Rainy365
I see, why did she rejected to be taken care in a hospital? And what does she have? If you don't mind talking about it of course. : /

As for hospital from government, I guess most counties public hospitals are not really very good?

oliver
Yeah, I would not go as far as to say the writing is bad, but it's not as good as some people imply, I just think that if they kill Seju instead of finishing her story properly, it'll be really bad writing, like, the writing is already not that good, and like MacySan pointed out some of Sumin actions already feel kind of forced, so if they want they can give Seju a happy end too, almost sure to be Sumin x Sungji as Seju family, maybe Seju end up with Nammi, killing her is pretty much nothing more than laziness for not knowing what to do with her.

last edited at May 7, 2016 8:49PM

Rainy365
Up to nothing I guess, and not busy at all, stepfathe/boss brought a place to put his office, he works with accounting, but some things need to be fixed in there to be more presentable to the public, so it's a mess there, only his desk is in place, not much to say, so I stayed home all this week, so I've being basically watching tv, a little of internet, and playing Demon's Souls and Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen instead of continuing a bunch of games in pause and things to do in pc, that's pretty much the most busy I am lately, maybe monday I'll be back to work.

And you?

moguTL

My point was simply that it's kind of pointless to get that pedantic over the English for Japanese proverb that has no accepted English language equivalent, only various and differing translations of the Japanese version.

Oh, okay then, sorry. o7

Rainy365
Good morning~~, though here is night already, 21:28.

Tamahime

What is with this website and people who have to be right and cannot accept any viewpoints other than their own? "Welcome to internet forums" I guess...

As if you're not pretty much doing the same, don't get all defensive now and try to play victim, cause no one here is attacking you.

Sorry but that's irrelevant, a character don't need to be relatable

How is it objectively irrelevant that many women find the way female characters are depicted in male-oriented media to be problematic?

First of all, it's irrelevant because we're talking about Murcielago, not about male-oriented media in general, and second, like I said before, just because a character is female, or male for that matter, that don't mean they need to be relatable to their gender, or relatable at all.

I wasn't even talking about her killing, but for that matter the most prolific American serial killer had "only" 49 victims; there really isn't an analogue to someone like Kuroko on that front.

Country is irrelevant, and serial killer with highest number had 138 proven victims, possibly a lot more, and if you didn't talk about her killing, why did you say that if we meet someone like Kuroko we need to run? Because besides her being a serial killer there's no reason to run away from her.

I was talking about your assertion that her behavior is characteristic of "butch" lesbians. How many women do you know in real life who run around like horny teenage boys trying to sleep with every woman they see, ogling their bodies, molesting them, and spending their free time watching porn? You seem determined to believe that women like her exist - I'm here to tell you, they don't. She's an over-the-top fantasy character in a fictitious world, and should be enjoyed on that level

Again double standards, why it need to be compared to horny teenage boys? You think teenage girls can't be horny? And people don't even need to be teenagers to be horny, there's a lot of people of both genders and varied sexualities that are adults and horny, woman can also ogle anyone they find attractive, can molest people, and can watch porn in their free time, independent of their sexuality, woman like that can and do exist, just because it's unlikely that don't mean none exist, there's over 7 billion people in the world with more or less half being female, which makes even easier to exist woman like that even if it's minority, also, I never said that those things that make Kuroko a butch lesbian, not to mention that's not all she does.

Also, who are you to say if some kind of people exist or not? Don't try to say that you're a woman, lesbian or butch lesbian because that don't give you the right to deny the existence of anyone just because you think they don't exist, but the main problem with what you said is that you outright admit that she's an over-the-top fantasy character in a fictitious world and should be enjoyed on that level, so why the hell are you complaing that she's not realistic? It don't even need to be her, you won't find real life analogue of any over-the-top character, but that don't mean that you can't find a realistic real life analogue for them.

The fact that the manga features largely female characters doesn't have any bearing on whether or not Kuroko is written believably as a woman. But if you think she is, no skin off my back.

It has bearing because you said that "it's about the author either not being able to write women very well, or choosing a rather pandering approach to writing a woman", I mentioned the other female characters because it shows he knows how to write female characters, and that if he wanted a pandering approach then the other characters would be to for pandering too, as for being believably as a woman, what, you think she would be believably as a man? Kuroko gender is completely irrelevant because she's not a believably human, same for other characters here.

