(but I doubt that in manga MC as trans guy will really be the case if it is yuri ending)

We don't know that yet? I see this isn't tagged as either yuri or het, probably because mods are waiting to see which way this story goes.

I also think the same. What is the most interesting detail, we ALREADY have yuri (what we see is two girls are kissing)
And why we don't have tag yuri? Because of not knowing exact gender identity of MC for now. Or, if he identifies as man, yuri tag would be wrong, whatever we see with our own eyes.
I can say from my pre-transitional personal experience from my so-called marriage with cis man, we perfectly looked from outside like any normal het couple. But actually it was TOTALY INVISIBLE TO OTHERS GAY MARRIAGE, hahahaha
And it was approved by society and everyone who saw "the picture"
(well, I played a role of a woman from the outside, but we never had that typical connection male-female, man-woman like other het couples, something always was off). When I finally figured out and came out to him as transgender man, he said: "You know, you might be right", but he could not accept it. Or if he could a bit later, it was already too late ( I was not sure is he really accepting me or the apartment given to me to live there).

Great examples how (gender) identity truly is important (especially for understanding ourselves and other people).
If we look just "the picture", it can trick us.
That's why I'm stubbornly pointing on and on, on importance of what is inside "the shell". On importance of inner being, self-awareness, psyche, emotions, mindset, everything what is abstract and invisible but constantly present. And it's knocking, knocking until one day is strong enough to break that shell and come out. Nobody should suppress it, neither we who have it, nor strangers who don't have it but want to mess with our life anyway.

While I agree, I don't expect this story to go either way. It'll probably be just "I don't care about gender so long as I can be with you", without any deeper discussion of gender identity, much like Nya-chan predicted. Just "i guess i'm a girl now, that's life, huh?"

Yes, I understood Nya-chan's arguments. Maybe author indeed does not have in mind nothing related to gender identities. We'll see...

Unfortunately, we don't have many safe and trans friendly places to talk openly without being exposed to mockery or additional discomforts. For me, who is living in very hostile environment where laws don't recognize transgender people in transition, only accomplished transsexuals, it's really important to feel safe to be visible.
We can only change name in some gender neutral but we can't change assigned sex in our documents. And, even I'm passing as a male now, until bottom surgery I won't be recognized. It's like people in transition don't exist. Or, if someone can't go all the way from any reasons, is doomed.
I had a few situations in bank and post where employers started to question my identity and there was a line behind me, like, 100 people (imagine, they see a male, but documents are saying female). It's public outing, and can be very dangerous. I felt very uncomfortable to be called out like that, but I shut up mouth of that employer.
I might be careful, but it does not mean I'm a coward and won't stand up for myself even threatened with violence.
I knew that choosing transition I will lose everyone, my "friends" and "family" and my privileges, but I am getting myself. He who lives in this body is precious to me and I won't give up of him until he is born in completely safe place.

I was for so long very reluctant to comment here openly as trans guy, because of all those circumstances in rl. I suppose additional pressures are make me feel like a snail.
It would be really pity if people here become hostile toward me.
I would like just to have some enough safe space to rest from my battles in reality (but I won't put my guard down even in my sleep until I turn the whole world into safe place for everyone oppressed now)

Maybe because I'm asexual also helps.

Ooo neat. I love finding fellow aceys in the wild. I'm gray-ace, myself.

O, that's superfine. I think I was gray before "day D" in my life (if you remember some of my previous comments to you (I think it was response to you) when I said that I might be asexual but not sure if I already was before "day D" or I just experimented or going with the flow)

I was switching (bf-gf-bf-gf-etc) hahahaha
But I think I didn't feel fully comfortable in any relationship, gender irrelevant. That's why I think I was in gray area in that time.
After "day D" (when I died and returned) it seems that I reached some kind of... nirvana? state. I lost my desires (not from depression, I did not lose my will and joy for life) -trust me, losing desire for alcoholic drinks during life-cut, was something wonderful. I had a habit to buy beer cans, trying to drink as usually, but when I noticed that I'm throwing out almost full cans day by day, I just stopped to buy them to save my money and stopped to drink alcohol. And never again I felt desire to drink again.
Really strange, I was an alcoholic drinking daily, and from "today to tomorrow" I wake up and I find that I'm not an alcoholic anymore. Great, just great, what else I can say?

Then, I am not suffering anymore (inconveniences in my life are really insignificant or turn to something better), I have expanded awareness of myself and others, and knowledge of many other things.
I don't feel sexual attraction to anyone (even not romantical, I'm just kind to people). It wasn't like that before...
But I enjoy a lot aesthetical aspect of sexuality (reading yuri manga is great example)
My dark side is like a shadow on the sunny day.

