Y'know, this is actually a significant departure for Morinaga Milk. I mean, her characters have had anxieties, but only along the lines of "She's so awesome and I'm not (plus I'm a girl), so any hints I might be thinking I see of her maybe liking me must be wrong" kind of stuff. So self-deprecating, even a bit insecure, but nothing serious.

What we have here on the other hand, seems to be operating at an existential level--"Am I anything if she isn't looking at me? Is there a point to my existence?" This is not a kind of thinking Morinaga Milk characters have ever done before as far as I can remember. Living for the romantic partner, and maybe being supported by them to do . . . something, has always been more than sufficient for girls in Morinaga Milk stories. Often taking care of the partner has even been the basis of a character's career, going right back to Girl Friends--Mari became a nutritionist basically as an extension of cooking for her beloved Akko, and that was totally enough to make her happy and fulfilled. So yeah, this one is different.

I cosign this, pretty hard. Ignoring debates about the execution, I think it's nice to develop and investigate the normal internal issues that can happen within a relationship. Most stories are too "perfect" in the sense that any issues that do occur are external. Author's tend to be afraid to make their characters temporarily unlikeable or to have truly difficult aspects of their personality or mental space. The most internal issues we get are the "acceptable flaws" like "oh I'm not good enough," or "oh I'm too shy." Every other issues is external stuff like jealousy or a new character, work etc. I like that we get to follow her through these issues she's having and how she's hopefully work through them.

last edited at Sep 30, 2023 9:32AM

Ok no no no I need more and I'm so serious, I want to see how their relationship develops from idol and fan to actual intimate partners...
Would love if it could also delve more into that whole subject of what happens to idols once they're no longer in the spotlight, and how they carry on with their every day.

If you aren't already, you should read "Maitsuki, Niwatsuki, Ooyatsuki" then. That's basically this kind of premise but carried out more and still running.

I agree with you there, it feels like they were both somewhat conscious about walking the line of parasocial vs seeing the human behind the role. when the delivery girl says "i love the micchu that keeps secrets, but i want to know more about saotome-san" its absolutely intentional that she uses her idol vs real name. And i think it represents a step beyond the parasocial, and sets the stage for them meeting irl as equals. Even if the way they got there was kinda rocky.

Thanks for pointing those details out! I thought about doing so too but didn't want to get into it. Also parasocial is a type of relationship. It can be healthy or unhealthy. I don't think either of them exhibited unhealthy behaviour here, so just labeling it parasocial doesn't make it wrong. Really love them getting to know each other on a personal level after so much time. Agree on the sequel request!

last edited at Sep 30, 2023 6:21AM

So wonderful. Who doesn't like a hard worker? Really loved noticing how they were both dressing up for each other. The chapter didn't need to say that they were doing it, since you could tell Micchu was increasingly extravagant as time went by.

last edited at Sep 29, 2023 4:01PM

Lovely. So much care and tenderness in their body language. The more they try to create distance, the harder that distance snaps them back together like a tensed rubber band.

last edited at Sep 29, 2023 3:27PM

Soooo...people anyone want to bet that we will get a funny scene where the Red-head MC will use her new crystal ball and someone curiously asks what her future soul-mate will look like and our Red head MC will end up thinking about Future miss Demon lord= she appearing in the Crystal ball due to her thinking of her...Cue Embarrassed reaction from both??? Or I am just thinking non-sense 0_0

Hmmm...Well if that does happen it would be interesting for sure. This series is always a lot of fun and has an uncommon angle.

last edited at Sep 28, 2023 7:59AM

And on top of that, the comic has been very overt in showing us the pattern where the princess places zero value on her own life and doesn't even recognise why that's a problem. In this very chapter, she was in the process of bleeding out on a tree root before she could even get the sword. If we're going to venture into conjecture, the kingdom would be doomed if Natalia DID get the sword, too. ┐⁠(⁠´⁠ー⁠｀⁠)⁠┌

Yeah she definitely needs the sword and bad things may happen partly as a result of its absence. However, like you said a weapon is only as good as it's holder. Had Sara not been there, our princess would likely be dead already. The only way to save Sara--so that she could then save our princess--was for her to take the sword. Once the spirits messed up and invaded her body, she would either drink Natalia's blood and take the sword, or die after being rejected. That's one.

