wish for Momo to shut the fuck up.

You keep calling it a problem when all she is doing to trying to stick to the schedule. You act like the schedule is no big deal, that delays cause no problems at all. Umiko's character was introduced to use over being pissed off about errors and delays but when Naru does it it's now a bad thing?

You're absolutely right. There is only one single, entirely objective skill that you can possibly rate to evaluate how well someone would do a job. There couldn't possibly be alternative aspects of a skillset that certain companies would value more than others. And number of projects would absolutely always trump the size and difficulty of each one.

She's a coder, she would be evaluated based on how well she coded. That's just a cold hard fact, the fact that she was able to also manage her team and time well is also a positive that you refuse to acknowledge.

But oh no, she wasn't super nice about all the problems she pointed out? Better fire her! /s

I don't think you even rrad what you're arguing with. I said there was never a deadline given by UMIKO, the person evaluating her work. That deadline was from the company, because it has to be done in time to be worked into the game. Umiko herself never said anything about her expectations on how fast she wants Naru to get things done or how many projects she expects Naru to finish.

She literally says that they will pass the deadline, You can try to twist it all you want, fact is that she was given a deadline that was shorter than a month. And no, obviously it wasn't a deadline based on how long it would take to implement into the game since after being late twice she then had to create several versions for the different areas.

It's also a complete assumption that there are even going to be more projects for her to work on after this, as they are pretty clearly in the final stretch just before release.

what's your definition of clearly? They are no where close to being finished, they barely even announced the game that long ago. Games are announced about a year before release in a lot of cases, for smaller 3rd parties they are announced years before. So where you are getting this idea that they are in the final stretch?

Although that pressure is entirely an assumption on her part, as are many of those faults. And she's stating it in a clearly aggressive, condescending fashion. And her apology is clearly flippant and insincere, a mere formality. A "so long as you understand."

How the hell are you getting a sense of her being aggressive or condescending? She does a proper apology with a bow, you can't even see her face. And during the whole conversation she has a nervous sweat.

The first rework is partly Naru's own fault as well, as she had clear doubts about it herself but didn't say anything until it was finished. You can say that it's not her job, but Umiko has shown she works directly with the designers and makes suggestions about things that might end up getting changed later to try and avoid as much last-minute change as possible.

No, she has not. It has never shown Umiko making design requests or decisions. The more requests would make more spec changes and that would go against her very character as the person who shoots anyone who adds more work onto their load.

The second one you can't really blame on Hajime, because she was about to approve it as it was until Momo spoke up. Given a last-minute idea about how to make something a great deal better, and there still being time left to implement it, it is difficult to call either choice in that situation being objectively better. Given the attitude of Hazuki, the top man on the team, toward game making, the choice Hajime went with seems to at least have been the correct one as far as their own company is concerned.

Yes, you can still blame Hajime because she failed to design it well that it still had obvious faults. All the changes made to the mini-game were suggested by other people, Hajime is clearly failing to put more thought into her game designs.

Which again just leads me to the conclusion that she's really not a good match for the company in her present state.

Again, weird that your logic also applies to Umiko, guess she best start sending out her resume as well.

You know, for someone who just argued over someone stating that "no company would ever do this," you seem to be under the impression yourself that every company works the same way.

Oh, come on, that's not remotely close to what I said. Someone gave an absolute, I said that there are plenty of companies the break that rule so what holds Eagle Jump to that rule? Hell, it's shown that they won't fire someone for being a bit aggressive, Hazuki will forgive them for all their faults as long as they are cute.

What I really don't understand about all the Hajime criticism is, how else did you expect the situation to go? Say Momo hadn't spoken up and Hajime had submitted the first rework to Hazuki as is. Hazuki is really sharp about that stuff, so do you really expect she'd have just accepted it? She'd most likely have found it lacking and told them to try a bit more to make it more unique and fun. And then Hajime would have to go and figure out what was missing before she could ask for a rework. It would have caused even bigger delays.

Are you serious? How do you not see where the Hajime criticism is coming from? The fact that she clearly failed to design the mini-game well in the first place. Again, even all the changes made to it weren't even her own thoughts. She is failing as a game designer which is leading to delays no matter if it's Hazuki or the rest of the team giving suggestions.

Unless you're just expecting Hajime to get everything perfectly right the first time she does it. Which is kind of a delusional expectation of someone in a creative field. Not even the head designer with all of the experience can manage that.