^Yeah, I completely get your points. Gender bender manga indeed makes those trans-like situations, and I'm just pointing on them from my perspective.
That's why I made a clear line telling that character is not trans (not showing any gender "issues" living regularly as a boy and you had similar perception), but he becomes trans or trans-like (by some supernatural force here)

Anyway is too early to see where story really goes.
But it is interesting to see very different opinions and arguments of people.
I'm taking all of them as valid, even if they oppose with mine.
We all are speaking the truth from our perspectives.
And that makes the thing superinteresting. Because nobody of us is wrong here. It's just great that we can exchange so many experiences and learn here a lot!

How cute they are together, really matching couple.
It's a pity that kiss was interrupted (obviously would not be an assault)

Well of this is what we are talking about then so be it

From my perspective the MC seems like a perfectly regular reserved boy. Who has neither shown any indication of not caring about genders nor being obsessed with them.

He lives with his grandpa and isn't very outgoing, desperately wants his romance to succeed, has a decent backbone, not used to being adventurous, bit of an overthinker.

Rather normal on most fronts

^This is what I'm talking about, my argument and very similar perception of the character.
And we have now supernatural element replacing this very regular boy into situation in which every trans guy finds himself.
Manga makes it look like "regression", contra transition (going backward of what usually happens in reality)

And this is very good example to show that every trans guy or girl, placed in right body assigned sex, would be just regular like any other cis person (like MC in his original form).
If you can catch my point and what I'm trying to explain to people.
You would not be able to find anything strange about them.
That's why transition is very important for majority of us and should not be denied or strictly controlled by some kind of "authorities" who are giving to themselves rights to make decision about our own destiny.
It's not human, it's degrading.

HayaH's argument is that the MC is becoming someone who has a male gender identity in a body typically considered female (i.e. uterus, ovaries, et cetera). It's a reasonable argument.

Yes. I explained it in other comment. There IS the difference in mindsets of men and women, and trans persons are closer to mindsets of opposite gender, than assigned.
If it is not true, there would be not feelings of gender dysphoria.
(simply, I'm observing MC "retrograde". Sometimes going backward is the way)

(must add where I live I can't change my name legally and it's really hostile area)

Oh, that's hell. I hope things get better. Please do take care and don't put yourself needlessly at risk.

Yeah, don't worry, I'm managing. I learnt to be very cunning to avoid obstacles and unnecessary explanations of myself to strangers.
Sometimes it's a thrilllll

I don't know how you can read the character as a trans man when they don't express any particular discomfort with the physical experience of being a woman except "it's hard to sleep with boobs" on the first night. They don't express anything akin to gender dysphoria when transformed into a girl. There's the initial shock of a supernatural event, a bit of confusion, but mostly concern for their gf.

We are in disagreement only because you are trying to define trans person through feelings of gender dysphoria and discomfort, what is not wrong. But is not enough.
You are lacking to observe abstract aspects of the character, his psychological and emotional state, his self-awareness and his mindset.
It is given through his inner monologues.
For myself, he is thinking and feeling more like any normal man (male) than trans girl in her awakening.
Also, considering initial shock and novelty of situation, we can't say that he is 100% aware what exactly is happening to him, what his priorities should be, etc.
What I want to say, he simply did not have time to digest and process everything, in such a short time. So, his reactions we can't consider as definite or completely valuable while he is under the influence of shock (similar like that he is under the influences of drugs).

I'm trying to make you more aware that we should not neglect that spiritual (abstract) aspect (psyche-emotions-awareness) in transgender "phenomena". It is invisible and abstract, but it is still present!
We can't neglect from where that awareness of being trapped in the wrong body comes, why it reflects through gender dysphoria (generally), etc.
For me, the main reason why someone is trans is the mindset (self-awareness, gender identity, "ghost of a boy or a girl who lives in body of opposite gender", call it however you want it IS abstract and invisible), not gender dysphoria itself (it's reflection of that "thing" we feel).
From personal experience, I'm someone who must make compromises because of life-circumstances and I have to live learning to diminish feelings of gender dysphoria as most as I can.
Maybe because I'm asexual also helps. I suppose if I'm a sexual being those interactions would amplify feelings of gender dysphoria, so I'm fine as I am. (also my death experience split my life in two parts and changed me. I am now more like someone split in two by circumstances (not DID, it's still me just "me before" and "me after" have some inexplicable differences)
This "me after" is more gender neutral and asexual version than "me before" who was typical trans guy who was bi and a little bit wild.
"Me after" also don't drink alcohols, but "me before" was an alcoholic, and it changed just in few hours like it never existed, without any treatments and cravings! It's really strange. I really can't explain.
And it just happened.

