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Sumin and Sungji Relationship:
- why did Team Gaji sit Seju on the bench in the second season after she played a role in pushing the couple together?
one of the simplest reasons is to show you that Sumin and Sungji relationship would be a bumpy ride even if Seju is out of the picture.
The love triangle existed because of Sumin.. not because of Seju's actions.
Let's go through it step by step:
- ch19: Nammi "you live an exhausting life, it's not like you're going to open up to her"
- ch23: step by step guide on how Sumin acts in her relationships
- ch28: even with Ms. Choi, whom Sumin really was serious with, Sumin didn't tell her anything. Ms. Choi " But I still feel I know almost nothing about you"
wait a second: in ch25, Sumin's birthday.. she still tell Sungji that she and Seju are just friends.. but at the same night, Sungji knew the truth directly from Seju herself! (ch55 flashback) http://imgur.com/a/OPaIb
lies and lies
ch36, Seju was not there.. Sumin was the one to think about her.. so in ch32, ch39.. and I argue ch52, and ch81. The one who brings Seju to the view is Sumin always, whether its Sumin*Sungji or Sumin* (X) girl.
let's get back to the set of lies Sumin has:
- ch53 (she lied about phoning Seju),
- ch55 (she lied to Sungji about what who she is about to meet),
- ch 75( the bathroom phone call)
Trust issues, Guilt, Ex's memories .. you name it.. is always present with Sumin
Anxiousness, doubts and insecurities are always there with Sungji
point to me one fluffy moment between Sumin and Sungji and I guarantee a Seju effect in the background playing along the above lines. Whether it is in how Sumin is trying to create a replica of a feeling/ memory she had, or protect them.. or how Sungji reacts given the mentioned points.
Now take a look at how Sungji and Sumin interact, Sumin cheated, Sungji expected her to beg and hold on to her.. Sumin didn't!
later on, in ch67: Sungji is crying and angry.. how Sumin could never understand her needs or fight harder for her! (I swear.. I don't make this up.. it's in the Manhwa)
As if Sumin is torn between her guilt, physical attraction to Sungji and her inability to make both of them happy while not letting go of Seju and what Seju means to her. Up till now, Sumin is in love with Seju. Ch50 was in October ( I can prove this).. however, we are now in November.. so let's spare each other the discussion of whether she is still in love or indifferent !
Question: did Sungji feel that Sumin was thinking about Seju and couldn't love her fully ?
the answer is YES! take a look: http://imgur.com/a/8sN55
Sungji knows it and feels it.
you wanna see the guilt, take a look at ch51
you wanna read clearly what Sungji feels:
ch51, Sumin: did you think I will leave after calling you?
Sungji: YES
ch55, Sungji: you were always ready to leave, but it wasn't like that for me.
☛ again remember how Sangmi the lawyer felt in ch23?!
what's next?
Sumin is still in a position that she can't take any step.. and God I don't want Seju to move at all. Next step is and should be Sungji's.. asking the right question will reveal a lot.. and would lead all of the three to find major realisations connecting all the dots together.
Deviation:
- what does Seju do? nothing!
ch45 is her POV,
Sumin will always be in a relationship with no future, and she will always come back.
ch50, gives you the reason
it actually says it in on our faces: it is not because Seju is better in bed compared to any of the girls.. but because Sumin is still in love with her. (notice the embrace.. in her mind she knows that Sungji is too good for the likes of her.. and she knows that Seju is different from a mere hot amazing sex partner like the redhead.. and she will be the one to hold her no matter what)
You read my mind before I posted it.
well, you are logical.. so I thought you would have a logical question XD
okay, one last cig.
last edited at Jun 23, 2017 6:54PM
mah, I have some ideas on top of my mind about SungjiXSumin.. but for some reason.. this requires more than two cigarettes XD
mpgpeg
mmhm, Sungji currently has a very valuable information about the ring (ch53) not only that.. but it will connect the dots related to ch27 and 84
☛ the way Sungji forgot the ring will open the gates of the bartender incident once more and further trust issues between Sumin and Seju.. we already have those issues now presented on the table from ch82 and ch84
Although some may be over-thinking, even you are aware of this, other arguments regarding how Team Gaji is telling the story as a whole are justified.
hehehe.. well, I don't even discuss every crazy idea I have just to keep as real as I can XD.
The "ring" has been a subject touched upon multiple times. It has a very special place in Sumin's heart throughout her life. Let's see if that comes to fruition.
mmmhm, interesting.. you and I aren't very much different indeed.
