@random^. That's a pretty plausible reading, and I wouldn't be shocked if we were to eventually get evidence (i.e., Igarashi's POV) to support some or all of it.

The reason it's not my own first-order reading, though, is that Igarashi's shocked reaction to Nanoha's claim-staking announcement really seems to be genuine--"Y-you're dating, as in a relationship? But you're both girls? . . . You're really, / Truly dating?"

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/hana_ni_arashi_ch46#15

Either she's a consummate actress, or that expression says that it's the first time she's actually considered a real same-sex relationship, which would definitely rule out any romantic intent behind her return to school.

(And of course, as I seem to be saying ad nauseam, it makes those "more than friends" chocolates highly problematic.)

EDIT: Just to clarify the overall point, my read is that we're still getting contradictory signals and until we get something more definitive, it remains up in the air as to what Igarashi thinks she is/was up to in regard to Chidori.

I've been going back and re-reading the flashback chapters every time we got a new one, and honestly, my reading of it was this:

Igarashi fell -hard- for Chidori when they first met. Love at first sight type stuff. She is immediately affectionate, but also pretty sad. She never really strikes me as a player. Her expressions just seem to go back and forth between adoration and sorrow. She doesn't strike me as someone who was playing with Chidori's feelings at any point, She strikes me as somebody who is convinced her feelings can't possibly bear fruit.

I don't know why she's like that. I could speculate on possible reasons, (like a previous heartbreak or homophobic parents,) but for whatever reason she went out with her childhood friend, because that's what you're "supposed" to do. Still, the heart wants what it wants, and after she broke Chidori's heart, she was slammed with regret. She decided to try and win her back, to make it up to her, so she gave her the chocolate. I think that, too, was probably sincere. A real attempt to win Chidori over and start an actual relationship. We have zero information about whether she was still dating the boyfriend at that point, so whether she was bravely making a serious move or just trying to have it both ways is impossible to say at this point. But Chidori refused the chocolate and rejected the advance, because she had already moved on, and felt she needed to end it cleanly.

Igarashi graduated, and left. But she didn't get over Chidori, so she comes back to try and win her back again. I took "I made a mistake" as a sincere regret over hurting Chidori and giving up on their relationship. Once Nanoha shows up, she seems to suspect what's up, but it isn't until Nanoha actually says it out loud that she's really certain that Chidori has moved on. She seems like she's stepping out gracefully at the end there.

I mean, i just don't feel any sense of maliciousness or callousness. She just seems depressed and resigned. I agree with everyone that says she made her own bed, she clearly deeply hurt Chidori and Chidori was definitely right to shut her down on valentines. She shouldn't have kept her boyfriend a secret while pursuing Chidori. (We don't know if she meant to or not, but she definitely should have brought it up.) I just pity her. I think it'd be interesting to see her POV. I think it'd be pretty neat if Nanoha's boldness inspired her to find a girlfriend at college. She actually seems to brighten up a little after the declaration.

I dunno, I could be wrong, that's just how it felt to me during the read.

last edited at Aug 31, 2019 10:06PM

I’m not sure why everybody is so anxious for them to spill the beans about their relationship—we’ve gotten all this world-class cute with them keeping it a secret so far.

What exactly would be so much better about the series if they were to come out (aside from for the “progress” fetishists, I mean)?

I can only speak for myself, but I like stories where gay relationships are out and proud. It's part of the life for anyboddy that's been there (not coming out necessarily, that's each couple's decision to make, but the struggle of deciding whether to come out) and if it's shown as a positive thing and their friends are accepting, it sets a good, positive example on how people should respond if one of their friends comes out.

Also, in a series like this, where the secrecy of their dating is emphasized so continuously, it's hard not to see it as a plot element to be overcome by the end. Like, every time they say "we're secretly dating", it feels to me like the author is setting up a payoff where after they come out, they're surrounded by their supportive friends, walking hand in hand and chatting happily with everybody, and we get the payoff of "we're....openly dating", or something to that effect.