I want to tell you with those examples that gender dysphoria can be controlled, that you can actually learn to live with it, and diminish to almost non-existent without going completely through whole process of transition. So, it's about psyche (mindset), emotions, and awareness of self.
And from other examples, lets say that it was some kind of supernatural power which changed me completely. I died (of poison). I returned.
And nothing was the same after it...
That's why I can read MC as a trans man and understand supernatural element as something "possible", or consider those "superpowers" differently than other readers.
(but I doubt that in manga MC as trans guy will really be the case if it is yuri ending)

If the MC's gender identity is male then he's getting put through some kind of weird forcefemme conversion therapy by his gf and unlike real conversion therapy it seems to be working very well on him. That's a pretty disturbing narrative, a sinister tale of a man's identity being erased and rewritten without respecting his will, and I don't think the tone of the story is nearly that dark lol. i don't think I've ever seen any genderbender story go in that direction tbh.
If we instead read her gender identity as a woman, it's a tale of a girl having her egg cracked and getting to explore a wonderful new world where she feels like herself for the first time, and grows more and more comfortable with it. The tone of the series so far definitely seems more in line with that.

If you would believe, it's not that I'm disagreeing with you.
I'm completely aware that my theory is more toxic or dark than theory about trans girl awakening.
My point was just to awake awareness about trans guys who indeed can be in 100% female body, fall in love with a girl, etc.
I by myself experienced it and tried to identify myself as a lesbian, but I felt wrong because I was not aware of myself as woman, I just THOUGHT that I am woman by default. If you can make the difference and catch what I want to say.

I'm gonna continue using they/them for the mc for the time being, they're being presented pretty fluidly so far, but it looks like it's leaning feminine pretty hard lately.

I noticed. And it's fair. I'm using he/him because I still perceive him as a male (until it eventually changes I will adapt anyway)

last edited at Jan 18, 2024 9:08AM

edit: the fuck's going on in the comment bro??? what's people fighting for lol I'm trans and I think this manga speaks levels on a lot of issues related and does not harm anyone, so what's happening exactly?

Hahaha, some of us are "arguing" is MC "antigravitational" trans man (by turning supernaturally into the girl from his previous cis form, like some kind of reversal transition process) or trans girl who was male at the beginning but fulfilled her unconscious wishes accidentally (again in supernatural way)

last edited at Jan 18, 2024 4:52AM

The point is not that if you're finding the story compelling, you're obviously trans and should seek transition. It's that if the story speaks to you in certain ways it's worth figuring out what those reasons are, and working with people to help you on any journeys of discovery that might come along with it. The goal is not transition but a deeper understanding of what your own self-conception actually is, and that can't be done without exploring some ideas that might otherwise remain covered up in a bigoted society.

In most cases transition IS the only way. You, saying that you are cis, can't know it because you feel good on hormones which your body produces naturally. But try to live for some time just being misgendered and let others use wrong pronounces on you, and I guarantee that you will feel discomfort almost immediately being addressed wrongly. Imagine how is to live with same feeling for years or decades, or even whole your life.
Identity is about being addressed by YOUR REAL NAME, gender pronounces are just one step behind it.
And having REAL NAME is the most important thing for every person.
Because when someone calls you, you answer knowing it IS your name and YOUR destiny seal. Why would we, trans people, answer to others while being addressed wrongly? Why do we have to live destiny of someone else, being addressed by wrong name and forced by society and others to respond on "wrong call"? It makes us liars! (must add where I live I can't change my name legally and it's really hostile area)
Think about it deeply, because maybe nobody presented it to you like this, before.