The ring represents promises that they keep.. the moment Sumin lost her ring, her relationship collapsed.. the moment Sungji lost her's, her relationship collapsed. But did you notice? in ch53 as Sumin knows that Sungji lost her's, she immediately takes the ring off and the chapter ends with both, the resignation letter and the ring on the table. what that panel represents, is up to the reader's interpretation. The area of the ring is beautifully explained by Foxy lady I hope she adds on this point more.
Yes, can you elaborate please?
previous discussion lead me to believe that Sumin and Seju were doomed to breakup back then even if the bartender incident did not happen.. it was a matter of time. No matter how much they love/d each other, they had structural issues within their relationship:
- Inferiority Complex (Sumin) ch56
- Insecurity (both, but more severe in Seju) ch56, 72, 26
- Trust (Sumin ⇾ Seju) ch10 (subtly, Seju seeing Sumin's parents take off)
➨ The bartender incident brought the worse of them all at once.. all the troubles they have.. it was like:
- Sumin: I expected you to cheat, no way I'm enough for you, I'm too ordinary.
- Seju: well, I expected you to hate me and leave me in the first place!
➨ The bartender wasn't the real reason for their break up, but the trigger of their issues.
these issues were there even before the bartender issue came up, their breaking up was inevitable.
the question now, why didn't they get back together in ch64? why is't a good decision from TG ?
because, they would've broken up AGAIN same issues, same weaknesses.
in ch57, Seju was finally able to identify what was wrong about Sumin.. but we still have two issues on the table: 1- Trust 2- insecurity
Guess what Team Gaji are doing through these chapters?
we have on the table now: the ring, the scarf and Seju's insecurity
- Trust ➔ Scarf, ring (ch82) and possibly the bartender incident (ch84)
- insecurity ➔ ch83
Bottom Line*
Seju and Sumin were bound to fail 10 years ago whether the bartender issue happened or not because of their preexisted issues. If they were to get back together, their relationship would be shaky again given the same reasons existed 10 years ago. By now, the story is telling us that the greater the love, the greater the responsibility and love alone can't guarantee the survival of the relationship.
MacySan
well, I agree. I went crazy enough to look for all the interviews that I could find about WDTFS.. even used Korean and Google Translation.. I even read something funny like how TG wanted to make a comedy story.. till now I couldn't find anything about which character came up first or last.
I found something however, about how the writer was inspired by one of the Female bosses she saw for Seju's role. But that's about it till now.
It's funny, I never considered myself in the so called "Team-Pink".. hold on, I'm not a hypocrite.. but I like to ride solo XD
MacySan
at least this statement:
Team Gaji themselves have said that the story was originally about Sumin and Sungji, and then they added Seju. Seju was born unplanned :P
is really underestimating. And that the whole story was planned before the serialisation.
When coming up with a very basic story and characters, way before even starting to serialize it, all of the characters are not the same . Stories and the details come up next.
yoonie0104
as we discussed earlier, I might not be able to prove it.. but it falls naturally to me that Seju is few months older than Sumin. Sumin is the one who fell in love first and took the initiative step.. but it was Seju who bought the rings.
why? mmhm.. it could be their earlier flashbacks.. Seju's way of taking care of Sumin and Sumin's admiration towards Seju.. how Seju calls and holds Sumin all gave me indications on who is older.. even the driving license, Seju got it first.
since I mentioned this with you, the Cotton Candy scene in ch36 showed us Sumin and Seju before they even confessed their feelings or even had their first kiss together. Their reactions and shyness show that.
last point, "protagonist vs antagonist" is a simplistic childish even way of thinking to say the least. ch79 and ch83 should explain why there is no antagonist in this story. The healing won't be giving someone another relationship added to their 31.. but to help all the three figure out what went wrong all these years.. including Sungji who has Dawoon somewhere within her all the time even if we can't see it clearly.. but Dawoon was there from ch1 to ch84.. Foxy lady already explained this part.. but it may require even more scenes to prove it once and for all for the less overthinkers XD.
right now I will give those hints:
1- First impression
2- Patting, who does it to Sungji? notice: Sungji is surprised when Sumin did it in ch37.
3- The Question, The answer
many many more.. but I got lazy once more :P
welcome mpgpeg, what a legendary first comment XD.
This manhwa has the potential to be one of the most well thought out and well developed love stories in its genre, if not the most. If it does not turn out that way, then we are giving the writer too much credit, unfortunately.
I was discussing earlier with Foxy lady how lezhin did WDTFS bad by narrowing its genre to yuri.. in fact this is a mature drama that happens to revolve around women, its depth, content and narrative method are all foreign to "yuri" .. "yuri" label attracts specific audience with specific expectations.
