It's that time of the month again, eh? When darkness swallows the comments and impatience rules.

But Kaoru as a character has yet to prove to me that she’s actually worth all this caretaking; I have a much greater readerly interest in Uta’s growth and well-being than in Kaoru’s, who seems to me to have been pretty immature, in denial, and conflict-avoidant, not to mention emotionally needy and self-centered.

Well, while the meandering might distract from it sometimes, this is still Uta's story. And Uta is entirely focused on Kaoru. The plot revolves around Kaoru, because she is the center of Uta's world. We are supposed to care, because Uta cares.

My gripe with the story is that while Uta has been agonizing over this a lot, her desire to get away has superseeded her focus on Kaoru, which makes the narrative focus feel disjointed.

She got rejected, she needs to erase this girl from her contacts and move on lol

We aren't talking about your personal life here. :P

Yes, as expected a stupid reason. Inferiority complexes are such a pain. I think this just makes Nene seem worse to be honest. The only reason she likes Kou and doesn't have those same negative feelings for her is because Kou stands behind the camera and won't be looked at like Amane would... Irrational feelings are irrational.

Kou sure has interesting methods to confront someone though. Pinning her down and almost kissing her was really necessary to ask her a question...?

Well... now we have a reason for senpai to be the actual antagonist, because now whoever wins the contest decides how these relationships are going to work out. It's really stupid to tie the resolution to winning a contest Kou. That was a pretty bad move.
Then again, this is an artsy story, so it's all about the poetic justice.

last edited at Jul 26, 2019 4:32AM

Pretty much the only way they could break up is by Kaoru's own decision.

That's the developpement she need. Story will go nowhere if Kaoru decide to accept this situation like she is in right now. The problem right now is who gonna beat some sense into her : Uta don't want to see her and Reiichi have done nothing beside cheating. Maybe Kuroe will be piss off and step in. She give me Masturi vibes so i can kinda feel it like it.

Usually I'd prefer the outcome where the spouses make up and find new trust in each other... but this does feel much like a loveless marriage. At least one without strong romantic love. And understanding that will just make everyone feel miserable.

Kuroe has no involvement nor interest in the family situation aside from finding Uta's struggles amusing.

So what signals do you think this text is clearly sending about what outcomes in terms of plot or character are in the category of “probable/highly likely”?

I cannot predict an outcome, but I can at least sieve out unlikely scenarios. There is of course nothing speaking against the possibility that after severe shock (perhaps of a stressful confrontation with Reiichi + his ex) Kaoru might break down mentally in unexpected ways...

As I've repeatedly said, I can't really see a happy ending for this story, but I can at least say that this story has not been awfully going off the rails. Most of the conflict comes from miscommunication or complete lack thereof. So when characters are forced to communicate the resolution is usually in the sane spectrum. Case in point Kaoru rejecting Uta clearly and Uta accepting it (as opposed to what you would generally expect from this type of story).

It is likely that Reiichi cheated, because it is implied he only broke up with his ex because Kaoru needed him. It is hard to ignore your previous love if it never actually ended.
It is likely that Uta will have a change of heart and try to support Kaoru again. She has been strongly focused on becoming independant, but in the end this is not about her independance, but the mental health of the one she loves. Her conflict with her mom is unavoidable too. In the end I guess it will be a situation where they support each other for healing.
It is likely that even if Kaoru confronts Reiichi he will not try to divorce her or leave her. Whether Kaoru will be able to still cope is a different matter. Pretty much the only way they could break up is by Kaoru's own decision.

Oh and Kuroe will grow to love Miyabi and eventually understand it too. That's probably the only outcome I can predict lol

I think jumping to suicide is a huge leap.

No pun intended, I hope.

I hope you won't punish me if it was intended.

Execution for punning is justified.

You've just punctuated your view. I'll claim non-intent then.

I never watch any soap operas. Why does that sound impossible given the circumstances ? She can't be much more at ground zero right now.

As I already told you, before a psychotic breakdown or development of a depression that leads to suicidal thoughts you actually would get any hint at all. Especially in fiction were every emotion and action is exaggerared. If Kaoru had these tendencies we would already have been clued in by the time she suspected Reiichi of cheating.
Kaoru's mental scape as we have seen is one of an escapist, not someone who self-harms.

