they're better off together than they were apart

I think this isn't true, because their relationship is predicated on reinforcing rather than healing their problems. I think it's basically going to nullify the therapy; therapy isn't some magic cure-all for mental health. To begin with, they'd have to want to change, to make effort towards overcoming their problems, and that's not going to be the case while their 'needs' are fulfilled in this manner. Mea especially seems like she's prone to becoming more and more yandere from getting positive reinforcement for helping.

On the surface this is true, but at the same time you are putting a lot of stock into said therapy, even though we were not shown that it had any noticeable effect whatsoever. Because you are right, therapy is not a magical cure and sometimes it fails completely despite the best efforts.

This is a fictional story and as such must pick and choose the elements it will display, and it will generally display only those elements which are relevant, especially if it is a short story (as it has far fewer pages to play with and must make good use of each one if the writer is any good, and I think this writer is). If therapy was a viable alternative for these two specific individuals, we would have seen it presented in the story itself.

I assumed it's sorta a special facility and they are living there, as seen during lunch time it's only the two of them, it's probably a two people class. So it would make sense for Mea taking over all of Aise's schedule, and the hair lenght fits Mea without her hairclips (since it was near bedtime)

Edit:

But being her mom looks more likely after I reread it, since she's then seeing sleeping on the table so it hints to it being a regular house instead of an room/apartment.

Also keep in mind that the counsellor who assigns Mea to help Aise says that Mea "always arrives at school so early in the morning", which means that even if it is a school for kids with special needs said kids seem to commute there from home. The credit page also has the counsellor's ID card singled out and it seems to say it is a middle school, without any mention of it being a special facility.

That's all well and good, if you reduce their identity down to exactly one trait. But humans aren't just one trait. If other aspects of their personalities clash, they might break up later.

The complementing issues they have are far more than "exactly one trait", so you are actually the one being reductive here.

Assuming that Mea doesn't outright kill her when that time comes, they'll still be in an even worse position than they are now, having fully reinforced each other's unhealthy mentality rather than addressing it.

As someone commented elsewhere, Mea immediately regretting her actions at the end when she pushed Aise down the stairs shows that she is an actual person with issues rather than just a stereotypical manga psychopath. I can not see her killing anyone here.

It is true that they are reinforcing each other's unhealthy mentalities, but I still maintain: they are better off together than they would be on their own. Neither is shown to open up to other people and Aise in particular would have been likely to commit suicide in the near future if not for finding support in Mea.

I can't see this as a happy ending at all.

Never said it was a happy ending.

Mea might want to do it but I'm not sure she actually enjoys it, as shown on the page where she's helping Aise out of the bathtub and Aise sees Mea's tired expression (which she quickly turns into a smile). That was what ultimately prompted Aise to tell Mea to stop caring for her. So yeah, Mea is gonna have a breakdown sooner or later at that rate. Mea just doesn't know any other way to get close to people than to taking care of them.

Could be. To me when I read it the first time it looked more like she was simply struggling with physically supporting Aise (in the bathtub scene) and then Aise reading too much into it (because she already expects everyone around her to feel bothered) rather than Mea feeling drained, but your take would also make a lot of sense.

Edit:

That wasn't Mea, that was her mom.

Nicely spotted, I also thought it was Mea. Different hairstyle and the fact Mea would not be taking care of Aise at her home should have been a dead giveaway, but my brain just completely overlooked it. Then yeah, I stand by my original take regarding the dynamic between Mea and Aise.

last edited at Oct 3, 2022 5:21PM

I think the mom probably returned to remission from her alcohol dependency.

I think so as well. Explains why Mea so desperately jumped at the opportunity to take care of Aise, she needed to fill the void left by her mother no longer needing her care.

I kind of expected a horror fest for the sake of simple shock value after that opening, but it quickly turned out to be a serious and well crafted story and I was pleasantly surprised. I especially liked the realism with which the characters were portrayed, particularly the main girl. An alcoholic single parent who depends upon her daughter for support through the drunkenness and actively rewards said support with expressions of affection and love, creating a positive feedback for the child. No wonder Mea came to regard her mother's alcoholism as a good thing and felt helpless and abandoned once that positive affirmation was taken away from her.

It is not really a common situation, as most alcoholic parents are physically and psychologically abusive towards their children, creating a negative feedback that would hardly have the kids actively wanting their parents to continue being alcoholics (the mother here is psychologically abusive but in a different way). That being said, if the kind of situation depicted here actually developed, I could absolutely see the child taking on these really messed up sets of values.

