Feeling a little uneasy what did she find out at the end?

Seems like she might have seen some of Aria's history?

That girl knew how the night was ending before it even began. She set the mood and got it done. Appreciate the effort.

I really don't see how it matters in this case anyway. Very little about plot or character changes depending on whether she actually makes lip contact or leans in with incredibly obvious intent and comes within a millimeter. Either way, we suddenly go from:
Person A in love, had confession that was avoided, person B unknown but avoiding romance-related issues
to:
Mutual Feelings

How this can be considered nothing happening is beyond me.

Yes, I agree. The kiss not that important (unless you just want to see them kiss, just to see it). What's relevant is the intent to kiss. Really important volume, here. Now everything is setup for the next volume, as I assume this one is ending if not already ended. Learned a lot about these characters (some by omission) and perceptions of Kaede and Aoi were shifted back and forth because of these events (which says a lot for what the volume sought to do). I wonder how Kaede will respond. It really seems Nanami is at her wits end and learned to move on from her convo with Aoi. But if Kaede does have these feelings she's been hiding, she'll need to make a move before Nanami pulls an Aoi and fully moves on. Aoi is an alternative version of Nanami and Nanami learned a lot from Aoi's history but it seems Kaede might have also learned a lesson from seeing Aoi's conclusion--interesting use of Aoi there from the author and much of it was setup from Aoi's first arrival.

last edited at Feb 23, 2023 3:53PM

All's well in the end. To me this speaks for the idea that ultimately her "crush" on the guy was something superficial, as indeed this is supposed to be her assigned role. Maybe that is too meta, but it does feel like an obligation. Loving Hiyama, that is a feeling all of her own that she developed by constantly being given incentives for.

Yeah, long story short: once Hiyama came into the picture, Kimura's affections fixated on Hiyama (like the library scene) but she rationalized those affections in a myriad of other ways (adoration, "she's amazing," "I feel like this around her because I want to be like her," etc.).

I wouldn't be surprised if she felt these romantic like feelings for a while now but didn't have a solid understanding of her emotions because Hiyama is a girl. We even have the later scene where she continues to assume her jealousy is for the boy, only to actually react when forced to witness Hiyama's (potentially) being taken away by the guy friend.

She had an idealized view of relationships and who she "should" pine for, but it's all flipped. The girl she thought she liked because of "adoration" is actually love, and the guy she thought she "loved" was actually just a friendly kind of like (with some shyness).

last edited at Feb 22, 2023 11:14AM

That was a much more helpful discussion than expected.

Honestly, why do they keep falling for Kaede?? She's such a Mary Sue, goddammit.

Hahaha, no. She's way too much of a slob to qualify as anything even close to a Mary Sue.

Lol Yeah, if anything she's the Anti-Mary Sue. Actually even the concept of Mary Sue doesn't really fit this type of story. What would she be the Mary Sue of, manga, friendships?

last edited at Feb 21, 2023 8:46AM

Even in her dreams, Kimura gets off on Hiyama's aggression and it's lovely. She's got a kink.

last edited at Feb 21, 2023 7:36AM

That convo with Aoi makes it sound like Nanami will back off and give Kaede space instead of continuing to pursue her.

When I hear the name "Kafka" I think of the Arknights character.

I think of bugs.

Shiho surely can't be an insufferable asshole for the rest of her life.

Assumes the opposite of facts in evidence.

She's only been bad within the context of her issues with Shiho. Outside of those issues she's been fine. I think once this is resolved there's no reason to assume she won't be alright (although she's also just a more strong willed person in general but I wouldn't call that an asshole).

“I’m angry at you because you never knew the thing I never told you” is god-tier asshole.

This kind of attitude is normal though, especially for teens. I don't think it's good behavior but I wouldn't call it indicative of an asshole. It's easy to see from the outside but from the inside people get caught up like this all the time, even "non-assholes."

last edited at Feb 20, 2023 8:19AM

I switched from crush to oshi, because at this point of the relationship (Mitsuki's gender is known), "crush" was adding a romantic nuance which isn't there yet (at least in Aya's conscious mind).

Oshi is what Japanese people call a celebrity they have a preference for. In an idol group for example. Their "fave". Someone they idolize, but it doesn't have necessarily, or even that often, a romantic slant.

The thing is, Narita also called Mitsuki his "oshi" and Aya, in a previous chapter, gets in competition with him about who Mitsuki was the oshi of first. Then, I had to translate oshi in 3 different ways across that chapter and it's become untenable, because she might switch to a more romantic word later and their relationship is not textually romantic yet, as "crush" would imply.

