Well I know she was cool in being open and vulnerable, but she would actually do stuff about it rather than moping around. She is literally someone who chased a girl around a park and then tackled her in order to declare her love lol It's not very believable that she wouldn't do anything for so many months, after her girlfriend wrote an entire love declaration and then left. She challenges authority since the beginning of the story, so how can we seriously believe she would not even try to question Mei about the need to marry a dude in order to inherit the academy? Or ask everyone around where she is, etc etc. Heck even going to talk to Gramps about it, in case Mei is totally MIA.

last edited at Apr 21, 2018 1:02PM

You know, in the end Matsuri was right (what has she not been right about?). Being around Mei and these rich people in the Aihara school did make Yuzu empty inside just like them. Up to the end of the election arc she was super cool, but she has become so lame. She can't even get pissed off and Go Do Stuff. What high school girl pines over an ex-girlfriend for so many months? For that reason alone I think she is better off without Mei, it's like Mei is turning Yuzu into her lol

I think the explanation for that, other than author laziness of course, is just that the entire story is within Yuzu's narrow perspective and she doesn't know much about anything so we don't either.

About how long the manga will go, I heard it would be 12 volumes? If it's 12 volumes then I guess this wedding thing is the last arc unless it magically resolves in the next couple of chapters. If it goes beyond the wedding arc then it's more likely Harumin is final boss. That would truly make for a bittersweet ending.

It’s not totally implausible, though, because of that character/plot thing I was talking about—we don’t have a definitive read on Harumin’s sexual/romantic inclinations one way or the other, so it might go the way you say or, for all we know, she could end up with Cafe-Owner-kun.

So my reason for thinking she is the final boss is based on what Sabu has done so far, there is method to her madness lol

I think Harumin is the wildcard of the story and that's not a coincidence. Sabu is inconsistent in characterization because she makes every character ultimately exist only to move the YuzuMei plot forward. Harumin is the only character that has so far not contributed to the YuzuMei plot directly (as helper or rival). I thought before she would be used to be the "relationship fixer", since Matsuri went from rival to helper but is unskilled in helping. But Sara is clearly going to be the "relationship fixer". In that case, what is Harumin in the story for?

Also if the plot is being developed on the fly, and is meant to sell the manga, I can't see a plot twist that would sell more than Harumin being final boss. She was made to be a super loved character among the fans, it's like the ultimate drama unless they truly want to end things with a wedding crash.

last edited at Apr 19, 2018 3:22PM

So Harumin’s hanging back could be about her feelings for Yuzu, or it could be a device to set up a later big emotional confrontation scene, or it could just be keeping the two friends apart so that Yuzu suffers alone.

Low-key calling what's gonna happen next: Sara/Nina come over for the weekend, Yuzu spills the beans, Sara believes it's on her to re-unite them (with all her belief in destiny) so she nudges Yuzu into action and meets up with Mei to talk to her. Mei accepts because she is very warm towards Sara and believes she "owes" her for breaking up with her a year before. Sara convinces Mei to act.

BUT here is a very likely plot twist: we will see a version of what happened for them to get together but reversed. Mei will struggle to get her feelings across to Yuzu, and by the time she says "ok I cancelled everything, let's get back together" Yuzu will be like "I'm sorry but I just accepted dating someone else". That someone else is Harumin of course, who got pushed by Matsuri to finally act. Last arc begins with the final boss fight for Yuzu's heart between Mei and Harumin.

last edited at Apr 19, 2018 11:19AM

Why should either of them be forced to do any of these? Why can't they both follow their true dreams instead of having to settle living under gandpas shadow?

No one is being forced to do anything really. The issue is more that they can't deal with the consequences of their choices for now. Namely being probably ostracized by their own family and losing financial security as a consequence. Even Yuzu cannot. The ideal tactic here is to simply prevent any arranged marriage on Mei's end and for them to not come out to their family until they are adults. But Mei is dumb af so...

So after reading the translated version, now I am starting to think Harumin does like Yuzu. Her behaviour as a supposed best friend is starting to seem way too suspicious, it's been months of Yuzu being sad and she is not talking to Yuzu about her problems "because they are best friends"? Right.

To be fair Citrus is truly educational, it's basically the story of What Not To Do With Your Love Life for all the young disaster lesbians out there.

