• Chapter 5 directly invokes the word “pedophilia,” as the much more sexually explicit doujins never did, but also shows Mel nearly nude and depicts the Master checking out Mel’s private parts.

In the scene where Master looks at Mel naked, she doesn't appear to be bothered by seeing her, getting neither excited nor flustered. And her next thought is that Mel might be too cold at night from wearing pajamas that don't properly cover her. I think this is pretty much the kind of reaction you'd expect of a parent seeing their child partially naked. Without the context of the other works, I'd probably see this as all perfectly innocent. Also, with the addition of the end of volume extra, it seems that Mist accusing Master of being a child molester is just a running gag now. It's hard to tell how seriously we're supposed to take any of this.

About your larger point, Itou Hachi does seem to be addressing some larger themes in this version, first with the birds and the story about Master's past, and now with the abandoned dog. But in the end, there are still far more questions than answers, and the attempts to explore these themes are so far nothing really more than bare mentions or references. They function more as means to drive personal drama between Mel and Master than as grand statements about interspecies relations, and are completely worthless when it comes to establishing the details of how this world works.

It's hard to tell what's deliberate and meaningful versus what's there just because it's necessary to make the premise work. It's fun to wonder about this stuff, and it can be really funny when an author unintentionally (or perhaps intentionally?) creates some unfortunate implications in their cutesy fictional world. But overall, I'm certain I've spent way too much time thinking about this.

Ultimately, as in most stories like this one, the whole premise is demolished by the author's failure to make the main character ugly. You can't just draw a normal girl, put some glasses on her, and call her ugly. Now I have to just pretend that this character, who obviously isn't ugly, is. When the author of a visual medium forces you to ignore your own eyes in order to buy into their story, they have completely failed.

^Barring some explicit statement from Itou Hachi on the matter, I don’t get the sense that adherence to strict standards about continuity or “canonicity” is a very high priority with this author.

Even if some scenes get repeated, reworked, or echoed among the series, I’d guess that to the author all the scenes of these characters that she draws “really happen” to (more or less) the same degree.

EDIT FOR CLARITY: I don’t think it’s unreasonable to read the current series as if it’s a completely fresh start with no relation to the previous ones, nor is it unreasonable to imagine all the “Master & Mel” pieces as part of one big (somewhat shaggy around the edges) story. What I do think is untenable without more specific evidence from the author or some other official source is to insist that only one of those things is certainly true.

That's sort of my thinking at this point. It could be that this particular story happens before that one. Or it could be the author messing around with different ideas about the same characters. Maybe the rest of this series will clarify the extent of their relationship, or maybe it'll leave things open. Either way it's not really that important to me.

BUT: I will admit, I kind of went, "Oh, come on," when she started losing her power. Because, like, they framed it as a scary thing that the audience should be worried about... but, like, it's super obvious that the reason she's losing it is because she's growing out of it. I like that she did grow out of it, but I don't like the way they tried to frame it as a scary thing even though the plot twist that it was actually a good thing was super predictable.

I didn't get the impression that it was framed as something the audience should be worried about. They framed it as something Moritani was worried about. Like you say, it was obvious to the reader that she was losing the power because she no longer needed it. But to her, she was losing the only thing in her life that gave her any sense of security.

I highly advise against translating this into English. Irua herself asked specifically not to do so, so translating it would mean directly giving the finger to one of the yuri artists our community relies on and generally appreciates and respects. What we do is already ethically questionable, but that would be, and is, a clearly ethical dick move. Ominously, the third one has not shown up at comiket as originally planned.

That being said, we have the scans and are planning on reaching out to Irua after time has passed for actual permission on our end.

What we do is stealing. It seems pretty strange to say, "I'm fine stealing from people unless they ask me not to steal from them." Obviously no one wants to be stolen from. I'd say you have to presume that what we're doing is wrong unless some author specifically states they're okay with it, not the other way around.

If an author contacted me and asked me to stop translating their work, I'd of course feel really bad. But I don't think that bad feeling is because what I do somehow becomes worse when I'm asked not to. It's just because it was wrong all along and I'm being forced to personally confront it.

The conversation makes perfect sense if only the overly-excitable one doesn't know and the other two do.

No, neither Asumi nor Kumako (the two in the room with Chidori at the start) know. Asumi clearly doesn't know or she wouldn't be asking Chidori about getting a boyfriend in the first place. And look at how excited Kumako is when Asumi brings it up, and also how disappointed she is once Chidori says she's not interested in getting a boyfriend. Plus, she's the one who says that Nanoha liked a boy in the past, there's no way she'd bring that up if she knew the two of them were dating.

