This is beginning to feel futile. Y'all seem to think I'm saying something that I'm not. Anyway, I gotta go to bed.

Basically, that, if Nakatani wanted to make a statement, she's doing it wrong.

Writing realistic characters is just good writing. If you can provide a link to something pro LGBT Nakatani has said, then you can have a stronger argument.

How about that time she wrote a Yuri manga? On a more serious note, she has an interview were she mentioned including male characters specifically to emphasize how the feelings between the girls are real.

Beyond that writing a story IS making a statement. Every decision an author makes in their story says something about how they think. Sayaka's subplot to me says that Nakatani thinks love between two girls is just as valid as love between a girl and a boy.

I view that as grounded writing. If the manga feels as real as possible: the impact is greater.

While writing does indicate something about the author, that doesn't change anything about the intent of the work. If she wanted to make a statement then the characters orientations would be more prevalent. Yuu and Touko could have gotten together and then deal with coming out instead of having the main focus be Touko's problems, the sensei having some sort of problem with her job because she has a girlfriend.

If in all her interviews she has never said 'I wrote this to better represent LGBT people' and the manga isn't saying much about LGBT people outside of what directly applies to the characters, then she's not trying to make a statement. In fact, thinking about it, you said 'Every decision an author makes in their story says something about how they think'. It has nothing to do with what she's trying to convey.

It wouldn't even be too hard for Nakatani to have turned this into LGBT commentary. Just having Yuu look up something like: 'is there something wrong with me if I've never fallen in love?' and finding a website about being asexual/aromantic would be enough to make me think it's a statement.

Now to be fair, I'm ambivalent towards the idea of Nakatani trying to send a message about lesbians in this story, that might be the case. It's definitely not the point of the story though.

PS: Physical attraction in Yuri is far from rare these days.

Where did I say it was the point of the story? I'll say it again. I'm simply disagreeing with the claim that she isn't conscious of LGBT issues, I think there is more than enough evidence to suggest that she is at least a little aware of them. I think it'd be pretty hard for a Yuri writer not to be nowadays. Yes, Yuri leads are often shown physically attracted to each other nowadays, but I haven't seen too many of them were a girl is shown to fall for another girl based on appearance alone and have it be taken seriously.

P.S Writing realistic lesbians is absolutely making a statement.

Writing realistic characters is just good writing. If you can provide a link to something pro LGBT Nakatani has said, then you can have a stronger argument.

With the way you put it, it is literally impossible to write a realistic lesbian character without making a statement. Rather than not being mutually exclusive, you made them synonymous, which is also wrong.

Nakatani writes the characters realistically and a realistic lesbian deals with these kinds of things, but that doesn't exactly mean she is trying to make a message about the situation of lesbians in general. Some stuff just comes with the territory.

@KawaiiSuika, this is basically what I was trying to say and I perhaps put it wrong. When I said Nakatani isn't LGBT conscious I meant that she is more concerned with writing a compelling and grounded story than making statements. At the very least she hasn't mentioned anything in any of her interviews that I've read to indicate that she wants this to be about LGBT issues in real life. Not to mention that there are a lot of more pressing issues in Japan about LGBT teens that she hasn't really touched.

About labelling Yuu: considering a few interviews from Nakatani I'd assume she was just trying to create a character that hasn't felt love before, which is a common trope, and subvert it slightly by having the character stay out of love initially (unlike manga I've read with this trope).

When trying to do so, her editor found similar real-life stories of people who haven't fallen in love for inspiration. I'd imagine Yuu reads aro/ace because Nakatani used an aro/ace person as a base.

How much Nakatani is even aware of the terms is debatable, however, considering she makes no attempt to actually make comments on sexuality and LGBTQ+ issues beyond what directly applies to the characters (which is mostly just good writing), I don't think Nakatani has a label for her.

In short, there's both little meaning in categorising the orientation of a fictional character (who's confused about that anyway) using what evidence we have and considering Nakatani herself doesn't seem concerned with this we'll never get a confirmation.

I believe Nakatani just wanted to write a story about two girls falling in love in a way that hasn't been explored before and has done a brilliant job of it. In order to do that she just subverts a lot of tropes in a way that could be considered a comment on that situation but, I can't find any evidence of her being LGBT conscious.