Which means I could be utterly, completely wrong. (But even if I am, I won't go back and delete my posts or anything. >_> /cough cough)

I didn't delete them because I'm wrong. I deleted them, because this conversation was going nowhere. I don't have time and nerves to waste on such pointless arguments. Also for the record, you are wrong. Just like Heavensrun with their second post, but whatever. I tried to correct their misinformations in the past, but they either didn't see them or didn't bother to reply, so I give up. Keep talking about things you have no clue about.

(cranks up middle finger) Either make an argument or piss off with the passive agressive "this person is wrong about things that I'm not going to explain or debate about" whinging.

Isn't the top/bottom/switch thing a yaoi thing that people just kinda started using for het and yuri stories too? Despite not fully reflecting the reality of any of these?

Not really. I mean, it's definitely an actual thing, like Shadesofgreymoon said. It's a bigger deal in the yaoi fandom because it's about who's pitching and who's catching, if you catch my drift. But everybody falls on a preference spectrum, ranging from "I need to be dominant"----->"I prefer being dominant"----->"I can go either way"----->"I prefer being submissive"----->"I need to be submissive".

People all the way at the ends are outliers, but they exist. Many people just kind of prefer one or the other, and some people literally just DGAF or even prefer going back and forth. It's all valid.

One of main reasons I like yuri is that there are no rigid roles in relationship as well as in bed. That's why I'm always annoyed about the whole top/bottom thing, because to me it's just forcing het stereotypes where they're not needed. And sure you can have more passive and aggressive characters, but (hot) lesbian sex to me was always about both girls pleasing each other.

They aren't "het stereotypes", and suggesting that they are is actually a -sexist- stereotype. "Top" and "bottom" have nothing to do with male and female. I know plenty of heterosexual females who are dominant and males who are submissive and vice versa. It's just an aspect of the character's personalities, and fans are interested in understanding those things because they're fans. They argue about it because they argue about every aspect of the character's personality, because, again, they're fans.

If you're a switch, that's fine, that's who you are and what you like. Not everybody is the same.

Folks have come up with some fine indulgence-wishes. Sayaka and the cafe women would be great, but a little distracting for a final chapter, especially when Sayaka’s getting plenty of space in the spinoff.

And I agree that Rei is a world-class onee-chan who deserves a nice curtain call.

But if invited to be truly selfish, I’d have to say: Koyomi and Renma-sensei.

(What can I say—I’m a sucker for the bookish ones.)

It depends on how the finale is structured. I could see a time skip to college where we hop scenes a bit and catch up with everybody, or even just a few panels of where everybody ends up, or she could just focus on Yuu and Touko. (but we know Yuu stays friends with Sayaka through college, so even if that's the case, we could still get an update of some kind.) There's tons of ways the finale could be handled.

I also feel like we're still likely to get a bonus chapter with the tank, though, so that might be where we get an epilogue of some sort. Sayaka feels like too big a part of the story to just leave out entirely, tho.

last edited at Aug 29, 2019 2:26PM

What's a self indulgent thing y'all want to see in the final chapter, like something you would love but isn't necessarily important? For me, I want one last interaction between Yuu and Rei, because I love Rei, she's always great. If you do answer, remember to tag anything that may contain a spoiler ;)

I'd love to see Yuu's friends get flatfooted by the revelation of her relationship with Touko. I'm considering drawing it myself if it doesn't happen. Akari is just flummoxed, Natsuki is a little lonely about it, Koyomi already suspected but is still caught off guard that she was right.

I'd also like to see Sayaka get a girlfriend, natch. Further on that, I'd kinda like to see Miyako witness Sayaka getting a girlfriend, so she can have a proud mama bird moment, like Sayaka has come to manage Miyako's second store location, and there's a girl that keeps coming to see her, and Miyako can totally see the writing on the wall...

