Forum › Posts by riverFlower
Really interesting premise. When I saw all the comments saying who the author was, I felt more iffy but I think I'll hold back my judgement. Hana can be a lot less innocent than she seems at first. The way she was trying to push those boundaries was a bit cringey. But I respect a story who can pull that sort of character off.
Waiting for more.
Wow this is old. Slightly less than a decade ago. It's aged well, I guess helped by the fact that nobody changes much in Touhou. Wriggle is beautiful here, and I love the idea of Flandre being scared of bugs, of so much life for her to destroy and overwhelm her with.
I won't disagree that there is odd morality at times. It sort of goes along with the 'everybody's weird in Touhou' rule that seems to exist because common sense doesn't exist in Gensokyo.
In canon Yukari abducts people from the Outside, who are "free game" for the human-eating Youkai, and the humans pretty much don't give a shit.
The vampire entry of Perfect Memento in Perfect Sense states in a footnote that those abducted people are "those whose deaths are of no consequence (suicidal, etc.)." I'm not sure I agree with what counts as people of no consequence, but it's the rationale for why this practice is okay; they're essentially people who are already marked for death, regardless of what Yukari does. Also, either because of the vampire contract or the spell card rules, youkai are actually not allowed to eat natives anymore, and I think the natives don't see outsiders as being the same as them.
Humans and Youkai are shown to be pretty anti-thetical to one another in canon, and Gensokyo's existence is predicated on their mutual antagonism.
They are? I would like to see examples of that, because everything I've seen indicates while their very natures might be different, they are far more cooperative now than ever, after the implementation of the spellcard rules. And while their natures are still different, they have become more and more like each other in Gensokyo. The PCB prologue hints at that, and it might be stated more explicitly elsewhere too.
About the second part, Gensokyo was separated from the Outside World because youkai were being forgotten by humans who put their faith not in gods or the supernatural but in science and rational thinking. The beginning of Gensokyo started less through mutual antagonism, and more as a desperate bid for survival. I will concede though that youkai need to eat humans/human fear to survive, and that necessity is fulfilled by antagonism, fighting each other, even if it's through nonlethal danmaku.
So it's not a perfectly happy peaceful world by any measure, but it is and has been described essentially as an utopia for the time being. Zounose likes to play up the human/youkai tension, which does still exist, but I think ZUN has focused just as much if not more on the Lunarians, on gods and faith, and the border between fantasy and reality.
last edited at Apr 3, 2018 10:33PM
Marisa's nonchalant about everything. Plus she hangs out with youkai all the time partly as a result of not wanting to live in the human village in the first place. I think she makes a good observer, if that's even the right way to put her role here.
I think I was just expecting more of a reaction to a human being devoured piece by piece, regardless of what sort of reaction that is. She's surprisingly passive here and I envision her as being a bit more bombastic and proactively taking action, because she's very straightforward and simple in that way. That's her defining trait in practically all of the character profiles, on the same level as having a "mania for collecting things". The way she was presented in Magic of Isolation rubbed me a bit in the wrong way for the same reason.
The reason she doesn't live in the human village is because of a fallout with her family, so it's not directly about not wanting to be around humans/preferring to be with youkai. She's not like Reimu either, who treats everybody the same. I would actually associate hanging out with youkai more with Reimu rather than Marisa, because that's a canon element where youkai seem to be attracted to Reimu. And the person Marisa actively seeks to and does hang out with the most is Reimu, a human.
In addition I think Marisa does give some preferential treatment to the idea of being human, with her insistence on being an ordinary magician. She might not particularly care about this random old man, just as she wouldn't care about any random youkai, but I would just expect more of a reaction of any sort, even if it was, "ah that's sort of gross" or "guess it was his time".
The youkai all using modern techniques to cook human meat and ignoring him unless attacked first is a nice contrast from the hyper-traditionalist "kill-em-all" mindset of the exterminator. The only youkai that seems to even match up to what he expected of them is Rumia, who just straight up attacked him.
Got to love Rumia's razor shark teeth.