For me transition was question of life and death. Without switching hormones and starting to be visible as man, I would die, simply wither.
If I tell you that I was even in some kind of marriage with two kids, simply vegetating and living on autopilot, until I figured out that I AM trans man, what would you say?
That I was simply "insane" to leave some from outside looking comfortable life and privileges to chase after some "illusion"?
After trying so hard to BE a woman and "fulfill my duties" I realized that I was just playing some role of woman, that it drains almost all my life energy.
And I was already mature and in my 30's, so you can't say that I was simply influenced with some kind of stories (like this manga and similar, as you say), when I even did not know what word transgender means, or that it exist! (My body was my grave in that time. Until I started to give birth to myself, becoming visible as a man)

But I'm telling you, after revelation, 24 hours was enough for me to decide that I will go all the way. To do it for myself (I was living for others to be happy, but I wasn't, and I simply owed it to myself)
For personal reasons (not health) let's say that I can't go all the way (at least for now).
So I decided only to take hormones without surgeries, that I can have complete control which system of hormones I will use and switch when I am forced by some hard life circumstances, or like when I saw that I'm starting to lose some hair on top of my head because of T, I simply switch (return on body natural hormones, let my hair grow again and I switch again on T).
And I can say that I feel better on T, like, million times.
I really tried so hard to be a woman, but I am NOT a woman!
Without transition and visibility of my real identity, I feel suffocated.
So, would you rather leave trans person to die, than let them transition?
You never experienced hell of puberty, when you would become aware that you are completely helpless to stop your boobs to grow, that you are turning into a woman! (I just did not have a word and knowledge to utter that my feelings are feelings of man in that time, but I knew always, like in an abstract way)

For that reasons I'm completely pro for giving kids hormone blockers, knowing the hell of wrong puberty from personal experience, and knowing that switching hormonal systems is completely manageable and safe. It's like programming your body, similar as computer. Body can work both ways, genitals are irrelevant for it, for which system of hormones you will use (that's why it's called replacement)
But, oh, people are so self-righteous and they care so much about bodies of others and what will someone do with their body, like that they own the body of that someone else. Oh, yes. What delusion.

last edited at Jan 18, 2024 5:33AM

And what about the girlfriend and the fact how much turned on she was with Akuzaki-girl?
It was my favorite detail and highlight from the beginning of the story.

(Actually, I would keep following this story just because of her, not because of male MC. Just sayin' to be known)

And I, as you, also figured out about myself later in life, simply not knowing for "possibility" until I saw first trans girl singing, changing voices from female to male, and it immediately clicked. All my pieces of puzzles fell into right places at once.

It's a funny feeling, right? Like "oh, dang". Gave me a week of anxiety and panic attacks (not fun), but it worked out in the end. I'm in a better place than I was before that.

O, yeah, it was "oh, dang" feeling, as you said. But I was amazed and I felt relieved. For me the real shock happened about year ago when I figured out why I'm like this and who I was before. And I was grieving for months for my true self like that I died long time ago... But I made lot of songs. One day I will be able to sing about it in real words, for now all those songs are in made up language.

I'm listening to them constantly.
I can say it's very pleasant when your voice is changed and you HEAR yourself

(after mentioning "the frog" it gave me some idea. Do you (or anyone) find this story very similar to some modern version of Frog Prince, with a little different outcome of the kiss?)

Are you talking about a specific fairy tale or just the general concept of kissed frogs turning into princes?

I think I had in mind the fairy tale, not the general concept.
That situation with boy turning into girl after being kissed reminded me exactly on that story about Frog Prince.
Some variation.

And I'm sorry that I don't know much about agender people, but I hope to learn more, and I will be interested in your future comments, especially about gender.

Hmmm... How can I explain this simply? Agender folks generally understand the concept of genders and say "no, thank you". I don't feel comfortable considering myself either gender. It doesn't suit me. So I can choose to dress however I want, and change my body to fit any image that makes me feel more comfortable (hormones and some surgeries are okay). I don't even tell people I'm agender most of the time (they can read me however they want, so long as they respect my preferred pronouns), but I'll never be comfortable saying "I'm a man" or "I'm a woman". I'm really neither.

I can perfectly understand you and your feelings of not being comfortable (I also have similar feelings but they don't go both ways like with you)
I think and feel about myself as he/him, but I also can accept they/them.
I live in hostile environment and I'm always careful not knowing how the others could perceive me, so I go completely as gender neutral in public because of circumstances (for safety, I only switch to my right pronounces after I see how I am addressed, and maybe we are similar keeping from people, but from different reasons)
Usually I'm not misgendered by strangers (I'm very comfortable being on T for years, without surgeries)
It's not ideal situation for me or real choice, but I can manage. I also noticed that with aging and maturity I don't care much about gender.
Sometimes I really feel sick about all that male and female polarizations and magnetizations infiltrated in every aspect of our life.

I also think that I might be asexual but I'm not sure if I became asexual after having death experience 7 years ago (really paranormal thing), or I was already asexual before it, just experimenting when I was younger or going with a flaw.
That point in my life really changed everything splitting my life on "before and after", and made me a kind of self sufficient hermit.
It's nothing dark in it, really (I mean, I was hurt a lot in my life but I was not destroyed whatever came upon me. It just means I'm stronger than any of those powers, ha ha)
I still can fight back. And resend all those "love" letters...