I agree with this. I also think "idol," would be a fine replacement. We use the phrase "my idol" to mean similar things to Oshi. Switching between "idol" or (as you said) "stan" could work to convey the meaning between the different contexts. But yeah continuing to use "crush" right now might affect the (desired) revelation later in the manga. It seems that a lot of the point of the story right now is that Aya is mistaking her real crush for simple idol worship. It'll be important when she finally begins to call it a crush and not just a celebrity crush, so it's important to make the difference clear from now.

Aoi actually seems to have had a reason to fall in love with Kaede though. This whole saga makes me kind of disappointed at the lack of chemistry between our actual MC and Kaede.

Also, Kaede was so harsh. Ouch. May as well have slapped her in the face and said "how could you ever have said something like that seriously."

Yeah, I feel for Aoi. And Kaede did the same thing to Nanami. Wonder what Nanami will think now knowing it's happened before exactly as it happened to her, and with someone who was with Kaede just as long (if not longer), seemed closer to her and did the same things for Kaede that she's been doing. It's gotta be an important crossroads for her now--do you confront Kae again and make her at least be clear with her rejection (and stop with this pretending not to hear thing) or do you just move on?

I can also understand Kaede's reasoning. I'm assuming she's afraid a real rejection will end important relationships but she gave her assistant a better rejection than she's given both of these more important women in her life--which likely says something about Nanami and Aoi's importance to her but still.

All in all, this was great info for Nanami because it should hopefully clear up any confusion about whether Kaede actually heard her when she confessed. Nanami was in a bit of denial about that (while it seems Aoi understood what had happened more clearly).

"what play is that from anyway" has got to be the worst response to a confession imaginable lmao

Yeah it was so terrible and clearly a panicked response, I'm amazed she thought she played that one off.

last edited at Feb 19, 2023 7:58AM

How similar the two are...

And Kaede's basically the fork in the road.

The bar patron peanut gallery is already my favorite character.

Also, can we just mention the utter GALL of that guy to take a date into a bar where his girlfriend is a regular, after he was introduced to the staff at said bar. He might as well have jumped into a lion’s den.

Guy is A tier asshole.

last edited at Feb 17, 2023 7:05AM

I mean yeah, she's making herself pretty clear, I was only thinking about the parents - surely their daughter not finishing school makes them look even worse, I can't imagine that is seen as a positive to their standing in the community, no matter how homophobic it is.

Yeah, it's debatable but we don't know what kind of excuses they might give for her absence. There's a lot more wiggle room to assuage their position within the community when they have control of the narrative. They are so out in the country that their daughter didn't understand the basic culture of Tokyo, who is to say why their daughter had to suddenly leave? The problem with having their out-daughter there is they'd lack control of how their viewed.

last edited at Feb 16, 2023 11:09AM

I've read this for the first time, and out of all questionable things I'm somehow most bothered about the fact that.... she just seems to have completely quit school, and her parents and cousin are both fine with it? Like okay, she got suspended for a week or something, but we're clearly past that point, unless I guess this overlapped with vacation period or something... but it feels like this should be a bigger plot point than it actually is, since she surely needs to come back at some point, which will mean getting separated from sensei? :P

She's says she quitting school in the first chapter (the first convo she has with her aunt as she begs to stay with her). She couldn't have had much left considering her age now. I imagine her parents don't care about her since now she's away and can't harm their standing in the community.

last edited at Feb 16, 2023 8:15AM

You might have a different opinion but Kaede's (biased) flashback implied that Aoi did have romantic feelings (and likely Kae as well).

I feel like I agree with 95% of what you're generally saying, but I'm objecting specifically to the fact that this big secret could be an actual, mutually acknowledged romantic relationship between the two. One person having secret feelings for the other (or maybe even both!) doesn't make a relationship. I really feel like that would be inconsistent with Kaede's portrayal and what she was saying up to this point (it would be a huge omission when talking about living with Aoi, similarly with the relationship trauma stuff, and I feel like Kaede we know so far wouldn't misrepresent things to Nanami to this degree). I could believe Aoi secretly loving Kaede or whatever, but if the reveal is that they were actual couple then I will simply not buy it. The rest of your comment is spot on as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah definitely. When I say that Kae likely had feelings too , I mean in a similar way to how she likely has feelings for Nanami. In both cases she has feelings for someone but chooses not to say anything and right now I wouldn't classify Nanami and Kae as having a relationship. Still Kae seems to have some feelings for Nanami. She's just secretive and reluctant to pursue her feelings because of her past. So I didn't mean that Kae and Aoi had a full on romance but that they lived in a house, both liking one another and I imagine Aoi left once things got too awkward or she was tired of waiting for more.