Is it just me or yuri manhwas are much better? Like seriously, I've read Pulse and am reading Tamen De Gushi and they are consistently good throughout.

I finally realized Citrus being "almost good but never satisfying" is what makes it so famous xD The same relationship Yuzu has with Mei, readers have with this manga lol The relationship quality actually sucks overall and the solution is obviously to run for the hills, but the inconsistent rewards keep everyone hooked.

I'm here for the HaruMatsu at this point so the chapter seems ok to me lol

Yes the writing is complicated and could be done much better, but it's unlikely it's done out of malice or due to being pretentious right? Who the heck is going to write a thoughtful wall of text, usually with pretty interesting points once you tease the ideas out, just to troll others when they can have the same effect by writing like 200 ZOMGs in sequence...We live in the era of fast-food information after all lol

I think we can just ask AozTkM to please write more concisely and separate each idea in a separate paragraph :-)

I myself think the "Mei wasn't waving. She was drowning" thing really fits. But will leave it at that.

On the other hand, I must say the obvious: having complex thought processes doesn't equal being pretentious, that's a judgement on the part of whomever is reading. It is certainly better than the shower of dumb (if I may judge it myself) "ZOMG"'s that this forum usually amounts to and will probably become again in 2-3 days once the new chapter is out lol

Also if you read what AozTkM wrote with no judgement, it's actually pretty reasonable and although verbose (which has been his/her style of writing from the start) it is not even THAT complicated.

last edited at Apr 16, 2018 1:59PM

Mei fought a losing battle, and Yuzu took to the waves like a surf fanatic.

This will be from now on the TL;DR of Citrus when I recommend it to friends :-)

I don't understand why everyone thinks that if Mei chose Yuzu she would have to come out of the closet to everyone. She could, you know, just choose not to get married at a stupidly young age and keep her relationship with Yuzu on the down low.

Indeed she doesn't need to go through any of that. The possible ways out as I see them are:

(1) Facing all the heat from coming out, probably losing the business/family wealth in the process. --> Might happen for max drama purposes, but very hard to execute since Saburouta is not that good with her storylines.

(2) If Mei wants to lead the academy, they need to spend the rest of their lives pretending to not be a couple and stressing about being found out by the "high society" that sends their children to the academy. --> Definitely possible but would be a downer, as it dilutes the manga message.

(3) Sho does not come back and Mei abandons the academy to be free, which means nuking the family legacy. --> I think this is the least likely option if you analyze only the character because it would require a change of values, basically she would need to do a total 360 like Sho did. BUT very likely to happen because manga logic and fits the overall message.

(4) Sho decides to come back and takes over the business so that Mei is free. Yuzu and her would still have to be on the down low so as not to damage the business reputation too much but definitely the best solution. Even better if Sho/Ume have another child to replace her as the next official head of the business, she can just work on stuff in the background. --> My bet on what will happen.

last edited at Apr 9, 2018 3:54PM

I agree that Mei is not mature either. So what I mean by saying Yuzu needs to be stronger, is that I think Yuzu will need to tell Mei she would be with her and fight for her through the whole ordeal (assuming Mei didn't drop off the face of the Earth, which I doubt -- seems from the letter she is still in school). And also talk about what they can do to get out of the situation with minimum damage.

Like, all the little relationship challenges they had is nothing in comparison to what Mei is facing here, everything before was just normal relationship stuff like not knowing how to confess your feelings, helping with some family problems etc. Even friends also help each other with such stuff, it's nice but not out of ordinary. But will Yuzu accept being ridiculed, be seen as a terrible person who perverted the daughter of a rich family, accept being shamed (even potentially by their own parents) etc etc? Let alone maybe media scandal and stuff like that, once the word got out since the school is probably famous. They could seriously be stigmatized here socially, as the world of the story seems relatively realistic.

So whatever Yuzu did before in terms of being a good gf, one cannot assume Mei would just know that Yuzu is OK with facing all that. For all Mei knows, Yuzu has a free bright future ahead of her if she is not with Mei, she could date any other girl or guy she wants. Heck Mei probably thinks Yuzu would be happier with Harumin, and she might not even be wrong lol Besides if she loves Yuzu, of course she would remove herself from Yuzu's life, because she would think, I don't want someone I love to go through all this.