Rumia's entrance was ironic because of his traditionalist mindset. All that time he'd been wandering around, fighting random youkai, trying to defeat them, and they all beat him and take a portion of his flesh as a prize. They leave him alive instead of killing him as they might have before. And then Rumia shows up, and he's completely caught off-guard, losing the worst to a bottom-tier youkai. His ideals which have sustained him for so long are now so useless he only stands a chance against the more 'civilized' youkai, who are willing to pity him. What a humiliating fall.
That's part of the point for this guy though. "Humans still resist. Look, even I'll keep on until my last breath..." His single-minded nature, unable and unwilling to let go of the border between humans and youkai. It's what leads to him being beaten up so terribly, because it's a self-fulfilling prophecy where he attacks youkai because he thinks they're bad and of course they attack him back, showing they're bad, but it also earns him a type of respect from them, because his fear is their ideal.
Now that he's gone, the youkai are weaker, and for better or worse, they've all accepted it.
From a writing standpoint, Zounose's capturing of finality is perfect.
I have to say though, I'm a bit creeped out by Marisa's total nonchalance. Even if it's more Reimu's job to uphold human ideals, I would have still thought Marisa would be more connected to humans than she is here. I think it's probably just Zounose's interpretation of her, because she's sort of the same in Magic of Isolation, where she is a magician before a human, when viewed from the outside.
last edited at Apr 3, 2018 2:40PM
A fairly decent concept (how human-youkai relationships have changed), but wrapped up in a lot of nonsense (food) that distracts from the main point
Food recipe stuff not thematically relevant but darn they're drawn well. They look delicious and are described in mouth-watering detail so I'll accept it. Also upon first read at least, the way those scenes are carried out add an element of uncertainty as to whether it is human meat or not. Definitely carefully prepared presentation.
Yukari's lines about how it's the fear that adds the flavor was perfectly placed. Quite a dramatic lead-up to strike the point that it's the end of an era.
I find it amusing that Yakumi laid the story out like a typical Touhou game with six stages. They also included the increasing story relevance and importance of characters present in the games which I liked. Decent framing narrative, showing the old man's view after each "boss".
One thing I wasn't sure about was whether Orin should have gotten to the soul first, because unless the exterminator had already been judged for hell in such a short time, he shouldn't have been her domain. Should have been the shinigami's. Also felt like Zounose used some pretty random characters who weren't all the most appropriate. Meiling and the DDC trio stick out the most. But, thinking about how they've presented Meiling in past doujins, I guess it's not that strange. And Sekibanki is an interesting case of human-youkai relations.
I really appreciate how Zounose always keeps Touhou themes in mind. They're not always what ZUN focuses on most, but they're natural extensions of canon, exploring how Gensokyo operates.
The extended discussion on visual storytelling subtlety was enjoyable, I'm glad this is one of the few places where such discussions can happen.
This story very often doesn’t work like that; readers have to triangulate, as it were... It’s not unique in that respect, and doing it isn’t especially complicated, but it does call for a slightly different kind of attention by readers than do many other apparently similar stories.
Despite how uncomplicated it is in theory, I think it is rare because portraying a character well is already difficult while using a consistent methodology, much less through splintered, contradictory messages. To portray that sort of emotional complexity requires mastery over your art and your characters and an ability to hit all the right notes of ambiguity inherent to real people.
Going to the latest chapter, it was so satisfying seeing the lines that have appeared before in their proper context, but still carrying the emotional weight from their first appearance. Like page 37, Touko's anguished monologue isn't given as much screen time as before, but the original visuals are hard to forget.
Yuu had all of the best moments here. Suggesting talking to A-chan's friends/family, the phone, asking for her favorite color of gerberas. I guess it comes from a certain impartiality of not having past definitions of A-chan.
I wonder what the last two pages mean. Touko is feeling positive enough to give herself a pep talk, but Yuu seems to be torn over how Touko's doing fine. God why is Yuu always looking at Touko's back? The day that changes will also be the day Yuu finally stops being afraid to catch up to her.
