Wow, they finally confessed after all these chapters. What next, holding hands?

Really nice that the twist was just her dad wanting to be involved though.

last edited at Apr 26, 2019 5:26PM

The recurring theme in this thread and some other ones of these characters only being legitimate if the character is trans and not a crossdresser is a little naive at the very least. It's a real phenomenon with an extremely long history in the US and some amount of history in Japan, it's not just a reader fetish or author fetish. Some of the people writing these mangas have explicitly done their research - I can't speak for Kobayashi Kina but Fumiko Fumi interviewed some trans women and mental health specialists in her home country and has written a manga about a real crossdresser from Japan who explicitly identifies as male.

At the very least, I think it's healthy to have some stories out there that don't enforce a 'either you're a girl or you're a boy' binary on kids who may still be getting a grip on their identity and their feelings. I personally know multiple trans women who started with crossdressing or drag before realizing who they really were.

last edited at Dec 9, 2018 7:11AM

If the translator reads these forums, there are a few different pages where 'Metera' and 'Sutera' are switched in dialogue, I think mostly in the first section involving them.

For example https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/gurayuri_soushuuhen#45 appears to be Metera getting asked a question but the name in the bubble is Sutera.

last edited at Sep 3, 2017 3:09AM

Hah, that's the baby from Non Non Biyori S2 when Renge and Hikage are playing with dolls

There's another volume left.

Yeah, but they also still think of Marika as a boy dressed as a girl and still call them Yuuta at times.

That's Akane. She still calls Marika Yuuta sometimes (always?)

Details like the flashback on p45 make this series more interesting to me, the heroine is clearly just really adapted to messed up situations and doesn't function like a normal person as a result. Much better than if she were just a sort of flat 'evil cutie' stereotype. Calculating and detached but not in an 'unable to feel emotion' way, more like walled off and defensive.

The way the little girl is written makes me think they probably share similarly nasty backgrounds and we'll find out more about them as it goes on, which should make things interesting.

ＮＯＰＥ

Thanks to the artist and the scanlators but wow, totally not feeling this. I don't know what tag would suffice for something like this (almost-rape) but wow, it needs some sort of D: warning for sure. Not sure how the series could be salvaged after a start like this.

last edited at Dec 1, 2015 4:15AM

Just in case you question now yuri it is Yukiko and a bunch of her friends made a 90 some pages anthology of just Sakurako and Kasumi being gay AF soooooo.

Honestly you should just read it like they're married. It's not really that far off anyway

This is my uninformed opinion, but I'm happy seeing stories tagged as yuri even if it's just a really intimate platonic friendship/pseudo-couple relationship and not sexual. I thought the yuri tag was appropriate for Stretch even if it never reached the point that many yuri fans (myself included) would have liked, for example - the interpersonal and characterization aspects were as good as many yuri stories that I've enjoyed. I've met more than one very intimate long-term couple that had no sexual component (because one/both of them were asexual).

Room For Two is kind of shallow so far but I feel like the tag isn't super unreasonable. Might make sense to remove it in a few chapters if the characters' relationship goes nowhere.

Keiko having a boyfriend was a real shocker. It was never implied that she had one (or maybe I just didn't catch any implications that she had one), except for the ex-fiancé, unless they're talking about the same guy.

...

So many questions, why does Keiko have to move away (it can't just be about her job), who was the boyfriend she broke up with, why can't we just have a Keiko x Ran end.

The last panel with Ran really pulled at my heart strings.

I keep seeing people assume that Keiko has a boyfriend but there's not really any indication that she does? The obvious explanation is that she's moving temporarily for work - previous chapters suggest this, and it's not a terribly unlikely thing. Keiko finally broke up with her ex-fiancé, in part because Ran was pushing her to do it. Ran is living on her own because she (presumably) can't move with Keiko. I can't imagine a med student being able to commute that distance every day and it seems like it would be hard for her to find a new school there, so it's not like it's easy for either of them to go 'hey, let's go together'.

EDIT: In a sense, it's kind of 'right' for a lot of this stuff to happen off-page. Things between Keiko and the ex aren't really Ran's business and she's been very circumspect about the subject, so it makes sense that she wouldn't find out directly how things went. Their discussion before was pretty abstract in this same 'we both know what i'm talking about, but it's not my business' fashion.