So I guess my questioning is why people think that Mei has something to decide or that she doesn't know what she wants? Like, I don't think from the letter, she is in doubt about whether she wants to be with Yuzu or not. Of course she wants to be with Yuzu, she said she has "fallen in love to the point of no return". Does she need to make it any clearer? But she is trying to spare Yuzu from the burden of being with her. So that's why I think Yuzu needs to show her she is fine with suffering through it for their sake, and only then let Mei decide.

Jeezes, chill. I'm not saying Yuzu doesn't have her own stuff she needs to deal with, but nobody gets to have their cake and eat it too. She wants to be with Mei no? If she wants to be with Mei she needs to be stronger.

So what I am saying is that they both are immature teens. However Mei is in a situation that requires maturity and exceptional psychological resilience to handle, so it's no wonder she would take off and not think Yuzu is up for it even if Yuzu naively said she can.

She is wrong in the way she conveyed everything through a letter only, but not in wanting to remove such a burden from Yuzu's life.

last edited at Apr 6, 2018 5:16PM

Yuzu hasn't done anything out of ordinary other than overtly pursuing Mei, usually instigated into action by Mei herself (even her confession). Like...she is a cool girl and all but I am not sure why people put her on a pedestal and behave like Mei wronged her immensely by taking off and it's all on her now to fix the mess. In my opinion it's just because Yuzu is the character we read the thoughts of. If you read the manga, Mei always pushed for the relationship to happen as much as Yuzu did, not always with easily understood words (because she has issues) but with obvious physical gestures. And the same insecurities she has shown (like not wanting to be involved because they are stepsisters/women) Yuzu has also demonstrated and still does, even more than Mei herself.

The reason I say Yuzu is immature, is because she pushes the relationship forward in immature ways, like giving rings when they've just started dating (who gives rings within not even half a year of dating, are they in elementary school or something?), while at the same time making a big deal out of holding hands/kissing/their friends knowing they are dating. They live together and share a bed, but Yuzu only tries to have sex with Mei during a trip with all their friends around, after rejecting Mei's attempts when they were alone in the bedroom. I mean wtf lol She behaves as a normal 16 year old of course, but that's precisely the problem here.

If you were in Mei's place and dating Yuzu, considering you have to potentially throw away your family life, your family's reputation and so on down the drain for her, would you trust this kid with your future despite loving her? I would at least have some doubts, and based on how soft Yuzu is, I would doubt she can carry the burden unless she matures and removes the rose-tinted glasses about the world (which is probably what the time skip is for). Not saying that Mei taking off with just leaving a letter was ok, that was a coward move. But even if she had said it in person, so what? She probably doesn't really believe Yuzu can offer an alternative solution even if Yuzu said so, because Yuzu's behaviour already says otherwise. She had a crying attack because some girls she once knew talked bad stuff about girls kissing, how would she handle an entire society of wealthy people hating on her?

last edited at Apr 6, 2018 4:02PM

Ohh... oops, didn't know I was preaching to the choir about production locations--also don't know how often Canadians rant or rave about those two major entertainment cities. (-_-);;; It's easier to just go with an unfiltered info dump since this is the net.

We are more focused on ranting about real estate prices in Toronto and Vancouver, believe me lol

Mei is a clear byproduct of being socialized/raised by the older WW2 culture relatives that experienced a good portion, or lived through the tail-end... the fact that she is someone so very steeped in that sort of lagged generational tradition--with extreme adherence to it all--in 2013-2018, no less, is already weird. But it seems old money is forever ensconced in the worst kinds of insular, overly rigid traditions if they aren't part of the cutting edge industries; you have to be progressive to modernize, even if it's at a snail's pace. I know a general cultural etiquette that still exists is be considerate of others to the point of being able to read minds (borderline telepathic on some level--but far easier with the country-wide type of group-think/conformity), so it helps that Westernization is allowing for more overt aspects of expression, individuality, and emotional freedom. (It's always stunning--and painfully revealing--when older JP generations drop the aloof, polite facade to rail about how unmannered/uncouth/insubordinate their previously colonized minions are still behaving (like intolerable "barbarians/heathens/savages/uncultured/assbackwards peasants"/take your pick). Yikes. (Unless that person is in a position of power to do a lot of harm, it's a good thing those impromptu vented spleens mean little these days.) I personally like the character/dialogue ambiguity for (again) the accuracy of retaining the author's vision; Mei's mostly monotone VO seems consistent, and done so to magnify the careful death grip on emo, i.e., immense inner restraint, and the pointed depictions on paper (or the richer animated nuances) drop those million one subtle cues for how one should try to read her mind. Still an enormous challenge to read from the get-go in any medium, therefore all of those shocking/confounding actions demonstrated carry the most weight in revealing what's truly going on within.

