I would like to apologize if I was overly aggressive or dismissive; I wasn't in a good mood these past few days and shouldn't have gotten into an argument about sensitive issues while I was in that mental state. I haven't changed my position, but I really don't want to argue about it anymore lol, and I regret the role I played in causing drama in this thread. Hope everyone has a great weekend.

always glad to see a Yotsuhara Furiko work be on featured, she's probably my favorite oneshot author period

If that's how you feel about it you are welcome to that, but from my perspective I think anyone should be allowed to lie about their gender, or rather than say lie, I don't think anyone has a right to demand to know your gender.

It's not a question of "rights." Mitsuki has obviously not committed a literal crime. What she's done is (a) deliberately misled another person (b) in a way she knew, or should've known, would cause them great pain if they found out (as we saw happen in this very chapter) (c) purely in order to preserve this pseudo-friendship pseudo-romance thing she had going on with her. What precise information Aya had a "right" to know about is irrelevant. Mitsuki hurt her. She did a mean thing. She should apologize! (And I'm sure she will.) And that's all I have to say about this.

there is a suggestion that lying about one's gender would always be wrong. . . . It's that lying about one's gender is something anyone should be allowed to do, but it's easiest to understand with the trans example.

Well, first of all, the people in the trans example aren't lying about their gender, they're telling the truth about that; what they're lying/misleading about is that they're trans and not cis, which is a completely different axis of identity. A better example would be, off the top of my head, women in the Middle Ages who pretended to be men so they could work in male-exclusive occupations (sailing most famously). I think it's safe to say they weren't "wrong" to do so, but that leads to the second problem: there's an ocean of difference between "sometimes it's okay to lie about your gender" (obviously true) and "anyone should be allowed to lie about their gender" (this seems just straightforwardly false to me).

So if we're going to talk about this manga and not just speak in abstraction, the question is not whether in the abstract lying about your gender is sometimes ok, but whether Mitsuki deliberately misleading Aya -- not only about her gender but also about how her crush sits right next to her in class and hears her talk to her friends about her crush -- is justified. That question can't be answered by saying "well, in this other case that has a couple similarities lying about one's gender was justified."

Who determines what it means to "understand the story on its own terms"? I'd challenge you, or anyone taking issue with this discussion, to explain where Uranusandetc or flowsthead have committed wrongs in their character interpretations, with a lack of story understanding in mind. Failing that, I'm really not sure what value such meta discussion brings to this thread.

I'm not going to go back through the thread to see who all did it, but I do think the continuous comparisons of Mitsuki misleading Aya about her gender to a trans person not wanting to out themselves as trans is precisely the sort of context-ignoring hyper-politicized argument that can make civil conversations difficult. It fundamentally misunderstands Mitsuki's character and actions by comparing her to someone she is most decidedly not (even if we read her as nonbinary). I don't think it should be against forum rules or anything to make that argument, but it's also fair to say that anyone who does so is failing to "understand the story on its own terms" by importing into it an (emotionally charged -- for very good reason mind you) issue that is at best tangentially related.

Stories are in part just entertainment, sure, but in part they are also the way we approach the world and talk about important issues in our lives or important events that we care about or have emotional reactions to.

I think what Blastaar is frustrated by is the tendency of moral litigation of each character's sins to overshadow real analysis of who the characters are, why they act the way they do, and how their actions impact the broader themes of the story. At certain points the arguments in this thread have been less about the manga and more about a moral disagreement tangentially related to the manga.

Stories can be a great way to approach real-world issues. But to do that, you need to first understand the story on its own terms (otherwise you're not actually talking about the story at all), and it's that first step that's often missing.

On reflection, the line in this chapter that stood out to me the most is Yuuna saying:

"Kiku is...the person I trust the most."

It's one thing to say this about a best friend, it's another to say this about your ex when you're currently engaged to be married. It makes me more curious to know what exactly caused their breakup.

Of course we all love it as fans, but looking at it objectively . . . [it's] not moe

Speak for yourself, I think Minamo and Yurika are extremely moe.

But yeah I take your point, especially regarding the art. While I think the artstyle is quite fitting for the manga since it focuses attention squarely on the dialogue, I imagine most magazines would not see it that way If Masatsuka ever gets serialized it'd probably have to be as a writer strictly.

Well, I'm not sure being subjected to deadlines and editor's scrutiny is ideal due to sensei's depression. I just hope Masatsuka sensei can live comfortably doing what they love (making manga) in whichever way they'd like.

I take your point, but it depends; speaking as someone with some depressive tendencies, deadlines and scrutiny can help encourage you to be active/productive when you would otherwise wallow. But yes, if they can make a comfortable living just through fanbox/patreon and whatever "regular" jobs they can do, that would be fine too obviously. I just mainly wish more people read their work, lol.

super sorry in advance but i really don't want to comb through this discussion to see what people are referring to by consent so can someone please summarize why people are criticizing this manga?

People are arguing about the extent to which Mitsuki had an obligation to tell Aya the truth about "onii-san." They're not really criticizing the manga, though perhaps some will in the future depending on how the current arc ends. "Consent" I think came up because the situation got compared to the question of whether a trans person has an obligation to tell the person they're dating that they're trans; I personally do not think it's a very helpful concept in this discussion.

The premise reminds me of this oneshot

edit: also the title doesn't seem to be too accurate, she clearly didn't seem to be fed up with her job and actually liked it but got fired...