Thank you for educating me and presenting yourself so clearly that I was able to understand easy everything you said.
You must be very cute being, however you look and feel.
And you are very kind to me. Thank you!

last edited at Jan 18, 2024 5:51AM

Why majority of you are seeing male MC as trans woman?
This gender bender situation clearly shows that he is becoming trans man

I don't think any definitions are clear in this particular scenario. The way I understand it (I'm agender by the way), trans men are those who were assigned female at birth, but identify as male. So that wouldn't quite fit this particular character. At the same time, it would be strange to just call them a regular cis man during the body swap episodes, because their experiences aren't those of other cis men. You could call them a trans woman if it's revealed that they identify as female (meaning: assigned male, identify as female), but they wouldn't be a regular run off the mill trans woman either.

In essence, language falls short here, there are no words to describe this type of scenario.

Thanks for responding and explaining some of your points of view.
It's really hard to define MC at this point if you go by definition.
Especially when supernatural element is included, and AFAB and AMAB elements are completely useless.

Also, to explain myself better, I did not say MC IS trans man, he BECOMES transman (in pre-transition state), according to his mindset and his self awareness, and it happens supernaturally.
It means, physical transformation is complete (including their genitals), and we can't call it transition or compare it with trans girls.
That's why I'm stating it's closer to transgender man.

By logic and how situation functions in reality, MC indeed should be trans girl, so I really understand you and others who are stating that MC is trans girl. But according to the other details from the story and what I'm saying here, it's not the case (at least not for now)

However, I was reading other your comments and I agree with you that at this point we really can't know how story will go, and we should give it a chance.
And I, as you, also figured out about myself later in life, simply not knowing for "possibility" until I saw first trans girl singing, changing voices from female to male, and it immediately clicked. All my pieces of puzzles fell into right places at once.
That's why I adore trans girls as my first inspiration and initiation.
And I'm sorry that I don't know much about agender people, but I hope to learn more, and I will be interested in your future comments, especially about gender.

Akizuki seems pretty obviously like a trans-esque character: if they really had a solid male identity, being turned fully into a girl temporarily would make them not want to do that again, and they'd especially flee when learning about the PERMANENT GENDER LOCK TO GIRL. No romance is worth lifelong gender dysphoria.
Instead, Akizaki is anxious but also a fully willing participant and is growing to be comfortable with transition more and more. This is not a character tied to being a man lol. Actual men would not take this bargain.

I agree and disagree with some words you said.
Actually, I would agree if we are not talking about this manga particularly.
Where is supernatural element in your analyze?
We have Akizaki presented as cis male who is not transitioning, but finds himself supernaturally and occasionally turned into girl, ONLY by shape.
I also must ask you, how do you know what an "actual man" would do in that situation in which is Akizuki now?

As I said, this manga is like observing two different lifetimes of same person at once.
First "life", the character is cis male.
Second "life", he BECOMES pre-transitioned transman (his awareness is still awareness of himself as a man, but body is of a girl).
And author mixed up everything at once that we can observe both lines of the story together.
So, premise of the manga is that before he became trans, he was cis first. It's very interesting premise, very unusual.
It is a very important hint which is leading to the truth. Something to think about, why some people don't have their original bodies?
It's direction how you have to start to think to find the answer, start to understand what world is hiding.

You said Akizaki is more and more comfortable with transition. Where we have in reality "transition" from cis male to transman? (he doesn't identify as a girl to say it's transition from male to female, and he is not comfortable with it)
Also, you might be right regard future chapters, it depends on take of the author and their goal. If it is yuri ending situation is already predestined.
I'm not excluding opinions of others, but I have right to set up another theory however strange it is, or even if it won't go till the end of manga.

Anyway, I'm observing this story very metaphorically, especially because it includes supernatural element.
What and how I see is not what someone else sees, but I like to read about different opinions, not expecting of people to agree with me.
Your points are interesting, and I would like to know bases for them, as I asked above.

Actual men would not take this bargain.
If you think you're a man and would take this bargain, you should discuss this with your therapist and start thinking deeply about your gender identity, because there might be some stuff about yourself you haven't realized before lol.

Please don't belittle struggles of people you don't know and question their identities, even as a joke.
Chances to hurt someone AND yourself are equal, just trust me I know what I'm speaking.