But two: our princess was already overworked, depressed (near suicidal), and reckless. She was not a good "holder," before knowing Sara. The previous chapter made it clear that we should be skeptical of this idea that children of the blood are invincible or super heros. Like Sara said, they are human and just as weak and nearly just as easy to kill. So even if she somehow survived without Sara's help (which mind you, she was collapsed from exhaustion, bleeding out on a tree and barely conscious) I don't know that the kingdoms future was secure anyway.

We just won't know that outcome since that route didn't happen. So it's hard to compare the two possibilities. So our Snake Princess might be right in that sense but killing Natalia's only emotional support, after Sara had already been reeling from the deaths of her family, would not necessarily send her down a good path. And if she spiraled again, how would she be a good host to that sword? And how would she save her kingdom, instead of just dying like she nearly did here and sending the kingdom to the same destruction? I guess we'll never know.

last edited at Sep 26, 2023 7:22AM

Now the snake bitch is even more in the wrong. (As expected.)

She's not wrong. Her point is totally true. As long as the sword is rooted into Sara, no one can use it, and without it, Natalia's kingdom is doomed. This is why she wanted to kill Sara.

Her methods are somewhat extreme I guess, but everything she said it's 300% true.

She's wrong because she assumed that Sara had stolen the sword and that she was a villainous liar who took an opportunity to sidle up to the princess.

That's besides the point though. It doesn't matter if Sara stole the sword of got unwillingly. The fact is Natalia's kingdom is doomed without it.

That was the point of the comment you responded to. "Intentionally," etc.

last edited at Sep 25, 2023 6:57PM

Now the snake bitch is even more in the wrong. (As expected.)

She's not wrong. Her point is totally true. As long as the sword is rooted into Sara, no one can use it, and without it, Natalia's kingdom is doomed. This is why she wanted to kill Sara.

Her methods are somewhat extreme I guess, but everything she said it's 300% true.

She's wrong because she assumed that Sara had stolen the sword and that she was a villainous liar who took an opportunity to sidle up to the princess. She questioned Sara and the princess's relationship, a princess who was extremely depressed (near suicidal) and barely able to stand without her. All of that was wrong and forcing the princess back into isolation or forcing her to witness yet another death of a loved one would not necessarily be beneficial to the kingdom either. She can have the sword but she's a person (as last chapter focused on) that has weaknesses both physical and mental. She can die and suffer from mental destruction just like any other. What kind of sword bearer would she be if Sara were murdered too?

last edited at Sep 25, 2023 5:44PM

I find it fascinating how this manga just gets real gross with it sometimes, like when the princess ate a bunch of ants and now bloody eyeball slurping.

Yeah it's amazing. Balances real well.

The Princess of Slyph feels like basically no other manga. The butterflies obsessed with blood from this chapter are perhaps the perfect representation of the manga as a whole.

Yes! Exactly. Feels like nothing else. Such a unique experience but also of a unique level of quality too.

last edited at Sep 25, 2023 11:49AM

Thinking about the characters realistically, it would be very difficult to make their sexualities clear when the people in question are likely not clear themselves about their sexualities. As external viewers we can tell these girls gay as hell, but they're insecure teenagers. Gay teens rarely actually get romance irl, they might get an awkward sexual experience that is hopefully not traumatizing and then only revisit the topic in college. Heteronormative society is a hell of an obstacle, especially for a child with no control over her own life in most ways.

