Oh man, is she in the right place, or what.

I am quite happy to be the first to reply to this post !
I think you have an OVERWHELMINGLY pessimistic representation of relationships.

I mean, there's nothing pessimistic about it, it's just statistics. The average person will date 5-6 people in their lifetime. Some people just date one, some date 20. Some have lifelong relationships, some never settle with anybody, but on average, -most- of the people you are likely to date are not going to be your one and only. You don't have to take my word for it, do a spot poll on pretty much any group of people you meet.

How many people in this group are currently dating the first person they ever went for?

I bet it's a small number.

They're not only doom and gloom, they're also wholesome and make you more than you are.
According to people having been in such consensual relationships (or that they FELT to be so), the feelings are just nothing like your usual relationship.

Yeah, that's kinda what I said? The highs are higher, the lows are lower. Everything's elevated. I've been there, believe me.

It's something out of this world. So, you don't "break up" in this situation, if sex becomes a normal part of your normal "sibling" or "parental" love, there is no turning back. I don't see how you can stop to love your mother or father just because you now have sex with them. You knew and loved them before, or you wouldn't bang them anyway.

(rubs face) Oh my sweet summer child. Do you honestly think that if you are in love with someone, you'll never break up? Because people do. People do all the time. I've had literal dozens of friends go through breakups with their "one and only". Some got dumped, some did the dumping, sometimes it was just a mutual souring of the relationship. People grow and change. But even when the breakup is fairly amicable (and they frequently aren't), it's still really hard to be around the person.

You can't really have a "crush" on someone you know for years, it has to be much deeper.

You're -adorable-

And last point: not acting or coming to term with one's feeling and attraction, causes a lot of emotional damage too: if you have a strong, unexpressed desire for YEARS for your kid or the opposite, it's likely to ferment and turn to hatred or resentment.

Yeah, no. I don't buy this for a moment. You have to -process- those feelings in a healthy way, but it is absolutely possible to be attracted to someone, to recognize that it's a bad idea, and to let those feelings go and maintain a healthy relationship. I've never been there with family, but friends do this all the time.

True love is not something easy to sweep under the carpet without consequences... And familial love is more likely than not, to be very intense and genuine.

Sexual attraction is a hormone response, kid. Love is about caring about someone's well-being and wanting them to be happy. Romantic love is about wanting that person to be closest to you, to pair bond. You don't need sex to have romance, you don't need romance to have love, you don't need love to have sex.

"True Love" means very different things to different people. I'm guessing you think of true love and you think of your heart pounding, your palms sweating, cheeks flushed. The all-encompassing need to be with someone, to hold them, to kiss them, to desire their undivided attention.

When you get older and wiser, you realize that's just being horny, and that real true love is the feeling of understanding someone and being comfortable in your relationship with them. That's something that comes with time and effort for most people.

Being horny for someone makes you want to pair-bond with them, It's instinctive social behavior. That's "Love at first sight". It pulls you in, makes you want the other thing, and it doesn't work out more often than it does. I promise you, again, statistics. I'm not making this shit up. And I also promise you, you can get over it. You can be absolutely entirely smitten with someone, and it doesn't work out, and you get over it. Everybody that's ever had to get over an unrequited love can tell you. The earlier you let it go, the easier it is. Whiiiiich is why it's best to discourage people from taking sexual interest in family, because it's easier to let it go if you don't spend forever mooning over the person before it reaches critical mass and blows up your life.

Some people get lucky, and fall straight from being smitten to real love in one go, but that's just because they got horny for someone they turned out to be compatible with. It's like rolling a pair of dice and getting two sixes. Sure, it's gonna happen now and then, but if you think it always happens just because you saw it once, you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

And for two people to be family, -and- romantically compatible, -and- both interested in each other sexually? (and an extra dice roll if they're the same gender) That is a lot of dice rolls to risk ruining your life on. That's part of why it makes for compelling fiction. But it's a bad bet, ultimately.

They're judging it through the lens of real life; boomerism has nothing to do with it.