And, do you really think situation in manga is about choice? Some "bargain"?
Akizaku might be put into position that he has some choice, but it also could be buying a time to stay with the girl he likes until something miraculous or resolving happens again.

If you ask me the same question what would I do, my answer is I would accept gender bender situation but not permanently, just temporary. And only if it is of worldwide importance.
And I must have great reasons to accept, only if I would prosper as real me in this "bargain" and never again experience the same.
Do you think it will really change my gender ID and awareness of myself?
I'm telling you, turn me into the frog, I will still be aware and completely sure of myself who I really am. And I will dig for my life to return back in my original form.
"Shapeshift" means nothing, essence is always the same, unchangeable (even for fluid people, they will be fluid as they are).

(after mentioning "the frog" it gave me some idea. Do you (or anyone) find this story very similar to some modern version of Frog Prince, with a little different outcome of the kiss?)

Also, stop trying to shoe in gender politics in a manga (who's trans, who's an egg, who's a woman or not..). It's rarely the actual topic of this kind of genderbender/genderswap manga. Japanese authors are not playing by your rules.

You are half-right half-wrong. We don't know where the author is going with this type of story. But it's interesting however the story continues.
Personally I won't be disappointed whatever the author decide to do.

In the other hand, we all have different perceptions about certain manga topics, and where to express it or share with others if not on the forum particularly made for such kind of discussions?
There will be always trans people who can identify with gender bender manga characters or recognize the struggles as real.

I really like your comments and insights you are giving about works here, but quoted part of your comment made me a little bit sad.
If you act sharp like this it gives impression like you want to shut up particularly trans people and make them stop to comment and share their point of view (which I think is rare).
You should not call it "gender politic" in manga tagged by word gender (bender) where is expected of people to guess gender and give their opinions.

Well, I'm not sure why I'm writing this when I even did not feel called out by you.
Maybe the reason is just because I have different opinion.
I WOULD like to see more comments about guessing the gender of the MC, and more gender related comments.

So, simply said, I am encouraging what you discouraged.

And it's nothing personal against you, I highly respect your opinions here, so allow me to oppose your statement simply as someone who doesn't hold any animosity toward you.

last edited at Jan 17, 2024 4:38AM

Why majority of you are seeing male MC as trans woman?
This gender bender situation clearly shows that he is becoming trans man (supernaturally, because of "the curse" like premise in this manga)

This manga tells that ALL trans people were cis before, until something unknown happened to them what "shapeshifted" them in opposite gender (we must include belief in previous life or reincarnation in this setting).
And I as trans man completely agree with it.

Awareness of trans people who they are (were) is not insanity.
We just don't have a physical "proof", it's just about our word and if someone would believe us and accept our testimony who we really are (were).

It's clear that awareness of the MC guy stays the same after gender change (again, the truth about trans people)
So, it's strange about other readers' perception that he is trans girl.
He is obviously cis male who becomes transgender man.
And I personally believe that it is the truth about transgender people.
We know who we are (were) and what we know existed before our current misery to find ourselves captured into bodies of opposite sex.
It's very interesting to see the struggle presented in this way, reading about it in this manga.

Now it's only a question how other readers will digest this situation about trans man being in love with a girl (we have two parallel views in manga, observing male MC in his original form, and in his trans form)
In the later it IS yuri, but only on the surface, by shape (with trans girls before transition situation is reversed)
What is happening in the mind of male/trans MC we can see through his inner emotional turmoil reading about his thoughts.
Again, his mindset is not changed, just his body. And that's how really is with trans people.

It's very interesting and clever of the author to present both cases in same time to readers that they might understand better the situation about transgender people generally, especially about trans men who are very neglected by everyone)

As a trans man, I can say that I was blessed to feel glimpses of yuri as the purest form of love while I was still unaware who I really am, and I'll forever be grateful for those experiences...

Adding supernatural element in this kind of story is OK, because it is always good choice when something is unknown and we don't understand whole situation why some things are happening (like transgender "phenomena")

I hope that my personal belief is not insulting to other trans people and others who might disagree or have different personal beliefs.
As a trans man I believe that transition is helping us to regain our original form.
It's return to our true self, not some "wish" to change sex, for whatever reasons we are accused by our haters and everyone else who is diminishing us and our existence.
And I know the future will prove my words and expand awareness of whole humanity, resolving unknown mysteries of life and bringing global freedom to all of us who are considered as "minorities", receiving slurs and oppression by cruel and exclusive society.

^ Thanks!
Hope the author will update and finish that exceptionally beautiful story.
How expressive their art is, even without much words!
(I'm literary in love with their art!)

