A more charitable interpretation is that Chinatsu was indeed a genuinely talented, important asset to the company, and when she resigned suddenly the leadership investigated. And when they discovered that it was caused by a baseless rumor from jealous colleagues, they were "encouraged" to follow her out the door. But because this is Japanese office culture, nobody just flat out said "stop spreading stupid rumors you ding-dongs."

Yeah they said she was still in contact with the boss while she was away. She must have spilled the beans and reported him. Everyone in the office seemed to know it was him afterwards.

Interesting. Not a story of a bad senpai but instead an alternate ending for Hiroko and Ayaka's potential romance; and it also serves as the reason for the intensity of Hiroko's denial. She's not just worried for the normal reasons that a marginalized person might be but also because she's literally experienced where this could wind up! And her story and demeanor parallels Ayaka's so much. Must be a lot of trauma. A sad story, especially for the senpai who lost or at least had her career altered over nothing.

Like her senpai, Hiroko is self-sacrificing for Ayaka's sake; but also like her senpai, Hiroko is substituting one kind of harm to Ayaka for another. Career and public harm, for personal romantic harm. Ayaka will have a lot to overcome, in order to show Hiroko that this time can be different and that there can be hope even in hostile environments. A lot can change in 10 years even when a lot can remain annoyingly the same.

last edited at Jun 19, 2023 2:16PM

Yvonne thinking "now I'll get her back for teasing me all this time" like girl this is the reason she's so ridiculously head over heels for you.

Failing upwards.

Yeah if Uncle moves, Mitsuki moves with him (unless I'm wrong, and he's not her guardian?). So, Kanna isn't wrong, even if she's having a whole lot of fun teasing. Can't see them separating though and I don't think Uncle would forcefully move Mitsuki.

last edited at Jun 18, 2023 9:07AM

Please do not be a third wheel. Please do not be a third wheel. Please do not be a third wheel.

Lol Same. Getting Sayaka vibes from her. They all seem fun though.

Mmmm, yeah, when you put it that way, that does make sense. When I first read this chapter, Ayaka's continued listlessness during the date scenes kinda escaped my notice, (since I thought it was like, Risa's imaginings during her confessing, not actual events across a minor timeskip until a page or two later) so the aggressive face felt kinda more relevant to Risa's own fed-up vibes these past few chapters than in response to that. But going back and looking again, it does come across a bit better now....[Cutting off the rest for space]

Oh detailed response. Cool. Harumin all the way! That's all I'll say.

Lol. But yeah, if you haven't already, check Ayaka's eyes in those scenes (also check that Risa was the only one ever blushing--bless her). The awkwardness is a bit of comedy. Ayaka is completely shell shocked that they're even doing this. She must have been so confused. When a good friend confesses, it can be so weird if you're not attracted. It can feel like "hey, they're a great person, shouldn't I try it out? Should I? Why don't I like them? Why does this feel weird?" But the reality is it doesn't work that way. We can't turn a switch, we don't have as much control as we think we do over our feelings. Maybe in time they could, but Risa was already so upfront the entire manga and still not even a thought from Ayaka, so it's right for her.

It's tough to move on but the upside is Risa tried it. She can have closure. She has no regrets. That's the other purpose here, I think. She's not the silent unrequited love trope, she stood up and made it happen (just like Ayaka has been doing). Now she knows it doesn't work and can move on head held high. She's not Sayaka. I agree about your Liz/Liberty comments but that's another divergence.

last edited at Jun 18, 2023 6:52AM

Oh man, I'd love to talk with you about your Harumin takes but don't want to get off topic more!

If Risa had given her time and space before suggesting a relationship, maybe it could have worked out better, but this outcome just makes sense to me given her characterization thus far.

Yeah, I can imagine her mental state though. She lost Ayaka's affection to Hiroko, now they're "broken up" and here's Risa's chance. But what if she waits too long and Ayaka falls for someone else? Back to unrequited love again? She must have been under a lot of romantic stress. Then, they're finally dating and Risa must have noticed Ayaka's relative apathy and lack of closeness. That's just difficult stuff and she couldn't have been in the best state when she went for the aggressive kiss. I don't blame her either. I don't blame any of the 3 really.

Also you're thoughts about the 3 women and how we all view them are interesting, as well. Hiroko's issues feel the most real (to me, and maybe you as well?). Maybe that's part of why you might find it easier to relate to her problems? There's more that could be said about your ideas. Appreciated.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 10:54PM

Sorry to everyone else for the rant, I'm gonna drop this now, because it's mostly off topic at this point, but nah, man, people have a responsibility to try and make their language clear, but the reader ALSO has a responsibility to try and take what they said in context in good faith, to seek understanding, not pelt them with nitpicks. Language isn't a competitive sport, you don't get points for dishonestly picking apart somebody's phrasing.

