Personally I've literally never seen anyone using the word top/bottom in a yuri work in the rigid way. Most people know the nature of the yuri dynamic is more versatile and use them accordingly, or in a humorous way like "wow surprised Ookuma toped Kanda! She was such a bottom"
The only times where it becomes more absolute is in yaoi, where the nature of the act does indeed require more rigid roles to begin with.

Labels are not evil. Top and bottom is a very common descriptive word for gay couples and most have no problem using them. Unless someone specifically asks you to, then why make an issue about it? Especially with fictional characters like here.

In yuri, top/bottom can be more blurred, so their use is more general. Like when someone gets called a top, that's used to describe their typical or most common behavior, it doesn't mean they have to be a top literally all the time.

I cringe at the fact she sleeps with Aya who's a student. Maybe it's part of the internal logic of the manga that Haruki didn't call the cops on Sei. But in real life, Sei would lose her license asap, be sent to jail, while Aya would be in years of therapy or counselling.

True. I don't get why some people were surprised and disappointed at her sleeping with Yoru. Like hello, she's being toxic and a predator since the beginning.

There is zero chemistry between them

Even if you don't 'ship' them or feel like there shouldn't be any mutual romantic interest between the two, this comment is ridiculous.

In the brief times they've been together on the page, we've seen plenty of chemistry. Perhaps not in terms of an unfolding love story, but certainly as two people that are diametrically opposed but are chasing the same goal. That's especially true in recent chapters.

How someone perceives chemistry without the author's deliberate attempt to make it seem so is not objective, therefore calling that notion ridiculous is bizarre itself.
Two opposite people arguing with each other without any sign of mutual lingering feelings is just two people who can't get along (despite having a common goal), but of course you can add your own bias or preferences and take it a step further and feel differently about the situation.
Unless the author makes more effort to show Harumin having some type of feelings for Matsuri too, it is perfectly normal to view them as Matsuri being annoying to Harumin and nothing more.

Years ago, I thought Saburuta would have developed them more by now, but instead she just keeps drawing Harumin annoyed by Matsuri and adds new yuri pairings instead. That makes me think she is not a big fan of HaruMatsu herself either, because she has found so much place for other side characters who weren't even needed for the story but still not them.

I don't get why ppl like the haru x matsu so much, they don't have any chemistry at all, there's times where it seems like Harumin legit can't stand matsuri, and maybe i'm wrong but i don't think Harumin is supossed to be a tsundere character

I mean yeah yuzu and mei are pretty much like that, but at least saburo uta makes sure to remind us every so often that despite all the evidence they love each other and are in fact dating

Exactly. There is zero chemistry between them, and the only reason I can think of is because Matsuri and Harumin are the second most important characters after Yuzu and Mei
(yes, not storywise important, but secondary character ranked ) and people want to yuri ship them with someone.

Also Matsuri used to tease Harumin a bit in the early chapters, so it kinda stuck.

I dont say that you are a pervert automaticaly when your aunt are one, but you have more chance to have genetic tendency of dopamine/serotonin deficit.

Wait, is that actually scientifically proven? I've seen this chart regarding the brain chemicals and the level of each one for different feelings. But are there any researches like that regarding sex related divergences?

last edited at Aug 21, 2020 3:35PM

From my point of view, Sei's character is kind of mixed between a nympho and a yandere. Maybe because of her past, maybe she born with that "gene" originaly. Sei's duality created of a libido possessive beast and a whiny dependant magnet puts her in constant conflict we all know. Some people need medical help constanly for that. Her fetish of foot licking make me think that Yoru is like a idol in Sei's eye. At the same time she want to sanctify Yoru (the cooler one), yet she also want to devour and consuming Yoru (her ideal sex partner).

Interesting, genes also do play a part in someone's character development, and not just the environment they grew up in. For example with psychopaths, it is because of genes.
I haven't read much about how kinks get developed, but from what I've seen environment here does play a part. Although different people turn out differently if they are put in exactly the same situations, and that's because of their DNA. Like for example, being an introvert is in the genes.
Sei probably already had the leaning for perversion to begin with, but I also think there's gotta be something wrong with her family too.

that dirty feet licking...ew

But also the manga needs to explore Sei's family background at some point. She is messed up and Yoru can't be the root of her issues. If it wasn't Yoru, she'd eventually find someone else who wouldn't like her back, to get unhealthily attached (not that this excuses Yoru playing with her).

Her obsession with Yoru feels like a form of self punishment. When they were doing it she didn't seem to actually enjoy it, and she then said she wants to die. Someone could say that this was because she knew Yoru would never like her back, but with unhealthy obsessions like here it's never just that. Although I'm not sure whether the author wants to explore the story from this perspective.
It feels like a harmful addiction that you don't like, but it's the only way you know to cope (like cutting)

This feels more incomplete now compared to the first one shot. It's either going to get another one shot, or author needs to serialize it.