Yeah, I fixed that. Sexualities isn't what I meant but I guess I changed it too late. Sorry for that mixup. I was talking more about the kind of story this will be. You can tip the audience off one way or the other in various ways and I feel this one has left itself ambiguous and that causes the slowly growing, worried reactions. This could all change very soon, though. It's still early in the story.

last edited at Sep 25, 2023 11:40AM

That's not necessarily what the rejection of the yuri label implies. There's a few different authors of lesbian stories who reject it for constraining what kinds of stories you can tell via genre tropes and audience expectations. Yuri is not all lesbian manga, it's a specific genre about F/F romance with expectations that people might not want attached to their story. There's a lot of josei manga about queer women like Ohana Holoholo that you probably couldn't get away with publishing in Yuri Hime without causing a riot lol.
I can imagine one particular expectation with "yuri" this author might have wanted to avoid is the one about how the story should be a romance that's constantly developing towards a climax of the girls confessing their love and becoming a standard romantic couple. There's been plenty of complaints in this thread about the "pacing" because they want development of the romance instead of development of their friendship. So if an author wants to tell a story about two girls developing an intimate emotional connection and friendship with the possibility of eventual romance, saying the story is "yuri" risks getting frustrated readers who care about the latter development over the former development.

This is great and is why I wanted someone to clarify if the author has actually stated that this is intended to be Yuri or not, or if this has been audience assumption. A "story about two girls developing an intimate emotional connection and friendship with maybe the possibility of eventual romance," seems like what this is and the focus on the music and personal anxieties seems like it's real passion. I just think you could make their intentions clear without taking away from the real focus of the story and that doing things like ending chapters in this recent way only teases the audience unnecessarily if you don't intend to follow through. For me, the story works whether they end up romantic or not but it might be good to clarify what kind of story it is earlier on. Right now it's still ambiguous. Thanks for that write up!

last edited at Sep 25, 2023 11:29AM

Worth noting that the Author has said she does not consider this a yuri. While that does not necessarily mean that the leads are not gay, it does imply that their gayness is not the main point of the story. If you're waiting for some sort of yuri "money-shot" you are likely to be dissapointed.

I did recall something of this sort which is why I asked again. Where did she say this?

At the same time, you don't need a "money-shot" to confirm their romantic interest. Right now it's their "gayness" itself that's potentially in question still. From their actions it seems clear but it's "seemed clear" times before only for a story to go in a different direction or to remain "open to interpretation" (feels icky using that phrase now).

You really only need one conclusive, confirming line and their confirmed gayness would still not need to be the main focus. As of now it's glances and maybe romantic blushes? And maybe this or that. It all "seems" like it's leading to a romantic development but it's been long enough that the confidence in that assumption is starting to wane slightly. We'll see after this chapter I guess.

The story implied by "I just found out my crush is actually a girl, oh shit" was very compelling and it feels like it was replaced by a story about two girls who just really like music bonding.

I can agree with that. Whether that's for better or worse will depend on the reader. I like it! Their story is really interesting regardless and I don't need it to directly focus on a relationship--this journey through music and dealing with their anxieties together is more interesting.

last edited at Sep 25, 2023 7:40AM

I find it fascinating how this manga just gets real gross with it sometimes, like when the princess ate a bunch of ants and now bloody eyeball slurping.

Yeah it's amazing. Balances real well.

It's so weird, I can handle a series that never runs for the finish line, but I can't stand narrative edging. If the future strips continue with this, great, if they pivot to "I love her as a fan! She's my Oshi!" or "Man, she loves Rock & Roll so much!" I'm gonna riot.

It would definitely start to feel a bit suspect but I wouldn't be too mad about it yet. The thought has crossed my mind though, especially after this chapter. This instance could be a fake out but if they eventually make their romantic feelings clear than it's a non issue. But it would be weird to do all this teasing and then end it with them as just "straight" friends. Does the series specifically market itself as Yuri? I haven't ever checked actually.

Ah, the good ol' Higashiyama Shou's Stretch route huh?
Surely they wouldn't....right?....right?!