The implication (that I think the manga has shown) is that both Kaede and Aoi are not being forthright. It's arguing that they did not actually act cordially except superficially. Kaede's memory of her past with Aoi suggests this (amongst other things). Then of course the fact that Aoi nearly avoided Nananmi's invitation to talk is another. Kaede and Aoi's emotional responses are not meant to be taken at face value, and Nanami realizes this.

I mean, sure, there must be something neither of them mentioned until now, that makes sense to me. I just don't think it's an actual romantic relationship that happened, that seems to me like it would just require too much bullshit to justify - Kaede doesn't want relationships because previous partners didn't support her manga stuff... except Aoi, she actually did, it's just different somehow, and she still has that fear of no partner willing to support her even if Aoi actually did so maybe it fell apart for a different reason... or maybe Aoi didn't support her at all and Kaede's story is just bullshit, or maybe the relationship trauma stuff is lying, or actually Aoi and Kaede pretended to be friendly during their reunion or something, and I feel like I'm having a stroke just typing all these possibilities out. I just don't see it, and if it turns out to be that kind of thing I think I wouldn't like that very much.

You might have a different opinion but Kaede's (biased) flashback implied that Aoi did have romantic feelings (and likely Kae as well). I don't see why that would require bullshit to justify. They lived together, and Kae's opinions about relationships are not necessarily consistent. It's possible her situation with Aoi made her more stubborn about her dislike for romantic relationships. It's also possible Kae's dislike for relationships is what made Aoi's relationship with her grow awkward and strained (something Nanami would love to know, considering she might be heading into the same situation). Nanami is almost parallel to Aoi when it comes to Kae (they were setup as parallels of each other from Aoi's first introduction) and she needs to know where she stands the same or where she stands differently. Aoi ended up one way, and how will Nanami end up? I think it's possible this is what the author is asking, and what Namami is worrying about. She just needs to know things.

last edited at Feb 15, 2023 11:09AM

I struggle to see what she could possibly gain from this. Heck, even if Kaedae and Aoi had been actual lovers, why would that matter know? Just seeking out misery, that is.

While that would be the most obvious explanation in a romance manga, I just don't see it making a lot of sense with what we were presented so far. Kaede and Aoi were seemingly on very good terms when they reunited (even if they haven't seen each other in a while), while Kaede also claiming that she doesn't want be involved in romance anymore because none of the previous partners accepted her manga dream in the long term - moreover, Aoi was shown as being nothing but supportive so far. So I'm also mildly confused about this supposed mystery we're building towards. If it turns out it's just a past romance and Kaede simply didn't mention it until now, then that will be quite disappointing in my opinion.

The implication (that I think the manga has shown) is that both Kaede and Aoi are not being forthright. It's arguing that they did not actually act cordially except superficially. Kaede's memory of her past with Aoi suggests this (amongst other things). Then of course the fact that Aoi nearly avoided Nananmi's invitation to talk is another. Kaede and Aoi's emotional responses are not meant to be taken at face value, and Nanami realizes this.

This is why she wants to understand their past, she wants to get a deeper understanding of Kaede by having a "true" understanding of what went on in her past important relationship. She senses that they are keeping secrets and probably worries about why that might be. I assume she's more worried that Kaede is scarred by something and how can she help without knowing what's real and what's a facade?

Even if it turns out to be a normal bad relationship ending, or missed love, that will still tell Nanami a lot about Kaede, when Kaede almost never says anything about her past. They've been together for a while and how much does Nanami actually know about Kae? It's natural for her to crave that knowledge from someone she loves. That's part of why it's meaningful, regardless of the outcome.

last edited at Feb 15, 2023 10:40AM

I mean, any specific age set for this is very much an arbitrary approximation of when a person would on average be considered to be able to decide such matters for themselves. In a perfect world one would decide this based on an individual's maturity, but obviously this is not really feasible in reality. But since we actually can see quite a bit into both of their minds here, surely there's no problem with this particular couple.

They're also 17 and 23. Not much difference. Even if you accept 18, are we really calling someone a pedophile because she's a couple months short of 18? These 2 could be at the same college in a bit. This is all approximations and obviously you don't want abuse but we've seen this story and their relationship, as you've said. It's fair to have a general caution about these things but it's very important that we "know" these people and we "know" their dynamic, thoughts and intentions (that is to say nothing unhealthy is happening here; she is not a person only interested in "younger" people--although again 17 and 23 is not something I'd personally worry about).

The earlier comment about the national age is misleading though as that is not the age nearly any prefecture uses. It's mostly 16 or 18 throughout Japan, through other laws. They don't view things much different than we do.

last edited at Feb 15, 2023 8:08AM

Since we are told this part from Kaede's perspective, who isn't the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to relationships, I am pretty sure we are missing a huge chunk of it. On the other hand, I am not sure why the author feels it so important to tell Aoi's story at this point? I was under the impression that her part is already over, but maybe I'm wrong.