More Rei is always awesome. On the subject of family, maybe Touko's dad being accepting of their relationship but also pouty when he realizes he should have been more suspicious when Yuu stayed over while they were out of town. Maybe a scene where Yuu somehow communicates to Mio that she's going to take care of Touko. Maybe a visit to the gravestone, or a dream.

Doujima and Akari getting together.

(Thinks) Maki and Yuu continuing to be friends? I like their dynamic.

I just realize something. We haven't been told "it's a secret from everybody" since the first beach chapter.

In fact, I'm pretty sure the author never uses it again.

Maybe this means something, maybe she just finally got sick of it.

I don’t know what anybody’s problem with that was—lots of series have taglines that become unnecessary for regular readers. (Like Yamada’s “Kase-san is cool and kind of boyish . . .”)

But they’re, you know—taglines.

I mean, it was pretty minor, but that also annoyed me after awhile? So take that as you will. ;p

Am I the only one that feels a bit sorry for Igarashi? It seems to me like her feelings for Chidori were real, but she thought it was impossible. That isn't super uncommon as a trope in manga. It's also pretty common in real life for people who are gay to be afraid of accepting that about themselves. Yeah, she messed up and broke Chidori's heart, but she broke her own, too. She thought a relationship was impossible, but she still worked up the courage to give her valentine's chocolate and try to work it out anyway.

I could easily imagine a series where the protagonist falls in love with a girl, is depressed that she thinks they can't be together, goes along with her childhood friend that says he likes her because she thinks it's "normal", but ultimately decides to try and win over her crush after all. I'm pretty sure everybody here would ultimately be rooting for that girl.

I feel like her story is pretty tragic, and I kinda wish she would find someone nice to date now that she's had it reaffirmed that such relationships can exist. My sympathy is provisional on her not trying to break up the happy couple, but for now, she has my sympathy.

And I refute that Yuu is top. They are both taking initiative in turn, is all. That's the beauty of a balanced relationship.

Hey, relationships don't have to be switch to be balanced.

But sorry, no, Yuu is clearly in charge in bed. Touko is consistently hesitant to act but REALLY seems to enjoy it when Yuu takes charge, while Yuu seems perfectly happy to be the initiator of affection. This plays out in their relationship all over the manga. ;p

last edited at Aug 28, 2019 10:51AM

I admit, that was beautifully done.

They are not kids and the author doesn't treat them as such.

Spoiler: it looks like Touko doesn't like bell-peppers.

The bell pepper is a reference to one of the stage readings from the fan event back in May. Those scripts are pretty fun, so do check them out.

Oh my god I had completely missed this. It's super cute and actually kind of bittersweet. The way Touko runs after Yuu because she's reminded of how her sister died is just gutwrenching.

How is Nakatani so GOOD at this??

Have to keep up appearances for the 'rents

The most awkward abbreviation ever: parents => 'rents.

What, the kids don't use that one any more?

OHHHHHH!!!!
Boy that made me ask myself what the heck was that futon doing on the floor?

Have to keep up appearances for the 'rents

Chapter 44 spoilers :
YUU TOP
Thank you.

THIS WE TOTALLY CALLED IT

no actual desires of her own.

Pffftahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahah

MC might be in denial, but Koshiba definitely seems like she's not buying it. There's a lot of elements I like here, but yeah, it does feel kind of weirdly paced. Too many scenes that just stop without internal logic. The art is nice though, hopefully the writing will improve as it goes on.

Well, I mean, who would?

"No, no, I'm not like that! I'm not gay, I just don't like boys and kiss girls that I admire on the mouth without asking because I look up to them. It's totally innocent, you're just misunderstanding my intentions!"

What a comfy ending. I really enjoyed this story, especially the environment and their clothing. In my mind it's taking place in exotic 1920s Shanghai.

Wrong culture. This is definitely set in japan. Meiji era, late 1800s or early 1900s probably? I can't remember, did we ever get any establishing shots with possible landmarks? It feels like a major port city.

