While I can not argue, that isn't a cute overload, I still am not a fan of the ambiguous "lets be friends" ending.

Are they really lovers, or just good friends wiho share extreme skinship? I'm so confused.

I love this.

I HATE last chapter confessions/get togethers. I wanna see how a relationship between the two would look like for AT LEAST 10 chapters (especially if it took over 50 chapters for them to get to this point). If an author can't deliver that, I find the manga not worth the read, so I'm hoping it won't be the case here!

Also I hope that the next chapter won't have me wait for 2 weeks... These waiting periods are harsh.

If you want a heads-up, there hasn't been much progress up to chapter 20.
There are series that gets one chapter update per year and you're complaining about a two weeks gap between releases? I edit more than one chapter when I have some free time but, surprisingly, I have stuff to do irl.

The japanese really seem like, they like to take their time with their stories.
What's with the black out bar, anyway?

The black out bar is basically a spoiler warning, you can hide spoilers behind it so you can discuss a story that hasn't updated yet without worrying about spoiling other people.

So how does the black bar work?

This chapter was fun, and cute. I just wish they start picking up the pace. 31 chapters, and we're still in the just good friends, with strange benefits, stage.

AAAAAHHHHHHH YEAH! BAM CHICHA WOW WOW!

last edited at Mar 27, 2018 4:08AM

I cringed a little when she starts hitting on her and both ahem go to bed. Look kiddo, you just met that woman like half a day ago, so even if you have a big fat crush on her that is some serious leap of faith. Also how a married woman can be so innocent is beyond me (maybe love does make people do stupid things).
Anyway aside from those, this manga is indeed well-executed. I love how she told her to wait until both of them becomes adults and I assume the last last panel shows that she already divorced and is trying to find a new place (though IDK why I remember her having kids and for a moment wonder what will happen to them, but I guess I was wrong). 2018 is gonna be the year of age gap (and probably incest) haha !!!!

I'm reminded of the joke, about lesbians bringing U hauls, to the second date, when I read stories like this.

well at least it's more realistic lol why can't we have more age gap manga these days? >_>

I to, would like to see more high school girls, with housewives, and school teachers. Actually, it sounds bad, when I put like that. Oh well. I stand by it.

It should have jumped ahead to their first real kiss!!! I mean 33 chapters, and no kiss, BOO!!!

I HATE last chapter confessions/get togethers. I wanna see how a relationship between the two would look like for AT LEAST 10 chapters (especially if it took over 50 chapters for them to get to this point). If an author can't deliver that, I find the manga not worth the read, so I'm hoping it won't be the case here!

Also I hope that the next chapter won't have me wait for 2 weeks... These waiting periods are harsh.

If you want a heads-up, there hasn't been much progress up to chapter 20.
There are series that gets one chapter update per year and you're complaining about a two weeks gap between releases? I edit more than one chapter when I have some free time but, surprisingly, I have stuff to do irl.

The japanese really seem like, they like to take their time with their stories.
What's with the black out bar, anyway?

last edited at Mar 26, 2018 1:59AM

Well that is the healthy start, to a long lasting relationship, if I ever seen one.

I guess, I have to concede that point. But, in my defence, I was thinking of the morals, of sex, and gender politics.

Right---we are talking past each other a bit, because I mainly care about how stories work, and generally let the the ethics (as far as reading goes) take care of themselves.

It's just that sometimes people use "what if the gender were reversed?" as a kind of critical trump card, and I'm saying, "Depending on the story, it's not always as simple as all that."

Your right. We were definitely trying to make two unrelated points..

last edited at Mar 25, 2018 7:39PM

I hate giving up mid manga, but this boring, and it's doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Komaki just doesn't seem to care either way. She's not portrayed as having, you know, feelings, toward anyone.

She's never really angry, happy, flustered or anything.

Agreed.

