I think FF is pretty good, it's realistic to keep going around in circles when your relationship with your friend suddenly becomes kind of romantic. I don't think it's bad writing. After all we aren't repeating the same patterns. First we were focusing on No-rae and now on Seol-a... basically it feels like a second arc or something because now the protagonist seems to be Seol-a and we are looking at the story through her.
Aaaand yeah um, that escalated quickly XD, neck nibbling already ahahahah

she did say that there's going to be a continuation

Also did anyone get the orange 'joke'?!?!?! I don't get it!!!

chiyoko sounds like choco(late) and a mikan is a mandarin orange.
hence the title.

ohhhhhhhh but I thought mandarins were not oranges...

last edited at Mar 13, 2016 6:48PM

Why does she have to be a high school girl? why not a college girl? -.- I feel underrepresented...
Also it's weird to cling to your best friend like that for years >.>

I know how you feel about the high school girl, i find it so hard these days to find a good yuri/ shoujo-ai manga involving adults. Wish she was also a college to a young adult myself. But being clingy to your Best friend for years is weird? Me and my bff has been inseparable for almost 20 years now. Even though she is engaged with a child and i'm starting out in my career field We do everything together. I dont think its weird for two people, mostly if they see eachothers as almost sisters, to be so close.

no no no, I mean cling to the romantic feelings for so long, not being close to the friend!! (like the person above said). But at the same time I was really surprised by how the friend agreed to do it with her so I'm like 'hm, maybe she was giving her mixed signals all this time' still though... >.> I mean Chiyoko is cool and all but it's kind of off putting that she'd be so... weak? I don't know how to describe it...
Also did anyone get the orange 'joke'?!?!?! I don't get it!!!

last edited at Mar 13, 2016 4:57PM

Why does she have to be a high school girl? why not a college girl? -.- I feel underrepresented...
Also it's weird to cling to your best friend like that for years >.>

How are they going to make Nami and Seju fall in love, Seju hates Nami with a passion.

It must be hard, and I don't think Team Gaji would put that much effort into making it happen.

Yeah, I don't think so either but if they started developing it now maybe something could happen. Besides it seems like Nami annoys pretty much everyone and she should have some sort of role in the story other than... just annoying people.
Btw, is there a thread for other comics on lezhin here? I can't find any...

last edited at Mar 12, 2016 5:10PM

are those two really the only printed comics? O_O wow...

Omg! I just noticed on Lezhin that What does the Fox Say? slogan is 'Love is Blind'... I wonder if this has anything to do with Sungji...

she's sooooo cooooool >///< ♥♥
even though I'm scared of surgeons... >.>

last edited at Mar 12, 2016 7:56AM

Gone Girl and Fight Club must have been a nightmare to sit through for you

what happens in those? o_o

The premise was 'one girl has a crush on another girl and tried to talk to her'. Not 'the love lives on the people of x high school/neighborhood'.

Well yes, that's the premise you want. Not sure it's certain that's the premise the author is working from.

Yes, my point is that the premise must be established in the beginning so that the audience knows what they're reading/watching. It's way too late to establish the premise right now. At first we always have exposition where we get to know the characters and their motivations and then we go into the narrative. You can't just go into the narrative and then decide to focus more on the other side characters without having given any hint in the first place whatsoever.

I didn't notice she folded her clothes... omg!!!! it's probably not a coincidence that panel was added!! omg awww, Sumin is really sweeeet >////////////<

I don't mind the side story of yaoi but at the moment the audience has no resolution of what happens after the rejection between the two main girls. The bus scene indicates that they silently agreed to ignore the confession that Sun Jing has said and are putting it aside and focusing on being friends. As there was humour in that scene but we don't really know for sure as it happened off screen maybe. This story frustrates me as the pacing is all over the place. They are building the side story up in the middle of the "conflict" between Qiu Tong and Sun Jing when they should have done that in the beginning of the story. Now we get 1 chapter main couple and then the next week the side couple get their time. But they made me invested in the main couple and then started drip feeding the main couples progress by using side couple as the buffer.

Basically, what I’m saying is that they get you addicted to drugs by giving you a large dose and cut back the dose. I’m having withdrawal symptoms as I want to know what happens but I can't because the side characters are getting in the way and I am not emotionally invested in them at all. If they started the side character progression at the beginning then I would care a lot more but because they didn't, I am more frustrated by it.

