By staying with a Sumin-Sunji endgame long after they had made Seju the most interesting character, the authors doomed themselves to what turned out to be a whole series of unsatisfactory outcomes.

This is literally all that needs to be said about this series. Amen.

last edited at Feb 10, 2020 8:16PM

lol gotta create an account to say this: some of you seriously need to grow up. The message of this story is to accept the reality and move on from whatever you experienced in the past.

Fair enough if that had been the message of the story. But in reality, the story had no clear message: 100+ chapters of Seju and Sumin interacting with really strong signs they were bitter at each other but still loving each other (as admitted by Sumin herself), with (more than) half of those chapters being essentially flashbacks showing how their relationship ran deep.

And then the solution we are given, the supposed "accept reality and move on" solution, is 2 slot-in gfs that behave as very unrealistic human beings, accepting all their flaws. I mean...what? It just makes no sense and seems complete fantasy, especially in light of the fact that such 2 flawed human beings as Seju and Sumin would carry their problems and screw up any new relationships they have unless they actually fixed themselves. With Seju, at least that was (badly) depicted, although Won still has no personality; with Sumin, not even that. The chance that she would work out with Sungji, unless Sungji is a doormat (which she is) is less than zero.

That's why I'm saying the only lesson that can be possibly drawn from the story is: if the relationship that you actually care about doesn't work out due to your flaws, the solution is to find a new doormat partner who will just eat it all up.

last edited at Feb 10, 2020 7:11AM

lol gotta create an account to say this: some of you seriously need to grow up. The message of this story is to accept the reality and move on from whatever you experienced in the past

Wow, now that you mentioned it I suddenly start liking the story. Thanks for giving us your lights and helping us see the story from a perspective we never thought existed!

Is that well-placed sarcasm?

Also neither Seju or Sumin really felt like they learnt any life lessons by the end of it.

The moral of the story is actually very depressing: it's pretty much saying that if you made mistakes in life you are just screwed. You can't really change and your relationship is doomed, unless you find a doormat new partner to fill in that emptiness. Yikes.

Guys I’m not sad just because Sumin and Seju is not an endgame. I’m sad because Sumin wanted to go separate, in a way of giving up a 17 years together. Seju is a huge part of your life, as a friend, lover, and someone who supported you in your worst times.
Yeah Sumin then again went back to Seju’s company but Seju left it.
Just.. why?

Because the author sucks and said so. We all know Seju and Sumin were the logical endgame if the story was good, but it was good only accidentally, for a short period of time. If you go back 500 pages of discussion here, that's pretty much the conclusion.

It’s so painful

My advice is for you to move on, this manhwa is a trap. If you want something also mature and with an ending that actually makes sense: Girl in the Birdcage.

last edited at Feb 8, 2020 9:05PM

So the writer likes Sumin while the artist likes Seju? That explains a lot...I felt like the storywriting was zig-zagging between being for adults with Seju and Sumin as protagonists; and being for teens with Sumin as "center of the universe" and Sungji as the standard perfect love interest.

last edited at Feb 8, 2020 12:45PM

Yeah, even Chong's dad is a pretty terrible and useless person. Also, they aren't terrible in an unrealistic way either, I can actually see how guys in old times would be not too far off from this because of the culture.

The scene where the son beats up his own wife and then calls it love was one of the most disturbing in the series so far.

This story had such a garbage ending. Was the black-haired girl Sumin supposed to be the main character? :-/ She has like zero charisma and didn't even develop much during the series. Seju was much better, the author seemed very confused about storytelling direction here.

Another story that for some reason doesn't have a thread here, even though it's ridiculously well done and the perfect mix between dark and romantic themes.

At times I wonder if Dynasty folks are really more about the boring high school girls in love...

Anyway, this series is on Lezhin and also for free in a bunch of other sites. If anyone wants to talk to me about it I'd be happy!