I don't want to discuss Stretch too much but that felt far less romantically coded than this does. So for Stretch there wasn't that much surprise and its story had its own points it was making. This property however has been more obviously teasing. For example, you cant end a chapter like this recent one and not know what you're doing. I think it'll all be fine anyway. Love the series.

last edited at Sep 24, 2023 4:55PM

Okay. Okay. Look. I've been fine with the subtle, low key subtext approach this series has been taking. If they never took things in an explicitly romantic direction, I would've been disappointed, but I'm used to those kinds of stories and it's pretty obvious that you can read between the lines and see the nature of it. I've been reading ambiguously gay fiction for decades, I'm used to that.

But this better not be a fakeout, or I'm gonna be so mad.

It's so weird, I can handle a series that never runs for the finish line, but I can't stand narrative edging. If the future strips continue with this, great, if they pivot to "I love her as a fan! She's my Oshi!" or "Man, she loves Rock & Roll so much!" I'm gonna riot.

It would definitely start to feel a bit suspect but I wouldn't be too mad about it yet. The thought has crossed my mind though, especially after this chapter. This instance could be a fake out but if they eventually make their romantic feelings clear than it's a non issue. But it would be weird to do all this teasing and then end it with them as just "straight" friends. Does the series specifically market itself as Yuri? I haven't ever checked actually.

last edited at Sep 24, 2023 4:24PM

Yeah, she serenaded her! A little bumpy along the way but she's got the spirit and we've got love! Though her meaning still could be a bit ambiguous. Not sure what "love" she's talking about there. Guess we'll know for sure next chapter ish.

last edited at Sep 24, 2023 8:15AM

PsychKit posted:

I know people hate the love rival trope, but this is kinda cute

Somehow it works, can't say why exactly because I also don't like when a third person comes out of nowhere when the main couple gets a bit closer but I like this new girl.

Probably because she isn't the one who initiated. She didn't intend to "get in the way." It was our MC who blushed and decided to baby her, thus causing the crush. She also shyly left without a fuss and is sympathetic. Then it's a comedy manga to boot. They'll be a fun trio!

last edited at Sep 23, 2023 9:13PM

Just two things
* Both scummy and Mashiro very much do care about who they are with
* The most scummy ending would be her robbing him of his inheritance

Yes, saying that they'd be happy with an ending like that reveals a misunderstanding of their characters. Also, the "scummy" part of our MC is greatly exaggerated. She's mostly just naive, shortsighted and impulsive. She's not really been that bad and almost always means well in her head.

last edited at Sep 23, 2023 7:44AM

I'll wait with praising Kamiya for progressing the plot until this actually fucking happens, so far the author managed to avoid any actual progression every time, and one smirk from Yuzu won't change a thing, we already had a couple of those :P So far this is just kinda lame and boring and they still avoid Yuzu actually saying anything of substance.

Agree 1000%. Same exact thoughts. If it keeps going I might actually root for Kamiya (doomed as that is) since she is nice, shows clear interest and is doing nothing wrong. Why hate her? If anything I'd be more upset at Yuzu. Our MC should honestly contrast Kamiya with what she's been dealing with from the Yuzu stone wall all this time. Plus Kamiya's advice was actually solid.

The only reason to assume Yuzu is (and will) show romantic interest is because we know this type of manga. Yuzu on the other hand has shown little to nothing, 15 chapters in. The most we get is a stare that, once again, only "means anything" because we expect it to based on the genre.

last edited at Sep 22, 2023 7:19AM

Looks like there's a mixup. 14 mixed with 15. This isn't chapter 15. Only the last two or so pages are from 15.

last edited at Sep 21, 2023 8:29PM

But Fuyu was trying to come at her from the side by pretending it wasn't about them, so when Mika zeroes directly in on this is about you, isn't it? Fuyu panics and retreats, so she tries to play it off like it's just part of the fiction. "I just wondered what would happen next after that kind of a development..." Fuyu is trying to go "It's no big deal, I was just wondering..." but to Mika it feels like Fuyu is doing the same thing that her friends did, and she's been dwelling on that, thinking about why it bothers her, and it comes down to "Yuri is something that happens in a story." And the unspoken part, the part she's probably just as afraid to say as Fuyu, is "...and my feelings are real, so please don't treat them like they're fiction." But without that unspoken bit, to Fuyu it sounds like "Girls don't love each other in real life."

