Forum › Posts by Klice
Is this normalizing paedophilia though? I don't know, I'm so lost right now. I'm not trying to cause flame, I just really don't know how to deal with this story ab loli... Please delete this if it causes any trouble.
No, it's just fiction and wishful thinking about a forbidden relationship. I think the facts that Mimika tries to control herself that much and the question of being a lolicon is addressed at least tend to show that even in the world of the story itself, their relationship isn't something that is considered morally acceptable. Even if it was, it's just a story and I don't think it encourages people to have romantic relationship with children.
If she likes Kaede's personality (which kind of contradicts the whole "love at first sight" thing at the start) [...].
Does it? I mean she was entranced by Yuzumori's beauty at first which compelled her to approach her, but afterwards it happened they really connected in terms of personality, either Mimika fell even more in love with her or she began to love her as in not only physical attraction.
last edited at Jan 31, 2018 10:28AM
Now this new women will, idk, probably try to seduce Asuka, then Ayako's "maternal instinct" will activate to protect her daughter and we will have some delicious sinful incest happening.
I have the feeling that the new girl may be interested in the mother instead? It's really confusing at the moment, for me.
last edited at Jan 30, 2018 11:42PM
[...] while Mei sexual assaulting Yuzu is portrayed at romantic.
That's the feeling I got while reading the manga, but the anime made it way more uncomfortable and longer with an ominous music, showing that it was definitely not okay even in terms of in-world logic; and even if it made a strong impression on Yuzu.
In a way, I think the anime made me understand what was that scene about : Mei showing Yuzu what it is to be forcefully kissed just like she was, kind of lashing out at her for her taunting about the kiss.
last edited at Jan 30, 2018 3:00PM
She was desperate to make them break-up, you don't make sense when you're desperate... This is even more apparent when we see how crazy she was about the big sister - it was already quite obvious in the other story.
last edited at Jan 29, 2018 9:18AM by Nezchan
Chapter 39 is out, and I'm running out of room for this goddamn chart.
Errr, I'm pretty sure Ayaka has a full-on crush on Yurine since chapter 1, it is a tsundere crush so I guess the red makes sense, but I don't know.
Thanks for the hard work, anyway!
last edited at Jan 29, 2018 9:16AM
I disagree.
Not saying it's not her fault, but do you always deserve the things you impose to yourself? Do self-loathing character deserve the suffering they impose on themselves? Most of the times, it's kind of unfair.. Although, I can understand the general incomprehension or disdain.
Otherwise, I agree completely that she is imposing it on herself, but what to do when your life goals clash with your love life...
"Realistic" is way too often used as a lazy way to instantly dismiss criticism. Realism is also a really low bar to pass.
It's also a lazy way to criticise a story if you don't like it, "it's not realistic that they behave like this or end up with them, boo hoo hoo". Basically, it should be a big no-no. I used it between double quotes because it gives a vague idea of what I was thinking and I was too lazy to specify that it was low-key level of drama (no over reaction like in melodramas, not that I don't like melodrama) comparable to a situation that I could witness or that I have witnessed directly.
In my defence, I wasn't using it as a critic nor a praise, just as an observation of how the story could continue based on what happened.
What drives me up the wall is when people claim that e.g. a manga where the whole conflict hinges on a bunch of teenagers not communicating properly, is "good because it's realistic". It's like, cool, but that's a completely trivial concept. If that's all the story has to offer, it's not good.
I don't know about that. If this is what people want/like, how could it be not good? I love seeing character struggle even if they just had to talk or stuff, because I can relate, because I also had difficulty to express my feelings, my insecurities and stuff, and it could act as catharsis or something similar.
What bothers me, though, on that subject, is the idea that simple or not very complex equals bad. That's not true.
last edited at Jan 29, 2018 1:47AM
He would need to have another child which is totally impossible if we don't want to add complications.
I don't know Yuzu's mother age, but why not make her and Shou finally fall in love and give Mei and Yuzu a little brother? Mei would still have to forget her goals... Or she could act as an intendant for the time he comes of age and still run the school from the shadow afterwards!
