Having stayed in that sort of Showa-era ryokan before, they are super nice. Well, I have different standards of comfort which boil down to "tatami and a Japanese breakfast" but still I wouldn't underestimate how great those places are. I stayed at places like that when I walked the Kumano Kodo. A big step up from capsule hotels.

Regular hotels are fancier but not any more comfortable and rarely as memorable. Plus usually they don't have a Japanese breakfast. I would stay in those ryokan over a normal 4 star hotel any day.

On the one hand, I understand why they are being awkward, on the other hand, life ain't perfect and the "why" of people is not something you can easily state - I would say that most of people's "why" reasons for anything have at least a bit of fiction in them or some weird stuff, really people are moved to do what they do and in the end you just have to hope it's creates something worthwhile.

They're gonna have to have this conversation about Tsugumi and whatnot, but rather than feeling guilty over that being the start of why they're together, or feeling like it means it's not real or it's wrong, how about just take that as a given and work from there? I know they'll get there somehow.

I'm kinda glad for Haru biting back. Meddling classmate needs to shut her pie hole. Don't judge what someone else is happy with. I think it's clear that on the balance they are happier together.

It definitely is being realistic. Kaoru is acting exactly like you would expect of her, really, that's how her character is. The lies from Risako this time are doing the opposite of reassuring her, the thing is she knows they're lies and can't pretend so easily now.

I was hoping she would accuse Reiichi but it figures she would go passive-aggressive. He would just deny it anyway. Definitely Uta leaving has unblocked the situation, in a sense she was playing "we can stay together (and I can ignore the lies) because of the kid!" But now that doesn't really work.

I'm not sure how it's going to happen, Reiichi and Kaoru both tend to avoid conflict, but this is just the first little blow-up. My impression (from watching other people) is that most divorces don't happen in a day, there is a period of arguing and lies being exposed in the case of cheating that goes on for months to years.

Well, now to wait another seeming eternity for the next step, probably going to Uta for a bit. If you read it all at once, the plot is actually going pretty fast, but because it's a serial it seems really slow.

The setup is a bit like "It's Like a Spring Storm" but I honestly hope it goes in a different direction. Well, it has to, because the character relationships are different, but yeah... This is a ship that's already sunk and the MC had better realize she's been haunting it like a big fat grouper. Time to move on.

That there is another person in the picture, if only by internet, is hopeful.

@adamatari By sleep together you just mean 'slept in the same bed' right? I dont recall these 2 being intimate - have they even kissed beyond jokey or friendship type kisses?

That's the joke.jpg

Honestly, even if they've never passed first base, they're further along than almost anyone else. Their ambiguous relationship is kinda the point for the series, but who says they aren't serious? The way I see it, their special treatment here is highlighting that - they're always holding hands, telling each other "I love you", and basically acting like a couple. It's only because we're looking from the outside and seeing them as a special exception to normal rules that we don't see that they've been a couple for a while when everyone else is still figuring it out.

Even in-universe they're seen as something like a special exception - it was mentioned that first year students consider meeting them a lucky charm somewhere? But everyone takes for granted they are together without thinking much about what that means.

Normally I wouldn't say this over one picture, but the contrast is too striking in context. The picture hit me right in the heart. I can't imagine that isn't on purpose.

"Rainy Season in the Empire"

You'll notice all the girls have their own umbrellas. They don't share. All of them, no matter how close and lovey-dovey they are with their fated yuri partners, carry individual umbrellas over their heads.

All of them... except for one couple.

These two may look and act like airheads, but, when it comes to yuri, they are like giants towering over all the other couples in the series and smirking smugly at their collective uselessness.

It's also interesting that while the rest of the cast is in black and white, MahiMahi come out in (rainbow) colors... They also have canonically slept together... I think you've described them perfectly. They may be short but their giants of yuri!

Ugh, is this even an argument? There are definitely two very different visions of NSFW manga that occur on this site (well, more, but talking vanilla here). There is stuff like Morishima Akiko's stuff, and on the other hand stuff that is unrealistic... That said, I think the tropes of porn cross both international borders and sexual borders. The "come at the same time" trope is probably number 1.

I recently played (read?) Kindred Spirits on the Roof, which despite "how does lesbian sex work?" being a central plot point, still has a lot of cloudy and fantastic elements in many of the sex scenes. There's no question that sex scenes tend to be a bit idealized even in the best stuff. Censorship doesn't help clear things up either - in Japan you can't show the actual sex organs without some sort of at least token censorship so...

That said, I think as a whole it's usually pretty clear whether your getting a pure fantasy or something more realistic, and I don't think there is a drought of either school. Bit if you avoid NSFW stuff entirely, well yeah, you aren't going to find Frank depictions of realistic sex.

I don't even think a job is what Neeko needs right now. Her lack of self-confidence will be self-fulfilling and she'll screw up, reinforcing her bad beliefs.