Woah, such discussion. Personally, Touma-kun seems like more of an “I love everyone” kind of girl, rather than some sort of “hump em and dump em” kind of person. I feel like poly relationships that stem from this are healthy, even if it doesn’t happen to intertwine well some people’s ideas of love, that doesn’t mean anyone’s ideas are wrong, the two girls just weren’t meant for eachother, and it’s beautiful they all ended up with up with someone to love despite that. I find this story to be one more of girls finding out who they are rather than a story of heartbreak.

I'm friends with a poly amorous couple, and there is a lot of up front discussion before you initiate someone into a poly relationship. You definitely don't have sex with someone, then tell them, you are one of many.

The ethics of society influence the stories and the stories influence the ethics of society. You can’t separate the two.

That last sentence is clearly not the case—audiences take a great deal of pleasure from lots of stories featuring behavior that would horrify them in real life. Including many stories on this site.

I still don't agree. Cheering an outcome, that should horrify us, is a social statement. It lets us explore aspects of our selves, that we couldn't explore, safely, any other way. It also opens the door to questions. like "Why should I be horrified?", and "Would society be better, if we accepted this outcome?".

Think of the 1950's A story where a girl gets the girl would be blaspheme. But a good story might get a open minded person to cheer the couple on. Then make them think it's time for a change.

I can't think of situation where switching the genders involved would change the equation, so much, that situation couldn't happen at all.

Maybe “impossible to imagine” was an overstatement. I mean that the given situation never would have arisen in a het-only, het-normative storyworld. Look at the “childhood friends” trope—given het-normativity, then the question at adolescence, “Are they dating/should we date?” is inevitable; in yuri it’s a different story. Asking “what if character A were a guy” means it’s a fundamentally different story from the start.

I guess, I have to concede that point. But, in my defence, I was thinking of the morals, of sex, and gender politics.

more sad about ending to The Heir of The Curse than anything else in this short. It's obviously the same characters

I always wanted a series based on Yui and Ichika's daughter.

The Heir of The Curse refference was good but the rest was meh. At least author tried to make something different. And did they only observe gay couples?

The satellites did seem fixated on the yuri couples.

I have to admit that I just don’t know how useful the hypothetical “if this was het/if the character were a guy” is in analyzing the yuri genre. My sense is that sometimes it is and sometimes it isn’t, and maybe it’s more often applicable when discussing the ethics of behavior in general rather than when doing literary analysis of a specific story. But to what extent it is or may be relevant I can’t quite sort out in my head.

The ethics of society influence, the stories, and stories, influence the ethics of society. You can't separate the two.

I certainly don’t think there’s a general rule that “it’s girls, so no problem.” But I also know that a lot of times the answer to the question, “But what if it were a guy doing X?” is that in that case the whole situation would be so utterly transformed that it’s impossible to imagine X happening in the first place.

I can't think of situation where switching the genders involved would change the equation, so much, that situation couldn't happen at all.

last edited at Mar 25, 2018 5:05PM

johnb posted:

but she is able to do that because she makes them feel special.

And that is exactly the issue. They feel special, but to Touma, she is just treating them as everyone else, so their definition of "special" and what it means, are vastly different.

Yeah okay. I think we agree that Touma is preying on the girls insecurities. My original point was, that the statement "If everybody is special, then no one is" is wrong. Hahaha Looking back at my post, I think I lost sight of that, a little bit.

last edited at Mar 25, 2018 4:46PM

johnb posted:

True, the human brain is better at parallel processing, but I don't think it could handle the trillions of bits of data flooding in every second. Processing huge amounts of data fast, is why we invented the computer, in the first place.

Why are you operating under the assumption that the human brains involved make up the entirety of the computer? Having the ability to turn a disembodied human brain into a computer in the first place, we could certainly supplement that brain with additional processors and such in order to take advantage of the best traits of both.

Nah. An A.I. would be a better choice for the job. The moral, and ethical questions raised, by hacking human beings up, and chucking their body parts into space, aside. Human brains are weak, and squishy. They would need special biological live support. The nutrients would need periodic replenishing. The more I think about it, the more absurd the idea seems.

johnb posted:

Everybody has a part, of who they are, that is different than the usual. That fits the textbook definition of "special ", and
I think that's exactly what those girls want.