And that's why the other team members will have to have the designers take responsibility when they have to make changes. But I guess Naru asking Hajime to take responsibility is an unforgivable sin. How dare she demand leniency when she has no control over the problems other team members cause?

Wow, was really hoping for this not to go the cliche bullshit route, guess I overestimated Ejima.

The bullshit off screen death aside, the manga has gone right in the shitter. It's become really obvious how the author is just padding and adding in bullshit just to pump out more volumes to sell. It's Bleach all over again, the plot makes no sense at this point. I have lost all interest in finishing it, couldn't even make it through season 2 after catching up on the manga.

"But of course I'd avoid demonic fusion in the bedroom" She turned her down with class lol

"I'd" == "I would" == in context it's past tense and therefore leaves possibilities for the future. ;)

"Would" doesn't really have tense, especially when compacted to "I'd"; without being able to cross reference the original, I got the impression it was meant absolutely. Not to say it won't change: she did have to tell herself it was nothing more than a thank-you rather hard there.

Except it's right after a series of activities she did with Mimmit that she enjoyed in the past, all were past tense.

Besides, don't take everything that ends with ;) so serious.

Except Nene wasnt fine. She was still full of herself from being accepted despite lack of skill while not having any real motivation besides coding for fun. She didnt even have the motivation to go above and beyond with her maze game until Naru said something.

Everyone talks about Naru being fired but Umiko doesn't seem phased by how she worked with Hajime. If you irritate them, Naru will have an attitude, Umiko will shoot you with a pellet gun. Yet, its Naru who people think should be fired.

"But of course I'd avoid demonic fusion in the bedroom" She turned her down with class lol

"I'd" == "I would" == in context it's past tense and therefore leaves possibilities for the future. ;)

sigh well I guess harem route is where we're going with this huh?
probably time to drop this

Yes, drop it despite the fact that several people have said that harem is not where this is going. It's a finished series, 3 volumes, the raws are out there somewhere.

I have no reason to doubt that you know how a real-life company works. As has been suggested several times already, if New Game were a documentary about a real-life company, or if New Game presented itself as a template for how a real-life game company should operate, your main argument about how readers should perceive Naru would be plausible. But since the distinction between actual contemporary business practices and those of a fictional storyworld seems to be irrelevant to you, there's not much more left to say.

I'm not the one who tried bringing in actual business practices. Just refuting someone who stated that Naru would have been fired if it were a real business because of her attitude towards senior team members, but I guess following the whole thread to see the context of the conversation is a little too much to ask for.

And how is Eagle Jump treating you?

You can try to be a smart ass all you want, but when people start making absolute claims such as "no company would to X" and I work for a very successful company that does X then I'm going to call them out.

Wow, you really do know everything.

No, just the company I work for.

Also the first article has a reply from Amazon blatantly calling some of the claims false. Now do you believe the company that is being called evil the the ex-employees who were probably mad for being fired for something other than what they claimed to be fired for?

Me? I'm just going to believe me own knowledge and experiences.

last edited at Sep 6, 2017 11:42AM

unless you think Amazon is a really shitty company

Um, . . .

https://www.theverge.com/2015/8/15/9159309/you-probably-dont-want-to-work-for-amazon
http://www.salon.com/2014/02/23/worse_than_wal_mart_amazons_sick_brutality_and_secret_history_of_ruthlessly_intimidating_workers/

The Times has uncovered several cases where workers who were sick, grieving, or otherwise encumbered by the realities of life were pushed out of the company. A woman who had a miscarriage was told to travel on a business trip the day after both her twins were stillborn. Another woman recovering from breast cancer was given poor performance rankings and was warned that she was in danger of losing her job.

Yeah, calling bullshit since I know of a current employee who was hit by a truck and is currently in a coma that is still on payroll.

With Walmart’s and Amazon’s business model, the workplace practices that raise employee productivity to very high levels also keep employees off balance and thus ill placed to secure wage increases that match their increased output.

This is also just plain false seeing as how you got bonus compensation depending on how often you attend work and how productive your warehouse is.

