Forum › Posts by Heavensrun
Whenever I see a series like this where the author is like "No, see, they're just friends!" it makes me wonder...Like, did she have a friendship like this, and not realize that they were totally crushing on each other?
https://imgur.com/a/42gPXkr Ch 41 Raws.
They are so fucking cute!
I thought I was going to lose interest once Touko and Yuu were together, but thankfully I was wrong.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
They are super cute together. Sayaka bullying Yuu briefly as a small revenge before conceding is also kind of adorable. Koyomi demonstrates once again that she is the most observant person in the series.
Woah, hey, a plotline may have been dropped, but it is -not- subtext.
Maybe subtext was the wrong word. Indirect is more like it. Sure, they can talk about what they mean to each other and be cute together, but they can't really show it as explicitly anymore.
But....They -just- had their second kiss. They were explicitly flirting. They're a couple. Tan Jiu hasn't shied from -any- of that.
The censorship just has to do with her work not being -published-, keeping her from making money off of it. She's still making it as an explicitly romantic relationship.
Fuck China.
I know how you meant this, and the person that got pissed over it was explicitly wrong, plus you clarified, but it might be better to go with "Fuck the Chinese Government" from the get-go in the future. ;p
I think Tan Jiu has the talent for large narratives but seems unfocused and impatient. She jumps around and backs up to fill out backstory like someone who has a good eye for how to structure a narrative, but lacks the patience to finish out plans and execute them.
No offense, but that sounds like my point.
Someone who could do A but finds themselves distracted into focusing on B would seem to be strong in B rather than in A.
I intended it to expand on your point. You said she was better at character scenes than managing a large narrative, I was pointing out that I think the skill and instinct for a narrative is there, but lacking the focus to piece things together in order.
Edit: There’s also the Other Gay Guy, the not big one.
Upperclassman is the only gay guy, though. I'm assuming you mean Sun Jing's and Mophead's friend, who Upperclassman likes, but nothing Tan Jiu has shown us so far indicates that he reciprocates UC's feelings. In fact, most of his reactions so far are of crippling discomfort and panic.
In other words, if he's gay, he's at least closeted, in denial, and maybe even self-hating. Is it possible that the story is about him becoming comfortable with himself and dating UC? Maybe, but there's no real indications of it.
Or is that the wrong person, and I'm forgetting someone else?
The theory that matches the fact pattern is that she ditched the sad storyline because life was depressing, not that she's censored the story itself. Unless you have another source of info that I haven't seen.
It’s worth remembering, though, that SJ & QT were far from the only thread the “narrative” version of the story had going. Off the top of my head there was:
- Mophead and That One Girl
- The Guy Who Was Gay
- The Basketball Rivalry
- The Angst of the Really Big Guy
To say nothing of Mopey Mo and Tattletale, who barely survived the Narrative Implosion.
I mean, the Basketball rivalry was dealt with in the short term, the big guy -is- the gay guy, and he's an upperclassman and wouldn't be involved in the class trip, and I think the girl is an underclassman, so she probably wouldn't be around for it either. And that also was at a point where nothing specific was happening.
Mo was straight up derailed. The others could just be on the backburner while the A story goes.
Others have disagreed (vehemently) with me on this, which is fine, but I really think Tanjiu's strength is creating strong individual scenes rather than working a large-scale narrative, and the previous cast was rather extended, with a lot of characters to service (and--the part where I get pushback--I didn't care much about those other characters except for Mophead anyway).
So I'd prefer more of a focused story if I could get it, but this does play to what I see as the author's strengths.
(Autocorrect wants "Hophead" rather than "Mophead," which is definitely not OK.)
I think Tan Jiu has the talent for large narratives but seems unfocused and impatient. She jumps around and backs up to fill out backstory like someone who has a good eye for how to structure a narrative, but lacks the patience to finish out plans and execute them.
I wanna say this is worth reading even if it regressed into subtext, for how cute it is, but I despise the idea that she was forced to dial it back because of government interference. May it consume me as much as it will, it changes nothing.
Hopefully Tanjiu can give her vision form in a careful manner.
Woah, hey, a plotline may have been dropped, but it is -not- subtext. They've been repeatedly shown that they end up living together, and the most recent storyline made reference to them dating, had QT hop in SJ's lap, involved them sharing their second kiss, and had Sun Jing explicitly refer to herself as Qiu Tong's girlfriend.
Even this latest strip, while not explicitly romantic, speaks to the importance SJ holds to QT.
Their relationship is text, and there's no sign that Tan Jiu has backed off on that.
The theory that matches the fact pattern is that she ditched the sad storyline because life was depressing, not that she's censored the story itself. Unless you have another source of info that I haven't seen.