That is why it sounds at the very least extremely unlikely (if not impossible, because nothing is technically impossible).

last edited at Jul 25, 2019 5:37PM

If either of those are used in a derogatory fashion then they do, because how you use words actually matters. Context too,. Reclaiming those traditionally-derogatory words is the business of people they apply to, not others. So they're perfectly fine in the "in-group" but heavily discouraged in the "out-group" that doesn't include them.

I, a white person, am not in a position to reclaim the n-word and should therefore not be slinging it around. It's not for me, and claiming that it is, is in effect a racist act. The effect is the same whether I mean it badly or not.

In more practical terms, I'm going to call for not saying the n-word or variants in these forums regardless.It is not in any way an appropriate venue for it.

The more you treat a word like it comes from the devil the more you give it power. Also those groups that it is used against should not be using it either, as it is derogatory either way. This modern sensibility is rather self-defeating.

I'm not suggesting to use them against people (I mean they are literally insults, you also don't see me calling people assholes here). I'm merely saying that being afraid to even write them is... troubling to say the least.

As much as I hate to say this trite garbled nonsense phrase... that is very much American outrage culture.

I have always wondered something, is queer people calling each other "fags" and "dykes" equivalent to black men calling each other the n-word?

That came outta nowhere.
Well the idea is that if you use the slurs yourself they lose power over you. The problem is that instead you make them your personal terminology and still perceive it as an insult if used by an outsider. It's kind of pointless.

They are just words. Saying nigger doesn't make you racist and saying dyke doesn't make you homophobe.

last edited at Jul 25, 2019 2:54PM

BTW I didn't like the anime.

Please man! You don't have to go like this! Let's talk this through! You still have so much Bocchi to live for... don't throw it away like that! I will keep the fans busy, you better runnnn-!

A professor of biology should know that human necks don't bend 180°s like owls'. Or maybe she is testing Lily's neck strength. Impressive, always ready to broaden her knowledge.

last edited at Jul 25, 2019 2:49PM

I think jumping to suicide is a huge leap.

No pun intended, I hope.

I hope you won't punish me if it was intended.

last edited at Jul 25, 2019 2:45PM

^It's a visual thing. You aren't supposed to eat them Nezchan.

Frank reactions like Kuro's are so refreshing.

I guess the mysterious woman was Madam Maybe-I-Cheated-with-your-bro. Anything could happen. Or nothing.

Science has uncovered the following:

And people wonder why young lesbians are perpetually confused.

Also i don't say Kaoru will attempt suicide for trying to bring back Uta to her but she will attempt because she will be at wit's end.

I'm saying the plot device does not lead to anything stable. Not that Kaoru would do it for that reason.

Then why cheat on her ? You know your wife has no family and you marry her because you don't want her to be alone. Cheat on her is the last thing you want to do because you know it will hurt her the most. Not only the one she love marry her by what you can call pity but he also cheat on you and hide it. What kind of good this relation can have ? Said like this it feel like a one sided love.

That's why cheating is done behind the spouses back so they won't find out. There are many reasons to cheat and there are far worse things he could do. Nothing you say really contradicts me here.

If Kaoru decide to forgive him for that than i will drop the manga or at least not care anymore of what happen to Kaoru. If you choose to still love someone who cheat on you and only marry you out of pity then go ahead but don't blame anyone for getting hurt.

Meh, that's your right. The situation is not black and white and cannot be treated that way.

last edited at Jul 25, 2019 12:28PM

Of course being away from Kaoru will be painful for Uta, and of course she will still have a continuing emotional investment in Kaoru’s well-being.

If that is so and she actually cared she should be aware that Kaoru's situation is far from alright. She is so focused on getting away that she isn't paying attention. Maybe that's closer to what one might consider "running away" in this context.

I know but honestly if the endgame is really Uta X Kaoru, i don't really think the cheating will be enough to bring back Uta to rethink her position. It's quite the big leap but if Tmnr have some balls, we can get to that. I can't call myself at all a expert in suicide but iirc some peoples don't show suicidal tendencies before doing it.