It's possible that Rei-chin knows. Of the three, she seems to be the one most able to keep a secret, and also the most perceptive. Her reaction on page 10 is somewhat suggestive. But there's really no evidence either way for her. We see rarely interactions between Nanoha or Chidori with any of the three one-on-one, and we never see anything from their perspective.

last edited at Jul 21, 2018 10:08PM

There's no way they know. The entire conversation in chapter 13 makes no fucking sense if those three know. No one would act that way.

last edited at Jul 21, 2018 6:43PM

Kinda get the feeling that their friends would be okay with them dating each other, so the whole secrecy thing is starting to just feel arbitrary.

I don't think they're afraid of being shunned or bullied or whatever. Look at what happened when Nanoha just mentioned that she had someone she liked: she was bombarded with questions. If Rei-chin, Asumi, and Kumako knew they were dating, then they'd never hear the end of it. Nanoha and Chidori already blush so easily. If they were subjected to constant jokes, questions, and teasing from their friends, they would be in a state of perpetual embarrassment.

last edited at Jul 21, 2018 2:29PM

Dude, it fucking says porn in the title.

In fact, the title is such a perfect description of the contents that it'd be difficult to imagine a better one.

last edited at Jul 19, 2018 8:40PM

It's often the case that the serialized work operates on a different track than the oneshot or doujin that preceded it. Even if all the characters are the same and some events are repeated, there tend to be numerous inconsistencies. For an example in this, the treatment of the kidnapper. That feels like a recycled idea that was portrayed two different ways. I don't think there could be a world where Master rushes back to the house to make sure Mel's safe one day, and Mel leaves Master's sight in town and gets kidnapped another. It just doesn't make sense.

The problem (for me) is that their relationship in the manga is too awkward, at least so far. They're quite formal with each other, and distant. When they go to be together at night, Master kisses Mel on the forehead. Their "special relationship" from the doujin just doesn't feel like it fits. Maybe that's something that happens at some point in the future after they grow closer, but it feels disjointed enough so far that I don't want to make assumptions.

I know, but I'm pretty sure in Itou's mind they are totally fucking like that. We just don't see it. So I wouldn't be surprised if they consider it as something that do happen in canon of the story. I was more surprised of distinction between canon of doujins and published version. I had no idea there is some significant difference between them (as I barely read Itou's work).

If you read this one, you'll see an obvious difference. In the doujin version, it's very clear that the characters have a romantic, if not sexual, relationship. On the other hand, the manga version is just as pure as other Itou Hachi works.

I really don’t think the story structure has much to do with making the series accessible to readers starting in the middle—although not all the characters in the side arcs recur, some do so pretty regularly, sometimes at long intervals, and that can be confusing to longtime readers let alone new ones. I think this series really is an attempt at building an overall story using many short limited-arc stories within a single longer (but still not open-ended) romance arc.

I think you're probably right. This definitely isn't "episodic" in the sense that you can start at any chapter and still enjoy it. For one thing, if you picked a chapter at random, you'd probably only have a 1-in-4 chance of being at the start of any one little arc, and if you guess wrong you'll be lost in a short story that is itself lost in a longer story. And if you luck out and start at the beginning of an arc, or if you for some reason just keep reading anyways, you'd quickly realize that the main characters of the larger story have a history that you've completely missed. And as bewildering the tangled mess of characters is to me, at least I can recognize pretty quickly if someone is important to the current story. I don't even want to imagine how crazy it would drive me to start this in the middle and try to sort out who's who.

Plus, all the little arcs do have something in common. It seems that every character is lying to herself, and she realizes the lie through interactions with a foil, who is herself hiding something. Then they become romantic partners. This isn't an uncommon structure for a romance, but the fact that basically all of the stories fit together like this lends a sort thematic resonance.

It certainly feels like we're approaching the ending, or at least the resolution of the central conflict. In the pattern of all the smaller arcs, Ayaka is reaching the point of self-acceptance, so all's left to wrap up is her relationship with Yurine, which is making fast progress.

I think I'd buy this being canon in the doujin version of Master and Me, but it just doesn't fit with their relationship in the published version. Though maybe it could happen if some large amount of time passes and their relationship changes.

As for the title, I think it should be changed to "Abandon All Hope of Salvation, Call a Criminal Attorney, and Barricade Your Home from the Cops Before Clicking on This"

That's pretty clear, right?

