Forum › Posts by skulll

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

I have mixed feelings about recent chapter. I am happy and slightly disappointed. I wanted more nuanced interactions.

I don't know, but I also have some disappointment and a little angry from the new chapter. I expected them to be more passionate with each other (Touko was so passionate, what happened?), but everything is so quiet and calm in them as if they are already married and have been living together for many years. I understand that this is not so and there are nuances, but the general impression is, despite the fact that I am a big fan of the series. Up to this point, there has been NO ONE chapter at least disappointed me. Personally, I wanted more passion, which was held for so long. I really can't understand why Touko's passion disappeared. Now she looks like she really doesn't care.
But despite this, I believe that the author knows best how to tell this story and is not mistaken in doing so.

I don't understand what you mean by "passionate". Could you please elaborate what that means and what did exactly disappoint you?
If you mean making out and be horny/all over each other in a more sexual way, give it time I guess. They have just gotten together, so they are more in the lovey dovey aspect of a relationship than in the horny one. And Yuu did want to kiss ASAP last chapter.
Also, I don't entirely agree with BugDevil. Again, if by "passionate" , you guys mean being rather lewd, Touko has been shown to be pretty horny many times, and not just out of coping or frustration (which were also reasons in some situations). Chapter 9 "Do you want to listen?" , chapter 16 and chapter 20 are the first to come to mind as examples.
Then again, I am not sure if we all mean the same so maybe my comments aren't particularly appropiate.

last edited at May 30, 2019 4:21AM

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

Going back on topic, I am curious as to what the rest of the story here will be about. It would be nice if there is a timeskip.

I wouldn't say it's out of the question. But whether that timsekip happens towards the epilogue or in the last 5 chapters is hard to say. And if it happens early, how long will it be? I can't see them skipping out of high-school if it's not in the last chapter.

Sayaka's second light novel shows a timeskip to college. I wonder if yagakimi will end at the same timeline too, or if it'll do a bigger timeskip in the last chapter and show them as working adults.

last edited at May 16, 2019 12:02PM

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

^ Well, the multiverse theory can't be proved or disproved, but if it is true then not only does there exist a "YagaKimiVerse", but there also exists one where THEY'RE the real people and WE'RE the characters THEY'RE reading about in manga.

Imagine a Yagakimi alternative universe where Sayaka wins the Toukobowl. Or even better, Sayaka and Yuu get together

last edited at May 14, 2019 2:55PM

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

Yuu comes to grips with the fact that she's demiromantic and she's never going to have one of those "love at first sight fireworks" moments, though she can have plenty of fireworks with her lover now that they are together...

Yuu isn't demiromantic or anything like that. She's just a girl with an over-idealized view of romance. Most people don't have super passionate romances anyway. That's a thing of shoujo manga, and let's not forget this story starts by showing the audience Yuu is an avid reader of shoujo manga and romance literature.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch01#5
That's the context that informs Yuu's issues and should never be forgotten as it colors Yuu's every actions and thoughts during the course of the story.

When Touko rejected her, Yuu felt like shit but she tried to deny it. It's all about denial with Yuu. Her problem was never that she couldn't fall in love. She could and did fall in love with Touko very early on (maybe even at first sight considering her immediate reaction after meeting Touko, before Touko starting putting the moves on her). The problem was that she couldn't admit it because it wasn't the rose-colored over-passionate kinda romance she had read about in manga and novels. It was something much more down to earth. And when she did start feeling a bit of that passionate romance, Touko ran away. In order to bear the pain, Yuu told herself she didn't understand love after all. But Maki saw through her lie. Yuu did understood love and felt it. The pain itself was the proof.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch39#14

Maki is aromantic. Yuu is just an ordinary girl with unrealistic expectations and a nasty habit of denying her own feelings.

I mostly agree with what you said, but I don't think Yuu fell in love at first sight. She was just impressed with Touko's beauty since she is supposed to be very hot in-universe. Yuu wanted to fall in love at first sight, as she stated in chapter 40-, but it never happened that way for her. She fell in love due to her choices, she was commited to Touko even before she fell in love with her, first when she joined the Student Council to support her (chapter 5), then because she saw in Touko a chance to fall in love (chapter 10). Through the story, especially during the first 3 volumes, Yuu spends a lot of time with Touko and starts to enjoy being loved, while at the same time gradually starts to fall in love with her, until her feelings become much stronger in chapter 16, where it can be said she fell in love in a deeper, true sense. And that's how her love happened, by being commited to Touko and choosing her, in a gradual way. Sayaka, on the other hand, ended up having the love Yuu wished for- a big feeling out of the blue, as soon as she saw Touko- a love at first sight. Yuu's love fits her personality, dedicated in what she decides to do, eventually her feelings bloomed (good reference to the process of a flower blooming too). Touko's change on her view of love also took a long time.