Thing is, Neeko isn't actually incompetent? She almost feel backwards into working through the whole "neighborhood association" thing. If it was something simple she might be okay. Part of her problem is trying to get a "serious" job, I think... Like that's the only way you can live, show up in a suit and work in an office? She's scared of the interview process, but part time work or work in non-white collar industries doesn't require that type of interview.

Not sure what would work, the flyer job almost worked out but she got freaked out about it and pulled away.

I can't help but worry that Mama Niito still doesn't understand the crux of Neeko's issues, because IINM tough parenting is the last thing Neeko needs. What she needs is someone like her dad, but one that takes a proactive approach with their kindness, starting with sitting her down and having an actual heart to heart talk that lets her finally pour all the angst she's been bottling up inside of her without fear of being punished for "failing" to live up to anyone's expectations.

Yeah this. Mama Niito is the embodiment of parental pressure. She's got good intentions but her approach is completely wrong. I think Uri-chan is hoping they can try a more gentle approach but how I don't know how she can save this.

Also, I can kinda understand Uri-chan's thing now. I wasn't sexually harassed but I was kinda slowly revolved into a job I hated and marginalized there. I'd like to think the trauma was fleeting but recent nightmares (twice recently, even) make it pretty impossible to pretend. I'm living off savings and not working just like Uri-chan.

Employment sucks so much sometimes. Honestly it's a wonder there aren't more NEETs - well, probably there are but we just don't hear about them much.

Somehow I envision this as being written directly out of Naoka's memories. Probably not (she's probably too young anyway), but that's what I imagine.

Re: paint thinner and marijuana, the situation in Japan is ironic given that Cannabis is canonically a sacred plant in Shinto, and the long standing tradition is to burn it on Obon (yeah, the dead are visiting you when you burn a bunch of psychoactive incense around the house... Totally coincidence - though now you can only legally burn stems, that's a modern restriction). Yeah, I think there is a lot of bullshit covering up the true historical use of cannabis in Japan. In any case, paint thinner is a much less safe idea, as are amphetamines, which are #1 illegal drug of choice in Japan.

The take that itou hachi is seriously implying dark things through some of her works (like this one) is super interesting to me and I'd like it to be real, I just can't really see this being all that serious. like even the highly illegal list of things onee wants to do at the end seemed like a joke to me? Maybe I'm just blind

It was definitely a joke. As someone pointed out early in the thread, lampshading. We know Onee-san is a creepy pedo but in-universe she's the main character, not a villain... She would never do anything to hurt the Otone... But she's a sick pedo full of creepy desires, which we can see from outside of the universe.

Probably one of the most central tropes of loli stuff is that the lolis are always enthusiastic. I think there was even a study on rape in hentai manga that came up with it being rarest in a few magazines (one being 0%, an editorial decision I applaud) and number 2 or 3 was Comic Lo, which you can guess from the title is a loli manga. The suspension of disbelief is that this is all a-ok and the way that disbelief is suspended is by the trope of willing, enthusiastic lolis.

I'm pretty sure the disturbing part is on purpose. It's funny because it's messed up.

I think Itou Hachi has a lot of disturbing stories they aren't telling, at least not yet. Even the fluffy stuff always seems to have some unanswered questions leading to nasty conclusions. Well, compared to being kept (and possibly raped) by your parent's killer, I think this story is hardly the most disturbing...

I am looking forward to the next chapter. Few stories dare to tread openly into the dreaded meeting with the parents.

With as many complaints about the first chapter as there are, I have to say it makes sense - like a thought experiment, what happens next? Almost no story bothers to deal with the aftermath or what next. The Graduate (which is actually pretty creepy to watch nowadays, and sadly dead on when it came to the infamous 'plastics' advice) ended with them in a taxi and not even looking each other in the eye, basically foreshadowing bad things.

This story starts where many manga end, and goes from there. There some good stories like this on the site but they certainly aren't the most common.

I dont know ANYONE, who married through an arranged or "gold digger/reputation" marriage, so I just cant relate to it, why you should do it. Whats the percentage in Japan for "no love" marriages btw?

A lot of then, the way Japanese see marriage is pretty diferente, is not good for you to marry someone who is broke, even though you love the person. I just don't think is very common for the person just to quit their job.

Isn't it fairly common (perhaps even expected?) for Japanese women getting married to quit their jobs/careers and start a family

YES. It's still very common, to the point of being expected. That said, there are a lot of working mothers nowadays, and those expectations are changing, but it depends on the workplace.

Well, it's nice that soccer guy actually IS a nice guy. I think he's confused everyone else in the story more than anything. It's not like he has any control over who he's attracted or anything. It seems to me that he and Hime and Akira will have to figure it out, which is refreshing in a sense? Rather than making him a villain or something.

I think the last chapter shows Akira's strong points, it's easy to confuse Akira for a weak character but really she's just carrying a lot of stuff and it's hard to do that. Like she understood the teacher right away, which a lot of people wouldn't. I wonder how Soccer boy is going to approach Hime now and how Akira will approach Soccer boy.