Nice rant. Fully agree. Felt you'd wish to know.

Agreed. I didn't have it in me. I write enough here, as it is.

I am really digging the "lesbian bar patrons as Greek chorus" thing they got going on, and also enjoying them deconstructing Hiroko.

Haha never thought of it that way but yeah. Like from Hercules.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 6:58PM

Damn everyone who left an Ayaka x Risa comment must be reeling right now lol

This was definitely done in a "let's do it to say we did it" type way rather than giving it much effort. I've been cheering for Risa but pushing Ayaka to date her was a weird move (even if she said she wouldn't play nice, doesn't mean she has to go 0 to 100).

I talked about it in an earlier comment about Risa but she seemed a bit desperate. She knew how Ayaka felt and this uneasiness seemed to be building up behind the scenes throughout the last few chapters. She was growing really envious and starting to escalate, finally culminating in her outburst with Hiroko. So I agree it was aggressive but I didn't see it as sudden (with earlier comments as evidence of that); rather it felt to me like she was at her last straw, knew Ayaka's feelings, and wanted to snatch a chance with her. It's sad that it doesn't work out for her though.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 6:11PM

I see, so, Hiroko was once in Ayaka's shoes. But what I don't get is that, she knows she isn'r as cruel as the Senpai she once pursued. So, why is she so afraid of reciprocating Ayaka's feelings?

Do we know that the Senpai was cruel? She might have suffered from what Hiroko is afraid of. She was apologizing here for getting Hiroko involved in something.

An apologizing Senpai, eh?

I actually never got around to those specials and the novels! I really should though. How were they? And hopefully this senpai isn't as much of a creep. The framing seemed sympathetic though.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 5:30PM

I see, so, Hiroko was once in Ayaka's shoes. But what I don't get is that, she knows she isn'r as cruel as the Senpai she once pursued. So, why is she so afraid of reciprocating Ayaka's feelings?

Do we know that the Senpai was cruel? She might have suffered from what Hiroko is afraid of. She was apologizing here for getting Hiroko involved in something.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 4:57PM

Was this plotline axed? I get a feeling like somebody told Sal Jiang to rush through this arc and move to the next posthaste - to try and salvage the story.

Didn't work very well then lmao. One more vol and it's over.

Sal's stories are always about this length. They do shorter series. So nothing out of the ordinary. You can follow their twitter, etc. They're still discussing this series, since it just ended recently. This story was well received in Japan from what I could tell (and Sal's popular anyway), so I see no indication that anything happened.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 5:01PM

People, I understand some things might need to more clear for those of us who are more literal but there is no need for this to escalate so much...

Very true but that ship seems to have sailed, unfortunately. Just gotta trudge through it, and I'm not replying to those anymore. Lol After the family comment with little response, I got it.

.I hope she can find someone who is a good match for her

That large woman at the bar nearly strangled her last time. She'd be popular there.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 2:32PM

I think it's pretty realistic given the circumstances. There's over the top scenarios and gags on one hand and on the other hand realistic issues that gay women face in their day to day lives.

Agreed, about your love triangle comment. And yeah, agreed again, here. All her hangups were laid out clear, there's not much else to do to make them clearer. It's complicated dealing with whatever her past is, being gay in a corporate environment within a socially conservative country, being 13 years older, and also being her boss.

I especially love the line asking Hiroko something like "what has been making you lie to yourself." This line further solidifies the idea that she's not been fully dense but instead in denial (a big difference). She's been running from the truth she almost realized in that earlier chapter when she got sick in her stomach (which was a hint). Guess we'll find out an extra reason why, now.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 2:00PM

Yeah, Ayaka wasn't into it but Risa knew she was in a precarious position after Ayaka told her that she wasn't interested back in an earlier chapter. She pushed for this situation as a last chance attempt and that's fair! But Ayaka just isn't romantically attracted to her even with Hiroko temporarily out of the mix (but not really). Seemed like Ayaka was "out of it" on all their dates. I really see them as sisterly and I think she does too, as she couldn't wrap her mind around looking at Risa in a romantic way at all.

Hopefully they can talk through this moment but that'll take Risa's being OK with remaining a best friend. It's not like Ayaka pushed for this, she seemed to accommodate the request to be nice. I'd hate for Risa to blame Ayaka for not have feelings when Ayaka already told her this a long time ago. Risa makes Ayaka happy but as a friend and that should eventually be OK too. Risa, go to that bar! Lots of great people there.