You are so right! I think there are waaay too many side stories also apparently now we have one about the little boy in the bus -.- It is NOT right to do this because in a story you need to establish the premise at first. The premise was 'one girl has a crush on another girl and tried to talk to her'. Not 'the love lives on the people of x high school/neighborhood'. The plot needs to be established from the beginning! If next chapters are side stories as well I'm going to be seriously mad... 'cause just when it cuts back to the bus scene and you think it's going to be about them they suddenly start talking about the boy -.- Also I'd seriously like to know whose story is this? 'Their Story'? -.- pretty ironic if it means Sun Jing's and Qi Tong's... -.-

last edited at Mar 11, 2016 1:23PM

So yeah here's my say...if this was a typical american love story.
-Childhood sweethearts Seju and Sumin 10 years plus relationship
-Seju Cheats...Sumin hurt bigtime (plus doing it right after her parents' death)
-Sumin wasted with all the bleak sex with anyones shes having...feels lost all reason to still believe in love.
-Seju regrets bigtime and doesn't know how to move on as well.
-Sungji ...newcomer, innocent and sincere with her love for Sumin.
-Sumin in awe with the pureness of Sungji's intentions...brings back the same feelings she got when she was still in love woth Seju.
-Sumin confused. Somehow got mixed up with Seju again...remembering their past and all. Plus sex of course.
-Sungji caught them. Got hurt big time.
-Sumin realizing she's lost without Sungji
...for the first time Sungji hates her...doesnt want to see her again.
-Sumin realizes that her love for Sungji is greater and fights to win her back...maybe well see the corny side of Sumin doing all the romantic stuff shes not used to...just to bring back Sungji.
-And well Seju will just have to accept that move on with and focus with her empire...and maybe end up with Nami...after all their bickering is quite cute and their scenes together are quite developing.

Thats it no organ transplant whatsoever!

haha it's possible but it's a bit predictable too and we're hoping that since this is a healing story that Sumin won't go as far as to cheat on Sungji but I think she is likely to get somehow mixed up with Seju, like Seju might kiss her or start talking to her about getting married and Sumin might get confused. And I do think Sungji might get really mad at that. It's a really easy way to make her more interesting after all and it makes a lot of sense for an 'innocent' girl like that to get quite bitter when she reaches her limit in how much she can tolerate. Also I think we are already seeing Sumin's slightly corny side and omg!!! >///< she's so tender and protectiveeeee >///<
And yes, I feel bad about Seju. I hope she doesn't get married to the guy but I don't think she will. It would just seem too 'easy'.

last edited at Mar 11, 2016 1:13PM

Yeah, I hope this doesn't end up like Winter Sonata >.> I really liked it at first, like a LOT and then... I was like -.-
I'm crazy about WDTFS because Sumin is totally my type so I'll be very disappointed if it ends up being mediocre...

last edited at Mar 11, 2016 7:55AM

Yeah, I must agree with you... Sungji hasn't done much yet other than being all 'happy-go-lucky' but I think that was good as a start. Definitely I won't be happy if the story ends and she hasn't changed, I will be very disappointed. At the same time I think Sungji is a bit mysterious so we don't get to see all of what she's thinking. Like when she rejected the fox toy. I think she might be thinking a lot more than we assume but since we are seeing things from Sumin's point of view we have to be kept in the dark for now. That's what I hope anyway because it will be very true that she is one dimensional if we don't see any development from now on... but the story seems to hint that we will, I HOPE!!

Yeah, I didn't mean she is immature but she definitely acts a bit younger than her age.
W-well, I don't know... I think we might see some of that later on... she might be a bit clingy and jealous (she seems like the type who would be) and an interesting way to go about it would be to have her let guys flirt with her in response to her jealousy or something. Not like actively flirty with them but yeah... I think it would be interesting because we keep seeing flashbacks of Sumin and Seju, comparing her with Sungji. Also because there was a flashback of Sungji's childhood and how she disliked everyone 'looking at her'. She could now turn things around and take advantage of that. I think the story could reach a point where Sungji might do something; without realizing it, that will trigger Sumin's insecurities about cheating and stuff. Yes, it's not a love triangle but things like miscommunication could cause a lot of drama and basically that's pretty much the only way to go about it right now, because there's still a lot of chapters to come.
But other than that I don't think she will have a prominent 'dark side' like the other characters. Maybe it's a bit of a cliche but it doesn't have to be boring as long as there are other things to her... It is definitely easier to make flawed characters interesting rather than good natured ones but that doesn't mean that a good natured character has to have some deep dark side to make her interesting. Just a tiny bit because she can't be a Mary Sue either, though I don't think she is. Also 'innocent' characters like that really give a positive feeling and hopeful message to the reader so I think they are important. Besides, Sumin is pretty much becoming good-natured right now.

last edited at Mar 10, 2016 6:26PM

It is not the fact that they are main characters, it's just the fact that it should be carefully done in order to keep the narrative consistent. It's not related to them being the main characters. It's just that it must be done in a way that doesn't mess up their roles in the story.
Hm, yes she is important I was just saying I think not as important. I thought the threesome ending was a joke... I can't even picture Sungji being even slightly attracted to Seju at any point and even if she did it seems like the sort of thing that would give Sumin nightmares -> and that scene makes me think it's a joke.
To be honest I think Sungji might act a bit younger than her age when it comes to love.