You know, this manga is a story about LGBTQ characters without being a story about just overcoming the opposition of the straight world. Not that there isn't some of that in there, but it's not what it's about, and there are a lot of supportive characters too. I like that aspect a lot. It doesn't have a sense of being separate from the world, which a lot of manga on this site seems to be. Male characters exist as actual characters. People interact. Parents exist, and some are supportive and some are not.

One of these days I'd like a yuri story where they actually meet and talk to the parents. Octave is one of my favorites, but I think it really could have had a story with meeting the parents which it lead up to but left hanging at the end. If I was to write a doujin it would be an Octave after story. The strength of this manga, despite feeling sometimes like an omnibook of LGBTQ, is that it doesn't exist entirely in a box.

Lean too heavily into realism and you develop a sort of dreary feeling that isn't very fun to read for me.

It sounds like you, too, have read Anton Chekhov.

Something about Shimura Takakos manga just puts me off, and I'm not even sure what it is, but I just can't get into this, or any of her other, manga.

They all have this awkward edge. They don't ever have a fulfilling romance thing EVER. Like a sort of anti-particle to Morishima Akiko's manga.

We will know things have really changed when you get something that looks like it should be a harem anime but you can't tell who is going to hook up with who of what gender.

I think this manga, and others, reflect a change in consciousness that is ongoing in Japan. What used to be played as subtext, or covered in symbolism (Utena), now is being faced. I think if Nanoha was remade today they wouldn't shy away from marrying Nanoha and Fate. Yagakimi got an anime and has done really well. This manga exists in the context of modern day Japan, not Europe or the US.

If it seems preachy, I think it's because we come from a place where the issues are more worked out. Not perfectly, but to a greater degree for sure. Keep in mind that same sex marriage is still not available in Japan.

'tis the season of preachy mangas.

Well, you can always read NTR.

Sometimes i think the author firstly create this manga as just "random" and "perverted" moments between girls, but then saw the opportunity to actually develop a plot in the story and make the main pair the most long angst i ever seen xd (if any of you know some angsts more stressfull than this, i would be glad if it's shared with me, thanks)

Definitely. This manga started out seeming pretty lacking in substance, but turned into this. Especially with the character groups interacting with each other, it brought out a lot more. Mahimahi particularly felt gimmicky at first. If you were to tell me when I first read this manga that it's going to get less ecchi but better at the same time I would not have believed it.

Reicchi just doesn't play the super friend anymore but not the kaoru lover very far from there, the kisses he keeps them for

Yet another example of how difficult it is for readers to separate out:

• ThIngs that we can definitely infer from the text

• Things it is reasonable to infer from the text

• Things it is possible to hypothesize from the text

• Things that are definitely supported by unequivocal specific evidence from the text itself

NOT included in the last category: that Reiichi is having a sexual affair with Risako

We know from the text that Reiichi was with Risako when Kaoru had her accident, and we know Reiichi was lying about being out of town on business at the time. We know Risako also lied about not seeing Reiichi since the wedding.

Indeed, we don't have any proof Reiichi is cheating. We know both he and Risako are lying, and we know Kaoru knows they are lying. If he's not cheating there is still something they are hiding. It's pretty clear that this happened before in the past, when they were in high school.

Having just re-read this, the pace strikes me as not slow at all - the side character stories took up about a volume, but the main story pretty much goes from one thing to another. It just seems slow because we're reading it as it comes out.

Also, I honestly find Kaoru more sympathetic on a second read through. She's got good reason to be fucked up, really, almost anyone would be. I think she's reacting to it really badly (really? you want a kid? REALLY?) but at the same time she kinda lost her timing on every point it seems. It's clear she was going to ask what happened with Reiichi and Risako before and that she hasn't forgotten at all. But the thing with Uta came up as well, and not Uta is gone so she doesn't have the support she would need to go forward on the cheating thing... She's lost her moorings, really. I think probably her work (handcrafted items) is the closest to a stable thing there, and who knows how much she's actually making only that she spends all her time on it.

We still don't have the full story in a lot of ways. The relationship of the parents, the apparent botched medical work (?), the divorce that hasn't happened yet between Uta's parents, and of course the cheating angle. Risako and Kaoru were very close friends too.

It's a fine mess. I think Uta at least has a clear way out, but Kaoru does not.

We don't know what Hino did to Omi, this is the sort of thing where normally I expect it to be revealed as something harmless as a joke somewhere.

The way this is super popular and causes explosions in the comments reminds me of Citrus. Admit it guys, you like this. You LOVE this. You will come back for more, especially if the characters get more twisted up and wrung out by the author.

Honestly I'm hoping for a good end for Kaoru and Uta, but I have to admit I'm as much in it for the explosion of the Kaoru and Reiichi's relationship as anything. Ideally I'd want to see Reiichi get caught out entirely and given the 3rd degree. I want him to suffer a bit for what he's done.

I am watching this for the car crash and I know I'm not alone. I want Kaoru to find strength and happiness, but I also want to see a glorious mess on the way.