Personally. I appreciate what this manga is trying to do, I really do, and I enjoy Hime's new butch look, that said, I'd be lying if I said the writing wasn't seriously flawed. Even looking back at previous chapters, knowing what they where leading up to, Im still confused. Like the chapter where Hime talks to her parents, should be one of those chapters that you look back on and go "of course", but I just looked back on it, and I'm still confused what that chapter is trying to say. I'm, not even sure what it is, but there is something about the way this manga is told that I have difficulty following.

Right? Like that whole chapter is a monologue about something and I still am not sure what that something was. My issue is that the stances this manga preaches are often either tedious bullshit or extensive navel gazing with no clear point.

I don't think it's that complicated? She adopted the boys uniform to support Akira rather than because it was her own sense of identity. She isn't -really- comfortable in it, because she adopted it to support someone else rather than to express herself, but she also is afraid to abandon it, because she's still worried about Akira-chan. She was hiding it from her parents because she was afraid of what they'd say, but when they find out they make it clear they support her in what she wants to do, and think if she's not sure about something, she should try it out and see how it feels. (Her parents are actually pretty awesome.) She takes that to heart and decides to go back to the girl's uniform because, hey, if you aren't sure try it out and see how it feels.

Of course, as a result, she got attention she didn't want from a boy she has less than no interest in, and the girl she likes got hurt and pissed at her, so hey, okay, that sucked, time to try something different, which is when she shows up with the butch look. The sweater says "I'm not out to dress like a guy" but the pants and the haircut say "this isn't for you, boys."

Also I guess him reading one of Beniko's books was the final part. I imagine that convinced him that Beniko was good enough of an author to provide for Yuki, and thus have a stable life. So when you consider it from his perspective, seeing his daughter in obvious pain, knowing that she would never be happy in a forced marriage, and that the one she loved could provide her with a comfortable life, it's not that big of a stretch to see him accept it.

I don't think it's about her talent as an author. I mean, she's already clearly well off, that's evident in her lifestyle. I think it's the perspective the book gave him. It's clear from context that Beniko's books are about gay romance. Reading the book helped him understand what his daughter is feeling.

I liked the ending. I interpret the conversation the girls in the bookstore were having about Beniko's happy endings straining suspension of disbelief as a metacommentary on the story itself. Beniko writes stories where her characters' love overcomes all obstacles and they get a happily-ever-after always. The lovers' suicide made her feel the same as the one bookstore girl feels (that romantic happy endings are unrealistic) and consequently she was unable to finish her book. But all that was just another obstacle for her and Yuki's love to overcome, and when they get back together Beniko finishes her book and returns to success. The same is true of Yuki's dad, who has an "unrealistic" change of heart and decides to let his daughter run off and be with Beniko because she is in love and that is what would make her happy. And the girls in the bookstore kind of relate all this to the reader of the manga in an indirect way with their debate about the endings (specifically the endings) of Beniko's books.

Of course we are talking about a character's take on a fictional work within their own fictional world, though, so in a way it is kind of like the story is talking directly to any readers who might identify with Yuki. They are the Yuki reading about Yuki reading about her Yuki. If the reader sees it as just an unrealistic ending, however, maybe the reader is more like the bookstore girl, and really also like the suicidal lovers whose love did not manage to overcome all obstacles.

Or maybe I'm dumb. Without the meta part, it does seem on the face of it like a bit of a rushed ending. But secretly I'd rather be a Yuki.

I think the conversation is important as a plot device to get the father thinking about his daughter's happiness. The women are discussing not only the book's endings, but they're discussing how there is no happy ending for women that fall in love with women. How the harsh reality of the era means that happy endings are just a fantasy. It basically slaps him in the face with "Your daughter is miserable and you're hurting her." That changes his perspective when he sees her again, so after she breaks down he decides to read the book and understand her feelings, rather than just push his will onto her. And once he understands how she feels, he can't bring himself to force her into the marriage. I actually think it's pretty beautiful in that respect. He takes a stand against the expectations of society to protect his daughter's happiness. And it's pretty clear from what we see of his personality that that is contrary to his personality, which makes it a real act of love.