I thought that was the point the author was trying to make when in the early chapters she was giving the most level-headed relationship advice to her friend, even though she's inexperienced.

Also yes, I totally agree with this. I think Sungji might not be very intuitive when it comes to love things and is also quite sensitive but when given all the information she is able to make rational and intelligent choices. She is not as cunning most of the times but I think she could be if she tried and that she can also be very caring and sensitive about other's feelings.

a happy end can be in various ways, I never said Seju need to end with someone,

Yes, I know, I said that in response to someone saying that it really needed good writing for Seju to have a happy ending but I think it would be pretty simple, unless that happy ending entails getting together with someone.

To be honest I think Sungji might act a bit younger than her age when it comes to love.
I don't know if the other characters are more relatable to most people here. But I really relate a lot with Sungji and sympathize with her. Getting a crush so fast and not even knowing when I got it and having my eyes on a cool woman while a guy is trying to make a move on me and me trying to just be friends with him and unconsciously ending up doing dumb/exaggerated things because I'm not sure how to handle my feelings; like being super obvious about liking someone. But I'm younger than Sungji that's why I said I think she might not be acting that much her age... which might be a bit unrealistic; that she wouldn't have experienced a crush before. But I guess it is possible, especially since she wasn't thinking about romance. Also it's done for convenience purposes, since the story is about an employee in a company falling in love with her boss she can't be very young.

last edited at Mar 10, 2016 5:29PM

Also this is not Seju's story, even if the main characters get a happy ending she doesn't need one I think.

Since when Seju is not a main character and this is also not her story? And if she doesn't get a happy ending then this won't be a healing story.

Well she is one of the main characters but the most important ones are Sumin and Sungji right now. It's not really her story I think. She is just a character related to Sumin's past and she is probably going to play a role in her relationship with Sungji now but the story is not centered around her I mean. What does a happy ending exactly mean? Does she have to end up with someone for this to be a healing story? Doesn't it also constitute a healing story if she just decides to leave the past behind and get over Sumin and look forward to a new love?

Okay, yes Sungji can be a bit naive, but I can see perfectly how Sumin is in love with her -.-... She has no reason to return to Seju... Even if she has changed as a person and feels like she forgives Seju that doesn't mean that she will go back to her because she has Sungji now!! The fact that you mature and grow up and realize that maybe you made some mistakes (for example; not giving Seju a second chance) doesn't mean you are going to throw everything you have now out of the window and go back to the past. That would be immature in itself.
Also I pointed out this before but there is a problem with the narrative in getting Sumin and Seju together but I will explain it better. This story is a bit complex but the way I see it is as two parallel stories. In one Sumin is the narrator and in the other it's Seju. Seju's story is a subplot, in her story she is the protagonist/main/focal character and narrator.
Sumin's story is about her and Sungji and her flashbacks. In this case she is the focal character and the narrator but the protagonist is Sungji, she is the character we are compelled to sympathize with. We did get some details from Sungji's point of view (I remember her being really pretty specifically) but most of them we get through dialogue in contrast to Sumin.
For this reason if Sumin ends up with Seju, Sungji will have no relevance to the story anymore and that would be messing up the narrative. In order to make her relevant the story would have to focus on her feelings which would feel like a completely separate part from the actual story so it wouldn't work either.
However, I have thought a way in which Sumin could certainly end up with Seju, I remember a manga I read last summer; Hoshi wa Utau. So I think Sungji could still interact with Sumin even while she chooses to go back to Seju and even find the strength to support her in that decision. This way the narrative wouldn't be messed up. Or maybe she could rival Seju and in the very end Sumin will end it. I hope neither of those happen though -.-
But to be honest Seju is indeed relevant. If the story was just about Sumin and Sungji there would be no need for Seju to be there but I think there will be some misunderstandings and doubts in Sumin's heart >.>... and that Sungji will get hurt. Then, maybe Sumin will finally show her character development by giving it her all to clear the misunderstanding.
And I think Sungji is going to have more character development. I still remember how at first she seemed really weird but then we found out she was really sensitive and emotional. I still think she's 'hiding' more things. And now that Sumin is more sweet to her I think we will find out. Also she didn't confront Sumin about Seju but at the same time I would argue that Sumin's past doesn't matter and that she was not wrong in that. She actually did confront her in these past chapters, telling her that she was ready and asking if Sumin wanted her so I think she did have some development!
I don't understand why some people just deem her too immature and inexperienced and generally different from Sumin. Why does the girl who works so hard and genuinely loves someone has to be dumped for the ex that cheated on that someone? And it's not like we see Sumin and Seju have anything in common. I think Sumin was enjoying her time with Sungji but she had grown unused to certain things she liked in the past so she was a bit tense but in the end she managed to loosen up.
Also I wouldn't take Sumin not giving gifts to Seju so literally, it is very likely that we are just seeing the instances where Seju gave things to Sumin and not vice versa. Also that plush toy was the cutest gift ever -.-
Also this is not Seju's story, even if the main characters get a happy ending she doesn't need one I think. But I think it would be kind of cruel to just make her suffer. I think she needs an ending with a positive note and hope for the future. Also, I don't think Nami is just a random character and there's also this thing where you get irritate with someone you're secretly kind of attracted to... There is not enough space is the story to make them end up together but they don't have to. Maybe just show some connection between them.