I was fully expecting her to say "Honey san is my best friend" in the end instead but surprise lol. Wonder if we'll get any kiss or fanservice now, but I feel like this will remain on the Citrus level of intimacy showing.

Good chapter either way, I like both leads.

Ummm what the hell is that with Kurokawa? Is she going to end up crazy like Izumi?
As for the guy, I wouldn't worry about him, he's probably going to be a plot device for Fujishiro to realize her feelings for Kurokawa or something.
I just don't want to see Kurokawa's character getting botched too

last edited at Aug 16, 2020 12:09PM

I mean, I don't dislike monster girls like demon, mermaids etc but this one in particular gives me a feeling similar to trypophobia

I don't think you need a lot of labels to describe a sexuality. The four most used are accurate enough imo. If you are only attracted to feminine guys (as a guy), that's still bisexual because they're still guys. If you are only attracted to feminine guys as a female, that's still straight.
I mean, if someone is straight but is only attracted to a specific body type, do they need a new label for that? Like thick bodies, would that be thicksexual? Sexuality labels are used for describing the sex/gender preference specifically, not the individual characteristics of the category.

I find the Kandasexual wording more on the comedy side rather than legitimately explaining her sexuality. The whole "genitals don't matter" sounds like pansexual, although I guess she could still be gay without realizing it because she's too dense.

last edited at Aug 12, 2020 11:07AM

It seems like whether or not people are content with the axed ending depends on whether or not their favorite couple got together. In my case, I'm happy Risa and Aya made it, but I wish we could've gotten that one cover of them getting married, or if not maybe trying on wedding dresses together? Heck, I would've at least had them wearing rings or something in their last scene.

Well, my favorite was Aya and Risa, but I'm still bitter over the ending. I just don't get behind the idea that it's a happy ending because Miyu seems to have moved on. It feels more like masking the problem. It would be different than them confessing and getting rejected. It would feel more right.

Regarding Aya and Risa yeah, they both wear rings in their left ring fingers. Also they are in the UK (you can see from the flag in a panel) and the European buildings, so we could guess that they went there to also get married in the future.
I actually did expect to see them getting married in the last chapter too, because there were many references for them about marriage all through the manga. But i think we should be grateful for the het marriage author gave us in the past chapter. Who cares about the marriage of the couple who by miracle managed to stay together in this yuri story anyway.

"There are tons of lesbian couples that don't work out just because each of them are women"
This statement feels odd or off for some reason

Idk if you're referring to the content of it or the wording. It does sound odd regarding the wording. Also when Risa says "I hope people accept us" when hugging Aya, it feels like the author is breaking her character and it's mostly the author speaking rather than Risa because it doesn't have any coherence with the particular scene. Also her mentioning different genders, wasn't relevant with the scene. It would fit more if someone like Tsubasa said it for example (although Tsubasa did make a similar mention as well)

I don't know why Nozomi having a boyfriend is hitting me harder than the marriage. Maybe it's because there were hints that Moe and Hikari's love were mutual at a point but not acted on (completely). But then Miyu's is one sided which hurts a bit coz I spent the entire time cheering for her because Nozomi might just feel the same! But I guess not or she just never thought about it. Ahhhh :(

I'm not complining. This makes sense. It just hurts. I'm just glad my favorite couple was in the last page. IwashitaXTsubasa close second so I'm a little cushioned from these sunken ships.

Nozomi's feelings can be interpreted either way. Her whole arc was that she was really oblivious as a person, so even if she did have these feelings or the potential to have these feelings, it wasn't realized. Plus that chapter of her acting all weird when she found out the manager was dating a woman. Unless she was hit hard with bricks, it would never occur to her to think of Asama this way, but that doesn't mean the potential or even unrealized feelings weren't there. So I personally don't put that on the unrequited love, because given the circumstances, Nozomi could have developed these feelings too.
I on the other hand was more bothered by Hikari and Moe, precisely for the reason that you mentioned lol.
Like, if someone doesn't like you then you don't lose anything anyway. But it's more tragic if feelings are mutual but situations force it to not happen. It's interesting to see how the same stuff hit people differently.

Also I agree, best couple for last frame at least and even Risa was her usual teasing/idiot self with Aya. I was always excited for their chapters, but even them can't salvage the rest of this ending for me.

I read the raws yesterday and thought Miyu and Nozomi actually got a happy ending...
I was prepared to be disappointed yesterday, then it was a nice surprise (because I assumed they ended up together) and I let my guard down, so this sucks more lol....

Regarding Risa and Aya, I remember a conversation I had with someone here who was saying how Aya only confessed because her mom happened to find that photo, and that it seemed like she was about to break up with Risa. Well, considering this epilogue "we are together because of your mom" it seems like Aya was indeed planning to break up with Risa that day. Like wow...

The morale author wants to make here is clear: A lot of fxf couples don't end up together only because they are both female. This isn't news for most, but what the author manages to do is pass that reality for manga stories as well, which is very original on its own and kudos for being so creative.