I present to you:

http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/murcielago_ch18#7

Even people who perform well in high-stress situations (e.g. combat) have to deal with or utilize the effects of stress/adrenaline. A person whose very heartbeat doesn't change flying out the window of a skyscraper is utterly fiction. And those very same people often suffer terribly for the things they have to do and witness (heard of PTSD?)

Again you're trying to compare a over-the-top character with real life, it don't even need to be a over-the-top character at all, a lot of manga has unrealistic battle or actions, or high-stress situations and a lot of times the characters who are even normal humans don't react in any reaslitic manner at all, first of all it don't need to be combat to be a high-stress situation or to get PTSD, and people sometimes don't even suffer from PTSD after a high-stress situation, there's a lot of professions that have a lot of high-stress situation and people learn to deal with them, after some time they might not even react to them at all, medics are a good example, and second and most important, Kuroko is not a normal human, she's a psychopath, or sociopath, something like that, a lot of them are completely calm and controlled just like Kuroko, either because they're born like that or because they learned it, not to mention people who are born with or get brain damage, and in case you don't know sometimes Reality Is Unrealistic

I think it's natural for the author to humanize Kuroko as he goes along. The readers feel more affection for her and we want good things for her. This story is more Seinfeld ("no hugs, no lessons") than most so I don't think we're going to see her change completely, but I think the attachment/feelings she is developing for Chiyo are new for her. (Despite her incessant, relentless womanizing on the side).

I don't really think she changed at all, rather we're just seeing more of her, and if any feelings are new it would be mostly her reaction of maybe losing Chiyo, the story implied or outright said, I don't remember, that they're going out for quite some time and that her feelings for Chiyo are genuine, as for humanizing Kuroko, if it's all just to show her in a more humane way then we would not have seeing her raping a girl with a umbrella and then killing she and her two friends, all who are schoolgirls who didn't pose any threat to her.

No.

https://www.mangaupdates.com/authors.html?id=11622

As someone already pointed out, even mangaupdates said it was female, so it's not a surprise I thought it was.

Fanservice is not synonymous with sex scenes (of which there are still at least one every volume). Kuroko's busty frame falling out of her patent-leather minidress these chapters? That's service too. All the busty schoolgirls talking about their breasts? Service. This: http://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/murcielago_ch42#5 Service. But so? I don't want the leopard to change its spots. People who don't want to read a servicey story filled with gory violence shouldn't be reading Murcielago. It's not for them. You don't have to do contortions to try to pretend that this is highbrow entertainment - just accept and enjoy the blunt instrument that it is.

I never said fanservice is synonymous of sex scene, I pointed them out because they're the more blatant fanservice we saw, what I said is that the manga barely has fanservice, the fact that you took a page that has no relevance to the story kind of confirm what I said, but about busty schoolgirls talking about their breasts, so what? Girls can't talk about their breasts anymore without being only for fanservice? And about Kuroko looks, so basically, what you're saying is that Kuroko can never use nice clothes without being for fanservice? And it's not even just Kuroko, most girls are pretty busty and voluptuous, the mangaka could have easily filled it with fanservice if he wanted, but they all dress normally as someone would in real life, even Kuroko new outfit is nothing special or exaggerated, it's something that anyone could use.

The short version is, someone said they didn't consider this "yuri" because the story would not be any different if the main character were a man. I thought that was an interesting point and reminded me of some criticism I'd read elsewhere that I thought would be relevant to discuss in this context. And a bunch of people decided that was somehow an attack on the merits of the series and brought out the torches and pitchforks.

First of all, no one attacked you or brought out the torches and pitchforks, I disagree with this not being yuri and I don't think it would work as well with a male character, I even agreed that countless series we could change the main characters genders with few changes to the plot, the only reason I posted is because you and others implied, maybe not on purpose, or outright said that the only reason this manga is not really yuri and would be the same with a male character is because Kuroko is "not woman enough" or "not a real woman but a man with boobies", which in my opinion is bullshit, for me Kuroko is obviously a woman and she would not be the same as a man, now if you felt attacked by me then I'm sorry, because it was not my intention, if you didn't try to say that Kuroko is "not woman enough" or "not a real woman but a man with boobies" then you should word your posts better, because you can't imply or say something like that and expect to have good reactions.