P.S. i think labelling is fairly narrow-minded anyway as it's literally just an easy way to fit someone into preconceived ideas without a full exploration of the person. But, that's also the limiting nature of words.

You can't find any evidence of her being LGBT conscious? What about Sayaka, just all of Sayaka? Not to mention Maki. Plus, she had said in interviews that she reads a lot of the yuri, and chances are she's read at least some of the more explicitly LGBT works. Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with labels. For many LGBT ppl, they are a crucial part of understanding oneself. So long as you don't force them on others they can be great.

That's just good character writing, though. Sayaka is attracted to girls so there is, of course, going to be the issue of how that's not 'normally' the case - it just makes sense. It may be just my attitude to representation in media causing a bias though: if they are a good character, then it's probably good representation. I just think a lot of the characters and situations are simply grounded in reality instead of trying to make a statement about LGBT in general.

About the labelling, I meant forcing it was what I don't like - you can decide what to label yourself but, not someone else. A lot of people are saying 'Yuu acts like this, so she must be this' without considering how human emotions are more complicated than that and we don't have the full picture.

Something like Wandering Son is what I'd call a definitive statement (though I'm still in the middle of watching it). Generally Nakatani leaves feeling too vague for me to register it as a statement and not just grounded writing.

About labelling Yuu: considering a few interviews from Nakatani I'd assume she was just trying to create a character that hasn't felt love before, which is a common trope, and subvert it slightly by having the character stay out of love initially (unlike manga I've read with this trope).

When trying to do so, her editor found similar real-life stories of people who haven't fallen in love for inspiration. I'd imagine Yuu reads aro/ace because Nakatani used an aro/ace person as a base.

How much Nakatani is even aware of the terms is debatable, however, considering she makes no attempt to actually make comments on sexuality and LGBTQ+ issues beyond what directly applies to the characters (which is mostly just good writing), I don't think Nakatani has a label for her.

In short, there's both little meaning in categorising the orientation of a fictional character (who's confused about that anyway) using what evidence we have and considering Nakatani herself doesn't seem concerned with this we'll never get a confirmation.

I believe Nakatani just wanted to write a story about two girls falling in love in a way that hasn't been explored before and has done a brilliant job of it. In order to do that she just subverts a lot of tropes in a way that could be considered a comment on that situation but, I can't find any evidence of her being LGBT conscious.

P.S. i think labelling is fairly narrow-minded anyway as it's literally just an easy way to fit someone into preconceived ideas without a full exploration of the person. But, that's also the limiting nature of words.

There is an annual award in Japan, ranking the best show of a certain year. In this 523 big ranking, you can vote for up to 3 tv series and 3 anime movies, that came out between the 10/15/17 to the 10/13/18.

Bloom Into You is in that poll, ready to be voted for. So let's do it! Let's help rise the series in the best ones from this year! The title in Japanese for Bloom is: やがて君になる,

Here is the link! https://best100.animefestival.jp/

To vote, you need a Twitter account.

It's just that usually the manga has sound effects (like "ba-dump" or "Doki Doki") when a heartbeat sound should be heard, so if there wasn't one in the chapter, I can't blame the anime staff for not adding it.

That song they played during it was really nice. Wonder if it's sung by the same singer from the OP.

The insert song is Rise sung by Riko Azuna

It's out, it happened and it was beautiful: https://goanimelist.me/yagate-kimi-ni-naru-episode-9 (mystream).

I just tried listening to the dub and, as usual, everything sounds wrong. Yuu sounds like a Disney princess, Akari sounds like a vapid high schooler and I'm not masochistic enough to wait for everyone to speak.

I’m sure you’re right, but to be fair, Akari is a vapid high schooler.

I'd describe her as 'typical', Sayaka's senpai is someone I'd describe as vapid.

vapid
/ˈvapɪd/Submit
adjective
offering nothing that is stimulating or challenging; bland.

last edited at Nov 30, 2018 7:51AM

I just tried listening to the dub and, as usual, everything sounds wrong. Yuu sounds like a Disney princess, Akari sounds like a vapid high schooler and I'm not masochistic enough to wait for everyone to speak.