That was really cute confession...
Please finish Swallow Tail

ain’t like the story not translated? or did they catch up with the author and they stop updating the story? also can you please tell me were i can read the translated verion?

I found translations only to the chapter 46, googling. (I was reading it on m_ng_go)
I think online are English and Portuguese translations to that chapter.
If there are more untranslated chapters, I really don't know, nor how to find it.

That was really cute confession...
Please finish Swallow Tail

One day those hormones start to work and they don't ask for consistency of the "story" and how you felt before

This chapter freaked me out a little, seeing some of characters evaluations and comparisons almost in exact words like in my previous comment (two chapters ago, on the top on previous page)

Dear people, just know, it really wasn't about spoilers, my knowledge of Chinese language (and Japanese) is currently zero.
All comments are based on observations from what is already published in English, here.

last edited at Nov 28, 2023 12:37PM

Was it a kiss attempt before phone ringing ruined the moment?

last edited at Nov 26, 2023 8:51AM

Thank you, your point is much clearer now.

You are welcome. Let's say the first comment was a draft of a thought what needed some time to mature.
Thank you for pointing on it, it really needed editing and shaping.

I'm sympathetic to your argument, although I think comparing disliking characters like Meiko to fascism is a bit much.

Actually, it's not an observation of fascism through political movement, but as principle applied in human behavior, based on original meaning of Italian word fascio (explained above in this thread). But the root of evil is same.

It's understandable that we as humans can be frustrated.
We need venting out, and it's OK if we do it here bitching over imaginary characters.

But if we really want to express our higher moral standards, why those tendencies for venting out our frustrations over victims who are already defeated by life circumstances or damaged enough by society? Aren't we, as yuri lovers, in similar position like them in world's hierarchy?
It is a cowardice to attack them, and hypocrisy.
We should vent out our frustrations on real villains, not on victims.
Find our match.
Or find some constructive ways to criticize (like yours), not destructive.

You are mentioning Meiko here. And credits goes to Kodama Naoko for making this wonderful yet heartbreaking story about "love born from a tragedy" which bonded her characters Reo and Meiko in unusual and unexpected ways.
Is it too much, as you say, to observe the case of raped girl through the fascistic tendencies of certain group of people in our society (globally)?
Let's see through examples and phases:

• Meiko was raped!

Society reacts in two ways in cases of rape:
sympathetic to the victim, or accusing the victim:

"It's her fault she's raped!",
"She dressed up to provoke!",
"She wanted it! (deserved it)" etc
.
(in this case in manga it's Reo who is taking the guilt, but in basis, it's still THE GUILT for being raped. And that guilt is forced on females by so called society norms. To feel ashamed or helpless, or ashamed of their femininity)
Isn't that an example of fascistic tendency of society?
(observing through my explanation about a bundle of (self-righteous) people stuck together to attack everyone who is morally questionable by norms which they proclaim, as rule of majority, or rule of stronger)

In their eyes, raped victim is morally unclean (defiled), and deserves to suffer more than what that victimized person already suffered.
It's the principle of the cruel. To smell a victim as a shark smells blood, and attack them and rip them to shreds.

In reality, it's those "sharks" who should be ashamed or persecuted, as the scum of society. But they are inverting situation presenting themselves as morally (self) righteous individuals, sticking together as a group, like cowards, always over someone weaker or outnumbered.
The other reason why they attack, is: they feel threatened
The victim goes public, discovers their dark deeds or desires, and they want to shut the victim up (using various tactics like gaslighting, mocking, public humiliation, pressures, etc.)
Read again my every word in both comments and you will understand why such collective behavior is marked by word fascism, and in which cases.

Next phase:

• Meiko "enslaved" Reo.

It's actually her way how to handle her emotional turmoil. She is trying to heal herself gaining control over someone else.
Rape is attack on THE WILL of the person, not just their body.
We should understand that's why Meiko wants to control Reo.
To overpower Reo's will telling her what to do and when.
And it's completely understandable and not for judgment when we know why she wants it.
She is struggling to survive survival. Society disrespects victimized people (again, fascistic tendency of all those "superior" and "morally correct")

Meiko's way how to handle her situation is questionable, but it's her way when nobody else is helping her to overcome situation.
We need better understanding of victims/victimized people to form righteous judgment about their behavior. Especially if their behavior is negative or unchanneled.
We don't need to harm them deeper, but help them to come back into society offering them better solutions than it's this example from manga.
Accepting them wholeheartedly and respecting them would be better solution.
Victims/victimized people really could often seem to us like villains, but it's their cry for help actually.
Like in this case with Reo and Meiko.