Keep in mind that one of the reasons kids living in the family home with absent parents is so common in anime/manga is that for a salaryman it's not unheard of for your company to have you move temporarily for work. If you're curious about that, http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/ mentions that and some other aspects of full-time employment culture in Japan.

last edited at Oct 1, 2015 2:04AM

I have no idea what that last omake is about or who those people are but yaaay super smash bros.

Tomochi is the boy who used to crossdress and is interested in Marika. Tomochi's older sister is the girl who encouraged Marika to go see a doctor. The tall girl is the girl she told Marika about as a way to encourage her to see a doctor sooner rather than later.

Ryou's grandma sure wants great-grandkids, doesn't she?
Ayumu is a good older sister.

Spoilers spoilers spoilers. I can't easily tag this whole post so scroll past it if you haven't read the latest chapter yet.

Ryou's dream in this chapter is one of the most interesting things in the series for me. I found it confusing in Japanese and it's no less confusing in English now that it's translated... it implies a lot of things and the imagery feels powerful to me even though very little is 'going on' in it.

Just the way he looks in response to seeing her again says a lot. I think the dream represents multiple things at once, all tangled up - but the details we get from Ryou & grandma in this chapter help explain it along with some other things that happened in previous chapters.

When talking with grandma, Ryou says he's not free of blame for what happened, which is a theme the series has flirted with a few times - the mutual dependence he shared with his mom, how she knew but was in denial, how his motives weren't entirely consistent or pure, etc. I think this is the first time he acknowledges the role he played in everything.

One of the main chapters this ties back into is Chapter 17. Ryou spends almost the entire chapter doing things without fully understanding his motives, feelings or desires. His world is changing and his response is conflicted. Then in Chapter 18 we see a bunch of the past from Hachiya's perspective and get the impression that Ryou never grieved and was locking away his emotions from the beginning.

So, the dream - I think it represents a few things. Ryou spent his whole life following in his sister's footsteps and emulating her, but suddenly they split onto separate paths and she entered... the world of a girl? Probably not quite that, but something along those lines. Up until that point he had no need to form an identity of his own, he could just go along with the sister he admired, since the two of them were similar and often confused for each other anyway. Then that changed, and he felt lonely and abandoned. You're going that way. In the first place, things like going out with Hachiya were his way of trying to assert that he was on his own path, even though he didn't know what his path was.

His conversation with Yui in the dream is interesting: "That doesn't make any sense, that's just gross, it's kinda creepy." "I was creeped out by it too, but I..." But what? Well, a few things I think: Being able to keep following in her footsteps is comfortable, being able to pretend to be her and capture some of his mother's affection (even if it's twisted) again is comfortable. He identified with his sister and envied his sister. The screwed up scenario he was in for most of the series gave him an opportunity to indulge his insecurities and desires, even if he was being pushed into it and horrible things were happening. The reason Marika made him so uncomfortable (especially early on) was because he saw some of himself in her, even though they had different motives and goals.

Then once things are 'fixed' that's all gone. He doesn't have any expectations to conform to anymore and he's being asked to figure out what he wants. He doesn't actually want to be in a relationship with Hachiya, so that relationship falls apart. Well, at the very least, as of this chapter he's figured out one thing that he wants - something the author showed us as early as chapter 5 - and gone for it!

last edited at Aug 7, 2015 3:55AM

another cured ending? like hoshino from hourou musuko

You mean Yoshino

And she's not "cured".

My take is that she didn't really want to be a boy. She just hated to be a girl and going through all these changes. Only when she accepts herself as a girl, because other people start to see her as such, she stops wanting to be a boy.

Like they say in the story, it's ok to change your mind. You can't decide for her for your own selfish reasons.

At least, Shuu isn't cured.

But I would have liked her and Shuu being a couple. I'm not sure how long Anna is going to stand by Shuu's side.