I agree with this conclusion. But the thing I find weird is that she would be trying to win Uta back for the wrong reasons. I don't think she loves Uta romantically, she is just emotionally dependent on her. I mean, could that be considered healthy? It would be best if she learns to stand on her own, and then, later on, decides on her own that she loves Uta, rather than out of desperation.

"Wrong reasons", and what is healthy can be rather context specific. Kaoru's needs aren't unreasonable - she isn't demanding constant attention/affirmation/compliments, or demanding Uta drop everything to attend to her, she just needs regular social contact & someone to "be there" when she is feeling low. She seems to be able to handle a day or two, it was long unexpected delays that seemed to be getting to her (and case-by-case relationship drama back when she was at school)... a lot of people "need" social contact at this level. The idea that everyone should be able to stand "alone against the world" is BS, humans are a social species (often it is just a storytelling technique - a way to "show" independence). But I do get the feeling if Kaoru left Reiichi her emotional support needs would actually decrease a lot, since his unreliability seems to cause a lot of her crises.

It is important to be aware of how you interact with others, and try to keep things healthy and balanced. Uta liked being there for Kaoru, her only problem was the pain/frustration of not being able to have more. Obviously Kaoru's initial attempt to get Uta to just deny her feelings was a selfish impulse, but longer term it is not unusual for people to re-evaluate their relationships when faced with change. Fear of loss can show us just how deeply we care about someone. She may come to the conclusion that her feelings aren't that far removed from romantic love.

I wouldn't put it past her to behave a little badly in the first instance if she is lonely/panicking (she already has, but maybe for a bit longer), but in the overall feelings are mutable and sometimes there isn't that much difference between "kinds" of love (in either direction). Cynically faking feelings to get Uta back, or trying to trap her back into the way things were would be bad, but pushing a bit trying to find a compromise, or re-framing her already intense love and "leaning in" to the romantic aspect instead of away from it could be healthy. Equally Uta may decide her platonic desire to care for Kaoru trumps her romantic feelings, and find a way to deal.

A plausible first conversion would be telling Uta how lonely she has been, how much she misses her and how much she means to her, with some apology and thanks thrown in... which could be seen as emotional blackmail, but on the other hand is basically the same as Uta did to her (dumping a load of inconvenient feelings).

I think the main reason for a break, leaving Reiichi some time before anything happens with Uta, is back to story telling again - it would make it clear that she left Reiichi for herself, because the marriage failed, not simply to "upgrade" (also avoid casting Uta as a homewrecker).

This is a brilliant analysis, kudos to you seriously

Yeah this story has turned extremely frustrating. So many underutilized characters.

I mean, he's the only constant in Kaoru's life after her mom dies, so he has that going for him.

And he’s got a cute, smart, and reliable little sister, which brings us full circle to the initial question, “Who or what is this series actually about?”

I have a feeling the message of these last few chapters has been that the thing Kaoru most loved about Reiichi was Uta.

Up until the recent Kaoru focus the series has been very tightly focused on Uta - other character's stories are only there because they are being seen by or recounted to Uta and are providing a context for forming her strategy for dealing with her feelings (and also helping the reader understand her actions). Without all the context Uta's decision to confess and to basically end her sisterly relationship with Kaoru would have seemed random or selfish.

Now the story has been giving more attention to Kaoru (which isn't really off target - Uta is the central character, but Uta's feelings for Kaoru are the central theme). You can see it in this comment section, up until now people didn't really understand Kaoru's motivations or her relationship to Reiichi (and Uta). Finally in the flashback chapters weren't actually Uta free: she is right there supporting Kaoru.

We've learned a lot
* Kaoru isn't as helpless as she might seem, she was quite self sufficient at home due to her mother working long hours
* Uta was supporting Kaoru long before she had a meaningful relationship with Reiichi, ironically Uta probably gave her the strength to keep pursuing him as long as she did.
* How one sided Kaoru's pursuit of Reiichi was - we've had other characters mention it, but "telling" didn't really do it justice. He barely noticed she was alive until her mother died.
* Kaoru's relationship with Risako is even more complex than we saw in the present (I will leave that for another post).