Great breakdown. Same feeling from me.

There's also another minor thing that got lost in translation. In the Japanese, the word "development" was actually emphasized (like italics in English). And the word choice is one that usually refers to developments in stories, like plot twists (展開). That was the one that triggered her defensive reaction. So your interpretation is not incorrect, more like blatantly obvious in the original.

That's very helpful. Thanks for that!

To note: the relationship between Hato and Ruri isn't romantic in nature. Asako says as much at the end: don't help her because she's a celebrity or because she's a (romantic) partner, but because she's a "neighbor", ie someone who lives next to you. Echoing her former situation with Miyako. She's not quite a stranger, not quite a friend, but someone you know well enough to try to help them.

Asako is giving Hato a reason to help Ruri, which she didn't really have before.

Told you so.

Below is what we said about it:

Doesn't seem like an indication of whether Hato and Ruri's relationship is (or will be) romantic or not. Asako is basically saying, "you may not know how to help her through all of her problems but you still have the ability to help her in your own unique way because you know her in your own unique way." I mean Miyako and Asako's "neighborly relationship," certainly became romantic--it doesn't mean Ruri and Hato will too but I don't think this convo implies one way or the other.

Didn't say it had to be romantic but that she would learn how to find and deepen her unique presence in Ruri's life. She did that. Anyway this chapter doesn't indicate what their potential endings will be. So it's premature, either way.

Love this series though!

last edited at Sep 21, 2023 4:16PM

She figured out how to make a space for Ruri to "come home" to. Very important that she understands her value to Ruri and what she can do for her that others cannot. Ruri can handle her own stress and Hato can be part of that, no matter what form their relationship takes. Very cosy vibe to this chapter (and the series in general).

last edited at Sep 21, 2023 8:43AM

I understood her reasoning. Felt bad for her actually, now knowing the full context. There's definitely people who would bristle at their real life relationship or feelings being "reduced" to just "Yuri." Seems she felt it was derogatory, maybe even objectifying--and our MC was certainly doing a lot of that earlier on to the girls at the school, treating them like a show. Mika was already sensitive when she was asked the question, got upset and was dismissive about that usage. She wasn't clear enough since it was an off hand comment that she likely didn't expect to cause a major misunderstanding. Neither of them were in a position to be fully open about their gay feelings, so it kind of got left hanging. Clearly she liked our MC but unfortunately for her, that ship has sailed.

Me thinks Fuyu's objectification of Yuri started after Mika told her that "Yuri only exists in stories". Fuyu gave off more of a baby gay vibes who just recently discovered that it's possible for girls to like girls in her flashbacks

I don't think you're disagreeing but for clarity, I'll mention that I'm talking about what she has been doing to the girls at her new school, not around flashback. Her type behavior at this new school is an example of the kind of behaviour that made Mika bristle at the term "Yuri" back then. Can't say for sure when it started. Tough scenes all around, either way.

last edited at Sep 20, 2023 11:54PM

Yeah, seeing her checking out rings with a guy after you know she's on marriage interviews...that can't feel nice. It was always going to blow up in MC's face though. She's using this guy's money when he said that was a condition for accepting their marriage and she's broken the promise she made. She'll have the money but I suspect she'll be declined when she asks to meet up, or "Maron" will really come back. And I expect the guy hasn't finished fulfilling his role yet.

This manga though has been pretty quick to clear up misunderstandings so I'm not too worried, mostly looking forward to seeing how much Makino suffers lol.

Yeah she's got to eat this one lol. I'd be more worried that Mashiro could spiral again because of this.

last edited at Sep 20, 2023 11:57PM