Well, that was big as always, sorry for the wait, I couldn't do it before.

last edited at May 7, 2016 8:25PM

mvl89

He rarely makes his appearance here.

Su

Guess that's true.

Well, I know you girls miss me, but I can't be here all the time~~. though I admit that in part I didn't show up as much because the thread never stopped, so I didn't had much chance to reply, I can't really do it properly using my phone, neither while I'm on work since I couldn't stop to read everyhing, but now that the thread calmed down I'll try to show up more, shouldn't be hard to reply using my phone or at work now, and I don't think the thread is dying at all, it's like a new toy, in the first days we play non-stop with it, then not as much, but always play with it regularly, I guess without a subject the thread will not be as busy, but I doubt it'll die so soon, at least I hope so, cause it's fun, and I would definitely miss you all... \ (T^T) /

last edited at May 7, 2016 4:09PM

I'm the only one who thinks that if they kill Seju it'll be a sign of bad writing? Cause really, killing a character is just a "easy" way to fix all the problems related to them, because magically Sumin won't have to deal with her, won't have a way to go back to her, and so on, not to mention a really important detail people seens to forget, she outright said she still loves Seju, I doubt it's like family because it would not be as shocking and dramatic, though it's almost sure she will chose Sungji for varrious reasons and just stay as Seju family, but either way, if Seju really dies, can we really say Sumin chose Sungji becuse she loves her, or more because she's the only option left? Cause in my opinion if Sumin will end with Sungji, it need to be because she chose her, not because Seju died, otherwise it would be a really lazy way to end the story.

last edited at May 7, 2016 3:45PM

moguTL

Technically the saying is 出る杭は打たれる, which uses the word "stake", not "nail", so being nitpicky over the English version of it seems really pointless.

I don't know, according to Wikiquote even japanese says that "stake" is incorrect.

出る杭は打たれる
deru kui wa utareru
Translation: The stake that sticks out gets hammered down.
Note: While kui (stake) is sometimes used in place of kugi (nail) some purists point to the incongruity of using "kui" since, in traditional Japanese post and beam house construction, it is physically impossible to hammer a stake flush with the wood, and a stake in the ground would have no structural function.

Maybe I'm just mixing it up, but isn't this proverb also related to the For Want of a Nail proverb?

Ropponmatsu

At this point, I'm unsure if we're discussing grammar, translations, or proverbs... I do think there was some human rights issue being discussed as well... ;x

Why can't we do both?

But really, this makes me remember some otakus with who I talked sometimes in the past, who didn't know shit about japan except some of the good things of it's culture, they thought and acted as if it was some kind of paradise or promised land on earth for otakus, but really, socially it's a pretty fucked up place, I remember reading somewhere that Japan was one of the countries with the least cases of rape, but just like with bullying in practice a lot of it happens, but nothing happens against the criminal and a lot of times the woman is blamed because of how she's dressed, or because it was someone she knew, and a bunch of other bullshit, so a lot don't even report since it goes nowhere, not to mention when they don't do it because of shame.

last edited at May 7, 2016 3:35PM

How long has it been already? I can't really tell anymore, feels like forever...

Nothing express how I'm feeling like this video does, or I'm the only one feeling like Seymour?
I hope that at least some here knows how the scene is even more sad in context...

elthundercat

hmm i think its actually pretty common at least in all the places I've lived and visited > i mostly plan my travels around the "friendliness" of city to Lgbtqq communities, and twinkish lesbians seem to be every where. Ive def. confused a lot of them for Man but hey thats a freaking awesome skill in my opinion. I mean I sometimes want to be a tall lanky andro my self but i was born with a butt so I've adapted. lol

I see, I don't really know how are lgbt places since I don't go anywhere, also, that born with a butt. lol

dofudofu

Good times until someone wants a commitment :P For me it's always been pretty obvious to me what I want from someone I'm interested in and I try to make it abundantly clear what my intentions are, but some times things go bad anyway.

You mean when you don't want anything but the person don't understand it?