I want to believe that their friends weren't being malicious when they said they wanted to go tease them. I think it's less "Let's go bully those disgusting lesbians" and more "Let's tease that cute couple and watch them be adorkably in love." There's a difference between bullying those deemed weak/different and teasing those deemed cute and adorable. With that said, it could still have been out of malice for all I know. It's just that it seems plainly obvious they were all happy that the two girls next door hooked up and simply wanted to lightly tease the new couple.

Edit: Also, the fact that it clearly says "excited" in the same panel as one of the girls giving the thumbs up would suggest it's a good thing that it happened and that they wholly support it.

It's what you think it is. I'm very certain that they're talking about playfully teasing a friend who just started going out with her crush, not tormenting her because they hate lesbians.

Chidori and Nanoha decided to keep their relationship a secret not because they're afraid of being shunned, but because they're too shy to handle the good-natured ribbing. I imaging they'd be constantly paralyzed by embarrassment if Rei-chin, Asumi, and Kumako ever found out.

last edited at Jul 19, 2018 2:23PM

You know, up until the OneeLoli series, I'd never gotten any kind of sexual vibes from Itou Hachi's work. You'd think if this was her thing it'd bleed over into her other work more, but those are always such pure relationships that it just seemed fine, no matter the age gap. I mean hell, even the works about an adult married couple don't have anything more than a chaste kiss.

last edited at Jul 19, 2018 12:09AM

My one disappointment with the anime (besides the flash-forward at the beginning) is that they haven't really captured the eyes. The way that characters' pupils sometimes look like they were scribbled on with a thick pen, with those gaps and lumpy edges, is one of my favorite parts of the art.

As I said, I too have trouble keeping the side characters straight and remembering which arc comes where, and I freely admit to being a bit annoyed whenever we switch away from a meaty AyaYuri segment to some pair of people we’ve never seen before.

On the other hand, there’s a (strong) case to be made that the work as a whole is much better and more substantial (in more than just bulk) than it would have been with the usual exclusive focus on the main two characters. But I’m not going to make that case right now.

I just want to ask if there have been any other manga (yuri or otherwise) with a similar structure, centering on a romantic couple but including significant but limited arcs on a variety of other couples.

(I know there are plenty of works with an A and a B couple, and sometimes even more than a few more, but I mean with so many other couples that get developed at some length and then perhaps dropped entirely, so they’re not really subplots, and they’re too extended to be digressions.)

It’s certainly an unusual story structure, but I’m wondering if it’s actually unique, at least in manga.

(Again, there’s a part of my brain that wants AyaYuri and nothing else, but that’s never been what this series is. And I like this series.)

Personally, I'm happy to read the side stories. I can at least remember them while they're going on, and they're nice little short stories that develop different kinds of relationships but touch similar themes. I think I prefer the series the way it is now over some hypothetical version where it was just the main two. My only problem is when they're brought up again many chapters later.

As for other manga like this... the only things that come to mind are things like Virgins Empire, and Tsurezure Children, romance/comedy manga with a large cast of recurring characters. But I think those are much different, since they're comedy gag manga and don't have anywhere near the same depth as the different stories here. Maybe 14-sai no Koi? But I think the difference is that in Kiss and a White Lily the side couples have their own arcs that fully develop over a few chapters and then are basically never really brought up again (except in very brief interactions with the main characters). In similar series, newly introduced characters are integrated into the ongoing plot and appear again and again.

In some ways, this feels like a collection of short stories that connect mainly through the setting and themes, like The Martian Chronicles.

last edited at Jul 17, 2018 2:24AM

one thing that wasn't too clear that makes me curious, if the father in law died in that car crash too...what's the likelihood her parents committed suicide and took him down with them to atone? awfully coincidental that they all died together, don't you think?

They were all going to the ceremony, perhaps they were walking or driving together, or just happened to show up at the same spot. Not much of a coincidence when three people who know each other, heading to the same destination, are in the same place at the same time.

And your theory doesn't really make sense—Yuuna's parents had just told her that they'd take her back into their house. Why the hell would they want to kill the father-in-law? How would that help Yuuna at all? Why would they think that would help them atone?