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

Things have heated up a bit here...
Going back to the chapter, I find Yuu calling Touko "unfair" an interesting callback to previous chapters. She has used that word ("zurui" in Japanese) to refer to Touko in chapters 3 & 18. In chapter 3 because Touko was able to fall in love, in 18 because Yuu wasn't allowed to reciprocate her feelings. Here it has a difference nuance. While in chapter 3 Yuu looked like she was about to murder Touko, here she is smiling and doesn't seem to hold a grudge against Touko for experiencing the sudden big feeling of love former Yuu wanted.

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

Wait... Did they fuck??

Get the fuck out, dude. There’s more to romance stories than just fucking.

The truth has been spoken!
Seriously though, what's with people on this site and their fixation on sex in innocent romance manga or polyamorous ships that don't even make any sense.

Beats me. Can anyone who has such fixations explain it to us, please?

Some people don't believe in romance without lust.

Well, Touko's and Yuu's lust for each other has been shown before, especially in chapters 16 & 20. It's not like they are asexual. Whether the last volume will actually feature a sex scene or not, no one can really tell. Nakatani has said more than once that she enjoys drawing lewd, but whether she actually wants to draw it in her story and whether her editor will allow it, that's a whole different story. This manga doesn't need sex anyways, but after seeing Miyako and Riko cuddling in bed together, I wanna see something like with Touko and Yuu too (it happened in ch 22, but now as couple)

last edited at May 2, 2019 9:42PM

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

Yuu's speech regarding love was great. She has indeed chosen Touko so many times, probably even before she fell in love with her (like during chapter 5). Her love is the most relatable IMO, rather than some sudden giant feeling (like what happened with Touko and Sayaka), it was gradual for her as she spent time with Touko (I'll still joke about Touko's french kissu making her gay tho).
Touko has finally grown up too. And seeing Yuu crying and blushing was very cute, it reminded me of Natsuki's words in chapter 19. I feel like a proud mom watching my daughterus~

skulll
Citrus + discussion 19 Apr 22:43
joined Nov 5, 2017

Mei's character is so boring as always. I am fairly enjoying citrus+, though. I ended up hating original citrus because of the shit drama/writing and one-sided relationship between Yuzu and Mei, but here my fav girls Matsuri and Harumin have more protagonism and the slice of life and comedy bits are nice. I think Saburouta is better at writing comedy and SOL than drama, hopefully her next series will be like citrus+.

... Also,I agree with the Meibot nickname. At least Mei was entertaining during the very first chapters of citrus, being an alpha lesbian towards Yuzu and struggling with her abandonment issues and need for affection, now she's been autistic for a long time (I actually read a headcanon on Mei having autism somewhere). And she and Yuzu are so incompatible, no chemistry whatsoever IMO. If I didn't ship HaruMatsu, I'd go for HaruYuzu. #JusticeForYuzu you deserve better

last edited at Apr 19, 2019 10:56PM

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

I wonder how original romance stories can be these days, with basically every possible trope done already, it seems authors can only make their stories more creative by adding elements that make those tropes interesting and charming.
As for yuri as a genre, I think there could be more variety plot-wise if the setting is changed. I for once would love to read fantasy yuri, or maho shoujo, anything but high school setting. We have plenty of series like that but the romance between girls is either a secondary aspect or is kept on subtext forever. Murcielago is one of the few exceptions~

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

It is definitely overrated but it’s not bad either. It’s like a kind of walk that you go to
and has pretty scenery but has no ups and downs. No excitement and no disappointments.

It’s the opposite of “roller coaster” series like Citrus, that can give you high highs and low lows due to variability of writing quality.