Lol born with a butt. Yes there are just some lesbians that look terribly hot when they go andro. They were more of a thing for me when I was younger, but some times I come across one and there's immediate nostalgia haha

Man I would give my butt away to be andro. (T^T)

Well she cracks jokes about lesbians of all sorts, too. Have to have a sense of humor about your own kind lol. I think she just likes reasons to scold me :P

Haha, yeah guess she just like to scold you, what a nice girlfiend. xD

Yeah then isn't that what you think every time one of us says something lol.

Nah, not really, I don't really mind that, it was just that line you said that made me think about it. xD

dofudofu

There are just a lot of lesbians that dress boyishly, and look like cute lanky preteen-to-teenage boys lol. I have on more than one occasion, mistaken an adult lesbian for a boy and a boy for an adult lesbian...

That must be pretty awkward and funny to see, but I guess it's not that hard to happen xD

Because she thinks I'm being an asshole. Which isn't totally inaccurate. But hey, I've probably had my way with more of those boyish lesbians than she has.

Eeeh, I don't know, if you're respectful I don't think you're really being an asshole, it's an honest mistake after all.

Also, that "I've probably had my way with more of those boyish lesbians than she has", that moment, where you find everyone else had something with more girls than you, including other girls, though my number of girls being 0 helps it. xD

last edited at May 4, 2016 8:27PM

dofudofu

Lol it might be funny for one evening :P Except for anybody that fell for ya. I live in an area with a large and open lgbt community and kanojo gets so mad at me when I joke about the 12 year old boys I mistake for lesbians (and vice versa).

Yeah, the fun would be only mine, or not if the lesbian decided to beat me for what I did, and you mistake little boys for lesbians and lesbians for little boys? How does that even work? And why kanojo gets mad because of that? xD

Newp

What's going on here guys?

Not sure...

Newp and elthundercat
Hi there, nice to see both of you back~~

last edited at May 4, 2016 7:58PM

dofudofu

I felt the same way :P

Great, no one knows what to think!

Time to put yourself out there! You said you're short right lol. Maybe you can pass as lesbian :P Depends on your facial hair and voice probably ...

No, there's no way I can pass as a lesbian, and even if I could, we both know it's not a good idea and wouldn't have a happy end either. xD

The stereotype and jokes are definitely prevalent in the U.S. (How many blondes does it take to screw in a lightbulb? 100, 1 to hold the bulb and 99 to rotate the house. How do you make a blonde laugh on Saturday? Tell her a joke on Tuesday. What do you call a blonde with her hair in pigtails? A blowjob with handlebars... the list goes on). Even so, I think most people would also acknowledge that it's a nonsense generalization.

I think nowadays most people know it's nonsense, but the stereotype and jokes won't die I guess. :x

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins

I think CCL was just trying to point out that the word 'creepy' is decidedly a negative one. "Causing an unpleasant feeling of fear or unease". Hardly something you can be positive about, or consider a compliment, even a weird one.

Not necessarily negative at all, a lot of people feel exactly that against certain people or things that they like, goth is a good example because a lot of people mean exactly what you said when they call them creepy, another good example is spiders or snakes for example, a lot of people have them as pet exactly because they are considered creepy, just because some people whine over what they find creepy, that doesn't mean creepy is a bad thing.

And I agree with dofudofu, any of you want to be part of the discussion you're more than welcome, but better to drop this subject as people obviously have different opinions that won't get us anywhere.

oliver
I believe she said to stop this subject, not that you couldn't be part of the thread...

last edited at May 4, 2016 7:37PM

dofudofu

Lol...

I honestly don't know what to think of this xD

Yeah it's nice during the cold months and then you get to summer and your girlfriend who radiates heat like an oven still wants to spoon. Air conditioning is one of the wonders of the world.

Haha, fortunately I have air conditioning always on, so that wouldn't be a problem, now if I just got a girlfriend... (T^T)

Su

I don't know how far spread that stereotype is, but in Germany, blonde people, especially blonde women, are somehow associated with being stupid and really only being good at sex. -.- That's why I've gotten rid of my blonde and have stuck with black ever since highschool. XD

Haha, I guess only in the USA? But even so the stereotype of blonde being stupid is everywhere, but why black hair? Ever tried some other color? Like Blue or pink? xD, right now with Chloe from Life is Strange in mind since her natural hair is blonde if I remember correctly.