And imagining that the happy end would be Yuzu being Mei's secret mistress is to be excluded. Yuzu's nindo, life's conception is to live without hiding who she is, without barrier so she wouldn't agree.
On that, I completely agree, even if it would look like the perfect compromise considering Mei's goals.
last edited at Jan 27, 2018 10:34AM
Gramps gave the teacher the okay to eventually bang Mei, he did not such thing for Yuzu.
Because that's where our opinions differ. He didn't gave the okay to the professor to bang Mei before their marriage, the expression consuming a marriage isn't there for anything, nor is the notion of virginity as a sense of purity and worth. But since you seem to consider arranged marriage as the work of Satan Himself, I guess you'll make everything that happened in this context okay, so it's useless to argue about it.
Besides, last time I checked age of consent in Japan ranges between 16 and 18 without parental approval.
There's a difference between morals and the laws, even if they do overlap.
You would have to be a complete moron to believe the two are not connected, do you think the students and their parents of the prestige academy are really that stupid?
You don't understand, it's public image, not literal truth. Obviously everybody at school understood that, but the general public doesn't know, so the official story is still that nothing happened and nobody will spill the beans. It just becomes a secret or a rumour of the school, not what happened in the records. Public order is paramount in Japan.
He left to go travel the world because he couldn't handle the pressure and responsibility put on him, it was even enough to have him abandon his own daughter.
That's not the father directly putting pressure on the son, it's just the situation of the school and the society they are in. After all, the son was free to leave everything behind and ruin his daughter's sense of self to indulge himself on his quest for enlightenment. I don't think he could have if the grandpa was the manipulating devil tyrant you paint him to be.
Yes, a social encounter to present his granddaughter like a pristine mare ready for breeding.
Public image and stuff. It's not because you make everything to succeed in a job interview or a business meeting that you have to accept the deal even if things turn out well, but you still have to uphold your own reputation and image. And be respectable, that's standard etiquette.
Spent the minimal amount of money doing a background check on the dude. Yuzu found out everything in only a couple of days. Gramps is suppose to be filthy rich, yet couldn't afford a PI to make sure his granddaughter wasn't marrying a scumbag.
Maybe the scumbag was smart enough to hide everything, maybe he appeared as somebody respectable. Public image is a thing in Japan, I suppose it would be rude to dispute somebody's word without concrete stuff. Perhaps he was somebody the grandpa knew to be respectable and trusted him without knowing everything about him, since he trusted him to work in his school before that.
No, he clearly doesn't care about his family since he already engaged his daughter to an abusive creep who was going to rob her. Why do you want to gloss over this fact?
Because he didn't know. Why can't you understand that?
He can tell his granddaughter whatever he likes, fact is that she didn't going to meeting by herself.
She is accepting it, it's for her own goal which is inheriting the school. If she said no, she probably wouldn't have to go.
He was the one who set it up, he was the one who picked her up, escorted her, told her everything she needed to know about the dude she might marry.
He is the one arranging the meeting, this isn't for a love marriage (that stuff is for the poor). And what would you have preferred? That he left her completely in the dark and say again "okay you'll have to marry this dude, deal with it" and just dragged her with him? Yeah, maybe something along "that's already what he's doing" or "he shouldn't have forced her (which he did not) and let her do whatever she likes with her life (what he asked her to do)"; it's not his fault if his granddaughter is still willing (atm) to go along with all this stuff for the school and her family's sake.
And then Mei goes and cries in the corner when everything is all said and done, because grandpa is a prick that is ruining his family's lives.
Because Mei is torn between following her life goals and following her love life with her step-sister; two things which aren't compatible, that's the core of the story right now. Grandpa's not ruining anything, only Mei's making herself cry at this moment, she would just have to leave like Shou and everything would be over; what would probably happen, unless she manages to make her love life with Yuzu continue on the side of her marriage, or inherit the school without marriage which is a possibility but I'd have a hard time understanding it given the social context.
Yes, and in the fine print it seems like inheriting the school requires being sold like a piece of meat.