It's not exciting for some people like you and that's fine. But I see a lot of fans really hyped for the chapters, especially the ones from volume 7 post Yuu's confession. Chapter 40, which is coming soon, it's the one that has the biggest hype I've seen for a yagakimi chapter.
If yagakimi is overrated, I guess that makes citrus the most overrated yuri ever (along with girl friends) due to its popularity and even people praising the writing... lol. I agree that citrus feels like a rollercoaster which makes it exciting in a way because the writing was bad and inconsistent enough for the story to go everywhere, which somehow made the plot unpredictable (though the arc pattern was predictable af...), the difference is that Yagakimi isn't predictable in a bad way. You know how things are gonna go, because it has enough foreshadowing and a consistent plot, the thing is not knowing what is gonna happen (because we can figure it out) but how is gonna be done. For example, I knew that Touko would reject Sayaka because it was the only logical outcome, but I didn't know how the rejection and chapter as a whole was gonna be developed. Chapter 38 was really well done imo.
As for citrus +, it's probably better than original citrus imo... because now there's not forced drama which made the series shit, but that also took away the "rollecoaster" feels lol at least best girls Harumin and Matsuri are more relevant.

last edited at Apr 17, 2019 4:46PM

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

On the chapter page for this series, “Volume 7” is spelled wrong. This is the most proofreading I’ve done for Dynasty in years loooool

The manga section should really be fixed! "Also known as Eventually I will become yours" that is a bad translation of the Japanese title (kimi means you not yours) that no one has used for years, it was made by the first fansub which had some mistranslations here and there. Everyone calls it YagaKimi, Bloom Into You or Yagate Kimi ni Naru.

Also, the special 6 is from volume 7, between chapters 36 & 37. It was out after volume 6 was released so it doesn't belong there. Same with the special 4, it belongs to volume 5, and the special 3 belongs to volume 4... Source: I have the volumes :p
Sorry for being picky //

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

Spin-offs I'd like to see:
1. Sayaka getting a gf in college (if she gets a third LN, which is very likely, but I'd rather see Nakatani do it even though I know it will never happen)
2. Midori and Manaka hooking up
3. Koyomi x author (age gap is delicious) and writing yuri fic of Touko and Yuu
4. Miyako x Riko slice of life
Don't care about the rest :v

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

^^
^
I definitely agree, but I feel in the minority when it comes to Maki. Most people seem to like him but I see him as a creep and as a clear plot device whose entire character is "I am asexual and I like watching others' romances". He is definitely not a bad person, he is a nice guy but yeah.

I understand the wishing the character to be otherwise, but I don't get the contradiction between "creep" and "nice guy/not a bad person"--creeps are not nice guys pretty much by definition.

Leaving the sexuality thing aside, I guess I can relate to someone who spent high school observing with analytical interest while other people engaged in behaviors and social rituals I had no personal desire to participate in.

It's not like Maki skulks around hoping to catch others in their private moments, and god knows high-schoolers tend to play out their romances as if on a public stage. He's just like, "Wow, those people are really into something I'm not, and it's fascinating to watch."

English is not my first language so maybe I don't know all the nuances "creep" has but I meant to say that, personally, someone who ships real people comes across as creepy to me. Just my personal take. It's like one of us 3D people start shipping other 3D people. Of course Maki is not a stalker and he doesn't hurt other people with this behavior and because of that I said he is a good guy, he even helped Yuu. It's just his great interest in others' romances that come that way to me. Like his smirk and slight blushing when he said "How interesting" in chapter 7 after seeing Yuu worried about Touko.

That being said, I don't dislike him. But in the writing aspect, he feels kinda flat as a character when compared to the others.

last edited at Apr 8, 2019 11:40AM

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

I definitely agree, but I feel in the minority when it comes to Maki. Most people seem to like him but I see him as a creep and as a clear plot device whose entire character is "I am asexual and I like watching others' romances". He is definitely not a bad person, he is a nice guy but yeah. Having an asexual character here would have been much better if his character wasn't reduced to just that, since I believe showing different sexual orientations in this manga is nice and fresh when compared to other yuri manga.

At least in the most recent chapter we saw a side of Maki that's different. He actually showed some regret towards being aroace, where before he seemd 100% contend. If he wasn't such a minor character I am sure Nakatani would probably explore it some more.

Idk, can you really call it "regret" ? Even in the last chapter he said he wasn't bothered about it, but I guess his expressions could show that he has resigned to stay like this.

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

^^
^
I definitely agree, but I feel in the minority when it comes to Maki. Most people seem to like him but I see him as a creep and as a clear plot device whose entire character is "I am asexual and I like watching others' romances". He is definitely not a bad person, he is a nice guy but yeah. Having an asexual character here would have been much better if his character wasn't reduced to just that, since I believe showing different sexual orientations in this manga is nice and fresh when compared to other yuri manga.

last edited at Apr 5, 2019 6:24PM

joined Nov 5, 2017

Wasn’t there a similar discussion over Nakatani Nio disagreeing with yuri as a label? IIRC she said she wanted to draw relationships between women (romantic or otherwise) regardless of how the readers classified them.