These two articles don't make much sense if you have actually worked at Amazon.

last edited at Sep 6, 2017 11:06AM

Wow. You must have worked for some really shitty companies. Maybe we're just talking at cross-purposes here: It's maybe ok telling her senior workers what's wrong. But it's definitely NOT ok to get cocky with them. Setting aside this wishy-washy company in the manga, in real live if I'm the manager and encourage this attitude by some non hired "bitch" I'd simply have to take into account that the majority of my hired senior staff wouldn't want to work with her. That's just human and something I have to take into account when evaluating her. It's a game company. Not some shitty office job where everyone sits in a booth and doesn't know who's sitting besides them. Teamwork IS crucial. If I can't get my ppl to work as a team, THAT'S "piss poor management".

Wow, it's like you don't even fully read what I type, unless you think Amazon is a really shitty company. Again, where is the missing teamwork? Nene needed a push to get more serious and Hajime needed to be told that she needed to keep to the schedule. Seems like Naru is management material.

Are we even reading the same manga any more? cO
Naru is working on point with her assignments and doing everything that's assigned to her. If they can't give her more work because the design of the event she's doing changes it's specs it's not her fault - and as mentioned before she has enough papers to back that up. No reason to get cocky with Hajime. She could have just asked her nicely if she could take responsibility for this event. (Not like the changes ain't documented already.)

Are you reading the same manga. She literally asks who will be responsible for the game being late. She then explains her circumstances and then they apologize to each other. Re-read it if you have already forgotten.

What? Screwing over your teem and increasing the workload is how teamwork is done? Holy crap... I wouldn't like to have YOU on my team. cO

What? Yeah, increasing the work load isn't how teamwork is done, that's exactly why Hajime should be responsible. She's increasing Naru's work load.

That's exactly what I mean about "rushing and not caring about the finished product". Naru rushes her assignments and doesn't care about something beeing wrong with them. She even tells Hajime AFTER programming it exactly what is wrong with the minigame and still complains about having to do it all over. She get's cocky with her co-workers-to-be and then gives a shit about what she's doing just to get done with it.

Again, re-read the chapter. It's obvious you are a little fuzzy. Naru has absolutely no problem with re-doing it a second time after Hajime tells her that being a little late is fine. It's only after she as asked to re-do a third time does she become irritated about it being so late.

I don't think it's wrong for her working for her evaluation. But I DO think it's wrong JUST working for her evaluation and giving a shit about the finished product when she's working for eagle jump - a company that - as far as we know - cares heavily about their games. Your last point however I don't get. Programmes won't do anything not designed by others, as there simply isn't anything - maybe but the game engine itself - that get's programmed without being designed in one way or another. Following your argument, Naru - or any other programmer - would never get credit for anything they're doing.

Once again, it's one little mini-game that was suppose to be done in a month. If Hajime had designed it well the first time then it would have been easy and done with, then there was a rework that Naru had no problem doing as long as she wasn't going to get in trouble, then the third one she had no problem doing as long as she was not responsible since she wasn't actually hired yet and was on much thinner ice. I don't get why you can't understand the pressure she is under.

What are you on about? She would be evaluated on how well the mini-game ran, how well it fit the laid out design, how many errors it had, and how fast she was able to do it. There's plenty of credit she can earn but if the game is late after constantly being redesigned then it will be more rushed to hit the deadline and more prone to errors. The actual design of the game, the type of game being played, or how fun the game is has nothing to do with her programming ability.

Do you not understand what being able to work as a team is? If they already have a good idea of her skill, they'll care more about how well she fits in. Even if they do judge purely on how well programmed it is, having more complex mechanics added to it gives more chances to show that off.

So explaining problems to your teammate is not good teamwork these days? Letting your teammate drag you around is good teamwork? Wow, news to me.

That is 100% assumption. You have no idea what criteria they are looking for in their evaluation. You can keep claiming it, but there is no basis for it to be any more factual than any other interpretation. And given Umiko's reaction upon being notified, she basically expected things to go that way.

It's an assumption that they are going to evaluate how well she does her job? You're joking, right?

What the hell are you talking about? Umiko never gave her any deadline at all. The only deadline ever referenced is one given from the company itself, because it has to be done in time to be put into the actual game before shipping. Nene is the only one Umiko gave a deadline to, and it wasn't even a hard deadline. Just a "try and get it done in this amount of time." I don't know where you are getting any of these facts you keep claiming, because none of this is actually written anywhere in the manga.

"But I won't be able to finish it before the final deadline..."