As long as you keep trying to apply your own individualistic and idealistic views of how a life should be spent on this situation, you won't be able to understand why she has to marry a man and build a family to run her grandpa's school, and why the grandpa has to be the one organising it. Hate the game, not the player, as they say.
Who the fuck care about the family living on if no one in the family is happy?
That's the problem right there. Being happy doesn't bring you any money, any power, any prestige. That's where your point of view clashes with the point of view of Mei (and her grandpa's, and Tywin's) about the school. You put the individual's happiness above all, Japanese (or rich people) put the group and society above the individual. There is a thing called duty, working for something above yourself and your own happiness.
Grandpa's constructed something that gives his family money and power, and he wants the thing he has constructed to continue so his heirs would have the same advantages : he wants to build legacy. Something concrete that matters in society, not something fickle like individual enjoyment that ends when you die or when you stop actually enjoying it.
About the bad example, I said he was bastard, but that his point of view on the family's legacy made sense, meaning individual quarrels, preference or whatever don't matter over time. Giving an example that he was a cruel bastard is useless, since I already admitted it and I'm not comparing Grandpa to him, anyway. And he's talking about the family as a name, a legacy almost as company, not the traditional family with a mother and a father.
@ klice : the grandfather’s quote from volume 1 is in fact a mistranslation. A japanese speaking anon on /u told that the japanese meant something like « you are free to do what you want for a time ». The grandfather seems to give a limited free time to Mei but also reminded her that she’ll have soon to be back to follow her duty.
Ah well, I don't have the French translation next to me (I'd guess they translated from English, probably), but after three sources telling the exact same thing, I'd have thought it was a valid translation. However, I don't know about the legitimacy of our dear anon, but that doesn't change the fact that he cares for her to some degree in my mind.
Anyway, i think he lets her choose but at the same time she feels obligated to do so because she’s thankful to him. A part of him probably knows that she’s cannot dare reject it because she places following her family wishes above everything else.
Like Mei, the grandfather seems conflicted between Mei’s hapiness and the need to assure bloodline for business. Nothing is black or white here, and i like that the chapter 35 shows how different characters like
the manager, Mei and the grandfather have to attune their dilemna.
This is what I'm trying to convey without managing to succeed, apparently. Mei is still a willing participant, so for the grandpa that means that's what she wants and he can respect that even if it would pain him to see her hurt.
And in the end it doesn't matter how you meet others, it's how you treat them after you meet them that counts.
QFT.
last edited at Jan 27, 2018 12:22PM
I still hate that current girlfriend. Not counting the one shot, some people were like "well the other girl took too long to confess or whatever", but the other one was like "she's mine, don't touch her" or whatever when they were already having something. Well, it's still the same, if you wait too long...
Hopefully this one will be full of wish-fufilling stuff after chapters of angst.
The fact is that his FIANCE is the UNDERAGED granddaughter. The grandpa has planned out their future bedroom antics, why would he care that they do it a little early?
I didn't really want to participate, but this one doesn't make sense. Arranged marriage are business or politic arrangements, not prostitution like you claimed; even if I can understand why you'd say that. Having an adult becoming intimate with an underage teenager is morally bad and probably contrary to everything the grandpa believes in.
[...] last time I checked he never gave her the okay to bang Mei like he did with the teacher.
I don't get this either. That sentence actually supports Dark_Tzitzimine's claim about firing (inviting him to resign) the teacher for unsightly behaviour. Grandpa sackedYuzu for sexually assaulting his granddaughter (from his pov) just as he invited the professor to resign after he heard that he French kissed his granddaughter.
Minimize what damages? The whole school already knows what the dude did, Yuzu told everyone. By not publicly firing him gramps give the impression that he's perfectly fine with male teachers preying on students, luckily this one resigned.
Who's to say that Yuzu wasn't spilling a bunch of bullcrap? Firing the teacher directly would have validated Yuzu's claim and tarnished the school reputation. The professor resigned because of "personal reasons", not because "I shamelessly forced myself upon my future bride". Of course, if you look a bit further (and for us) it's clearly to avoid shame and problems.