Title doesn't say what she was fed up with

Thanks for the updates, Miragecraft! I hadn't realized it until I read through their post, but I guess Subtraction Tautology is self-published? That's kind of crazy to think because it's legitimately one of the best ongoing manga out there IMO, regardless of genre. Hopefully Masatsuka-sensei gets picked up for a serialization at some point because their skill at writing dialogue is top of the top.

6 chapters was definitely not enough for this manga, which is a shame because I quite liked all the characters. The character development in particular really started to feel artificial from chapter 3 on, with most of it taking place in exposition ("I feel this way" followed by "Now I feel this other way"). The end result isn't bad, I think the manga is pretty good overall, it's just kind of wasted potential. Hopefully Miura will get more volumes to work with in their next serialization.

I think it's too early to judge how generic this'll be. The protagonist getting someone wholesale (instead of taking over someone's body) is already rare in villainess isekais; them being an utterly powerless (at least for now) working class person even moreso.

What'll really matter is the quality of the characters. The protagonist isn't particularly interesting so it'll really need the villainess to be compelling. It would be best if her "heel face turn" is due to understandable yet unjustifiable character motivations and not either some sort of magical possession or "she's a misunderstood cinnamon roll who had everyone's best interest in mind all the time." We'll see where this manga goes with her. (And yeah I dearly hope the heroine isn't secretly evil, that's possibly the most annoying villainess Isekai trope there is.)

The great thing about this manga is that Hinoka hearing or not hearing Tsukushi's confession doesn't make a difference since she already thinks they're dating anyway

this manga has ultra blazing fast pacing and, while i appreciate that stuff is always happening, it does mean the emotional beats don't land nearly as hard as they would if they got more time to breathe. it's basically a soap opera just with marimite vampires. oh well, at least i'm intrigued enough to want to know what'll happen next.

So I guess the idea is that most people forget the "previous day" when it repeats, but the protagonist remembers everything due to her photographic memory? That certainly would drive most people crazy; it's honestly pretty impressive this girl just has an antisocial personality.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too. My question is, what is this genre commonly localized as?

Novel Updates uses "System Administrator"

this manga proves that, contrary to popular belief, murasakino is capable of writing happy endings

Just realized that Kaoru is college Kaguhara

I really like how this arc characterized Reika. She's not malicious or evil like Himawari asserts; rather, she's immature, self-centered, and thoughtless -- a pretty accurate representation of what kind of adult dates teenagers in real life. Of course, that doesn't stop her from hurting Yurika deeply; if anything it makes it even harder for Yurika, who doesn't even get the luxury of hating the person who exploited her.

While this manga is rather rough around the edges, I quite enjoyed reading through it. I particularly like how proactive the characters are (aside from sensei); I was certainly not expecting Mizuki to move this quickly, and Haruka breaking up their kiss by using her secret technique (blackmail) was also extremely fun. This is a very character-driven story despite its absurd premise and that allows me to overlook how it sometimes skips over details like how sensei is being nice to Haruka presumably because she has some sense of why she's acting this way.

Looking forward to Haruka's younger sister joining the cohabitation

last edited at Aug 21, 2022 6:24PM

The author said that instead of being a work that could be classified as Yuri, the story is about the relationship between women (which can, indeed, mean friendship; please let’s not come back to the yuri or yurin’t debate).

Sumiko uses the word "aijou" in that interview, which specifically means "love" or "affection."

"Ai" is all forms of love: parent and child, brother and sister, romantic, platonic, etc. If you want to talk specifically about passionate (sexual) love then "koi" is the right word to use. When the author said that her story was not about yuri but rather about "generic love" between women she prolly meant that there won't be a lesbian/sexual side in the relationship between Aya and Mitsuki. (But maybe I'm wrong...)

Maybe translating the entire quote will make it clearer:

"I'm not sure whether the manga I'm writing is what people call 'yuri.' It's more like 'love between women'; I feel a fascination toward that theme. There was a time when I myself struggled [she uses "nayamu" here] with my sexuality, so it makes me very happy to see people with different sexualities, backgrounds, lives, and occupations read the stories and characters born from that time [in my life]. Please continue to kindly watch over Mitsuki and Aya."

If this story and these characters are inspired by the period in Sumiko's life when she was struggling with her own sexuality, I think it's safe to say they're not just going to be straight, platonic friends.

The author said that instead of being a work that could be classified as Yuri, the story is about the relationship between women (which can, indeed, mean friendship; please let’s not come back to the yuri or yurin’t debate).

Sumiko uses the word "aijou" in that interview, which specifically means "love" or "affection." I think she's resistant to the term "yuri" because it can be quite subjective and ambiguous; what she says instead, both in that interview and in her Twitter bio, is closer to the English "women who love women."

In other words, don't worry everyone, a friendship end is very unlikely lol.

The hate Shion gets here is just further proof that there's no greater sin a fictional character can commit than being mean to the protagonist. I personally think she's the most interesting character in the manga right now, and I'm looking forward to seeing dancing go from being merely an artificial replacement for a real, honest connection with Kiki to something Shion loves for its own sake, as something she can excel at and finally gain self-confidence from.

As for this chapter, the main line I found notable was Michiru saying the purpose of dance is to show off the follower. This might suggest that the real reason she hates being called "cute" is that it gives her a kind of hypervisibility; it causes people to ignore who she actually is and what she's actually doing and focus entirely on her superficial qualities -- "She looks like the actress Yukihana"; "I want to go out with her". For an anime/manga industry and even wider culture that fetishizes "cuteness" especially for girls and women, this is a very unique and even somewhat subversive character trait, and her philosophical clash with Kiki who wants nothing more than this hypervisibility should end up embodying the core themes of the manga.