Look at the feet of the dark haired girl.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/fuwafuwa_futashika_yume_mitai_ch07
Nobody's gonna comment on Ootsuki's hooves? ;p
How do I delete somebody else's post?
I SAW IT AND NOW YOU HAVE TO AS WELL.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/fuwafuwa_futashika_yume_mitai_ch07
Nobody's gonna comment on Ootsuki's hooves? ;p
What ever happened to the plot line of after their kiss after the birthday party?
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/their_story_10122017_update#2
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/their_story_22122017_update
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/their_story_ch168
Seems like we were gonna see what happens when they met up again, but Sun Jing didn't show up, and then...? Did I miss anything?
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/their_story_26012018_update
This is the next time they met up after that. (Notice QT still has SJ's jacket at that point) So it turned out to be a non-event between them. What really got dropped is Sun Jing's interaction/shooting down of Mo Xiaonan. After that we got this:
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/their_story_ch158
where SJ is teasing QT about the kiss and what it means for them, but we didn't really get back to a clear narrative of any sort until the amusement park date. We did get to see here
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/their_story_ch168
that Mo is unhappy, so either she's upset that SJ shot her down, or SJ ditched her to go catch up with QT. Either way, it doesn't seem like we're going to get that bit filled in anytime soon.
Like Blastarr said, the going theory is that the crackdown on LGBT media and the ensuing fallout affected the artist for awhile, but that is pretty much just speculation, we don't really know why she ditched the plotline.
Ah, there it is.
I literally came her to post this exact message.
I feel a remarkable sense of deja vu. Except I was sorry for Nyangomaru. As long as we are all sorry...
I can also feel another deja vu coming with the response.No, there won't coming a response, because it is meaningless.
So, let's end this. You're all too stupid to accept opinions from other people, and you're offended and insulting them, so, good job!
So I need to explain something to you.
Thinking someone is wrong about something? Not an insult. Saying they're wrong? Not an insult. Saying they aren't listening to your arguments when they visibly aren't? Also not an insult. Saying you have failed to understand things you have visibly exhibited a lack of understanding of? Also. Not. An. Insult.
Calling someone stupid? Explicitly an insult.
So, y'know. Bite me.
You're even say there's certain way to do a cheek kiss, it's just stupid. #facepalm
What I said, and what you are too dishonest or deluded to acknowledge, is that there is a way that cheek kisses are commonly done, that is part of their nature as a platonic gesture. Aaaaand I entered into evidence exhibit A: Every goddamned picture of a cheek kiss ever. But I also said hey, ignore that, and proceeded to demolish your attempt to rationalize away the kiss as aromantic -anyway-, but I doubt you even read my entire post, because you didn't address any of my points in any serious way.
last edited at May 7, 2019 5:02PM
I know I'm kinda retreading territory you already covered, but while you made a strong argument for why it's -not- a cheek kiss, I really wanted to cover that even if it was, it's still definitely romantic.
No no, it's fine, I actually prefer your point. I just can't see that reaching someone who is with their head in the sand... below a layer of concrete.
PS: I read that as "Faraday Cat". That's equally parts disturbing and hilarious.
http://doktorjohn.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/electric-cat.jpg
Maybe because she still really has not experienced those very strong feelings that she dreamed of? Because at first she was falling in love, then restrained, and then Touko took herself away from her altogether. She always had a stripped-down version of love, she just had not yet had a chance to experience that same love, full of reciprocity and the possibility of expressing her own feelings. She's wanted to love and show her love, but she didn’t have the opportunity for it. But now it has. And it seems to me that soon she will really experience what she has dreamed of.
Yuu explicitly explains this right after she makes that comment. She always wanted to be swept off her feet, but that's not what happened. Touko got that. Touko fell hard and fast. Yuu had to take flight the long way, by building a relationship of respect, affection, and ultimately love by deciding that person was important to her. They're both in the same place, but Touko got there the easy way, Yuu had to work for it.
Hence, unfair.
I wouldn't say Yuu was really disappointed, though. I'd refer to it more as mild annoyance.
I feel a remarkable sense of deja vu. Except I was sorry for Nyangomaru. As long as we are all sorry...
I can also feel another deja vu coming with the response.
I know I'm kinda retreading territory you already covered, but while you made a strong argument for why it's -not- a cheek kiss, I really wanted to cover that even if it was, it's still definitely romantic.
And no, there does not have to be a sexual act, but I just do not feel like Kasumi is in love with Sakurako!
This is an example of poor reading comprehension.
But I understand now, your opinions are facts for you, just like the kiss on the CHEEK.
Let's be charitable and say that that picture shows the moment of contact, meaning you're right, it is a kiss on the cheek.