As for the ending, I don't know if every implicit point would be explained explicitly later.. but what I know right now.. that we have seen the ending many time already "implicitly"..
as how the Manhwa goes in loops into other loops.. I agree with what you said about fate.. I even discussed it earlier.. deep inside Sumin and Seju, they find each other fated (ch2, ch27 & ch45).. but if one wants to understand Sungji and Sumin relationship they need to take a look at Sangmi break up scene in ch23.
Let's hope Team Gaji does not succumb to the most popular couple to satisfy most of their readers. They can easily throw something together for the Sungji and Sumin ending to make more sense.
in course of 84 chapters, I never saw a writer who is so unapologetic about their story telling as Team Gaji (and well, George R.R Martin).. they won't give us what we want the way we want it.. but they always tell their own story instead. Rest assured, it won't be a regretful ending.
The backstory of a character is one I would assume a writer puts a lot of thought into. Seju and Sumin's backstory is so well-developed that it is difficult to picture them being separately conceived. Their lives are so intertwined at this point and they are not who they are now without the other.
again, their investment in the backstory means that the ending will be justified by the beginning.
I was discussing earlier with Foxy lady why was it a BAD idea for Sumin and Seju to get back together back in ch64.
understanding "why" will be the biggest justification for both: their breakup in ch27 and for the ending as well.
let me know if you are interested in longer explanation of this point.
yoonie, is obviously team blonding on me.. but here is some clues in case someone was curious:
Hmmm, I believe what TG meant is SuminxSungji was created first, then Seju was created later on but before the publication of the story xD. I mean, all three were created before the publication but SuminxSungji was out first, then Seju the last.
where is the resource?.. mmhm who brought Sungji to work under Sumin in the first place and for what reason.
(Seju bought the company, made Sumin a team leader in her young age even Ms. choi was surprised -and also her colleague Mr. Kim- not only that.. she selected Sungji carefully and interviewed her personally.
http://imgur.com/a/poUli
all this was given from the very beginning (ask yourself why did the writer do that.. what's the message) .. if a reader failed to see Seju's role, they missed what the story is about.. I suggest a reread.
You can even see the order with their birthdays xD, Seju is born the latest in the year xD. So I think it's safe to say that Seju is their last child xD, the youngest, lolllll.
well, ch15.5 description Sumin and Seju were 34, "Sumin reached 34 in ch25 to be specific" so now Seju reached 35. she is older.
trivia:
Seju's birthday = the writer's birthday
Sungji's birthday= 2 days difference from Gaji's " the artist"
Sumin's birthday origin (unknown)
But I also think that Seju's role was not as significant as she is right now at first or maybe she actually was created to be an evil third wheel but got changed later xD. I personally think at first, she was just a mere third wheel for the main couple who added more dramas for the couple(the cheating) but as the story progresses, her role is increasing the level of importance xDDDD, probably simply because she got too much love, lollll. The ending might not be changed but the events and how it led to those events might get changed so increasing Seju's significance in the story is not that hard XDDDD I believe in SuminxSungji ending after all, lol.
Seju's effect never disappeared from ch1 to ch84, even during the most intimate moments between Sumin and any of her Ex's.. there will be a love triangle regardless of whether Seju appeared or not.. examples:
- chapter 32, during a simple coffee order scene.. Sumin is spacing out,
- ch36 during their date in the amusement park..
- ch52 during the scene that Sumin was drying Sungji's hair (check that scene next to the flashback of ch2) http://imgur.com/a/Hupmg
- even currently in ch81 - I could swear that Sumin was having past memories at least twice given her facial expression.
It's a healing story.. to heal all the three characters, YES even Sungji. This is not pulse and not a falling in love from first sight story nor a simple clicè of a protagonist vs. antagonist
yoonie are you team blonding on me ? XD
Yes, I am. Is it working, loll?
hehehe I prepared a reply.. just because XD. you almost fooled me
hlama
It is possible. They said (sumin) getting caught was planned, but they didn't say she was planned to be caught with Seju... could have been with Ms. Choi.
hehehe.. the significance of getting caught isn't a mere sexual cheating. The story behind why Sumin cheated in the first place is truly significant and what led us to the third season. If Sumin cheated with a mere Ms. Choi for example.. then the effect would die out by ch68 on worst/ simplest estimation and understanding of the situation.
btw, they also said this: Seju's involvement was necessary :D
so, they didn't plan it at all with whatever girl.. but they wanted and planned it to be Seju in the first place (before the publication of course)
last edited at Jun 22, 2017 11:11PM
yoonie are you team blonding on me ? XD
Es0tric
I definitely remember reading something similar but the season 2 review feels kind of contradictory.
well, the way I witnessed how this thing go is like this: someone claims something as Team Gaji's saying and publishes it somewhere.. other forums copy.. then it becomes a reality (e.g the radio pod-cast)
I mean.. even when the real manhwa is with us.. some misunderstandings and biases occurs.. I can't imagine what could be done in a source that we don't have access too.
about the radio pod-cast: did anyone really believe that team Gaji would spoil the ending with a lame statement ?