Now Hiroko is getting into her background! Great. Should be interesting to see what incidents might have raised her concern levels and how Ayaka the pitbull can maybe represent a different path. "Senpai" seems to have some parallels to her current situation.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 12:34PM

Basically I asked because I think Ayaka×Risa is a detriment to the overall story so I wonder how people think it could work or still be fulfilling in some way, other than "Hiroko sucks, Risa is best girl" so therefore she should get the girl.
Call me By Your Name arguably has some problematic aspects but I loved it all the same. I don't think it endorses whatever is happening. It's just a story about a young man falling in love with someone older that is arguably not the best for him. I like it because I've liked older people and at the end of the day you grow up and realize that sometimes the age gap is not the best thing in the world.

Yeah I know your stance I was just interested in your thoughts. And I haven't seen Call Me yet but maybe I should based on your description. I generally agree with your "Hiroko sucks, so Risa" idea. A lot of the times it feels like we're endorsing who we would personally like or date, rather than who the characters have expressed interest or compatibility with. But that's another discussion and people seem extra testy about Risa as it is lol. Thanks for the response.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 8:57AM

Write clearly. Reread before posting. Mind ambiguity. Remember implied is not the same as stated and context is not the same as text. Don't expect other people to intuit your meanings. Say exactly what you want to say, in no uncertain terms; no more, no less. And if you fail, accept your responsibility; don't throw the blame onto others.

You read my multiple comments and what I was responding to and thought I meant Ayaka didn't like Risa as a friend? There's the responsibility of the writer but also responsibilities of the reader as well. But that's the last I'll say on that. It's become a bit dramatic.

But what are your ideas of how Ayaka could end up with Risa?

I like your ideas actually, if it were to happen. I'm not sure if you're going to get concrete responses to your question though, honestly. The issue is that the manga has 24 chapters and with it's normal pacing, there's not enough time to have two relationships created and one ended within 10 or so chapters. So for those reasons alone I don't see it. But I appreciate the basics of the idea.

Personally, even if the series were longer, I wouldn't see a potential RisaxAyaka for all the in-text reasons I've stayed in my past comments but yeah. I mean even now her being pushed to Risa is because everyone is telling her she should give up. Risa is saying it, Hiroko seems to be pushing her to Risa. This is again a situation where Ayaka's agency is being ignored. She's being tested and at a crossroads. She's said she doesn't want Risa and only wants Hiroko but everyone in the manga (and I guess outside it) is telling her what's best for her.

It's being set up again for Ayaka to scream the title from the hilltops (exclamation point and all) in a defiant, self assertive way. It's character progress or development through an obstinate continuation of the character's journey. Obstacles are telling her what to do and (I think) she will say "No! I know what I want! And I'll get it! Watch me!" The joke is that Hiroko is the mountain she's heroically (sometimes comically) scaling. She's always been tough and determined right? That's part of what makes her endearing.

Anyway, how was "Call me By Your Name" BTW?

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 6:13AM

Hiroko is obviously attracted to Ayaka and she feels jealous when the male manager pets her, idk why people are saying she's not. I think ppl are making her into this cruel, uncaring character because she's clueless and a womanizer (though she's obviously not seducing Ayaka.) When... in fact she's being responsible and caring by considering that there's a power dynamic at play (she's Ayaka's boss), that you don't sh!t where you eat, and that for various reasons she cannot give her what she needs right now. I'm so looking forward to her figuring out how to reconcile her lesbianism w her professional life and how to keep lasting relationships <3 and most of all, I'm looking forward to her getting together with Ayaka!

Yeah, it'll be interesting once they get to whatever her corporate history was like. She's got valid reasons to avoid work relationships (and to try and push Ayaka to Risa) but we know she likes Ayaka and that Ayaka is a pitbull: so the second that workplace cautious streak cracks, Ayaka will likely be there ready to pounce.

last edited at Jun 16, 2023 7:41PM

Love the art and especially the scene transitions in this series.

last edited at Jun 16, 2023 6:30PM

Next time, put it into writing...

You cut off my full comment which said "Ayaka already said she doesn't like Risa to her face, after Risa confessed." "After she confessed" is key. What's also key is the entire rest of my comment which discussed romantic interests and discussed Risa's being a great friend such as this: "Ayaka is within her right, not to view her romantically, she's said as much and that's the end of that." I can't really help you beyond that. I mean they are obviously friends, I didn't think that was debatable. I can understand if you like Risa but this is a bit out of hand. Especially comments like this:

Rereading what you've written before hitting send is usually a good idea.