I like the ambiguity in dialogue but it always seemed unrealistic, because 16-year-olds in my mind are not supposed to talk like that. However your explanation makes a lot of sense. The impression I have in the end is that in order for Mei to be with Yuzu she will have to give up so much, for this one person who she has dated for just a few months. I think she will have to be truly convinced that she is doing it for herself independently of Yuzu, so perhaps it's actually good that Yuzu backed off. Though I hope she at some point conveys she would support Mei through it all, which I don't think she has yet.

Also no one mentioned because maybe it's too dramatic for Citrus, but in another type of story Mei might try to kill herself if the burden gets too heavy. Certainly would not be out of character.

last edited at Apr 6, 2018 9:27AM

FTR, managed to sample the first ep... omg, ouch, the aesthetic is dated even for '97, especially since Escaflowne and Evangelion were airing around then. This would've been a complete turn-off eons ago, but for research purposes, I can accept it as an intentional artistic style to match the high fantasy shojo theme, and acclimation should be possible long before ep 39?? since the narrative potential is certainly there. Also, despite the protector-of-battered-lover(s) aspect having already worn out its welcome in a single ep, the overall pacing seems brisk enough to clear minor hurdles; according to some folks, it gets way better just before you want to quit, with a purportedly satisfying payoff, so we'll see what happens if I can make it to the finish line.

lol just have faith, I think you will like it. It's the most "meta" anime I've ever watched. Makes Evangelion seem pretentious and dumb in comparison (not that Eva isn't pretentious...xD).

The English sub makes the dialogue more ambiguous I think (probably more Japanese...), while the English dub makes it more straightforward...

How ambiguous?

It's hard to discern precisely Mei's intentions from the sub, while from the dub they make it clearer what she wants. I suspect it's cultural. For example in the sub Mei asks "What do you think of me?" in ep. 10, while in the dub from what I remember she literally asked if Yuzu likes her in a tone that's like "girl just spit it out already". The dub must be from the U.S of course, if it was Canadian the way we would ask is "I'm sorry, but do you happen to like me by any chance?" lol

Also, this is cool: http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-feature/2018/04/01/fall-in-love-with-these-citrus-real-life-locations

I do actually remember seeing stuff about Utena, but the Sailor Moon-like vibe warded off any inclinations for positive immersion or critique; never heard anyone in reality praising it either (pre-global-mainstream social media), so not sure how much it is a missed experience, or if it would be dated now. (Is it worth the time?)

In short: yes. It's incredible. You seem to be into art and this series is definitely art. I don't even know how to explain it beyond: ignore the initial "magical girl" vibes (they were clearly there as a hook because that's what was popular at the time) and just watch the whole thing till the end.

Also re: viewer response: Citrus is actually one of the few anime I've watched where dialogue translation is paramount for precise characterization--if used at all, so I don't know what non-native-language reviewers and most people are watching, or how they interpret the reinterpreted subs. But it helps to be able to glean a lot from the original spoken language to get a better sense of subbing biases--which can make or break characters, in this sense, i.e., Mei's the one most affected by wonky subs.

The English sub makes the dialogue more ambiguous I think (probably more Japanese...), while the English dub makes it more straightforward and the characters sound more like normal teenagers, which I liked (except Mei which turned out even more robotic). In particular Matsuri comes off less creepy and more "street", for example by calling Mei all the synonyms I know of for "slut" and asking Yuzu "so did you guys bang?" xD

But I also love the other aspects of physicality in the scenes; so much running, slamming into furniture, spazzing out, biking... hilarious finale with the flash-mob bridge chase: Mei was literally fleeing with panic written all over her face. (Kept thinking, "Is this really happening?!") I'm guessing it might be a universal concurrence that the anime can maybe trump the manga if it's done right; implementing the best kinds of changes.