From a storytelling perspective all this info is likely to come into play, both giving us a better understanding of where characters are and their decisions in the coming chapters.

It is quite likely Kaoru is about to do something that might seem crazy or arbitary without the background. Her connection to Uta runs very deep. Kaoru clearly had very a lonely home life and Uta was basically her only emotional support. It is likely she pursued Reiichi because she associated him, through his family, with family and emotional security - except it turned out his parents are a train-wreck and Reiichi is a flake. (Not exactly selfish - it was clear from the start Kaoru wanted to "be there" for Uta in return)

Uta didn't do it deliberately, but when she made her confession, and refused to "go back" to being sisters she basically set up a situation where Kaoru may feel she has to choose. If Kaoru has just realised that the only thing she really wanted from her marriage was Uta, she is setup to make a choice no one is expecting. She will probably try to win Uta back, beg, confess or maybe even try to seduce her.

I agree with this conclusion. But the thing I find weird is that she would be trying to win Uta back for the wrong reasons. I don't think she loves Uta romantically, she is just emotionally dependent on her. I mean, could that be considered healthy? It would be best if she learns to stand on her own, and then, later on, decides on her own that she loves Uta, rather than out of desperation.

In summary I'm feeling pretty exited about what might happen post flashback.

As for her lying about meeting with Reiichi, I don't think we have enough information to know what's going on. It seems pretty unlikely they were actually having an affair, which raises questions about why she lied. Personally, I suspect pg. 21 might be the answer. The last time she pretended to be in a relationship with Reiichi it blew up in her face, so this time she wanted to pretend she had no contact with him whatsoever, so Kaoru wouldn't be mad at her. The idea that Kaoru might find out she was lying probably didn't even enter her head, assuming the whole thing wasn't entirely spur of the moment and it got any thought at all. After that, it was just more flailing when she got caught out.

A part of me wants to say she lied because she didn't want Kaoru to misunderstand and think something did happen between her and Reiichi but another part of me wants to say she's messing with her and is cheating with Reiichi. The part of me that believes the later keeps looking back to her conversation with Uta and her giving Uta Kaoru's phone knowing Kaoru would give it to her. Why lie when she knows Uta probably told Kaoru she got the phone from her?

The real reason is that the story is crap but the author needs us to keep coming back for more.

last edited at Jan 19, 2020 4:25PM

Citrus would be a much better story if it was a love line. Matsuri -> Harumin -> Yuzu -> Mei. 4some!

I wonder if in the real world women do try to do stuff like that. You have A, B and C. A loves B, B loves C. So A dates C to make B forget C, and then A drops C to be with B. Can this ever happen for real?

Harumin is a goddess xD The bff that's impossible to not fall in love with.

Oh god I saw ch 30. Kaoru has an emotional dependence on Uta. Run, Uta, run

I don't understand. Who is the editor for Citrus, and what are they thinking? Pray tell, why would they prefer to show these 2 unknown girls rather than HaruMatsu?

This is also my favourite yuri (possibly manga/manhwa in general). It's absurdly well done. I am buying it on TappyToon happily. And there is a translation in Portuguese also ongoing, for any Portuguese/Spanish speakers out there. Currently on ch 67: https://yuri.live/manga/her-shim-cheong-seri-bi-wan/episodio-00/

After the wonderful Utena that I will never forget, Chong is probably the character that I relate to the most in all of yuri history lol

Also initially I thought maybe the story was going to be unrealistic but no. I am surprised at how good the writing is. I think it should become a movie.

For some reason I am cheering now for a Kaoru/Risako ending, even though I know it's impossible. Kaoru/Uta is too awk at this point.

Okay so how come there are no threads that I can find here about this incredible manhwa?