From what I remember, people have asked Shimura about this before - What's the deal with Yoshino? and her answer was roughly I don't know. It's definitely not 'I'm cured'. I can't find the tweet I'm thinking of though so I might be mistaken. ~____~

'They realized what they actually wanted' is one reasonable interpretation. Another realistic (and relatively dark) interpretation would be 'they settled'. Many people settle for what they feel like they can achieve, because the alternatives are too hard. IMO the series primarily gives you insight into Shuu's mind and heart, not Yoshino's - since Shuu is basically the protagonist. That makes it hard to figure out what Yoshino's decision at the end actually means. They're definitely conflicted about it.

The same theme sort of plays out here - for a while Ryou and Marika had been trying to accept things the way they were and settle for what they had but in both cases it just wasn't sustainable. And in both cases, they needed a push from other people to take action. It's actually an interesting contrast with Hourou because while that series spent a lot of time dealing with the characters questioning their own identities, Ryou and Marika know who they are at the start of this series (though perhaps not in exacting detail).

last edited at Aug 5, 2015 2:25AM

So all these new english chapters are by MiamMiam, but where are the chapters from? Their website is in French and only has French releases.

Thanks Tooko for the explanation!

I agree about the evolution of meaning of the words over the years.
Honestly I'm really new in the animanga culture, coupled by the fact that I'm non-native English speaker, the word "trap" eluded me for quite some time. And the expression "reverse-trap" was even worse. That's why I tend to stick to the original meaning after finding it. ^^'

That's another issue about that word (at least for me), even if "crossdresser" or "transvestite" aren't perfect, there is at least a direct link to the original meaning. "Trap" have no tie and is totally figurative.

But in that case, if there is no fitting word in English for that, in addition of the controversy behind the word "trap" which it is sometime considered as insulting, why not directly using the Japanese word? Like we do with "Tsundere", "Yandere" or "seme/uke"?

FWIW, danbooru's admins recently made the decision to change the 'trap' tag to 'otoko no ko' for that reason (Their userbase actually seemed rather upset by the idea, but the tag rename stuck). It's a well-intentioned idea that can work for a savvy audience, because they know what it means and you're not applying unintended meaning to it. On the other hand, the fact that it's a wordplay really sucks here - if you google the romanization or type it into a dictionary, the obvious #1 result is not actually what is intended. This works better in a case like danbooru or Dynasty Reader since tags can have an informative description applied, but that's not going to be true in most places.

'gender bend' is the least offensive english term I can think of for this general category of stuff, but it's soooo imprecise and vague.

Tooko already covered the breadth of this pretty well. I know plenty of people for whom 'trap' is a very hateful word. I'd strongly discourage anyone from using it in real life or to refer to a real person. Beyond that, though... it's already established itself as the term manga/anime fans use to refer to this stuff, so there's not much to do about that. In cases where a better/more precise word is available, use that one. Many scanlation groups (and commenters here on Dynasty) do so already.

If I'm not mistaken this is the last volume, so only about 3-4 more chapters to go. I wouldn't get my hopes too high.

According to the release post on hachimitsu's site there's another volume coming out in November and ongoing currently.

This volume is definitely not the end. It ends on a cliffhanger. I can imagine the series ending serialization soon, certainly.

Other mangas with this focus would have ended around this point in the story - Marika made her big decision, Parou has come to terms with some things, etc.

Not Bokura no Hentai, though - still going! It's shifting into something different now and I really like it. I figured the author was going to wind the series down, but a bunch of interesting stuff happens in this volume. Akane and Tomochi being regulars in the cast keeps it more interesting - Tomochi in particular is an interesting character. A lot of overlap with Parou & Marika but written differently from both of them and with conflicted motives.

Tooko: not super interested in arguing over finer details but I'd encourage you to look at this stuff less reductively. A handful of the titles you mentioned actually have gender identity themes that aren't too hard to notice...

All I'll say is that "reading between the lines" is not proof of gender identify themes explicitly being inserted into the plot of a given series. You can interpret lines of dialogue and narration any way you wish, but unless a character is explicitly referred to as trans, I don't think we should start throwing around terms like "transphobia" in a series where there is none.

Transmisogyny encompasses more than harassment of characters who are explicitly trans, likewise transphobia can be at play even if the person on the receiving end isn't actually trans. Transmisogyny treats femininity as intrinsically inferior to masculinity.