When you kiss someone on the cheek, how do you do it? Do you nestle your nose into their eyesocket and kiss next to their nostril? Or do you go around the side of the face and kiss the outer part of the cheek? If you do the former, you're profoundly weird.
Notice anything? Cheek kisses are all on the side of the face.
In manga, this usually means either the kissee's head is turned away or the kisser's lips are drawn on the far side of the curve of the face.
So, hey, maybe Yukiko-sensei just didn't draw it very well and made an accidentally ambiguous cheek kiss. Of course, then it's just as plausible that it's an ambiguous lip kiss, and it's far from the only time they'd have locked lips, but let's grant you that it's a cheek kiss.
It's still a romantic cheek kiss. Leaving aside that if you kiss someone like that, you're basically kissing the corner of their mouth, It comes at the tail end of a conversation about what Sakurako means to her. She can't really put it into words, but thinking about it on the way home, she mentions the way she calls out to her.
I have had some exceptionally close friendships in my life. I've been blessed with that. If you ask me why I care about my friends, I might mention their loyalty, their care, their patience, their humor....
But "The way I feel when they say my name" would not be on any of those lists. That is an explicitly (and exclusively) romantic sentiment. Then she kisses her (maybe) on the cheek and says "I'm home", like a spouse returning from work. (Because that's basically what she is.) I think that was a lip kiss, but even if it's not? That is some super gay homo romantic lesbian waff lovin'. If you think that's platonic, I feel sorry for anyone that ever falls for you, because you are more impervious to signals than a faraday cage.
Why do you have to make everything gay?
Isn't that why we're on Dynasty Reader?
Touche'.
Oiiiii @Heavensrun, want some booze?? Drinking is the only way out of this headache!
Urgh... I'll be honest... I'd rather debate flat-earthers at this point. At least they are funny.
<-----Physics professor
(sobs)
And, so, we carry the original Japanese version of that scene as the torch of victory (despite some (maybe even most) of us, myself included, being unable to read Japanese).
I’m not even sure that “victory” is the right rubric here as much as just dispositive evidence to put the matter to rest—if not this, then what? (Short of that hypothetical fisting scene I alluded to, of course).
But then, I answered that question previously—nothing. (After Chapter 53, I can only assume we’d get the “platonic fisting” argument should it ever be required.)
Hey, friends can engage in sexual activity! Haven't you heard of sex friends? Just because a woman goes wrist-deep in another girl's vagina doesn't mean it's romantic or sexual in any way. Why do you have to make everything gay?
(Beat head on wall)
the last part, 愛してる (ai shiteru) cannot, it's only used romantically (with some very, very rare exceptions, which this isn't).
This is a common misconception that gets spread around. In a context where 好き is ambiguous, then 愛してる isn't any more specifically romantic.
(Stare)
(looks at every source he has)
BULLLLLLLSHIT.
Aishiteru is not -exclusively- romantic, but it is WAAAY more explicitly romantic than suki. The only expression that would be less ambiguous would be koishiteru, and almost nobody ever uses that.
I am honestly flabbergasted by this whole conversation. I thought we HAD to be past this.
They kiss. They live together. They plan to live together indefinitely, probably forever. They get jealous of each other. They cuddle, they sleep together, they say "I love you" in explicitly romantic ways.
They're A COUPLE, YOU DENSE MOTHERF-(is tackled)
[...] and I don't think Rei was joking, at least not entirely.
Well, her reactions when Touko finally visits show that she did not really expect it to be true, but seeing how the two behave does remind her of her own words and make her suspicious. Even more so in the extra chapter where Touko's reactions pretty much confirm things for Rei, enough that she actually proceeds to send Touko a photo of Yuu sleeping. Would not put it past her to have been stealthily probing Yuu even with that initial comment, though, she's clearly well aware that this is a possibility as well.
I don't think she was joking at all, honestly, I mean, look at the context of the scene. She comes in on her mom talking about how nice someone is and how Yuu is lucky to have them around. She naturally jumps to "Oh, Sis has a boyfriend?" Then they say they're talking about a girl, and she goes to "girlfriend?" naturally, because she hasn't let go of the initial assumption: It sounds like they're talking about a romantic relationship.
I think it's more of an offhand comment than a joke. The way I read it, she's catching up on a conversation in progress, that's all. Once she's told that it isn't a romantic relationship, she lets go of the idea, but then comes the planetarium device, and then she meets Touko, and Touko is very keen on knowing how to make Yuu's favorite foods, and at that point she knows what's up.