The mother never tried talking to Mea, explaining the situation before and after getting clean, and lashed out violently when Mea tried getting her back into her addiction (which was absolutely the wrong thing to do, the child was not really aware of what she was doing and the violent outburst just deepened the feeling of rejection on her part, though I do fully understand how and why the mother snapped under such circumstances). All of which just worsened the situation.

Though, to be fair towards the mother, next to nobody in her place would think "my child might actually like me being an alcoholic because I seriously messed up her values system". I doubt that actual therapists would even pick up on this possibility, let alone the alcoholic themselves. As realistically as the mental development Mea went through is depicted, it is a really uncommon set of circumstances, which is an element I greatly enjoyed. Having this unlikely situation (a strangely non-abusive, or as close to that, alcoholic parent who gives the child positive affirmation through said alcoholism) but then developing it in a detailed and realistic fashion.

All of which made it painfully obvious what would happen when Mea was later paired with Aise, a person in dire need of someone to take care of her due to her injuries. Aise herself was also fairly well fleshed out as a character. I especially liked how the story avoided the cliche of having her being a needy person paired with someone in need of a needy person. She is in definite need of help but she also resents and regrets that and feels bad over it, seeing herself as a burden on others.

In a way, as messed up and unhealthy as both of their perspectives are, I think they are actually better off being together than either of them would be on their own. They are a perfect match, Mea gets someone who genuinely needs her support and, more importantly, will always need her, fulfilling the deep-seated urge in Mea to be needed, while Aise gets someone whom she is absolutely certain wants and even enjoys taking care of her, thus relieving her of the feeling of guilt over being a possible burden on someone else.

As a side note, I liked the detail of Mea exhibiting yandere tendencies but also having a functioning moral feeling as well, as although she pushes Aise down the stairs she also immediately regrets it and understands it was wrong of her to do it.

On another side note, I also liked the art style, I think it actually fits nicely into the mood and themes of the story itself.

Meta -
I think a lot of the meta debate needs to be moved into another thread because it’s becoming a massive buzzkill to see the same people arguing in the comments over the arcana of translation and what does yuri REALLY mean, to the point that it’s drowning out any and all discussion of the actual work. I dropped out of grad school to get away from people arguing the enjoyment out of everything I found interesting, and it’s really bad vibes to see that sort of circular argumentation happen here. It’s just really tedious y’all.

Truth be told, there is not much to discuss story-related, it is a 4-page Twitter short. At least a quarter of the thread is discussing music and bands, which is honestly at best only tangentially related to the story proper, with the actual song list being pretty vanilla. At least another quarter is people doing what you are doing now, complaining about other posters. I would say both of these take far more space than an occasional discussion about translation (I myself was involved in a brief discussion regarding Mitsuki's actions that at the time I looked totalled 7 posts in all, and all of them fairly civil - but there were 19 posts that commented on the people commenting, many fairly rude - I think it is kind of self-explanatory where the problem actually is).

last edited at Sep 7, 2022 4:23PM

You see my point? If anything, by saying she's not sure if it's "yuri," Arai is (most likely) saying it won't end in ambiguity or subtext.

I actually do not see your point because you keep deliberately repeating the same lines while completely ignoring the thorough debunking that was provided previously on more than one occasion. The term "yuri" is used in Japan to refer to both the "pure/ambiguous" stuff and to the sexually/romantically explicit content. There is a small part of the Japanese fanbase that does not ascribe to this (basically the Japanese equivalent of the western "shoujo ai" crowd), who insist on using "yuri" for "pure/ambiguous" stuff while reserving the term "rezu" (from "rezubian" - "lesbian") for the explicit material.

It is a telling usage of terms because "rezu" is seen as being derogatory in real life in Japan, which is why actual lesbians there prefer to use "bian" (the other half of the word) instead. As a result, apart from the "purists", the manga industry as a whole uses "yuri" to refer to the whole genre, as do most of the fans. The same way western "shoujo ai versus yuri" crowd is shunned by the majority of the fanbase, the Japanese "yuri versus rezu" is as well, which is why you will not find many more examples for "yuri" meaning "ambiguous stuff" other than that 12 year old afterword that you keep linking.