Honestly, of the four people who completely fucked over Yuuna's life, the father-in-law was the least responsible. Sure, he was a slimy piece of shit, but compared to her parents' betrayal, he actually was a positive impact on her life. He paid her living expenses and kept his son away from her. That's more than her parents did after she was raped. Ruining her life even more by killing a guy who wasn't even as bad as them... I don't think anyone, even her awful parents, could imagine that would count as "atonement".

last edited at Jul 16, 2018 2:53PM

I too would be lost without Lyendith’s chart, and I can rarely remember more than one name of any given pair or triad, so I think of them with plot tags, and the drawing style has changed some so I’m not 100% sure, but, without re-reading the whole thing looking for clues in the hair and clothes, my guess:

Front: Moe & Mizuki (aka The Actual Lesbians)
Next: Towako & Yukina (aka The Ones Bent Out of Shape About the Roses)
Next: Hikari & Nagisa (aka The Student Council Tsunderes)
Totally just guessing the last one is Haine (aka The Surprisingly Small Age-Gap Incest one)

That seems like a more systematic approach than mine. I just reread the whole thing every 5-10 chapters released. You'd think I'd remember some of them from reading each one 2-6 times, but I just vaguely remember the controversy in each arc and completely forget the characters' names and faces.

I think this every chapter, but even more so this time when it showed that line up of "special relationships":

who the hell are all these people? I've completely forgotten almost all of the side characters. Again.

How so? Never ever had any problems with ebooks on amazon. And I have hundreds of them.

Well, I'm not sure about you, but for some regions or for some people amazon.jp will refuse to sell ebooks unless you have an address in Japan. It's fairly easy to get one, but it is a couple steps more complicated than ordering physical books.

Anybody knows if I can buy the manga's volume? If so, where?

You can buy them on amazon.jp. Amazon's very simple if you want the paper books, and somewhat more complicated if you want the ebooks.

its pretty interesting seeing everyone jump on nikaidou for being a cheating lying skank while ignoring the dead-fish eyes she had when she had to return home.

Can't speak for everyone else, but I'm not saying she is a cheating lying skank, I'm just using that as a hypothetical; even if Nikaidou were as awful as Kyou thinks she is, this still wouldn't give Kyou the moral authority to decide Kurumi's relationships for her.

Clearly Nikaidou's got some shit going on in her life.

However, that brings up another issue (though it probably doesn't have much to do with this manga): everyone has their circumstances and their struggles. The worst, most awful person you know certainly feels pain sometimes. Maybe something really bad happened to them. But that doesn't change the fact that they're awful to you. There's this mindset in a lot of manga (and really, in all kinds of romance stories) that as long as someone's behavior is rooted in personal suffering, it's somehow excusable. They should be pitied, or treated with empathy, and given leeway, or, on the extreme end, they should be "cured" with the power of love. You owe it to them to stay by their side.

But in the real world, that's the attitude that leads to people getting stuck in really unpleasant or even abusive relationships. In real life, you should know when to cut and run. I still really enjoy lots of manga with these kinds of relationships, like the works of Momono Moto. But if I knew someone in the situation of some of those characters, I would suggest that they get the fuck out while they can.

last edited at Jul 15, 2018 7:53AM

Personally, I'm super excited for Mitsuboshi running into the Aunt. It's promising to be quite a ride.

Shouko/Sato (Apparently the "I love you" might have been platonic :c ...Also Sato murdered her)

Yeah, I think it was platonic. Daisuki can be used for both romantic and non-romantic love.

And if you look at everything else Shouko does throughout the series, she's clearly heterosexual. She was the one trying to drag Satou back to their pastime of going out to find guys to fuck. And she was always wishing for her "prince" to find her. And it seems like she was falling in love with Asahi.

That's not conclusive, since she could still have been sexually attracted to women as well as all that, but she never shows that kind of interest in Satou. She clearly says that Satou is the best friend she's ever had and the only person she can show her true self to. That seems like a pretty good explanation for her use of "I love you".

So I'd say the likelihood of Shouko having romantic feelings towards Satou is low.

last edited at Jul 14, 2018 9:41PM

I really hope it doesn't turn into one of those situations where the best friend who is 100% right is treated as being wrong because love and the main character being a moron. Just once I'd like to see a story where the main character realizes the best friend side character is right and leaves their love interest to be actually happy.

I don't know if you can even be "right" or "wrong" in a situation like this. Clearly Kyou is worried about Kurumi, and genuinely wants her to be happy. But that doesn't give her the right to have Kurumi return her feelings. Being in Kyou's position is probably incredibly unpleasant, but the only one who can decide who Kurumi loves is Kurumi herself, and she seems pretty set on Nikaidou.

Even if Nikaidou is a cheating, lying skank, Kyou can't decide for Kurumi to leave her.