I can see how it could be taken as meta commentary, but I really think it's mostly there to push the story in the right direction.

Ok. I've missed this this series for a long damn time. Can someone tell me, what happened to the pink-hair girl arc?

It looks like Mo Xaionan's plot threadd was dropped in mid-gallop, so what we know at this point is just:

Mo begged SJ not to go meet QT,

SunJing was visibly bummed the next time she saw Qiu Tong, but got over it as soon as she saw her bae.

Mo was visibly upset with Sun Jing the next time we saw her.

All signs point to "she confessed, was shot down, and is now hurting over it." But the plot just kind of jumped tracks to Sun Jing and Qiu Tong dating and being flirty, possibly because the author needed the WAFF injection to deal with an oppressive government. (Or maybe as a fuck you to her publisher, who apparently wouldn't publish her book because it was explicitly romantic?)

See, there you go—totally not what QT is looking for.

Romantically, sure, but I could totally see QT and Dwayne Johnson being besties. He's just so goddamned personable.

The issue is that Akira in particular feels like a prop for Hime to grow rather than a full character. Like the amount of screen time she has got is so much lower.

Well, Hime is the protagonist. I get why that might be a sore point for some people, but it has clearly been the plan from the beginning. I wouldn't say Akira's a prop, so much as she's a supporting character. The story so far seems to be about Hime sorting out her feelings for Akira, realizing that she's gay as it gets, and that loving Akira romantically doesn't mean denying her gender.

That's kinda my feeling. I think part of why this manga gets a lot of flak is that it is trying to show people grappling with their own identity and what they want to be and, equally importantly, be seen as. I think Hime is trying to figure it out, that's the point.

I feel like people complain that when it comes across straighforwardly it's "preachy" but when it tries to show any nuance they complain it's "confusing"? Seriously.

I'm trying to be better about pigeonholing other people's interpretations, but I do think the series seems to be doing it's best to reasonably reflect young people struggling with nuanced questions of identity, so It makes me a little sad to see so many people on here being harsh on it for whatever reason.

Hime is a he now? Am I reading this right? rip yuri

I don't think Hime identifies as male, I'm pretty sure this is just about how she wants to dress and who she wants to look attractive to.

I don't think it's terribly relevant as Kidoguchi knows Shimizu is gay, right?

He doesn't know for sure. Shimizu has only come out to Maekawa. So even if Kidoguchi suspects it, I don't think someone who is not certain of someone else being gay or how comfortable they feel openly talking about it, would use a female pronoun.
Not trying to argue, just my two cents. Seems like "they" would be more appropriate here, considering the fact that he doesn't directly use a female pronoun in Japanese as well.

So, there are no gendered pronouns in Japanese, but in English, gendered pronouns are so common that people consider it conspicuously out of your way to use they/their/them. This adds a complicated subtext to a lot of manga, especially queer-genre manga, because you can give the impression that someone is guarding their sexuality when they're actually speaking frankly, or you can give the impression that someone has been "tipped off" to things they're already supposed to know, or any number of other little mischaracterizations.

I believe it's generally suggested here and from past conversations that Shimizu doesn't really have any secrets from Kidoguchi. He almost certainly knows she's a yuri fan, and that she ships girls constantly. We also know that they broke up -and- they're still good friends, which suggests comfort and honesty. He may or may not be explicitly aware that she's gay, but he probably has at least suspicions, and this is supposed to be a scene where she's bearing her soul to her most trusted friend. It changes the dynamic if the translator writes it as if she's in the closet with him.

All in all, I think it's a complicated question with no easy answer. I suspect it's immaterial anyway. He probably knew anyway and there's a good chance he recognizes that it's Maekawa. (Now, anyway)

last edited at Aug 20, 2019 6:10PM