Not really. Nakatani said she didn't consider her Touhou doujins as yuri, because the nature of most of them wasn't explicit romantic relationships between women (some were, and she called those yuri, but those were a minority among all her stories back then). She saw her doujins as depicting different relationships between individuals that happened to be girls.
She has always called Yagakimi yuri and romance, this is not "up to the reader's interpretation" which is the point of Hagino's comments. So Nakatani doesn't disagree with the yuri label and actually embraces it with Yagakimi. Her editor even got mad some months ago at people who said Nakatani doesn't see her work is yuri.

Related: https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_volume_1_extras#2

last edited at Mar 29, 2019 11:32PM

joined Nov 5, 2017

Translation of Makoto Hagino's tweets (linked above) for the people who don't trust machine translation~~

"I have a certain way of how I want to tell my story, but that doesn't apply to the reader. People should have freedom of expression which applies to both the creator and consumer. I don't intend to define my work as yuri, but the reader is free to approach the work how they want. Rather than denying the reader's interpretation, I want to keep drawing what I want to draw, believing someday my opinions/ideas and worldview will be accepted".

https://mobile.twitter.com/93choco

last edited at Mar 29, 2019 4:20PM

joined Nov 5, 2017

https://twitter.com/93choco/status/1099948966492262400

She said her work isn't yuri for her because that's not her intention. But if readers see it like that, she doesn't mind. Her goal is clear. She also said "girls ship", the word used to promote this series, refers to friendship.
That being said, the story is cute and the struggles of the main character feel real. So who cares about them remaining friends forever, I only care about good writing. I have plenty of explicit yuri that I enjoy so I won't complain about this one not being part of them. Being good is enough.

last edited at Mar 29, 2019 11:32AM

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

Too bad Yuu sucks at Beisbol. Those balls didn't go anywhere near the target, even with all that form. :P
Inbefore Yuu defenders say that her wild emotions encumbered her batting skills.

With the amount of focus on Yuu failing every time I am sure it was done on purpose
... Or she is out of shape

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

On another note, I'm bothered by how weirdly… unparallel the last two pages are. Knowing Nakatani, I can't imagine that's not deliberate, but I'm not sure what it's supposed to mean.

What do you mean?

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

I disagree. I think that Nakatani had never shied away from showing their sexual attraction towards each other. No one expected ch 16, it happened. No one expected ch 20, it happened. & according to some reports from the open talk event from 2/26, ch 22 was originally supposed to have more underlying implications than what we got though the anime did make up for it with the melting popsicle symbolism. Not to say that sex will definitely happen, but I personally wouldn't be surprised if it does.

A kiss is still just a kiss even if it involves tongue. We have Riko-sensei and Miyako who are clearly in a mature relationship sleeping in the same bed and there was some very tiny implication that they did it that night, but that's the level we are dealing with here. Nakatani rarely ever goes the extra mile on this stuff judging by her other works.
I simply don't believe that any focus will be put on it at all.

Sex is part of romantic love (unless both persons are asexual, but that's not the case for Touko and Yuu), so idk why sex couldnt't be part of this (romantic) story. Nakatani has said more than once that she enjoys drawing erotic scenes in yagakimi (I guess she only meant chapter 16 so far, but she did say that scene is one of her favorites) so it's not highly unlikely for it to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't, I just simply wouldn't see sex in this manga as something shocking in the "omg I can't believe this kind of story had sex". Realistically speaking, I'd say it's 50/50 (just on whether Nakatani wants it, her editor accepting it is another thing) and that's just "being on a bed after talking about it, and then fade to black panel after some kissing maybe"

See, eroticism is something playful, like in chapter 16. It doesn't really break any boundaries, the only reason it even registered as something special to us is because the story is usually extremely tame. If this was Citrus, that scene wouldn't even register as "sexual".
I never said it's shocking, I just don't believe Nakatani will focus on it.

Lol. Dub-con hand-holding.

It’s a given that anything very explicit is unlikely in this series; we’re just having fun.

Of course, the latest Kase-san tank has thrown down the gauntlet on heatin’ it up while keepin’ it pure.