I know you're the TL so I'm just going to assume your memory is just a little fuzzy. So they passed the deadline, which was before Nene's deadline, which was about 1 month, hmm...

What? Teamwork is not telling someone else there could be a problem with their work until after everything is finished, and then blaming the delay on that person for not figuring it out on their own? What definition of teamwork could that possibly fall under? What are you even trying to claim here?

What the hell are you talking about? She is pointing out Hajime's faults, stating why she is under greater pressure. She is telling the truth so that they can work past the issues, hence why they then apologize to each other right after.

last edited at Sep 6, 2017 1:06PM

Her entire assignment is to make a minigame to be included in the final product. That is the entirety of what her hiring will be evaluated by. If the minigame ends up being too uninteresting and is cut from the game, she would have failed that assignment in the most literal sense.

Do you not understand what a programmer is? She would only be evaluated on how well programmed the event is, not how well designed it is. Nene is being evaluated on a game that isn't even going to be in the final product.

I don't know where you're getting this "only getting one project done is going to ruin her evaluation" thing. At no point did anyone say they'd be graded on how much work they get done. Just on how well they perform on their assigned task.

Of course they are going to evaluated on how much work they can do. If they are wasting 3 months on a mini game then they will be seen as a slow team that will have nothing but delays. If they didn't care about time then no publisher would work for the company since it would take half a decade for them to put out a single game.

No, that's where you are fundamentally wrong. It is in fact 100% irrelevant if she is right or wrong. A lowly intern on probation getting cocky with hired full time employees and on top of that not being able to work with a team means your out. In any company that relies heavily on teamwork like a gaming company "solo players" are simply not needed. I get it that you really like Naru, but realistically spoken: if she doesn't get her act together no company would hire her after her probation.

It definitely matters 100% whether she is right or wrong. If you are prioritizing seniority over an efficient work schedule then you're a piss poor manager. You keep saying that no company would hire her when I have worked at companies that highly encourage her attitude. This idea that seniors need to be respected when they do something wrong does nothing but cement issues and cause nothing but problems.

Again: I'm sorry, but you're absolutely wrong. Naru has exactly ONE assignment to do at the moment. Her utmost priority is to do THIS assignment an nothing else. Sure, a poorly designed event would fall on Hajime, but I don't see a single reason why not getting done more work in 3 Months would fall on her if the company doesn't assign more work to her. In fact if her colleagues-to-be evaluate her work and all they can tell is that Naru tried to rush through every work assigned to her and not caring about the finished product just to get it done, instead of her finishing her given task(s) with the quality the company is know for - I don't know if THAT'S an evaluation Naru likes to have.

What are you on about? You are not making any sense what so ever. Naru has only been given one assignment because she hasn't finished the first one she was given. Now a 1 month long assignment is turning into 3 months, just for one little mini-game. Since they gave her only a 1 month deadline Umiko planned on giving her more work right after but now there are going to be further delays. And what you are going on about rushing? She did her work just fine, she didn't rush anything. In fact it was Hajime who rushed, came up with a poorly designed event and is now delaying the game in order to fix it. Naru is a great programmer and does her job well, it's Hajime that is doing a poor job that is causing delays.

To be honest: Hajime felt something is "wrong" with the minievent but couldn't point out what exactly. BUT Naru is the first who found the "error" of the game having only 2 characters playing. Despite the fact it felt wrong to her, she never told anyone and just programmed it anyway. Afterwards, after telling Hajime and co about it she complains about programming it all again. That's not really how teamwork's done.

That's exactly how team work is done. You keep going on about Naru not being a productive part of the team but it's Hajime who is stringing a coworker for months on one mini-game.

The second Problem wasn't really a thing before they added more characters. Even Hajime didn't found anything wrong with the second version until Momo mentioned Peco's face being visible. And right after that the conversation between Naru and Momo shows that she really doesn't care about the event anyway and just wants to get it done. Like I've said before: Naru doesn't work for the game, she works solely for her evaluation.

Yes, she is working for her evaluation because she hasn't actually been hired. Why do you think it's so wrong of her to care about whether she actually gets hired? She is there to show off her programming skills, if she is being forced to work on one mini-game she can't do that. Even if the mini-game is the best in the game Hajime will get all the credit, Naru doesn't get anything out of the mini-game being designed well.

last edited at Sep 3, 2017 2:07AM