To be exact she used the term 愛情 which can mean love/affection. It contains the kanji for romantic love and the kanji for feelings. Since she opposes it to Yuri and in the same sentence talks about struggling in her sexuality in the past, I think she means that /in that specific manga/ she doesn't want to write a yuri romance, like, say, Hana ni Harashi, but about feelings of attraction/affection between girls. Ie, the confusion of feelings of a girl who's attracted to another girl but can't put a name on it.

Which means they may not become a couple and date, but may come to acknowledge their mutual attraction. And that will be the end of the manga

What the scanlator said, and to me this does sound as a warning for an ambiguous ending, which is the exact opposite of what you continuously claim.

last edited at Sep 7, 2022 3:13PM

Lizstar posted:

The first chapters established two well fleshed-out, attractive, adorkable female characters with delightful amorous chemistry engaged in a comedy of romantic errors that we all hoped would result in a yuri love relationship. Now we find it's never going to happen: they will just be buddies who share a hobby. It just takes all the excitement out of the game.

....Wait is this a thing???? Oh no. ):

Not really? It's just speculation. We have running bets on the Discord and I'm happy to report yuri end is in the lead.

Why are you deceiving the poor people... The wager is currently at 3 for yuri (with one of them stipulating it will be an implied future relationship), 3 for not-yuri (friendship or ambiguous). It would be 5 for not-yuri if some people were brave enough to risk suffering should they lose. Good news is that all of us wagered something scanlation-related, so whichever side wins, Dynasty as a whole is benefitting...

I will say that this chapter doesn't unambiguously take Tsuzuki's side. Kashiwai is really going through it right now and needs support, but Tsuzuki's dedication to her rules prevents her from offering that support.

Nah, I think it was a good call on Tsuzuki's side. As Simca summarised above:

I think this chapter made it pretty obvious (at least to me) that Kashiwai wants monogamy (upset over ring, unwillingness to work around Tsuzuki's existing partners, etc). She's just a monogamous person who was in a "this is the best thing I've got" relationship, and Kashiwai entering the picture was a shocking lesbian/bisexual revelation that she wants all to herself. Kashiwai calling off her own wedding was a result of her interest in monogamy.

Giving special attention to Kashiwai at the expense of her other partners would just further feed this problem. Her anguish comes from her inability to truly accept polyamory, be it for herself (since she broke up with Jun even though it obviously hurt her to do that) or for her partner (as she is clearly upset that there are other people involved with Tsuzuki).

I imagine bending the rules if a situation truly called for it would be something Tsuzuki would do, say, if one of her partners had a death in their family and needed support right now and so on. But because of what is causing Kashiwai's problems here, doing that would be the worst thing Tsuzuki could do and given her experience on the matter she probably understands this, hence why she insist on following the rules. The sooner Kashiwai comes to grips with the nature of this relationship, the better, for her just as much as for everyone else involved. Granted, all of this is something that she really should have thought about well in advance.

We're still traumatized by Nettaigyo.

Nettaigyo author also explicitly stated that her story will not be yuri, which was pointed out a number of times to the readers on Dynasty over the course of the manga. Most just willingly disregarded it because the subtext was so thick you could slice it with a knife. That being said, the author there went a step further than Agu and also explicitly stated it will be a work about close friendships and the struggle with loneliness. By comparison, Agu's statement is far more ambiguous.

Point is, if anyone was traumatised by Nettaigyo, they have only themselves to blame.

@flowsthead: "And the corresponding implication that to keep that from someone is a form of violence, which would then necessitate a violent response." I... genuinely do not get this part... why would someone equate this with violence in the first place, much less react with violence in return? If this was a situation in real life, the most that would probably happen would be that the people in question would break contact.

...it just depends on the relationship you have and the conversations you've had until this point.

This is the factor I am focusing on. Broadly, I agree with you regarding privacy. In fact, personally, I get extremely annoyed whenever someone tries prodding into any aspects of my privacy, no matter how minute. However, what makes this situation different is that 1) Aya did not prod at all; and 2) Aya was very clearly trying to establish at the very least a friendship, and highly likely also a romance with Mitsuki, which Mitsuki was aware of.

It is not a "relationship they have" (at the moment), but it is "building a future relationship". The reality is that while the other party has no right to demand to know any specifics about you, you also can not build any kind of a relationship without sharing some of that information of your own volition, and the deciding factor here is that Mitsuki enjoys and encourages said relationship, at least in her "onii-san" persona. She is not an innocent bystander swept into this against her will, she is actively building a social interaction that anyone with a modicum of sense ought to know can not go on indefinitely based on lies, direct or by omission, about something as basic as one's identity.