Or

You only like the people you want to fuck rn?
I'll take in that case that you don't like your father, you don't like your mother, you don't like your brothers and you don't like your sisters. Well, either that or your family life is Taiyaki-level of interesting.

So we have one commenter bringing in my family relations and we have you doing this? Let's be respectful.

As for Risa and Ayaka: if you want to believe they have a potential future we'll have to agree to disagree. I've already made my points, I think. So, we'll see.

last edited at Jun 16, 2023 3:58PM

I'll take that bet, since Ayaka already said she doesn't like Risa to her face, after Risa confessed.

....... "Doesn't like?"
You only like the people you want to fuck rn?
I'll take in that case that you don't like your father, you don't like your mother, you don't like your brothers and you don't like your sisters.

Well, either that or your family life is Taiyaki-level of interesting.

Obviously, I mean romantically. We're talking about dating and confessions. I don't understand what you mean? Are you being purposefully uncharitable or what? I'm not sure what my family life has to do with it.

last edited at Jun 16, 2023 11:52AM

Lol. What?
I mean, we can see Hiroko's thoughts, but Ayaka and everyone else in the story cannot.
From the perspective from everyone but us omniscient viewers, Hiroko has no interest in Ayaka, and that makes Ayaka and Risa exactly the same, not Risa worse.
Also, Ayaka didn't say "no, I'm not attracted to you", she just likes someone else. Weirdly enough, people can change...

I'm talking from the position of potential ends. Yes, Ayaka can not read Hiroko's thoughts but we can and we know that Hiroko does like Ayaka. Therefore, we know that Ayaka is in a potentially better position than Risa, whose love interest already denied her and moved on. And I already pre-addressed the idea of Ayaka's feelings changing when I mentioned "drastic changes," etc. I highly doubt that happens either way, because she's been with Risa for over a year and yet has shown no indication of ever considering her, even after Risa's confession and with all the troubles with Hiroko. Ayaka hasn't once even thought deeply about Risa in that way. It would take a sudden shift, for her to see Risa differently than she's always seen her and I see no indication that, that is coming or likely. She treats Risa more like a sister and any other further interactions they've had have been pushed by Risa, like how Ayaka pushes Hiroko.

But I really hope Ayaka stops pursuing Hiroko now cause otherwise she will look like an idiot.

I think it's a bit complicated for her. Because even here with this "rejection" Hiroko never said she doesn't like Ayaka. She only said she doesn't believe she could make her happy. Ayaka could view that as just another obstacle, to show that she's fine being secret at work or to show Hiroko that she doesn't have to worry as much.

last edited at Jun 16, 2023 10:25AM

Just to be clear, I wouldn't mind if Risa got Ayaka (and it was done well). It just won't happen.

Wanna bet?

I'll take that bet, since Ayaka already said she doesn't like Risa to her face, after Risa confessed. Have we forgotten what happened earlier in the manga?

Risa is doomed and knows it. That's why she's being so aggressive, she's basically Diana at this point. She's great and an amazing friend but she's not owed someone's love because of that. They are not "made for each other" because only the individual gets to decide that and Ayaka has been around her and has decided, no. This is a lesson for real life as well. Similarly, Hiroko is not bad just because she didn't give someone the love they wanted. Denying reciprocation is not wrong. No one is owed anything and love is not transactional. You don't put in your 9-to-5, expect love to come like a salary and get angry at the person when it doesn't. Ayaka is within her right, not to view her romantically, she's said as much and that's the end of that.

I feel for Risa however she's doing what Ayaka is doing but much worse. At least Hiroko likes Ayaka and is only avoiding her because of a desire to remain closeted at work. Ayaka has point blank said she's not really interested and has never shown a hint of going back on that, or even considering it further. Risa can find another great woman from the bar, honestly. They hounded her last time and are also lovely. Otherwise she's unfortunately setting herself up for failure, unless something drastic happens or she's just someone Ayaka settles for after giving up on Hiroko. I'd rather she avoid that.

last edited at Jun 16, 2023 6:24AM

I love this series.

Tbf, after seeing the whole scene with Hiroko at the meeting with the other managers, I can understand why she doesn’t want to be out about this. I mean despite her being the most valuable worker and core of her team, those old dudes were still trying to encourage her to quit, get married, and have kids bc she’s a woman, with like only one of them disagreeing. If they already subconsciously discriminate against her now, it’d probably get worst in the future if they knew she was a Lesbian, the work field is brutal and sometimes it things like that that could be the start for them to actively replace her.

Yeap. Good point. Would likely be a lot worse and she knows it. I'd actually forgotten about that chapter.

last edited at Jun 15, 2023 4:37PM