I hate the trope in 90% wlw content ever where they show two queer women can't be friends, they need to jump each other and have some sort of sexual tension or love triangle drama between them. It's obvious that the director or writer whatever is a creepy straight dude or an oblivious straight woman. I wish there was some wlw content where the two women act as each other's wingwomen, like normal bffs, instead of eye sexing each other at every opportunity. As a gay gal with a bi best friend, I feel very underrepresented.

You and @matsuri_wins would make the greatest frienemies I feel.

I hope you are happy that I waste my time for writing this obvious arguments.

I would be much happier if you used logical arguments instead tbh. Or at least good ones.

^ Considering that even more hardline of a Midori x Manaka shipper than I am, I'm surprised that you haven't mentioned something about them in your comment.

Excuse moi? Midori x Manaka transcends sexuality and gender.
By which I mean, even if they both became straight guys, they would still be girls called Midori and Manaka. And they would still be yuri icons. Not even the narrative dictated by the author itself can affect this constant across the multiverse!

After all, Naktani does not write a story about Midori and Manaka, nay, she merely receives information from the YagaKimi verse that tells her what Midori and Manaka are actually doing. And thus she was so moved by the purity of their union that she could never misrepresent them in any way.

last edited at Jun 12, 2019 5:06PM

The one thing that I really, really respect about this story is that the author doesn't use "labels". Not once do I remember any mention of gay, lesbian, homosexual, or even yuri. Sure, there was the occasional, "both girls," but that was it, unless the translations skipped it. (Please correct me if this is the case.) You could take either character, Yuu or Touko, change their sex, and it would still work. I'm a person who dislikes labels. I don't identify with anything, so this story has been a fantastic read for me.

While it's true that YagaKimi has universal appeal, because the core idea has no focus on any sexuality in particular, there are just realisticially certain specific issues involved with each different sexuality, so it's not really avoidable in the long run. Nakatani purposely focused on the "What does it mean to be in love?" aspect over any other issue.

Now for the actual labels... Sayaka talked about it once, regarding her first love and girlfriend I think. And I could swear Miyako mentioned it too.

I find this distaste for labels a bit silly though, because regardless of what you call them, they are still the thing. When a woman is worried of whether the other likes women (Miyako) that's because she is a lesbian and Riko might have been straight. She doesn't need to call herself that, we know that's the reason. That's why labels exist and are there. Rather than labels they are definitions of circumstance.
Touko and Yuu might be interchangable gender wise (that is definitely a big unknown), but the same definitely doesn't go for any other couple in the story. Sayaka only likes girls, so turning Touko into a guy would have made her interest drop to zero. Miyako only likes women, so if Riko had been a man... etc. etc.

last edited at Jun 12, 2019 4:39PM

On a different note, Miki-chan's sister is the leader of the band, huh? Aki was it?
They sure don't look alike.

EDIT: Wait... they both have beauty marks. Miki-chan below her mouth and Aki next to her eye. Interesting.

last edited at Jun 12, 2019 2:43PM

(collapse) You literally used quotation marks around the word "ignorant" when referencing me. That's what quoting is.

Quotation marks are used for many things. For example if I say that sure sounds great, you take it as it is. If I write: That sure sounds "great", you see it as sarcastic or different from its actual meaning. I paraphrased what you said, not actually quoted it. If I wanna quote something I usually do.

I'm curious, and this is not (just) a rhetorical device, I would honestly like to know: When you google "SS" what comes up first?

United States Social Security Filing. No joke.

Either way, by definition, they are behaving as if they are oblivious to the possible association which definitely factually exists. That isn't an insult, criticism, or value judgement, like you seem to think it is. It's just an observation.

Or they are purposely ignoring it, because it is irrelevant. A person is not oblivious just because they ignore a different irrelevant context. Your sky comparison is irrelevant too, because there are only a couple of sky colors, but in this case SS has thousands, which are all used far more commonly than SturmStaffel. There is probably a soda with SS on it and most students would associate it more with that than some historical fact. This sure is dumb.
PS: If you are done with a topic... don't ask questions in the same reply.
PPS: I am done for real tho.

last edited at Jun 12, 2019 2:35PM

^I dearly hope you meant to say Satsuki x Nonon there.

ch 13.5, pg 6 "sobnot"

Anybody know what that means?

so + not

The word ignorant has meanings that confer a lack of education or intelligence, while oblivious is more neutral. Ignorant is more often used as an insult. I choose my words very deliberately, and when you quote someone you are supposed to use their own words.

And if your point stands, then I'm not understanding what your point is. If the author did not consider the Nazi association of the acronym, which I doubt they did, they are, by definition, oblivious to the implications. That doesn't mean they're "ignorant" of Nazi history or why Nazis are bad, or anything like that, it just means they weren't paying any attention to the possible association. They clearly didn't mean it as a Nazi reference, it's just a little unfortunate that they chose a name that has that association.

Why are we arguing about this?

Well it's a good thing I didn't quote you then.