Same thing with real life, what's the problem if they're cute girls?

To rephrase the question, besides biological issues (which dont matter if you just dont have kids), whats intrinsically wrong about consensual incest ?

So it looks like a lot of the replies to this kind of sidestepped the actual question, so I'm gonna jump in the middle here and throw out my perspective on this question:

Ignoring the inherent power dynamics in a lot of incestuous relationships: (An older sibling or parent has a LOT of emotional sway over their younger sibling or child, and that can lead to really problematic dynamics, even if both parties are consenting adults.)

The function of the family in every day life (when it works, that is) is to provide stable material and emotional support to people, especially while they're in the developing stages of life. They're there for you (in principle, if you have a shitty family I'm not trying to blow that off)) no matter what is going on in your life

Romantic entanglements are complicated and messy. They have higher highs and lower lows than any other kind of human interaction. Sex gets those endorphins pumping and this can lead to posessiveness, jealousy, frustration, bliss, agony, fear, confidence...And most romantic relationships don't work out. On average, people go through five or six relationships before they find "the one" and most relationships with exes are...fraught.

Generally speaking, you have the entirety your preferred gender to choose from on this risky venture, and with most people, if it doesn't work out, you just go your seperate ways and stay out of each other's way.

Now imagine that your ex is your mom's daughter, That she's at all family occasions, that you are obligated to attend her wedding, or babysit her kids. You can walk away from that relationship, sure, but then that puts strain on everybody else in your family, even if they are accepting of the original relationship, which they probably definitely are not. Basically, don't piss in your drinking water.

Fact of the matter is, if you get a crush on a sibling or parent, and you let that crush sit in the background, you'll probably get over it and move on to a healthier relationship. But if you act on it, you could nuke your entire family, destroy everybody's support structures, and probably ruin some lives.

last edited at Apr 14, 2020 2:57PM

Wow. Grandma with that old school multiplayer tech!

But the real question is, was it a Super Famicom, PlayStation or Saturn? This is important to determine her exact level of awesome.

Wikipedia tells me it's not PlayStation (games exist for it, but not with multitap), so awesomeness levels are definitely on the higher end. Nintendo as the usual home of Bomberman games makes the most sense, I'd say.

Also fact: When grandma offered Shima the third controller, I automatically saw a SNES controller in my mind.

Bomberman Party on PS1 had 5 player support with a multitap. It was no match, tho, for Bomberman Saturn which supported up to 10 players with two multi-taps.

Wow. Grandma with that old school multiplayer tech!

But the real question is, was it a Super Famicom, PlayStation or Saturn? This is important to determine her exact level of awesome.

The console probably belonged to Shimamura's mom when she was younger, So my guess would be Super Famicom,

Do we know if any groups have considered picking this series up since the previous translator had to step away?

Because it can start to smell. Most people wouldn't keep smelly, spoiled food in their freezer, (most likely through a move) and if the author intended her to be that messed up over her mom's death, they most likely would have shown the containers much more explicitly.

As it is, it's way more likely Kaoru just also buys ice cream sometimes.

Uhm... this may or may not reveal more about me than you, but I think you don't really know what spoiled ice-cream is like. You can keep ice-cream in the freezer years beyond the expiration date and literally nothing happens. It breaks down into a more crystalized state and tastes horrible, but it neither smells nor builds any fungi or similar things.

Well I can't say whether this was a subtle detail or not, but I think you can't categorically deny it based on expiration.

Actually, I've personally had ice cream go bad about a month after expiration and develop an unpleasant odor. Bacteria spread and give it a bad smell, and it can make you ill if you eat it. Maybe it depends on specific conditions.

Either way, I still feel like if the author meant this to be the case, they would have tried harder to make it explicit.

As it stands now, we don't even know that Kaoru's mother didn't eat that Haagen daas herself: It is explicitly stated that her passing was the year -after- the hospital visit, And she was still hiding her condition at the time of the scene we were shown, which suggests that she probably wasn't going to be in the hospital from then until her death. If she wasn't ever going to leave the hospital again, I don't think she'd be bothering to hide her condition.