Dude, Lin knows how I look. XD Chances are she isn't gonna say anything. At most, she's probably gonna nag about how I'm not smiling in that picture (what you see there is my natural expression. I hate having to force smiles for the camera. >.< I think my stage smiles look absolutely creepy, but Lin tends to think otherwise, so she teases me about it. Like... a lot XD)

I meant when she sees the thread and that we talked about you xD, I never smile, if I ever smiled then people would probably not get even close fom how much creepy I would look, worse if it was night...

Sometimes when she's in her study and doesn't come out for like 2 or 3 hours, I would go join her and I would sit next to her on the small couch she has in there and just ask her to tell me what she's thinking about. And suddenly, when you listen to her, it feels like she has an entire universe of thoughts and questions in her head, thinking about the philosophical nature of stuff that I wouldn't even consider significant in any way whatsoever. So I just sit there while she keeps going on and on and all I can really think is "Fuck...you're smart yo" cause I just can't keep up with her. XD Seriously. Sometimes her brainpower makes me feel almost ashamed of my slightly above average high school diploma. ^^;;

Haha, there's nothing to be ashamed of just because you're not as smart, the problem is not when the partner is smarter, but when they have normal intelligence and you're dumber, now that can be a problem xD, but I can imagine how it must be hard to keep up with her xp

XD I'll keep that in mind. But I'll pass for now. ^^

Sure, it's okay o7

Alright then. Bed time for me. yawns See ya'll later!

Good night o/

ChocolateCakeLover

Countless of people who like creepy disagree with you, also, you chose this time to finally say something ? Why not stay and be part of our little group? Or don't have anything else to say? xD

Countless people who vote Hillary and Trump are wrong as well.

And countless people who are goth, or like to dress all in black have tattoo, and countless other types of people who have different preferences that are not seeing as "normal", but people call them creepy, freak or strange just because of who they are even though they never did anything wrong, there's nothing wrong with being creepy, it's normal people who can't accept what is not like them that is wrong xp

Also, people who vote on Hillary and Trump are not all creeps at all, a lot of them, most of them, look and act perfectly normal.

Not to mention that what is creepy is relative too.

last edited at May 4, 2016 5:53PM

ChocolateCakeLover posted:

dofudofu

All I meant is that you seem pretty harmless lol

Oh, can't argue with that, anyone can beat me, even children, I'm creepy and harmless but in a good way xD

There is no good way to be creepy.

Countless of people who like creepy disagree with you, also, you chose this time to finally say something ? Why not stay and be part of our little group? Or don't have anything else to say? xD

dofudofu

All I meant is that you seem pretty harmless lol

Oh, can't argue with that, anyone can beat me, even children, I'm creepy and harmless but in a good way xD

dofudofu and Su

Go play video games :P That's what single life is all about lol. Playing video games without someone interrupting or whining.

#PureFuckingWisdom v.v

I might go, but it's too fun here right now, and well, single life is only as good until those lonely cold nights without anyone to hug you come... (T^T)

Su

Oi oi, don't drag me into this yo. o.o

Don't worry, she has nothing. xD

last edited at May 4, 2016 5:31PM

Su

Thanks ^^ Blonde (I'm actually naturally blonde. You can see that in the pic if you look closely XD) with blue eyes is actually a pretty common combination in Germany ^^ Personally, I would've preferred to have been born with naturally dark hair and dark eyes, but I've been told I have pretty eyes a lot, so I learned to like them eventually. XD

Don't say that, people love blondes xD

She's been there since Monday and is coming back on Friday. She also logged on those past 2 days to chat a little, but I guess today she didn't get the chance or time or wasn't in the mood. XD Lin sometimes has days where she spends literal hours in silence on her own, thinking about a ton of things. She prefers not to be disturbed by anything then. ^^

I see, wonder what she'll say when she finally sees it xD, also, several hours in silence on her own I understand, but doing that for think about things? I would use that time to go play something instead, yeah I'm not the thinking type. xp