MacySan
Team Gaji themselves have said that the story was originally about Sumin and Sungji, and then they added Seju. Seju was born unplanned :P
Can't find the source though, but it was from an early interview.
very impossible.. how come that Seju character was born unplanned when the "getting caught" scene of ch56 was planned waaaaay before the serialisation began. (official source).
season 2, review:
http://imgur.com/a/zLKPX
Ken
My palace is cool Sweetheart, You only feel hot when its "Rain". I hope you understand my signal as a joke.
my God hehehehehe XD
Seo
you are a genuis,thank you so so much :) ,it made sense
anytime.. I'm not a genius, just invested. Feel free to ask anything
K3n
Nora, please give me a site where to find the news about end of wdtfs
ah, I don't have such a thing.. all I know that MayScan provided a translation of the radio pod-cast by the writer. That translation said something about the Manhwa ending in June.. which turned out to be impossible.
(my heart is not a hotel but a palace, you all will fit inside)
well, whatever it is, I hope it has an Air conditioner! It's freaking hot in here :((
Hello, Seo
ch55 contains a flashback of a talk between Seju and Sungji that took place in ch27 (in ch25, it was Sumin's birthday, then we saw a flashback from ch26 to 27-> then we were back to the present time as Seju entered Sumin's house.. but back then we couldn't see what Seju told Sungji in ch27)
In short: ch25 resumes in ch27 last scene but you only see the talk in ch55 as a flashback
after the flashback in ch55, we are back in the present time.. so Sumin didn't change her cloths.. but the time frame is different.
let me know if I made sense XD
last edited at Jun 21, 2017 2:32PM
sia ue
good luck in everything you do :D.. and the manhwa won't end next chapter.. no worries :P
Thanks. Ken was cheating on me in Discord! No!
she is a player heheh.. calls everyone a sweetheart (I wonder if her heart is in fact a hotel)
there's no pov and imo TG should have paid more attention to Sungji's facial expression because there are times when she look robotic and emotionless to me.
they already did.. but how can I say this, easily missed or biased attention.
I won't go through this arc's or latest chapters facial expressions.. because no one would believe my overthinking (and well, I'm lazy).. however, go back to arc.2 review when Team Gaji CLEARLY said that Sungji was anxious and worried.. they also suggested that readers look at some scenes again to see her anxiousness. Facial expressions are well done and the dialogues are connected with both, how the character is designed and how it reacted in previous chapters. If one can't see the connection and similarities between ch84 and ch41, ch54.. then it's hard to infer anything from this chapter.
last edited at Jun 21, 2017 12:20PM
I checked ch12 to take a snapshot of when did Sumin used her depressed state to seduce Sungji.. but then I can't snap shot the whole chapter XDDD
hlama
Nooooooo, I can't bare to wait another extra hour for the next chapter. Just go with your gut feeling, and let biatches argue whatever the hell they want to argue. They should have purchased and reread the official translation anyway.
Bitches buy both Korean and English release (which is one release late to the Ko).. and they want to ensure that the context is intact. For a better experience and better understanding for all of us. Otherwise, we have this situation of "like vs love meaning in Japanese, Mandarin ..etc."
I've been here long enough to know that a single letter could drift an argument.
sia ue
Hi, I come back here as I remember that I quoted your comment but actually I meant to say I felt offended by Es0teric's comment, not yours.
Thanks a lot.. I understood it back then.
I hope you are doing okay and btw.. Ken asked me about you in Discord.
Second, one of the things you should know about Korean, they use "our" alot to represent "my". For example, a wife when mentioning her husband might use "our husband", it's meant to be "my husband".
"our" Sungji, "our" Seju, "our" Sumin. Sumin once called Sungji like that: "our" Sungji, this case, its meant "my Sungji", not "our", but its more endearing to Koreans.
ah that's what made me question it.. Sumin used "our Sungji" precisly in ch70
last edited at Jun 20, 2017 9:11PM