I've been saying that probably since the beginning, but whoever decided Uta x Kaoru is endgame? I don't see any happy end as of now, only lesser evils. And a suicide attempt is not a way to get anything stable going.

I think that's the biggest flow in my plan of events. It's pretty sure Reiichi will deny it unless he have really plan to break with Kaoru which i don't really think it's possible right now. What i think will happen is that Kaoru will ask someone of Reiichi's company about Reiichi supossing going overseas and will try to corner him to get the turth.

I'm going further here, even if there is undeniable proof of him cheating (which we cannot be sure of) Reiichi would not abandon Kaoru. This marriage is not based on pure love, but mostly on Reiichi not wanting to abandon Kaoru.

BugDevil posted:

There is not even any way to predict how Reiichi will react or what will happen if she really does confront him. Everyone seems to already assume somehow that he will leave her or ignore her.

And he actually did want to confront Kaoru over it when beans were spilled, but because she pretended to not remember, he used that opportunity and was avoiding topic ever since.

Whatever the circumstances may truly be (its funny how we still have no actual confirmation that he cheated), one thing we do know is that Reiichi genuinly cares for Kaoru. When she pretended to have lost her memory that was a convenient escape route for him, because confronting the situation would hurt her.

Reiichi went a long way for Kaoru, but he is also painfully passive. I would definitely not believe that he would ever abandon her or let her knowingly suffer. She is a good actress and he is not exactly the passionate woman whisperer.

The only way for them to get split up is if Kaoru actively pushes him away.

last edited at Jul 25, 2019 11:30AM

While Lilliwyt's claim of Uta "running away" is weirdly put

Yeah, as you can have guess writing is not really my forte and english is not my mother tongue so it can be possible i made mistakes in my choice of world.

I think your biggest mistake actually is to jump to suicide. There is absolutely no hint for Kaoru having any suicidal tendencies. Quite the opposite, she will ignore problems or retreat into her little bubble. I don't know why you think that is a good idea either, even hoping for it. That's a terribly contrived solution.

There is not even any way to predict how Reiichi will react or what will happen if she really does confront him. Everyone seems to already assume somehow that he will leave her or ignore her.

^ This is an extremely weird take on personal responsibility—Uta is doing what by most reasonable standards she should have done long ago: taking herself out of an emotionally painful, no-win situation and trying to move on with her life.

Rather than “running away” from a problem that she has the power to resolve, Uta is making a mature choice—one that is considerably more mature than many of the choices made by the supposed “adults” in the story.

Having confessed and been rejected, Uta has no responsibility to ensure that “Kaoru will be ok.” If anyone has that responsibility, it’s her husband—lol.

Dont make me disagree with you...
While Lilliwyt's claim of Uta "running away" is weirdly put, I think you are also looking at the situation too one-sidedly. Accepting the rejection and trying to get herself out of the emotionally painful situation are obviously the mature and optimal choices, but the way Uta goes about it is not. Running towards her monster-mom will hurt her more. Abandoning Kaoru will hurt her as well.

This is very unlike you to say things like "She doesnt owe her lol". First of all whether Kaoru rejects her feelings or not, they are family and Uta deeply cares about Kaoru. Her brother and Kaoru have been taking care of her for a long time and pretending that she would have no sense of responsibility for them is straight up callous.

It seems you tend to mix up decisiviness with maturity sometimes.

last edited at Jul 25, 2019 10:45AM

I think jumping to suicide is a huge leap.

Wish people treated lolicons like that as well. I mean, it's funny how everyone hates Boku no Pico so much (and understandably so) but no one gaf about the tons of similar loli stuff out there...

Well I can't speak for anyone, but I find both appalling. True equality and all that.

BugDevil posted:

I think we can all agree to disagree, but everyone knows Shotacon is a big no.

No

See, even Nevri voted No on Shotacon.

I think we can all agree to disagree, but everyone knows Shotacon is a big no.

BugDevil posted:

GreenTomato posted:

No

Yes

That was a yes to the no, meaning the No is amplified.

No

That was a no to the yes, meaning the No was amplified.