There is the next phase:

• Meiko "raped" Reo

but there is already too much said about very harsh subject in this comment. If there is an interest, let me know to finish analyze, or it will be done one day, eventually...

If someone have any questions or needs better clarification, just ask.
Hope this analyze could help if someone needs it.

Thank you all who invested your time in reading this (long) comment to this line!

last edited at Nov 21, 2023 12:23PM

Now the problematic comment is edited and fixed.
Hope it helps now. If there are still problems, notify or ask for clearing.

Thanks for pointing out and helping to see what was in wrong order

last edited at Nov 20, 2023 5:11PM

I also wonder if some of what Yunduo feels toward Xiaoen is colored by...not jealousy, but envy maybe? Appreciation for how Xiaoen is so unselfconscious about bucking those aforementioned pressures of what women "should" be like, and how Yunduo herself has never had the courage to do the same.

It has to do a lot with early loss of her mother.
It's interesting that Yunduo and Xingyuan suffered early loss of their mothers, and both of them are showing same emotional insecurity, expressed very similarly but yet so differently.
Observe their reactions toward father figure (and keep in mind their age difference)
It's very similar, being under the pressure of expectations of father/society, etc. And possibly their upbringing is very similar.

While Xiaoen was spared from such hard blows in life.
And it's good.
She is a pillar for Yunduo and Xingyuan, a great contrast for their darkness caused by loss of mothers.

last edited at Nov 20, 2023 3:29PM

Yuni is just too easily corruptable. Not being able to effectively communicate her relationship problems with her partner leading to turmoil is realistic and understandable.

Did you include in "effective" communication their conversation at the beginning, even before everything with Fuuko started?
(Scenes after disastrous group date on the festival and Yuni's complaint about all what Nanase is doing)

It's very important question.
If you included, we can't say Yuni did not try. Nanase promised to change, and did nothing. We can't say it was effective conversation, giving no results.
But, after Yuni pointed on everything, she is not guilty or responsible for faults of Nanase. Yuni did try to communicate, after all.

If you forgot about that conversation, please don't contradict manga story line.

Just be more precise. Your points are valid, but word "effectively" is making things ambiguous here and needs better clarification.
It changes Yuni's character perception drastically, depends on using, pointed above.

last edited at Nov 20, 2023 4:56AM

To be frank, I think a lot of people can't handle a female character specifically who's significantly flawed but still treated as sympathetic. If you look at het romances, male love interests (or even protagonists) are often far worse than even Meiko here -- and for not nearly as good reasons -- and yet are given way more leeway by readers than Meiko was. People, even a lot of yuri fans, just have way higher standards for female characters in general.

Your observation isn't showing how readers are having the higher standards for female characters. Even it is very romantic thought of yours.
Truth is, tendency of readers is to find the victim who is the safest option for bitching about, a victim who won't bite back easily.
Females are "safer" option for it because society looks on females as weaker. And you are testifying for it, mentioning very tolerable reactions of readers toward male love interests who are far often worse than even Meiko here. But people are going to bitch about Meiko more, of course.
It shows that gender plays a very important role in reactions of readers, and how they will regroup.

But I think it's pretty clear that a lot of readers don't have much (like any) patience with stories about "mutually toxic relationships." In fact, a lot of readers seem to be dead-set on identifying "the good one" (as opposed to "the least messed-up one")

The case you are presenting talks about tendency of readers to find the safest option in what is morally the most acceptable. That way self-righteous individual becomes a part of larger group, counting on how they'll have more supporters in fighting against "those trainwracks" who are morally "damaged".

Unfortunately, as we see, those choices are mostly based on gender and diversity...
In other words, someone would say it's about fascism (in original meaning of the word which is "a bundle of people" (a bundle of sticks in Italian) which can't be broken easily, glued together.
They are morally self righteous group of people and they are dictating norms set up by majority. It's the basic fascism.
And we are infected with it. Some might be completely unaware of it, some not.

That's why Kodama and Iwami are great artists.
Their manga characters will make readers to show authentically and clearly their true colors without knowing, while supporting or hating those characters.
Artists are showing that way levels of infection of people in sickness of society (globally).

footnote:
This opinion is not calling out to ANYONE on this forum specifically.
And it's not judgmental post in accusatory way. Just a fact.
It is something what is happening EVERYWHERE, through the politic, art, etc.

last edited at Nov 20, 2023 6:09PM