The reactions of people who haven't read the manga about Mei were to me part of the fun as well lol There were pages upon pages on Crunchyroll of people discussing the sexual harassment early on and then all the outrage at her choosing to date Sara on a whim. I feel she is kinda like the low-key, modern day version of Himemiya Anthy from Utena. Where everybody loves to hate on the character because she is so ambiguously flawed as a human being, and because of that it makes people glimpse in her behaviour uncomfortable parts of themselves.

Um... durh: https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=22183

As I was saying about male sensibilities... and it explains the boob focuses. Also, a return to "Blue is the Warmest Color" as an example of what could go wrong; maybe it's best that they stick to the source material as much as possible if S2 ever tries to morph into an aesthetic trainwreck.

Hrm, perhaps that's not a likely scenario since he also storyboarded for Strawberry Panic, but I've never seen or read any of that.

Blue is the Warmest Color wasn't bad, except for the excessively long sex scene which caught me off-guard, especially as I decided to watch it during a date with a girl who didn't know me very well lol Oh the epic awkwardness. To this day I don't know why that whole scene was there.

Citrus Anime 3+/10. Only the first episode was good. Low budged advertisement for manga and nothing more.

Oh come on, that's only your opinion which I respect but definitely not what most people think. Go check the Crunchyroll ratings, 4.3/5 and super positive commentary. Lots of comments from people who never even watched yuri (some never even watched anime). It's not without faults but better than 80% of the romance crap out there, and I'm glad they made the show more accessible.

The manga, for me, focuses so much on Yuzu's emotions about Mei's crazy-making behaviour

Is this what you mean by the inconsistent writing? If so, I think it is something that can be managed with the minor reworks they've demonstrated so far. They have their own in-line aspects of crazy to inject, e.g., Himeko and Yuzu's frantic simultaneous praying at the Yasaka (Relationship) Shrine.

No, so actually that part of the manga is totally fine by me and the only thing that makes it so interesting, the characterization and character development. Being in Yuzu's mind/heart as an observer of Mei. But the plot itself is not good I find. The author's choice to introduce all these girls who are romantic rivals in one way or another is way too repetitive, especially if you consider other stuff could be done instead. For example, exploration of Mei's past, more focus on the Aihara family and how it operates, Yuzu's past, the fact that they are essentially from different social classes and how they adapt to that, etc etc. There are so many options and yet she chooses instead to add all these people to the story who don't have their own lives and whose sole purpose is to cause more interactions between Yuzu and Mei.

In fact, the reason why I guess Harumin is so loved is because she is the only one in the story who seems to have a life.

Well what I was trying to say is that I actually like the anime better, precisely because it lacks this extremely intense scene-by-scene emotional moments that you describe, and instead presents the story as more integrated with the real world and more like a normal love story (thanks to the "world-building" efforts I suspect).

The manga, for me, focuses so much on Yuzu's emotions about Mei's crazy-making behaviour that it feels less like you are reading a story about these 2 people and more like a virtual reality simulation of "let's experience falling in love with Mei as though we are Yuzu". Which of course is probably why people went bonkers with ch. 36. In a sense they are meant to feel Yuzu's feelings. And don't get me wrong, this is actually pretty cool and it's not every story that can do that, but the anime felt refreshing since it followed a different approach. And I think the fact that it showed the story as a normal love story instead has its own phenomenal importance, because it's awesome for LGBT representation in anime and that being normalized.

In other words: I see the fact that they made such efforts in the anime into making these characters like normal relatable teens by adding a lot of context around their lives as very positive, and perhaps a legitimate sign of change. And I suspect in a few years the anime will be remembered as one of the first (definitely the first I've seen) to show 2 girls in love in such a normal way, rather than in some way fetichized. Fetishizing lesbian relationships is what a lot of yuri works do in my opinion, as the ones I've watched are all about objectifying the relationship, where what's important is not the story and how the characters feel about each other, but rather producing either saccharine or lewd-like feelings in the viewer.

last edited at Mar 30, 2018 9:27PM