Just like in other Japanese stories, students transfer because of their parents or personal reasons when it was actually a scandal. Generally, in those stories there's the rumour that surrounds the transfer which happens to be the truth, but the official truth. And that's the point. By not firing him directly, the official truth remains that the professor left for personal reasons and the student was just making dubious claim to have a laugh, after all it was already a problem student from the start, who would believer her? So in the official true side of the story, there was no scandal at Aihara's school and the official reputation is safe.
I think that's a very Japanese mindset when the public order must be maintained even though the situation is a clusterfuck.
He royally fucked up when he drove his own son to abandon the responsibility.
Where are you getting this?
Now he is willing to sell his own granddaughter's chastity to the highest bidder just to save face.
He's saying it's just a social encounter and he's trying to look for a suitable partner for his granddaughter where being married and bearing children is still something expected to happen in his country or at least in his social circle.
He first paired her up with a creep who was going to use Mei to steal the family fortune, [...].
How could he have known that?
He's just another asshole who won't let the people around him live their own lives, all he wants is control and prestige so that he can have the nicest gravestone in the cemetery.
He cares for family and legacy** like UranusAndNeptuneAreJ has been explaining in their posts. It's a different mindset, and I think it's unfair to apply occidental standards to paint him as an irredeemable bastard, while you gladly ignore the moments where he literally told his granddaughter, I quote, volume one, chapter four, official translation :
"Now then, Mei. It's time for you and you alone, to decide how to live your life."*
The bold part is also in the official editing. So yeah, I guess you can disagree with the old man way of life, and have a grudge against this kind of character, but he's clearly not as bad as you paint him to be.
P.S. He's even thanking her to do what she is doing and seems to be try to appease her saying it's just some social encounter. I think this show concerns over Mei's well-being. After that, it's for Mei has to realise what is best for herself, but that's the subject of this volume, I guess.
* ChaosTeam's translation is a bit different, but the idea stays the same, he told Mei that she should live like she wants to. And she is the one who told Yuzu she wants to inherit the school and the she took the decision on her own.
** I'll quote the Lannister father on that subject "It’s the family name that lives on. It’s all that lives on. Not your honor, not your personal glory, family.” Despite being a heartless bastard at times, that sentence actually makes sense if you want to matter in the larger scale of the human world.
last edited at Jan 26, 2018 1:26PM
Comparison between manga and anime of episode 3
Sabouruta makes some really, really nice drawings <3
Can someone kill that a asshole of a husband [...].
No need to got that far, divorces are a thing. It's still pure speculation, but even if Reiichi feels guilty about the situation Kaoru is in, he can still support her while she finds a job or whatever. Since this manga is going the low-key "realistic" route, I guess this would be a possibility.
Was she munching all over her face?! Damn, I can imagine why Mimika seems to be losing it. As Sleekie said, last time she made Mimika look at her was by showing her butt and climbing on her, damn assertive lolis!
Edit Rereading again the chapters, damn the drama during the confession was waaay more heavy than everything that just happened, even if it was defused pretty fast. It shook Mimika character to her very core, love it. It wasn't always fluff!
last edited at Jan 25, 2018 5:40PM
Damn Hotaru is so sweet... With her "don't dismiss my hard work by putting everything on my talent" or something, and then "don't hate your artwork". A true artist that loves what she does.
I wonder if artist must hate on everything they do to progress... I think it's possible to progress while loving what you do, it's not my case, but I envy people who are capable of doing that.
I never thought that Mei was going to cry; do you think that she really is in love with Yuzu.
She already cried numerous time, but not that profusely and with that much intensity. That was Yuzu's thing until now, so I guess Mei is at least as much in love Yuzu than Yuzu was in love with her in the first volumes.
On that subject, I think Mei started to fall in love with Yuzu in the middle of volume 2, during that scene at the cemetery. I think what sealed the deal was the ordeal with the father and their first (loving) kiss. Then came the rings, but the moment she admitted her love and how intense it was, was when she talked with Shirapon, I guess. So yeah, I think Mei is really in love with Yuzu!