last edited at Mar 10, 2016 1:46PM

Hm, I think for the proportions it's useful to learn how many heads equal a torso/arm/leg and so on so even if you are having trouble you can remember that and try to fix your mistakes. Also it is good to start with a base for the body, creating simple geometrical shapes and then adding the details on top so that you can easily fix any mistakes.
Also for the face I think it's good to use guidelines to make sure that you are putting things in the correct place. For example having the eyes in alignment. Many times even if they seem to be aligned they are not so it's useful to flip the image (using a mirror) because somehow your eyes become used to what you are seeing and you can't spot mistakes that easily. That being said when you seem to have fixed it while looking at the flipped image and then look at the original you see another mistake -.- but you have to do it a few times to make sure it's fixed.

last edited at Mar 9, 2016 9:25PM

I found this critic about VDM to be very relevant to this discussion

So I just binged through this series today. Had been avoiding it for a long time since I have no interest in the in-your-face fanservices, but to my pleasant surprise, VD actually has some substance in it.

There are real lesbians, not just straight-girls-making-out-for-plot-reason. Mirei's attraction for Mamori was handled so well. So much so that I couldn't remember the last time I've seen a canon yuri romance being developed with such grace. It didn't feel rushed, Mirei's sympathy for Mamori just gradually changed into adoration and then full on romantic in a natural way. This is IMO thanked to 1) the excellent pacing of the show and 2) the tasteful execution of jealousy + protectiveness moments.

The OP and ED music actually sound good. I didn't skip a single OP for all 12 episodes, something I hadn't done in years.

The final battle was awesome. The weapons and Mirei's Valkyrie form all have great designs.

Most the characters, including the villains, are likable. While they're not the most multidimensional characters out there, they do exhibit some degrees of well-roundedness instead of boring archetypes.

My only griefs with this show is 1) the fact it's a softcore porn (The oversized breasts make some of the girls look less pretty than they actually are. The bare tits/butts/crotches, tentacle scene, undignified crude poses, etc. make the show look cheap and hard to respect) and 2) some of the plot points are lazy asspull (pretending to be a guy because "it will guarantee you to be a leader among girls", really??? Going batshit insane because you're being used as a lab rat, sure, but why not getting angry when they first turned you into a living weapon as well?)

Tl;dr: expecting dumb porn, got a decent action show with real romance instead - as long as you can tune out the porn parts.

okay okay, I´m sold, I´ll watch it, let´s see if it´s really worth it :P

Yeah, I'm pretty interested in the artist behind Tropical Ririon though and I wonder why the author of Ocatve isn't making yuri anymore >.>
I'd buy some of their mangas but I'm kind of poor right now ;_;

last edited at Mar 9, 2016 4:21PM

yeah I miss the japanese manga I guess, I mean the webcomics are great too buuut...
I don't mind some moe like in New Game buuut... a lot of the times it gets kind of tiring... and I think I enjoyed it more before when I was around their age but now it's just like 14 year old girls being too cute. I don't really wanna see that >.> But maybe that's why I find New Game a bit more relatable, I guess when I'm 25 or sth I won't anymore.
Maybe it also has to do with the fact that I don't even like cute girls so if they're all cute I don't even care so much >.>

last edited at Mar 9, 2016 5:54AM

Ugh goddamnit it. What about my female gaze.

Exactly! I wanna see a cool boyish girl! (for example)
Also moe moe moe, I'm tired of all this moe lately! It just seems to be aimed at lonely middle aged men for the most part -.-

last edited at Mar 8, 2016 7:21PM