Dropped this after chapter 2. The writing felt awful.
If you dropped because it felt cliche and predictable, then I'd recommend continuing. That's what I thought, but it very much surprised me.
It is cliché but I actually dropped it because it is the opposite of predictable. I just don't get what kind of mood the author is trying to create. In chapter 2, Mishio goes, within a few pages, from collapsing on the floor, to kissing and making bedroom eyes to the MC, to being all blasé, to kissing her again, to having a laughing fit. Her behavior is too erratic and the manga doesn't establish any kind of mood so it's all just a pointless mess to me.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^Seconded to infinity.
Nara-sensei introduction is interesting. I wonder if she'll scout Touko after seeing her performance & that will give her a career path to work towards in the future instead of becoming her sister.
Like, becoming an actress? I hope not, because it doesn't fit her character. Touko is shy and doesn't like being in front of people.
This got me curious, what kind of jobs do you guys see each of the main cast (aside from Koyomi & the adults, of course) doing in the future?
I would see Sayaka going into some form of professional career. Business woman, doctor, lawyer, etc. any job requiring professional detachment but allows for care too. Considering her usual role during the elections, manager could be appropriate.
It's pretty weird for me to imagine Touko being an actor. I did see Nara-sensei as somebody who symbolically provided the last piece of the puzzle Touko needed to move on, but maybe not that literally. It's possible Touko would take an offer like that while she has no idea of what to do with her life, but long-term, I don't think it fits her. The entire story has been about discarding her masks. I think she could be a leader. Despite how much of her actions was intended to follow Mio's footsteps, I think she could be a true leader. Her full-hearted drive and conviction in getting what she wants shouldn't be underestimated. Or she may fully step back and decide she wants to become less prominent.
Yuu belongs in a nurturing field. Nurse, teacher, veterinarian, marine scientist? I now want to see Yuu become a marine scientist; that would be awesome. Librarian...? Don't remember her feelings about books / family store, maybe, but think she has stronger interests than those.
I was going to come up with ones for Toujima, Akira, and Maki too, but I realized it's only possible to pinpoint skills people have, and explicit interests they've demonstrated, so the exact job they get is a wild guess otherwise.
Yuu will always be a marine scientist in my mind. Unless Nakatani shows something even more fitting.
I don't know why, I have a real problem trying to understand what is going on, both visually and story-wise, I find it really confusing. Perhaps it's because I don't know the Touhou universe and characters pretty well, or perhaps I'm not reading it in the best conditions... It looks good and interesting though.
You'd need to have some familiarity with SA, UFO, TD, and DDC characters and events. Maybe ISC too. Most of the story is about ideas added on by the author, stories connected to amanojaku, so without that base it's even easier to get lost. The author doesn't go out of their way to make things extremely obvious but by the end I think it's clear what's been happening.
Something about the art's distinct, I haven't figured out what yet. Just the overall style, and something about the lines?
I got worried at the rape-y-ish scene, but it didn't bother me after it was clear that was just in Hoshikawa's imagination. She's kneeling when she's describing that, so not a threat at all. Not quite as funny as it could be. I've got high standards for comedy though lol in terms of how much it makes me laugh.
Subscribed anyway. Looks interesting.
I liked it. Page 147 I wish there had been a better transition to "but I already love you", because that part just felt too syrupy sweet, but Satoko's desire and Yumi's mature responses throughout helped the story feel real. Enough for me to keep my suspension of disbelief. Although I do wonder what happened to Yumi's apartment.
There is a dream-like quality to all of it. If I look a bit too closely, pieces will slide out of place. But something always re-orients them thematically, and so I think the story is a bit disjointed, but the single thread connecting everything is solid. Reminds me somewhat of my own writing.
I don't know if I should be angry or impressed. At least that explains the flatness behind the 'revelation'. I want to fucking punch Mishio though. And that's not a good thing.