So we have two possible explanations, if those are ice cream pints:

1) Kaoru was so traumatized by her mother's death that she kept expired ice cream in her freezer, (possibly through a move? its suggested she's been living on her own for awhile) because several months before her mother unexpectedly passed away, she told Kaoru not to touch the limited edition Haagen Daas. The her mother also didn't eat it herself between the time when she first decided to conceal her condition and when she died the following year.

2) Kaoru likes ice cream, which is a trait she would share with basically all humans.

The fact that you think the execution of plot is a matter of "taste," and that you see this series as effectively developing characters tells me that we certainly do have nothing to discuss.

You think you know these characters as people; I see puppets dangling from clumsily manipulated strings, like Uta, hurried off the stage to twiddle her thumbs in limbo until the time for her plot-required change of heart brings her hustling back. The readerly work ethic required to perceive consistent character development in this, to say nothing of the ludicrous rigamarole that Citrus turned out to be, is quite amazing.

Blas, I think you know I respect your analysis, and I defiitely also have my issue with the way this series has been structured, but I do feel like you are letting your frustrations with this series color your conclusions here.

Uta still being in love with Kaoru is pretty normal, honenstly. I have personally explicitly been in her situation, where I was hopelessly in love with someone who didn't return my feelings, and I'll tell you right now I've had at least three distinct "I am over her"-"wait shit nope, no I'm not" moments. Even now, I've conclusively given up on ever even seeing that person again, I've moved on with my life, but I'm still definitely in love with her, and I'm pretty sure I always will be. Unrequited love is a form of grief. There are stages of moving on, and sometimes you're better and sometimes you're worse, and sometimes you're okay with things, but sometimes you're not. It's messy and painful and you can backslide and break down for no reason at all.

Uta accepted that Kaoru wasn't going to return her feelings and moved away, but that does't mean she stops loving her. I mean, why would she? Kaoru is still the person Uta fell in love with. She hasn't changed, so why would Uta's feelings? Could the author have shown us more explicitly why Uta has gotten to her current place emotionally? Sure. But every writer makes decisions about what details to show and focus on, and every reader has different expectations about what does and doesn't need to be made explicit.

As for the deeper question of whether there's a plan at work here, I dunno. I feel like either of you could be right. It's -true- that all of the revelations so far seem to be internally consistent with what we've been shown. The only things that have been contradicted have been things we assumed. We have a mystery in terms of Risako's intentions and feelings. It's become the primary source of suspense in the entire story. So I think the payoff for that plotline is gonig to determine how/if the whole thing works in the end.

I keep going back to this line. This line never made sense to me in context. I suspected at the time it might just be an awkward translation, and I still think that's the case. At the time, I thought she was commenting on how she should be Uta's sister rather than Kaoru, but now I'm starting to suspect that she was expressing jealousy about how Uta, as her sister, can easily visit Kaoru, while Risako has to pass messages along and hear about her condition second-hand. Honestly rereading those early chapters feels pretty different with what we know now, which is probably a good sign?

I think it's pretty clear Reiichi married Kaoru out of sympathy. He's probably still carrying a torch for Risako. I thought Risako was also into him and bitter about the marriage, but now It seems more like she's into -Kaoru- and bitter about the marriage. Which...actually makes the title pretty goddamned appropriate, come to think. Everybody in that love triangle has an unrequited love for someone else in that triangle.

So in conclusion, (shrug) I'unno. I still think the side plot with Chloe and her girlfriend is meandering and a distraction from the real story, but I feel like the main plot might actually have legs if the author would just get down to it.

They look small for that. And even if they are pint size ice cream containers, I doubt they're the same one. It's been years at that point. Grief can make you do weird things, sure, but ice cream spoils, y'know.

Why is spoiling a criteria of whether she keeps them in the fridge or not? The entire point is that she can't bring herself to touch them right? She is not gonna eat it.