Well, we settled that the burden of the proposal is on me, and I will definitely wait until after the transplantation and until my body has fully accepted the new heart. I want to be certain that I'll be able to deal with the headache called "wedding preparations." And I also need to have a few talks with my father beforehand. I don't want this to seem like something I did just to scorn him or rub it in his face. So...maybe by the end of this year or the beginning of next year, we'll finally be official. XD

I see, still have to wait some time for it, when you do please tell us xD, as for your father, I saw what you posted about him talking with your mother after you screamed to him, hope now he finally stop thinking those stupid things, now I can't help but wonder if you both will be as brides or if you're going to use a suit, yeah I think too much about real life yuri, hope it's not too much creepy. xp

If you don't feel comfortable showing yourself to the public, you don't have to show me either. ^^ I mean, no offense, but I'm not going to create some private account somewhere so I can have a look at you because of your rule. Do whatever you feel comfy with. If you don't really wanna show yourself, then I don't wanna see either. :)

Well, Dynasty irc don't need any kind of account, I assume you never used it? And I don't mind showing it if you want to see since I saw yours, reason I don't post in public is not just because of the rule, but because well, it's a public place, I did say I'm shy and self-conscious too xD, either way I can give you link at irc any time just in case you change your mind. xp

mvl89

Darn Thia sama u beat me to conquer 300.
Regarding proof i don't need any, i have Su as my witness. She was there. Case is now totally closed.

Obviously, I was waiting for the right moment to get both posts xD

And girl, stop it, all Su can testity about is that you posted first, not that you saw it first, you can't win this, give up. xD

dofudofu

I knew what you meant lol

I know you know what I meant, was just something more to say to get last post xD

Quite

Is that good or bad? xD

Well it isn't good, but considering your personality, I suppose it isn't that bad either haha.

Well, creepy is not bad, countless of people enjoy creepy or unusual things, it's normal people who whine too much about it xD, and what you mean considering my personality? No, really, I'm curious about what you mean. xD

Also, lest post of page 299.

Hello 300!

Hello indeed, now I wonder if I should continue here or go continue Demon's Souls.

last edited at May 4, 2016 5:13PM

300 pages yay

Just in case anyone is wondering, yeah I kept a close eye to have the last of 299 and first of 300, doesn't count as cheating xD

last edited at May 4, 2016 5:08PM

dofudofu
I meant everything we can see in that picture xD

Quite

Is that good or bad? xD

Also, last post of page 299.

last edited at May 4, 2016 5:08PM

dofudofu
She's the one who started by claming she saw it first! Also, that's what happens when people have too much free time xD

And indeed nice eyebrow, technically nice everything xD Still sounding creepy I guess? xp

mvl89
Except for the fact that again, you don't have proof of who saw it first, you can argue that you posted first, but there's no argument or anything that prooves that you saw it first, I might not proove that I saw it first, but neither you can, so yes, case closed, and neither can win. xD

Su
I see, been how many days she's there? When she's coming back? Cause she's missing all the fun of this talk xD, as for the wife part, any idea when it'll happen? No idea of when the time will come since it won't be any time soon?

And just you know, if you wanted I could show you how I look, but would have to be in some private way or place, even Dynasty irc could work xD, I have a rule, I show mine if they show me theirs, few people saw me without me seeing them, because of that rule that I don't post in public places xD

mvl89
Good question, only 4 posts left.

Su
It's okay, don't need to hurry your reply, I know very well how you feel xp, as for creeping you out, all I can say is that my job here is done. xD

Su
Something that I forgot to ask before, but where's Lin? I thought she would have said something by now since we're talking about her pretty girlfriend, or is it wife already? Don't remember if anything about that was said.

Blue-gray, actually, with the blue usually being the dominant color. XD The gray just comes out a bit more in that pic cause of the brightening effect. ^^

Yeah I thought it was more blue than gray, but the light made it hard to decide which one was, funny how in the end it was both. xD

Also, did you notice I made a pretty big post replying you? Asking just in case you didn't see it. xp

mvl89
Your post actually don't proove anything, all it prooves is that you was the first to talk about it, not see it, and no I didn't left to wander somewhere, I was busy writing my bit post. xD

Also, 11 posts left!

last edited at May 4, 2016 4:49PM