This I consider to be worse writing than if the author had played every cliche straight. To use shock value as the driving force of a story, and mental health of all things, and purposefully misleading foreshadowing - I understand playing with readers using preconceptions, but not in this stupidly heavy-handed way. It's pulling the rug out from underneath because you can and not because there's any point to it. Honestly what is the point of this story?
last edited at Feb 3, 2018 4:51AM
Something else which stuck out to me was Touko saying she had made a selfish request publicly, to everyone involved. Another big change.
I expect to see the play happen. Because I expect that during the play, the "script" will change. Or even if nothing big like that happens, there must be meaning behind the premise for it to be worth spending time showing. Touko's parents being highlighted, and Nara-sensei being introduced likely bring together everyone connected to Mio.
The father I see as another character in need of healing/redemption from the past or (hopefully not) someone to find Yuu and Nanami kissing to provoke more typical yuri drama.
No offense but I think both of those scenarios are tropes that this story has never given any evidence to merit believing would happen. I take his statement that he's not upset at face value. The father's clearly worried about Touko. Chapter 19, he's the one telling her she doesn't need to follow Mio's footsteps. I feel there's an element of grief too, in this chapter, but it's sadness for Touko more than Mio. Like that sort of weird sadness where someone's doing something which might not be the best for them, and you understand why, though maybe not fully, and you get they think they have to do it, but you also don't want them to do it, and so you do what you can knowing it may be futile. And on top of that, what the other person is doing is a result of and tied to a painful memory. And it is your child this is happening too. A parent seeing their child react negatively to a new step-parent is the first example I think of. But the impetus isn't the new step-parent, so much as it is the child's pain underlying it. Seeing that, the parent may grieve too. And so Touko's father's grief is tied to the past and the present and centered on somebody who he has not been able to reach. It's a lot more logically laid out in my head but I don't want to bother spending more time organizing my thought process here.
Oh and back to Touko talking about making a selfish request, her ending statement on page 15 is one of the most honest and heartfelt things she's said to other people, as reflective of what she feels as well as indicative of her sense of community. Her abashed reaction to Sayaka's teasing supports that.
Well, I suspect that's a kiss happening in panel 4 of page 17.
I'd say it's highly unlikely. There's no way Yuu would do that in public, first of all, and second Touko wouldn't just go "right!" on the next page if that had happened.
Yuu has only ever initiated touching Touko when she feels the strongest and wants to impart that intensity to Touko. From what I can remember, chapter 22 is the first time she ever touches Touko (disregarding that time she tests Touko in chapter 3, during the election picture taking); she takes Touko's hand and moves closer. Touko's pretty surprised then too. Chapter 24, similar, Yuu leads her by the hand, and she's surprised. Chapter 28, my favorite one, Yuu clasping her hands as if she's the most precious thing there is. And now, this newest chapter, Yuu goes for the shoulders. :p The visible indicator of Yuu's growing care, willingness to act, and desire to be close.
The moment I read page 16, I thought about chapter 6 and Yuu sneakily asking Touko to come outside with her. What a vast difference there is, from then and now. From saying she did it because anybody would after seeing how fragile Touko was, to throwing all pretenses aside, naked concern in her words and her actions. The way she rushes towards Touko, the way she immediately says in quick succession, if she's okay, and then to calm down - that urge to comfort. I love it.
I guess my question being was Yuu telling her she isn't alone what she needed to hear at that moment or not.
I say it wasn't. But that didn't matter, because these were Yuu's selfish feelings. God I can't get over how much I love how worked up Yuu is. Everything she says on page 16 lacks all of the subtlety which might have been expected from her before, and for that reason, they are not what Touko needs to hear exactly, but they come from a place of love which Touko needs to realize exists. It's funny seeing how frantic she is. Maybe cause of how obvious she is.
If anybody random had said those things to Touko, she wouldn't have been convinced. But because it's Yuu, she believes her. Hence her "...Right!"
Then Touko runs off, Yuu watching her, and it is completely different from the last time something similar happened. First moment that comes to mind is chapter 5's last page. Very nice parallel. Yuu's head is practically tilted at the same angle.