But one thing that has always jumped out at me in that scene is Yuu's reaction to her dad's comment. In the first translation I saw, he said something about putting his foot down, which sounds more opposed, in this it's more just like "Man, I wouldn't know what to do". I'm not sure which is more accurate to the original, but either way, I know that feeling. That little silent awkward lonely moment after somebody you love and respect unknowingly says something negative about the identity that you're discovering for yourself. Rei may have identified Mom as the problem, but I bet that Yuu is more apprehensive about what her dad will do or say about it.
I don't think we can actually speculate much on how the parents will react. I mean, nobody visibly freaked out about the gay themes in the play, but Yuu's dad was uncomfortable at the idea of Yuu having a girlfriend. But the thing about bigotry is that it's really kind of hard to predict where it will come out. It's divorced from reason and is sometimes viceral, and some otherwise very nice people can turn suddenly ugly when they find out somebody is gay. So I'm not placing bets, but I imagine Rei is going to have to do SOMETHING for them at some point.
If you read the side-chapter where Rei and Yuu go shopping again, Rei explicitly thinks that their father is a pushover who always goes along with what the others want in the end. Therefore we can easily predict the same happening here. Not everything is about bigotry...
In the same chapter Rei said that their mother would be the biggest obstacle.
Keep in mind that by this point Rei has basically figured out that Touko is the one Yuu is interested in, so these thoughts are already in context of a homosexual relationship.
Touko's parents couldn't stop her from hurting herself, so they can't stop her from dating a girl, but they appear to just want her to become herself again, so that's why I don't think they will mind the method much.
Yes, I know that, but my point is people will surprise you. People that are staunchly opposed to same-sex relationships can turn around surprisingly quickly once it's -their kid-, while at the same time, people that you expect might be tolerant can have visceral reactions to homosexuality within their family.
So it's somewhat of a question. Is Rei right? was that foreshadowing on Nakatani's part, or is she establishing expectations so that we can share the character's surprise when they turn out wrong? Honestly, I don't see any real reason to assume Rei is wrong, so that's kind of fair enough, but when it comes to Touko's parents, I think they're much more of a question mark. Her dad could view being gay as just another way that she's acting out. He could blame it on the play. He could embrace it and be super cool about it. My point is that we don't know, because we've seen and learned less about Touko's family compared to Yuu's.
last edited at May 3, 2019 12:19PM
Yeah, pretty obvious that the girl she's having sex with in the intro isn't Saeko.
At this point in the story, she's still hesitant about sex.
In the intro, she's doing it like a rabbit.
So, we already know that their relationship is going to fail.
So as pointed out, the girl in the intro sure -talks- like Saeko, and acts like her, and while we don't see her face clearly, the hair length and style could easily be Saeko.
The fact that they're sexually active in the intro doesn't tell us anything. Even if the one-shot is predictive, we still know from the one-shot that Saeko and Miwa are sexually active and that Miwa really enjoys it.
(the rest of this is not directed at you specifically)
Honestly, I wish people would just shut up about how it ends. If a possible breakup ending is a dealbreaker, that's fine. Go away, comeback if you hear that it ended happily for the girls. If it's not, then chill out and stop fussing about it.
The fact is we don't know how it ends. We don't know if the author just wanted to expand on the characters while keeping the same result, or if they wanted to revisit them and see them as working out. We don't know if they're gonna break up the same way, or differently. We don't even know if the girls in the one-shot stay broken up. Exes get together all the time. They grow and become more compatible. Sometimes they grow apart.
There are innumerable good, well-told stories that could come out of this, so just...let the story be told, okay?
I think Touko's parents may already know, but not about Yuu of course. We didn't get to see it, but at the end of the play Touko's mother mentions to Touko's father about having a "family talk". And the play itself wasn't exactly subtle. Of course Koyomi wrote the script, but the script was uncanny with how accurate it was to Touko's character, and Touko's parents seemed to take the play as Touko's own words, prompting the need for a talk later. I'd be surprised if the topic wasn't brought up.
I also agree that Yuu's mother will likely take the news hard, she may even reject Yuu and Touko at first. That said, if the story actually addresses familial/societal responses to homosexuality, in a well conducted way and to such an extent, I'll be surprised. With the other characters needing a conclusion, especially Sayaka, and there being one final volume, I wonder if there will be room?
I don't think we can actually speculate much on how the parents will react. I mean, nobody visibly freaked out about the gay themes in the play, but Yuu's dad was uncomfortable at the idea of Yuu having a girlfriend. But the thing about bigotry is that it's really kind of hard to predict where it will come out. It's divorced from reason and is sometimes viceral, and some otherwise very nice people can turn suddenly ugly when they find out somebody is gay. So I'm not placing bets, but I imagine Rei is going to have to do SOMETHING for them at some point.
As for Sayaka, I don't expect a happy ending in these pages, I expect the hint of a chance for a happy ending, possibly setting something up for further spinoff novels.