My point, as you should have easily garnered, was that this abbreviation has no Nazi connotations in daily use. It's used for literally thousands of other things. The author is not oblivious , because there was never any reason to associate it with Nazis in the first place. It was neither an issue nor an oversight. Only some random people on the internet here would even come to that conclusion. Satisfied?

You can stop any time.

If you're going to use quotes, at least use a word I actually said. I didn't call anyone ignorant, I said "oblivious". Y'know, unaware or unconcerned? Since several people seemed to not realize what Ranzo was talking about, I think it's an apt description.

Because ignorant doesn't mean "unaware"? Now that's just pedantic.
You called the author oblivious as well though. So my point stands.

Maa-chan: Daga kotowaru!

There goes my side-pairing.

Jesus christ end this pointless manga already.

Even if they won't, I hope you find the courage to move on with your life.

Or at least from this comment section.

@BV Sorry, I tend to delete junk data when I format my brain at night.

We need to misunderstand each other fairly regularly, it seems. Sorry.

But as my KPop band link suggests (along with that image that was posted, and Girls und Panzer, etc)., the pop cultures of the Pacific Rim do get up to some weird and sometimes clueless shit in regard to WW2 and fascist imagery.

(I mean, as a word in itself “Gestapo!” would make a pretty cool band name.)

Misunderstandings are in the nature of communication through text I fear.

Yeah, I'm not denying that pop culture these days has a very skewed view on WW2, especially in countries who did not participate. And Japan in particular was always very friendly towards their former German allies. It's hard to find such universally dislikable, yet convenient villains as the Nazis (America loves them in video-games). Nazisploitation may never end... I mean they were really snazzy dressers.

Maybe people wouldn't like it as much if they had to say Geheime Staatspolizei. Kind of a mouthful.

Ahem, anyway, Yori isn't even an actual part of the SS Girls, so let's not think about that too much. I wonder if she seriously carries that guitar to school every day... where does she even put it during classes?

last edited at Jun 12, 2019 10:18AM

For God’s sake, BugDevil, no one has been claiming that Nazism was actually the intended reference. Readers just noted their own first reactions (since we were given no context for what “SS” might actually stand for). People were just goofing on it after that.

In the context of the story, that business about ship names is no more, or less, likely than a WW2 Nazi reference.

For the flying spaghetti monster's sake, Blastaar, did that post sound like it was serious? Just how bad is my humor that even that can be taken straight?

Yeah no, I wasn't saying they were actual marine travel afficianados either... just pointing to a certain Divine Jogger's "ignorant" line and saying SS is a common abbreviation.

last edited at Jun 12, 2019 9:10AM

Well, yes and no:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Girls

SS Girls (Italian: Casa privata per le SS) is an Italian Nazi exploitation film by director Bruno Mattei. The film is about a brothel where traitors of the Nazi high command are eradicated. To help the brothel out, a Nazi commander, involved in intelligence work, enlists the aid of scientists who train various prostitutes to sexually satisfy the desires of the Nazi high command and root out any traitors.

Of course! It is all so clear now! These Japanese High School Girls (TM) were just really huge fans of super niche 70s Nazisploitation porn movies. Either that or they really love watching Cinema Snob reviews.

I take it aaaaaall back. Such an obvious reference. I wouldn't even be surprised if they put Swastika stickers on their schoolbags now.

last edited at Jun 12, 2019 8:57AM

Funny author’s note describing her two selves: “Dark Kodama” (“Soap Opera, Jealousy, Heavy”) and “Light Kodama” (“Gentle Romance, Silly Humor, Boobs”), but noting “Dark Kodama draws boobs, too.”

Boobs are the universal constant, even across split personalities.

At least she knows that her writing is severely bipolar...

I mean SS is actually a ship prefix too...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_prefix

And damn if there aren't thousands of things abbreviated with SS. It's not "ignorant" to use SS for anything. Unless Nazi themes are actually present, there is nothing wrong with it and it's a bit weird that so many people jumped on that.

Touko helped Yuu with her studies

Rather, she did it because she wanted to be with her, and this was a good excuse. She did it not because it was important for Yuu to pass the exam well.

Now you are just putting intentions into Touko's actions that you cannot possibly prove. There is no reason to think she doesn't want to help Yuu have good grades.

she gave her the mini-planetarium projector as a present from her trip.

Yes, this is probably the only moment. But it is not indicative, because gifts can be given to friends.

Which makes pretty much no difference... especially because Touko was already in love with Yuu.

And although many of her requests start out selfish, she inadvertently helped Yuu grow as well. Joining the student council, becoming a campaign assistant, acting in the play... those are all things Yuu initially opposed, but helped her become more independant and outgoing.

And most importantly, she taught Yuu how to love.