Well about that... some people here seem to see it differently lol

Lol, idk why citrus is treated as some manga with explicit sexual scenes where a French wouldn't even be seen as "sexual". As far as i know, there was never a explicit sex scene (or implied? I still read comments from fans complaining that the moment has not come yet). So besides French kissing that also happened here, i only remember one groping scene and hickey one.
Nakatani's previous works, according to her, weren't yuri (most of them) and only one of her doujins, as such, features a sex scene (between Yukari and Ran).
We have seen Miyako and Riko kiss and we don't need to see more because the story isn't focused on them and as an adult couple it's clear their sexual life is active, which is different from Touko and Yuu. Anyways, this "will they do it onscreen or not" discussion is based on asumptions so we had better end it here. Nakatani will eventually prove us wrong or right, I just personally don't think it's extremely unlikely.

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

Maybe they'll pull a Their Story and say "That day, Touko didn't show up..." and then the next chapters are ambiguous or they start focusing on the relationship with Akari and the glasses guy. Sayaka disappears too without reason.

I never found out why Tan Jiu did that to her plot. Oh well

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

So, how do we feel about a relationship where first sex is make-up sex?

I don't think they'll fuck first thing next chapter, but I sure hope they will at some point in vol 8. All those pent-up frustrations have to go somewhere.

Horniness where it's due, but this isn't that type of story. I have a hard time believing that Nakatani will even imply that they did anything sexual. If they both fall on a bed together and we skip to a black panel that would already be genuinly surprising. Maybe an off-hand mention during a conversation to it having happened off-panel.

'Tis all about the emotions and the rest is for us to imagine.

Sex is part of romantic love (unless both persons are asexual, but that's not the case for Touko and Yuu), so idk why sex couldnt't be part of this (romantic) story. Nakatani has said more than once that she enjoys drawing erotic scenes in yagakimi (I guess she only meant chapter 16 so far, but she did say that scene is one of her favorites) so it's not highly unlikely for it to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't, I just simply wouldn't see sex in this manga as something shocking in the "omg I can't believe this kind of story had sex". Realistically speaking, I'd say it's 50/50 (just on whether Nakatani wants it, her editor accepting it is another thing) and that's just "being on a bed after talking about it, and then fade to black panel after some kissing maybe"

last edited at Mar 3, 2019 5:13PM

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

This aspect is actually something I am very happy about! Because this establishes that Yuu has decided to confront Touko with her feelings despite thinking she will be rejected this time (unlike her 34 confession where she was too afraid to even face her). It shows that even if Touko had not resolved her issues that Yuu would have kept pursuing her anyway.

I am not totally sure Yuu thinks she will be rejected "again", I feel Touko's text message gave her some hope for a make up (considering the text message on her phone was bright and shiny too), but I do think Yuu would have confronted Touko and make her feelings clear to her even if she hadn't received that "hope" message. Would have been painful for Yuu but she wouldn't have been deeply afraid unlike chapter 34 (something similar happened to Sayaka, and her end regarding Touko was bittersweet instead of completely bitter). It shows growth on Yuu's side and I feel proud. Chapter 40 will also show Yuu facing Touko but in a more positive light than in the "what if she never received the text message" scenario, I think.

So, how do we feel about a relationship where first sex is make-up sex?

I wouldn't mind but the Student Council isn't the most romantic place for such an important moment... they could take it and continue at Touko's (or Yuu's) house but maybe the passion fire will not be as strong by the time they arrive :^)

last edited at Mar 3, 2019 4:31PM

skulll
joined Nov 5, 2017

Ehh... I see the symbolism of not being able to look her into the eyes, but Touko clearly expressed already that she loves Yuu for who she is rather than just being someone who stays with her despite never being able to love her.

When? Didn't this whole arc happen because Touko didn't know how to clear things up with Yuu? All because she was confused as to whether she could still love Yuu or not now that she had changed?

She actually established fairly early on that she loves Yuu because she is kind and accepting (which you can of course associate with staying with her despite not falling in love), but that the "not being able to love" aspect was just the initial attraction. She thinks Yuu is cute, funny, kind, just patient enough, but also able to make her flustered. Herein lies the issue. Touko has already acknowledged that she loves Yuu for who she is, but her fear of being loved is still there.

That's what her rejection is about. That's why she needed to be slapped taught by Sayaka that change is not a bad thing and that the love she feels for Yuu is more important than fearing that it might vanish. So no, the arc wasn't about Touko being unable to clear up her own feelings for Yuu, it was about her accepting Yuu's feelings.

The thing is that Yuu still thinks that she falling in love with Touko means she won't love Yuu anymore. I meant that Touko needs to leave that clear by saying that she loves Yuu entirely and didn't stop doing it just because she changed. I guess you can call it reaffirmation and I agree with that, but I also wanna call it confessions 2.0, which I believe will be much better than their original confessions (ch. 2 & 34).