Bloom Into You, on the other hand, is much better plot-wise. But the main characters all feel strangely defined by their problems, while in Shitrus only Mei-bot was like that. It might be a general problem with very introspective stories: Yuu doesn't seem enough like her own person, at least to me, because all we are ever shown is her thoughts about Touko/love (even when she is doing other stuff), and as for Touko there is a lot of focus on her trauma of course, and maybe not enough on what makes her likable other than how she interacts with Yuu. So although the story construction itself is flawless, it makes it harder (TO ME) to feel what the characters feel and go along for the ride.

I don't think this is an inaccurate reading of the story. But as you say, the important thing is how any given reader subjectively reacts to the things you describe. I personally like the combination of thematic focus and methodical plot construction, and find myself rather invested in a story that (as I have probably already said too many times), once you grant its rather bizarre premises has been flawlessly executed.

But, as we've discussed before, I'm primarily a "story" reader rather than a "character" reader, so I don't have to feel what the characters feel; I just need to believe that they feel it.

In my case believing that a character feels something, which often comes from extremely good writing, is necessary to form an emotional attachment because at the end of the day these aren't real people so it takes some doing to make the jump between 'character' and 'person' in my mind.

Addressing @matsuri_wins, why didn't you just say that in the first place instead of insulting a character that 99% of people reading it like. Try to understand that saying you prefer a trashy show over a meticulously well crafted one, in the way that you did, comes across as insensitive.

Idk the story is just too slow for me. I really like the writing, can't find any problems with it...but jfc do these people spend their lives analyzing their feelings or what? xD Like, the adult couple is much more interesting, it would be great if there was a spin-off series about them. Touko should just stop being an emo and grow the hell up. She is suffering from the ultimate 1st world problem: the girl she loves, after a long time thinks she is amazing and loves her back. Wow, what a horrible problem to have.

You aren't very introspective, are you?

It's not about beinig introspective or not, but I guess I just think the story makes big problems out of relatively small problems...if that makes sense. Like, I don't find Touko's problem that traumatic for her to be making such a big deal out of it. I know it's very sad, but losing a family member all of a sudden is a common problem and she is otherwise leading a super comfortable life, her parents are around and seem to love her very much. The fact that this seems to render her unable to react as a decent person and respond to Yuu's feelings with a yes or no, and instead kind of run away from it all, really bothers me and strikes me as selfish and immature. While people seem to be like "oh poor Touko" lol

The fact she has life problems like most of the planet doesn't excuse her, and I feel that in the story both Sayaka and Yuu are enablers of her behaviour. She needs to be snapped out of it, someone should confront her and be like "girl get over yourself".

It seems as if ill have to repeat myself but as someone who has wbat you'd call minor problems, it's really insulting to hear someone say 'get over it'. Like if I could I would but, I can't help it.

By extension Touko has for several years suffered with issues of self worth issues
of self worth - whch wasonly.made worse by
Her sisters death and only 2 chapters ago did she start to address it. ITS GOING TO TAKE SOME FUCKING TIME.

if you dont understand that, then I don't know what else to say

Can't wait for next ep. https://i.redd.it/x9vgiykp88121.jpg

Also, does anyone know where I can find this bonus/extra/special chapter?

EDIT: I know someone found the raws and linked them, but I can't read that.

https://m.imgur.com/a/0hqkYOf

Good news: ‘hectopascal’ at #11 / ‘Kimi ni furete’ at #12 in iTunes Japan charts today!

https://i.redd.it/0qteo0xra7121.jpg

last edited at Nov 29, 2018 2:27AM

Ya know guys, putting things in spoilers doesn't make it any less spam. So uh, let's not do it?

In other news, on some comment sections for the anime I had a (let's call it a) discussion with someone who claimed there are too many lesbians in the anime and it's completely unrealistic. Along the lines of in Yuri and Yaoi, all characters always turn gay.
You think the anime having Sayaka and the adult couple revealed in the same episode made it feel too strained? YagaKimi is one of the most realistic yuri stories IMO, where the percentage of straight to gay is very believable and BOYS EXIST. Like in the story. And they have actual roles other than being a threat.

Maybe those commenters don't know narrative focus, but what do I know?