Most of the manga Hachimitsu translates ends up having a dose of one or the other in it, even though I wouldn't call most of them mean-spirited. It's mostly a result of genre trappings and culture, I think... Western culture certainly has its own set of horrible norms at work here, so I'm not exactly throwing stones. A story containing some transmisogyny or transphobia doesn't make it irredeemable, you just have to be willing to recognize it for what it is.

As an example, Usotsuki Lily is actually full of transmisogyny and dabbles occasionally with gender identity themes. I don't consider this anything more than a flaw, though, since by the end the author directly owns up to everything she got wrong in early chapters.

So, then! Bokura no Hentai and Sakura no Sono.
As far as we're explicitly informed, Marika is the only major trans character in Bokura no Hentai. Parou and Yui are not exempt from transmisogyny just because they're not trans! You can frame it all as homophobia if you like, but that label falls short since Yui isn't homosexual.

If people in the thread wanna toss 'trap' around to describe stuff like Bokura no Hentai or Sakura no Sono, go ahead I guess? Just be aware of what you're actually implying when you use that term for anything other than the tired 'crossdressing femme boy tricks hetero boys into unwittingly becoming gay' trope.

I'm reading AKB49 and ...

This manga is surprisingly interesting, thanks for mentioning it, Nya-chan.

Tooko: not super interested in arguing over finer details but I'd encourage you to look at this stuff less reductively. A handful of the titles you mentioned actually have gender identity themes that aren't too hard to notice...

last edited at Jul 28, 2015 6:05PM

Yay transmisogynistic tropes. Why can't we have manga with actual trans girl lesbians, so many missed opportunities.

Oh well, at least we'll always have Ayumi and Aika.

I'm kinda surprised at how this series is going so far - I thought the author did well with Bokura no Hentai. On the other hand... I probably shouldn't be.

I'm still not sure how to interpret Liz's character though. The ambiguity in p14/p15 in Ch11 is in the source text (I checked) - Liz is talking abstractly there instead of about themselves (i.e. no 'mine' or similar possessive language.) I assume this will be clearer in later chapters.

FWIW even though most of the manga Hachimitsu translates leans into the transphobic/transmisogynistic, they've translated a few relatively solid series that deal with trans themes and they handle those properly. So if that ends up being the case here they probably won't fuck it up...

On that topic of trans girl lesbians, Kyou Kara Yonshimai has one as a main character. Though that series itself isn't necessarily perfectly executed...

The whole thing is so sad. Btw, is it still just subtext even after the confession between Yoko and Liz?

I told you before, no subtext, besides Minmin. Liz is a crossdressing trap. He falls in love with Sakura. She reciprocates his feelings and they will try to make babies so they'll fuck. Another trap will come to pursue Liz, he fucks the teacher first and after that Yoko too, and then he tries to kill Liz

The things I miss when only skimming some of the chapters...

By the way, I'd split those spoilers apart so you're not dumping 20 chapters worth of plot on someone the moment they mouse over it.

Poor Minmin :( In Ch07 when I saw the tiny mark on Minmin's cheek, I immediately thought something was up, but I didn't expect what happened.

The way Fumi uses art style differences periodically in this series to give events more impact is pretty powerful. There's some really interesting stuff in the later chapters (especially 17 and 18).

last edited at Jul 25, 2015 10:13AM

There is no yuri. And if you thought Bokura no hentai was fucked up, wait 'till you read this...
If anyone is interested, you can read up to chp. 21 here:
http://tap.akitashoten.co.jp/comics/sakuranosono/12

Awww :-( Thanks. Wasn't sure since I missed a bunch of the chapters.

So.

Het ending, then?

Maybe Harem?

I own vol1 and skimmed some of the later chapters on the website. I don't want to spoil any plot points, and this series is complicated, but some guidance on tagging based on what I know:

Missing Y chromosome isn't accurate.
I'm pretty sure there are both yuri and het relationships.
Later chapters contain sex.
A character is probably trans.

If you're looking for something light and fluffy be warned that this series gets a bit dark. I like it, though. Interesting counterpoint to Bokura no Hentai.