I really don't want them to make the guy out to just be a cheating scumbag with no reason. Hopefully, if they do that, they give a really good reason for his cheating, like he was being blackmailed or something by that other woman.
Mistakes happen, divorces are a thing because you can't really know what will happen next and sometimes engagement were a mistake. I think the reason he's cheating, if that's the case, is because the marriage was probably a mistake. That's a bit of stretch but with the neglect, the 7 rejections, the things that happened with Uta's parents, I think he was playing it "safe" or something but, sadly for him and Kaoru, it didn't turn out so well...
Honestly, everyone sucks at communicating in this story, but I think that's what makes it feel so real (and simultaneously, incredibly frustrating). People are like this all the time.
Holy shit, thank you. I'm a bit annoyed to see users say things like "communicate like normal people!!". I get the frustration, I get that sometimes it can be over the top, but more often than not, people don't communicate or very poorly on their issues.
And pretty nice analysis overall.
It feels like he's done a complete 180 from when we first saw him in chapter 1. The event of the accident must've snapped him out of whatever he was in trance about.
I have the feeling that it's like those couples who won't divorce or break up because "they should make it work" somehow, like it's just a phase and they would feel bad if they failed at their marriage (in addition to other stuff as well, probably). Damn, this manga is doing great.
P.S. This has probably been mentioned a million times, but perhaps the unrequited love isn't only Uta's.
last edited at Jan 24, 2018 10:28AM
Lmao manga be so random.
I see what you did there.
Her negative feelings for Mishio are indeed understandable, but understanding and justification are not synonyms. Only way Mishio can be held accountable for Rika's suicide is if she psychologically and/or physically bullied her into it. Like, what the hell, the bitch nurse purposefully used someone's suicide to make a student miserable, how in the world is that justified?? Also, "forgiving". What should she forgive? Granted, we do not know the details, but again, unless Mishio bullied the teacher into suicide (and let us be honest, does anyone see this as even remotely possible?), she is not responsible the latter offed herself, there is nothing to forgive.
My wording was wrong. To be more specific, it is though justified from the nurse's own perspective. When I said she could have been more forgiving, I meant in her spite towards Mishio, as in kinder, less violent if you prefer; once again, from her pov, Mishio is, at least partially, held responsible so there IS something to forgive on her part. I'm not talking about public, religious or broader morals, but something more intimate, more personal. You can hold a grudge against somebody even if morals or laws tell you that you should not, because they hurt you.
I can even go further : the little girl that you think is (partly) responsible for driving your best friend to commit suicide, is in front of you, what is she doing? She is getting all lovey-dovey with another girl only a year or months after said suicide, as if she had already turned the page. But I guess this point was already made clear enough.
More objectively, I don't know enough to judge. Yes, it's clearly unfair, almost despicable depending behind which character you place yourself, to be spiteful toward Mishio since she is clearly suffering because of this. She feels guilty and is deeply affected (self-harm and heavy depression), and I do feel very bad for her having to face this again because of the nurse, but I just wanted to put myself in the nurse's shoes, because she probably suffers as well.
Hopefully, Ena will be the support Mishio needs and the nurse will find way to accept what happened and be at peace.
This is indirectly supported by her dialogue in the flashback, when she turns down Mishio's request to go to the sea [...].
I'm just nitpicking, but she didn't outright turned Mishio's propositions down, she was more dismissive as in "maybe in the future if...", but I agree that it supports the fact that something was wrong. Was it already suicidal thoughts or just an apprehension regarding their situation, like she didn't want to engage too much in the relationship because of its nature; although they just slept together before this discussion, so it may have been a little too late for that...
last edited at Jan 25, 2018 9:18AM
I am guessing, based on the fact that it is written in red paint next to a crossed-out reference to "The Russians", that it is supposed to be a tongue-in-cheek hello from said Russians, delivered in stereotypically broken English.
It's just that the scans came from Arckuno directly this time, but I'm curious about this reference now...