I don't think like 3 messages counts as spam and it's still technically related to YagaKimi but, if you'll send me the link to your discussion I'll back you up.

Some people are pretty dumb. I watched a YouTube review of Monogatari yesterday and the guy didn't like it because he wants there to be more action, even though it's stated multiple times that violence won't really solve the problems and that these are psychological problems.

Yuu gets hit by truck-kun and is transported to another world. 1000 chapters later she returns but, finds that Touko is dead due to different time flows

Nakatani said she is 80% done. This will be finished by early 2020.

I've done the math. If the 80% figure is true, then there should be 9 chapters left. It's still not certain, but it's a good enough reference.

I included the possibility for extra chapters.

Well, I didn't factor in that :/
I may or may not have to run the numbers. Again

The longest volume is 9 chapters long (6 actual chapters with 3 extras), so worst case scenario is 15 months. (Well actual worst case scenario is that Nakatani's editor makes her extend it by another 100 chapters, during which she gets ill and stops writing)

Is the last redaction supposed to be some kind of dark humor? I want to know if I made a mistake by chuckling (if it isn't dark humor) or not (it is is dark humor).

It's dark humour. Or was it???

Nakatani said she is 80% done. This will be finished by early 2020.

I've done the math. If the 80% figure is true, then there should be 9 chapters left. It's still not certain, but it's a good enough reference.

I included the possibility for extra chapters.

Well, I didn't factor in that :/
I may or may not have to run the numbers. Again

The longest volume is 9 chapters long (6 actual chapters with 3 extras), so worst case scenario is 15 months. (Well actual worst case scenario is that Nakatani's editor makes her extend it by another 100 chapters, during which she gets ill and stops writing)

Don't feed matsuri_wins guys. The name says it all doesn't it? lol
What she wants as "payoff" has nothing to do with real payoff.

Idk the story is just too slow for me. I really like the writing, can't find any problems with it...but jfc do these people spend their lives analyzing their feelings or what? xD Like, the adult couple is much more interesting, it would be great if there was a spin-off series about them. Touko should just stop being an emo and grow the hell up. She is suffering from the ultimate 1st world problem: the girl she loves, after a long time thinks she is amazing and loves her back. Wow, what a horrible problem to have.

Yeah Touko, why can't you just get over your deeply ingrained trauma already?

Seriously, you might as well tell a depressed person to 'get over it' or a person who broke their legs to 'walk it off'. You're being insensitive.

Nakatani said she is 80% done. This will be finished by early 2020.

I've done the math. If the 80% figure is true, then there should be 9 chapters left. It's still not certain, but it's a good enough reference.

I included the possibility for extra chapters.

Why do I have the feeling this story is looking like it ain't going nowhere, as far as any conclusive satisfying payoff goes? I find myself missing Citrus as hard as it is to imagine lol Because hey, at least in the end we got even a crazy wedding. The impression I get is that Bloom Into You gonna end up with them blushing saying their love for each other is "pure" or some such nonsense.

Well...
Nakatani said she likes writing about messy relationships so, she probably won't have a 'pure' ending.

Nakatani has also said that she has always had the end in mind since starting it, I doubt an 'everything is happy' was how she wanted that ending.

No offence but, are you high? What about this story seems like it will be inconclusive? It's taking 3 chapters to set up the solution that Nakatani has been building up to for 3 or so years.

I dropped Citrus after about the fourth time some idiot was introduced just to extend the runtime, are you seriously comparing the two?

Nakatani said she is 80% done. This will be finished by early 2020.

Sorry if I came off a bit harsh in the spoiler tags but, wtf?

last edited at Nov 27, 2018 1:59AM

Isn't Dengeki released on the 27th? How are there raws already?

What would even be the point for the side story if not for Sayaka to get a proper relationship?

An artistic reason? The author wanting to say something rather than merely filling in blanks as fanservice?

A lesbian never getting a happy ending? How novel and creative, I've never seen that before.

@Doctor_Whoot, I think it's clear that @uncertain meant that the novel isn't just to give Sayaka a possible happy ending, it's the authors intent to say something of meaning about Sayaka's situation.

I think all three of you are being too abrasive in your responses here, can you please keep this cordial?