Because it can start to smell. Most people wouldn't keep smelly, spoiled food in their freezer, (most likely through a move) and if the author intended her to be that messed up over her mom's death, they most likely would have shown the containers much more explicitly.

As it is, it's way more likely Kaoru just also buys ice cream sometimes.

^^We know Uta's mom lost her medical license right, probably something to do with her treatment of Kaoru's mom and keeping it secret, or maybe she did other stuff against the rules to help her / stop her suffering? And the family fell apart after she got sacked and / or because of what she did?

She treated her friend. That's a conflict of interest and is enough of a problem by itself to have potentially gotten her fired. Doctors shouldn't treat friends or family. Many hospitals have rules explicitly banning them from doing so, because it opens up the hospital to civil suits. They'll often overlook stuff like that if it's just someone's GP or whatever, but if there's a serious medical condition where someone dies, that conflict of interest can become a serious legal liability.

There may be more to it, but it's bad enough if she didn't step away from the case and refer her to a colleague when her prognosis became serious. In fact, since Kaoru doesn't seem particularly angry at Uta and Reiichi's mother, it seems unlikely she's actually responsible for what happened in any meaningful way. "License suspended for practicing under a conflict of interest" fits the fact pattern we have pretty well. It also makes sense that she'd leave the country to continue practicing. If she lost her license to practice in Japan over a relatively minor ethical violation, she could still make a good living in a country with more lax ethics rules, but if she actually got a patient killed, that'd be more likely to follow her wherever she moved.

• Kaoru's mom told Kaoru to not eat the Haagen-Dasz in the freezer when Kaoru visited her in the hospital. When Reichii visits Kaoru fter her mother's death, Kaoru notes that her fridge is empty, but you can see tubs in the freezer that could be ice cream.

That definitely looks like a pint size container of ice cream. Sad if she's kept it this whole time but a nice catch.

They look small for that. And even if they are pint size ice cream containers, I doubt they're the same one. It's been years at that point. Grief can make you do weird things, sure, but ice cream spoils, y'know.

I mean, so like, Yeesh. There are some interesting moral questions here, that don't really get investigated at all?

I mean, if you get to see a potential future with these girls in it, and then that future gets changed so they don't exist, I can see how that might feel like they've died? And if your actions are what changed their future, then it makes sense you might feel responsible for ensuring their existence.

I feel like it could have been more interesting if it turned out that the reason Rin kept dying was because she kept killing herself to try and get back to a timeline where the girls exist, but it doesn't seem written that way. (That would be way more interesting, honestly. A-chan keeps trying to get a universe where Rin lives, but Rin keeps killing herself to reset to an earlier time, not realizing the timeline was only resetting because of A-chan's mysterious power and that she was actually leaving behind an increasingly traumatized lover each time they reset.

As it is, this thing is a pretty big mess. There are some interesting ideas, but it's just not very well thought out.

The dumbest thing to me is "Oh, she loves you, so that's why she resembles me." Because yeah, that's how -physical resemblence- works. Right. She literally mistook her for A-chan when she first saw her. And the girl who looks just fucking like her is the only one that isn't a blood relative? (shake head) It seems to me more like the author just realized after the fact that the ages don't quite match up and they had to come up with an excuse for that.

Oh, and I forgot the classic horror trope - the characters become the monster... Reiichi maybe is such an emotional sinkhole because he grew up with parents who emotionally neglected him, completely unable and mostly unaware of how to support Kaoru... Kaoru becoming a mess a lot like her mom, not taking care of herself properly...

This is pretty fucked up, everyone is a trainwreck.

We don't actually know if her mother didn't look after herself. In fact that last flashback suggested heavily that "I'm just overworked" was a cover for "I have a serious health problem with a fatal prognosis."

(deep breath)

"It would only prolong her sadness."

Gee, yeah, mom, you're right. I'm sure if your death is a fucking SURPRISE, she'll handle it way faster and more healthily. You goddamn fucking numbskull.