As for the very last scene of Risa and Aya planning to go back, it feels like it was making a setup for a sequel. After this ending I wouldn't be excited for that and I'll be pretty content putting this manga behind, but only a sequel could make it salvageable and there are a lot of things left to be said even for the couples that ended up together, like Aya's dad.
Either way, how it ended is very disappointing for multiple reasons and that's a shame because it was doing great a few chapters ago.

last edited at Aug 11, 2020 2:39AM

But to return to a point some ways back in the thread, that does make Risako primarily a “plot device,” not necessarily to get Uta and Kaoru together, as the OP was arguing, but to move Kaoru off her “starting over with Reicchi” stasis, anyway.

I wouldn't call her a plot device, because being a force to push the main character(s) is very important on itself. Plus, a plot device suggests something being blank. Risako's character is thought out and doesn't only have one layer.
True fillers here would be Uta's friends because they don't influence the story and its protagonists, despite them interacting with Uta for several chapters.

Point is, OP was saying Risako is useless, which is not the case because if you remove her, the story changes quite a lot. Now, remove Uta's friends and nothing happens. Both of them and Risako could be considered as secondary characters, but there's a difference of who is important for the story or not.

last edited at Aug 4, 2020 4:52PM

This is inaccurate. She doesn't do anything. Reichii loves Risako but Risako herself doesn't do anything to help Kaoru until after they are caught. She would've let Kaoru feel the way she does if their little secret continued or if Reichii didn't come clean. Reichii is the one that brought things to the surface not Risako. She just reinforced what Kaoru already knew

You miss the point of Kaoru's very distinct characteristic. She always avoids everything hurtful, like her mom.
The situation with Risako and her thinking Reichii was cheating on her was what pushed her to discuss about it with him, and that's because she felt he was cheating.
If Risako didn't exist, Kaoru would barely process in her mind that maybe Reichii doesn't love her this way. Her mom died and she never told her she was sick.

You don't actively have to "do something". You can still be a catalyst regardless. Her presence influenced Reichii to meet with her, and then pushed Kaoru to finally talk about it after she saw them together.

last edited at Aug 4, 2020 3:56PM

Its like she's there just to make Kaoru suffer, which makes her more of a plot device to get her and Uta together.

That's pretty inaccurate. If it wasn't for Risako, Reichii's lack of romantic feelings towards Kaoru wouldn't come to the surface. Kaoru would probably always feel there's something missing with Reichii, and even get more and more miserable with years because of him not responding to her feelings.
Risako is the catalyst-wake up call for Kaoru to highlight the reality of her relationship with Reichii.

Oh, I wasn't following this conversation right from the beginning regarding Kaoru and Uta's dynamic, so I was replying to that general notion of whether 18 year olds are mature enough or can be as mature as someone in their twenties.

If we talk about these two, I'd say their maturity difference is not unrealistic because they don't have a big age gap. And by maturity I don't just mean the emotional and intellectual only.
When people grow older, it is impossible to remain the same because their life situations force them to change, take responsibilities, not being able to do the things they used to because of their agility deteriorating and having more health problems etc.

Risako is gay, isn't she?

Yes.

last edited at Jul 31, 2020 3:41PM

18-year-olds are not as mature as 22-year-olds--except for the ones who are. 25-year-olds are more mature than 18-year-olds--except for the ones who aren't. (I can name a half-dozen childhood friends who haven't matured past the mental age of 17 in several decades.)

Exceptions don't make the rule, and these exceptions shouldn't be used as examples for taking away the right for the teens to be treated as teens, or for immature adults to be treated as adults.

There are some kids who get a bachelor's at 11, should we bend the rule and expect from every kid the same? If the divergence from the norm is too extreme (like some people remaining exactly the same at 50 as they were at 12) then this is more of an anomaly.

Isn't she like 6 months from graduation? 17.5 isn't really 'child' even if we sometimes pretend it is for the sake of legal categories.

Is 18 years the age of "adulthood" for where they are at least? If i'm not mistaken, in Japan is 20, but i'm not sure if they're living in Japan or not...

Can you really consider a 18 y/o as a kid ?

In theory she's not a child (a few months away from 18), but 18 yos are quite different than 25 or even 22.
Just because someone turns into an adult and can vote etc, that doesn't immediately make them mature.

OK, Blastaar agrees with MacySan and circamoore on the same day. Let’s all shake hands, and come out swinging next chapter.

Ok then (y) You guys do you, I also think Circamoore could write a good fan fiction of this story and I'm not saying this in a bad way.
Peace.

If you insist of thinking this story is about them ending up together,

OK, this is just bad-faith argumentation—the story may or may not be about them “ending up together,” but that’s not the argument.

What happens with Kaoru and Uta remains to be seen. (At this point, as everyone has been pointing out forever, it seems unlikely, but with the way this trainwreck is told, who knows?)

But the story set up at least the potential for Kaoru’s feelings for Uta to take an overtly romantic turn from the quasi-romantic form they took in the early part of the story.

I don't disagree on that