I would sacrifice a kidney to have Nakatani's ability to write choices, actions, expressions of a character that are true to them and as unexpected as real humans' are. I still haven't figured out how she does it, but it's impossible to say, "I know what this person's going to do next." Some authors keep things moving by keeping things about a character hidden and slowly dribbling out information. The same uncertainty and feeling of suspense and surprise exists in those stories, but not on re-read in my opinion. But this story is different because these characters defy expectation over and over yet feel completely cohesive. We have everything we could ever need to know about them up to each present point, yet it's still not possible to know how they'll react in the future. Fan-worshipping!!!
Okay I'm done. This chapter is the definite turnaround point of upwards momentum. Like when v > 0 on a parabolic curve for speed. And chapter 28 was when a > 0. I'm satisfied with it.
AHHHHHHH EXCITEMENT.
Even though it was a tease and I thought it was starting. Archivally reading, I think it is good pacing so I'll endure the torturous wait.
But I love how far we've come, that for the first time it's possible to entertain the possibility Touko will be okay with failure or being less than perfect. Sayaka continues to earn my respect.
... Well, that was an unexpected turn from light-hearted to serious drama.
BTW, how do you distinguish between "official manga" and "unofficial doujinshi" when it comes to Touhou?
Everything is unofficial doujinshi except the ones whose author is ZUN.
last edited at Jan 30, 2018 2:58PM
Chapter 5 and onwards redeemed the story for me. Now I'm expecting that it won't fall into a pure lover-saves-depressed-person trope. Greatly commend the explicit depiction of self harm. That's not common in any form of media. Loved chapter 6's poetic metaphor. Still feel like pieces are missing, however, even after reading chapter 7. Character motivations not clearly laid out. Specifically Mishio's. Going to have to draw a parallel between this and YagaKime. Seriously they're so similar. Because of stuff, these types of stories always make me contemplative.
...
There isn't quite as much complexity. They're relatively straightforward, and I don't know for example, how Ena's ambivalence will be resolved specifically, but I guess after the suicide revelation shock value wore off, I mentally rewrote my ideas of the characters into a new, but still predictable, form. Maybe that's not a fair evaluation. Somehow the more I think about them, the blanker they become. Rika-sensei killed herself, Mishio now has abandonment issues on top of her prior isolation, Ena has been challenged to figure out what love is; so what? What is the purpose of all this? Why should I care? It's like digging one layer deeper and hitting bedrock. Like that's it? They don't feel real. Darn. Guess I take back what I said about it defying my expectations. Feels very unsatisfying after the novelty wears off.
I'm enjoying this and can't wait for more chapters.
Positive that earning the heart of the girl is not figurative in any sense. Waiting for "aiming for false love" to be clarified, pretty sure it's something to do with the game's way of earning people's hearts. I quite like this premise. Not 100% sure past and present twin-ponytail girls are the same person, but probably. The ranking system has to be explained at some point. It seems to have something to do with a person's availability.
I like how turning somebody into a blank, emotionless wall could be detrimental to their emotional well being. Who knew. Waiting to see what comes of the last four panels. Seems pigtail girl has her heart, or locked it at least. Latter seems more likely based on game rules. Principle of the universe related to feeling pain and love? Willingness to feel them ie. openness? And freeing her is to free her from that principle of humanness. Someone who had lost their heart for real would either be a priceless, unclearable treasure or an glitchy, invalid target.
And wth is up with the black sun/hole? What happens if the overriding principle is forced to terminate? That's pretty creepy, to have programmed what amounts to a firewall into or over another person's being.
I'm looking forward to a deconstruction of the idea of love in romance games.
https://bookwalker.jp/dea22ada9b-2162-4787-a838-cdc92b536dcd/
Let's buy itこの作品は、日本国内のみでの販売となります。
購入後は海外でもダウンロードが可能です。
Based on google translate, the second sentence talks about how after being bought it can be downloaded overseas? But still only available within Japan? Think something was lost in translation. Just based on kanji I thought the second sentence might say it could be bought overseas.
last edited at Jan 29, 2018 5:07PM