In all these moments, she didn’t care what Yuu wanted. Even when Yuu said she didn’t want to do this, Touko insisted.
Remember the moment when she became agitated when Yuu said she was happy. She didn’t care about Yuu’s feelings, and she herself acknowledges this in Chapter 34 when she apologizes. She herself admits that she used Yuu. Is Touko so selfish that she uses a loved one instead of sacrificing her own interests for her sake?
Just for me, the word "love" = "I want all the best for you." Touko loved, but she didn’t care what a loved one feels ...
I can't remember the moment when she did for Yuu that which doesn't coincide with her interests. Whereas Yuu did this for her many times (speech, joining the student council, the play).
I can only explain this by the fact that Touko's unhealthy psyche turned her love into such an attitude.

We already had this discussion ages ago, matter of fact is that Touko did not intentionally overstep any boundaries and tried her hardest to make Yuu not hate her. She definitely cared about Yuu's feelings way more than you are giving her credit for here.
There is nothing wrong with helping someone in your own self-interest. That is just how humans work... even just wanting the other to be happy is a self-interest.

On the flipside, Yuu didn't do these things just out of utalitarianism either. The reason she even agreed to this "fake relationship" with Touko was entirely selfish. She wanted to learn what love is. She used Touko's affection for that purpose. In the process she saw Touko's issues and due to their connection felt it necessary to help her.

Now you could say most of these aren't intentional, but a give and take relationship is often not direct. Yuu gets what she needs out of Touko, just like Touko does out of Yuu.

When Yuu confessed. This is the moment when she really needed a concession from Touko, so that she sacrificed her interests and at least gave Yuu a chance to love. But what did Touko do? Nothing. She didn't think she might hurt Yuu. She really didn't care about her feelings.

That's so incredibly wrong... Did you not see Touko's anguish? How she tried to reach out but couldn't? Why are you acting as if she was just callously denying Yuu's feelings because she didn't care? This was tied to her insecurities and she tried her best to figure out what to do afterwards. You suggest she just cast aside the thing that has defined her life for so long all of a sudden?
I think you're trying a bit too hard to portray Touko as intentionally cruel here.

last edited at Jun 12, 2019 6:39AM

BugDevil
June 10, 2019 4:10AM
Hm. Someone who feels this guilty just from sniffing hair never has the mental fortitude to go further.

As a woman, and ex- (mostly lifelong) Christian, that is not the case. I'll feel guilty feeling good from sniffing someone's hair, and the think fuck it, smells/feels so good and we're on a bed and I'm not Christian and neither are you, so let's go further. It was consensual btw.

Guilt can coincide with going further. Just look at the world we live in; it's not hard to find examples.

Uhh... thanks for the elaborations. My point was rather that Hino's guilt encumbers her boldness.
As a non-ex-non-Christian I can safely say that I have no idea what she will ask for, but she sure won't be sucking those breasts.

This the best thing I've seen all day. Hopefully these nasuverse works that aren't fate-centered means that tsukihime 2 or at least a tsukihime remake is closer than before~ Oh please let it be closer.

I actually got the date for the release of the Tsukihime Remake right here!
never

Curse you Nasuuuu!

last edited at Jun 12, 2019 4:29AM

Expert counselors are standing by should you have any questions.

I would like to purchase one counselor please. Maybe they can help me get over the stress of having to wait for new chapters.

Pretty much what I figured Miki's situation was. Her childhood friend just acts like a bystander, but I kinda get that too. Some people don't want to confront anything.

I wonder if these two can ever be reconciled....

So this was uploaded here, huh? Strange. Well I suppose Sion always had some subtext with Ricebeef and Satsuki, but still not really fit for a yuri site.

Anyway, I do really love this spin-off. Tsukihime/Melty Blood always had far more interesting stories than the Fate side of things and this crossover is actually rather brilliant. Who would ever think the Neco-Arcs are actually plot relevant? lol

This is definitely better than DW getting their grubby hands on Tsukihime characters and forcing them into the gacha. Already this story pays more respect to Olga and Lev than FGO did.

Oh and having Rani be relevant is also nice. She was not the most popular choice in Extra.

It seems Melty Blood really is Sion's story. She is such a flexible character you can do a lot with. She is also pretty much the only link to Atlas we have in the Nasuverse. Though this seems to take place in a dead-end alternate reality altogether, considering it leans in on all the gags and meta humor of non-canon routes.

I'm curious when more characters will be involved in Sion's alternate realities. Arc, Ciel and Zepia were the only ones yet, aside from the Back Alley Alliance. Considering how important Shiki and Akiha were to her, it's shocking that they didn't appear in one reality yet.

"Subtext"

Yeah, Riesbyfe and Sion sharing a delicate kiss is subtext, haha.

Well in the story you can wave it away as her just transfering more Tatari power into Ricebeef though. Albeit her tears should speak for themselves...

last edited at Jun 12, 2019 4:00AM

Cheating is just the worst. As are unhappy marriages that cause it. Seen this a hundred times and it doesn't really get any better. Well unless there is some outlandish twist, this is certainly a no-no for me.
Not getting my hopes up for chapter 2, but stranger things have happened.