EDIT: Also, 777th post in this thread, yay. :-)

It couldn't be over since we never learned anything about Aoi's history with Kae. Kae is pretending not to have heard Nanami's confession and has stated her negative feelings about romantic relationships. She seems to have had regrettable romantic experiences (some of which she's described), but we still have not learned about her most recent (and potentially most impactful) relationship with Aoi. So this always seemed like it needed to happen. Actually we've learned very little about Kae's background. She's been mostly tight-lipped. I imagine this will help Kae move forward and accept Nanami.

Now the tickets are wasted, WASTED

It was RHCP, there might be a next time...

Considering she didn’t show up until after the show would have ended, I’m assuming she went (because at that point you’re just wasting the tickets if you don’t go), and went to yell at Mitsuki afterwards.

Yeah we'll likely learn that her friend and her talked it out during the event. Then she came to yell at Mitsuki after.

It's funny to see the reactions to this story and to compare it to others in similar scenarios. Typically, when you have a character who's like "I can't choose" and the one going after her says "I don't mind if I date only you while you date multiple people", the reaction gears towards yay, harem.

But when the one going after actually doesn't want to be treated as one out of many, the reaction is the one she loves is a player, it's awful, she should go after someone better. The contrast between the two, and pushing "guilt" on the target of affection even though she is behaving in the same way in both examples, is strange. (I guess it helps that in the first scenario the protagonist is the target, in the second the protagonist is the one who fell in love).

Either way, I rather like this story. In addition to the bait-and-switch at the start, this is actually a pretty interesting take on two people with different views on love. They naturally wouldn't have a good chemistry, but are interested enough in each other to consider their options despite those being away from their comfort zone.

I wouldn’t really put kawase in the “I can’t choose” section nor would I really agree that they’ve shown different views on love. I don’t think we know enough from kawase’s side beyond the fact that she has a physical relationship with the other girl and that she thinks she’s undeserving of the protagonists love/affection

I agree completely. We don't know enough about Kawase. The way the scenes are framed and characters reactions should also be taken into account. Those harem manga frame interactions in a way that communicates to the audience that the love is mutual and healthy. This manga hasn't had that same framing for these scenes. It implies that there is something else at play. Especially considering that Kawase was fine with sleeping with them both in the classroom but in that same scene expressed doubt that she could ever be truly loved, it seems she views the physical relationships differently from romantic ones. Beyond that she hasn't said whether she believes in having multiple romantic partners at once, just non romantic sex partners.

last edited at Feb 2, 2023 3:56PM

Poor Nanami is so in her head she's slowly going insane by the looks of it. And Kae is just as oblivious as always.

I actually don't think Kae is oblivious anymore. The ending to the last chapter seems to suggest that Kae knows what's happening but is avoiding the subject (for unrevealed reasons). She likely knows what Nanami was hinting at in their convo about Koyuki as well.

I think one reason is pretty transparent from this chapter: Kaede does not see Nanami as her equal (nor vice versa, if we are entirely honest) and has internalized the notion that she has to earn Nanami's love before she may reciprocate.

Yeah, that's possible too but a few chapters ago (ch.17) Kae describes dating relationships as being troublesome and talks about how she'd like to avoid them (as they've caused issues in the past). In that scene she says she cherishes her friendships now and is content with that. This scene comes after Koyuki confesses to Kae (and Kae was talking with Nanami on the balcony). So I imagine Kae's past relationship experience is more what's making her worry and want to run from something that she likely assumes will end in the ruining of her present life with Nanami.

last edited at Feb 2, 2023 12:55PM

Poor Nanami is so in her head she's slowly going insane by the looks of it. And Kae is just as oblivious as always.

And I also want Koyuki to have her happy ending as well I've always liked her character. This series is what eight total volumes?(I think that's what mangadex said last time I looked). Hopefully someone comes along to charm her and maker her happy still have plenty of time.

I actually don't think Kae is oblivious anymore. The ending to the last chapter seems to suggest that Kae knows what's happening but is avoiding the subject (for unrevealed reasons). She likely knows what Nanami was hinting at in their convo about Koyuki as well.

last edited at Feb 2, 2023 12:47AM

Predatory Karen aside (gross) I reeaaaally didn't expect to find such a healthy way of dealing with and resolving conflict within a relationship in a trashy porn manga. Usually the drama is contrived and drags an issue forever when it should have been resolved ages ago by just talking.

Yeah for what it's worth I thought this was handled pretty well. They didn't patch things up immediately but also didn't drag things out.