They want to be special to Touma, but since everyone is special to Touma, nobody is so there never will be a single girl that is anything more to her than other girls, meaning to Touma none of those girls are actually special, because they are just being their unique selves.

Agreed. The girls all want to be Touma's number one. And Touma uses that to get what she wants, but she is able to do that because she makes them feel special.

johnb posted:

that double standard bothers me.

I think most people here have double standards like that. If it is yuri, it is k or at least it always make it better compare to other options. I know I do and I'm not bothered by it at all since I consider girls superior anyway.

Sex is sex, no matter what genders are involved. A lesbian, who has cheap meaning sex with countless women, isn't pure and innocent, just because she has never been with a man. Conversely, a girl who has had loving sex with her boyfriend, hasn't soiled herself, or thrown her innocence away. I know that, but I want to feel it too.

I also disagree with the quote "If everyone is special, then no one is special" Everybody is special in their own way You just have to find it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's kind of awesome that Touma can see, the beauty, in all girls.

So funny I just remembered about this yesterday. The issue is it invalids the meaning of word "special". If everyone is "special" or "one of a kind" or whatever, then that word really loses its meaning. Obviously everyone is different, but when people say special, they have a very specific meaning in mind, so saying to you everyone is special is pretty much like saying everyone is equal and that is not what those girls want.

Everybody has a part, of who they are, that is different than the usual. That fits the textbook definition of "special ", and
I think that's exactly what those girls want.

last edited at Mar 25, 2018 3:47PM

All I want is for Touma-kun to end up falling in love for real with the most plain looking and apathetic girl in school

From what I understand about Touma-kun's character, she would be fine with that. After all her point is, all girls are cute in there own way. It's actually a positive message. Kind of sweet when you think about it.

Not really? I mean, to quote a great genius, "When everybody is special, no one will be..."

This comic is a perfect example of how treating everybody like they're a special precious flower just ends up hurting them, because you may say they're great, but then you turn around and treat them like everybody else, which ultimately means they mean nothing more to you than anybody else.

I also gotta take issue with all the people in this thread making excuses for Touma. It doesn't matter if she's being maliciously manipulative, or if she's just carelessly insensitive, the end result is the same. She's leaving a string of broken hearts in her wake exclusively because she doesn't spend any time thinking about how anyone else feels. She doesn't deserve your excuses, and I'd bet she knows exactly what she's doing. Yuki tries to get closer, and Touma just brushes her off with a smile. She comes and literally begs to have her feelings acknowledged, and Touma literally laughs it off with an insincere "sorry".

If this character was a guy, would any of you guys be this forgiving of that kind of callous behavior? Somehow I doubt it.

She's a player because she's playing with girl's hearts, and it's tearing up at least some of them. I mean there's Yuki, obviously, but also you can see the tension fall over the rest of them when Touma says Yuki is special, before she completely invalidates the compliment by spreading it to everybody.

This girl is the worst.

You're totally right. If Touma was a boy I would have hated his guts, and the fact is, that double standard bothers me.
But, I don't feel sorry for the girls, who fall in love with her. They knew what Touma was like going in. It's like teasing a growling dog, then getting mad, at the dog, when it bites.
I also disagree with the quote "If everyone is special, then no one is special" Everybody is special in their own way You just have to find it. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's kind of awesome that Touma can see, the beauty, in all girls.
I do agree, that Touma is broken. She obviously is having trouble forming normal bonds. Maybe that's one reason why she is so popular. Girls can't seem to resist a beautiful, broken boy(girl). They delude themselves, into thinking, their love can fix what's wrong. That's why the misunderstood bad boy is such a popular trope

last edited at Mar 25, 2018 5:24AM

I honestly can't tell if Hishikawa has a genuine shot with Komaki, or if this just a yuri gag manga, that is going nowhere.