"I see girl trouble in your future."

"But I'm a girl."

"You fuckin' heard me."

with all this buildup I'll be very disappointed if there's no epic final showdown between Tarumi and Adachi in vol. 9

Hell yeah, can't wait for the epic Stand Rushes and hour-long screaming, especially since it's a light novel, where it's very detailed lol.
But in all seriousness, I hope there's an actual confrontation between Adachi and Tarumi and if not, hopefully they will at least know of each other, because I think their reactions would be pretty interesting. Oh, and Shimamura should also be involved lol.

I don't think that "girl trouble" fortune is over yet.

Love triangle, but a very awkward one.

It's not a love triangle. Asahi doesn't love Subaru that way.

It's the kind of love triangle where one leg of the triangle is completely and utterly committed to supercharging the cause of another leg of the triangle.

Which may make it a different angle altogether, but I flunked geometry, so I can't say which one.

I call it aCute.

Love triangle, but a very awkward one.

It's not a love triangle. Asahi doesn't love Subaru that way.

Depends on your definition of a love triangle. If one of the loves is platonic, but it's still significant enough to interfere with the romantic love on the other end, would that still be a kind of love triangle?

I find it hilarious that all of the named characters that did/do track and field with Kase apparently have a crush on her. First it was Aikawa, then Fukami, and now even Inoue got pretty flustered at the idea of her and Kase sharing a room. And of course Kase's never going to notice, since she's just so goddamn in love with Yamada.

(Okay, calling them crushes might be a bit of a stretch but I still find it funny)

Yeah, Inoue is clearly worried about Yamada getting jealous more than the actual prospect of sharing a room. She knows she teased Yamada before by letting her think she had a thing for Kase, so she's probably particularly wary about avoiding a genuine misunderstanding. In fact in general this issue her wingwoman cred is high, diffusing possible jealousies, getting them alone time together, etc.

I am interested to see how long it takes Fukami to suss out what's going on, now that she's clearly noticed that something is, in fact, going on.

It amuses me that neither Kase nor Yamada seem to be even tangentially aware of Aikawa on any level. Everybody else greeted Aikawa and Fukami, Kase only noticed Fukami, and pretty much all of Yamada's jealous worries have been directed at the roommate.

Are fireworks legal in Japan?

Things like sparklers and firecrackers are, for sure, and can be easlily found in covenience stores all over Japan. I'd guess stuff you shoot off into the sky is a little more restricted, but I'm not sure of that.

extorting physical services for rent

Cool erotica trope.

cheese in gyoza

I'm out of here!

But seriously, yeah, whew that chapter 8!

As for earlier discussion, why is "pay rent money, or I evict you" a legitimate business transaction, but "have sex or pay money, or I evict you" extortion?

Biology. Sex acts release neurochemicals that stimulate emotional dependency and build intimacy. As such, human society, in general, tends to afford greater weight to sexual activity than other behaviors, and so forcing someone to engage in them without honest consent is traumatic, and therefore immoral.

It's not the same for everyone, because people are different, but in general, this is why sex crimes are more traumatic than non-sex crimes, and why casual sex is so hard of a concept for a lot of people.

lots of sex

Warning, gravitational anomoly detected.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOONE!

I finally caught up again

Also, there's one thing that has been bothering me. Yashiro was always described as having blue hair, so I imagined something like Erio Towa even before knowing Denpa Onna is from the same writer.

Then she appeared in color and her hair is actually white.

It's a very light blue, but
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/adachi_and_shimamura_novel_ch01_4#4
I'd definitely call that blue.

She isn't the only character that doesn't seem to match what I imagined from the descriptions.

Fixed that for you. ;p

I tease, but more seriously, who do you mean? I feel like everybody's mostly pretty consistent with how they're described?

I mean, didn't you will find strange that your daughter's classmate give her flowers when it's not her birthday ?

Not suspicious at all. xD
Is it even common for people to receive bouquets on birthdays?

Maybe not common, but definitely less suspicious.