There are also factors here that you did not take into account in the post you pasted me. Mitsuki knows that Aya has a romantic crush on her "onii-san" persona and is pursuing likely more than just mere friendship. Presently she has no reason to think Aya might be into girls, and this then crosses into just straight-up stringing someone along (or at least, it is a reasonable assumption for Mitsuki to have under the circumstances). Like, at what point do we transition from "my privacy" to "cruelty"? Your "it is sexist to demand to know someone's gender" completely fails to take into account that there are relationship that vitally rely on this information, such as sexual pursuits and romance (and Mitsuki knows for a fact that this is the case here).

Like, at one point you kind of lightly touched upon this aspect ("when physical intimacy comes into play then discussions of how you go about that should also be above board"), though you did not specify gender, instead spending more time developing the religious analogy.

Another point is that Mitsuki is not just some random stranger whom Aya never saw without the mask, she is also Aya's classmate and literally sits there listening to Aya gush about "onii-san", being privy to information that Aya would be deeply embarrassed to share openly within earshot of her actual romantic interest. In a way, Mitsuki is privy to some aspects of Aya's privacy that Aya would probably not be so outspoken with otherwise, while Aya is privy to nothing regarding Mitsuki.

In other words, Mitsuki knows that the other person is pursuing her romantically (and she knows this for a fact thanks to the circumstances of their unequal relationship), she knows this person thinks they are pursuing a guy, she has no reason to think this person might be bi (we as readers are privy to that because of the character bios, and the whole setting surrounding the manga itself, but Mitsuki has none of that knowledge). You have put a lot of emphasis in your post on the present tense, that they are not dating at the moment, but I should think it would be obvious these same standards apply to attempts to date someone just as well.

All of this makes me believe Mitsuki had an obligation, a moral one if no other, to come clean long before now. In fact, I hoped she would come clean of her own volition (though those hopes were quickly diminishing with each chapter, after seeing how desperate she was to keep up the pretence). Being caught, by contrast, is a weaker outcome that did not rely on any of her positive traits finally prevailing.

@Blastaar: I thought it was obvious we were discussing how the readers reacted to and interpreted Mitsuki's actions. How Aya will react is up to the author. This whole "lol, judging fictional characters under real world standards / ethics tribunal / morality court" shtick has gotten old over the years, especially since you only apply it very selectively, mainly when you encounter an unfavourable remark under a work you personally like.

last edited at Aug 21, 2022 7:57PM

^I agree. She was aware of the misunderstanding and chose to let it stand- and even tried to make sure the misunderstanding wasn't found it- which falls short of lying imo.

It does not fall short, actually. Lying by omission explicitly covers situations where one party makes a wrong assumption and then the other party deliberately does not correct them and leaves them to operate under said wrong assumption. Mitsuki lied here, that much is beyond dispute. Especially once she transitioned into just straight up purposefully maintaining the misunderstanding, such as concealing her face outside work whenever she happened upon Aya and threatening Jerkface to stay silent.

One could say she had her own reasons for wanting to not be found out- she had no obligation to clear it up.

Are you serious? Not baiting, legitimate question. Aya was pursuing a personal relationship, be it friendly or romantic, with Mitsuki. Mitsuki was well aware of this, and in her "onii-san" persona she actively encouraged it and willingly participated, all the while deliberately leaving Aya in the dark. On what plane of reality can this be seen as "yeah, she was totally not under any obligation here whatsoever"? It is a shitty thing to do to anybody, period, regardless of the reasoning behind it.

And her "reasoning" boils down to "I am an introvert, she is an extrovert, the two do not mix", which is a laughably thin rationale for someone to do what she did.

last edited at Aug 21, 2022 5:47PM

By the way, I don't translate the title of the chapters, even though Agu gives them titles, because Amarrez never did, but in this instance, the title has significance.

This chapter has the serie's title on twitter: 気になってた人が男じゃなかった

Which, in this instance, means "The Guy I Was Interested in Wasn’t a Guy"

So, Agu tells us that Aya indeed realized that Onii-san and Koga are one and the same.

No need to search for other interpretations.

Thank you, Kirin-kun, for clearing that up. Imho it should have been transparently obvious -- I mean, Aya had already realized that Koga had Onii-san's voice, Onii-san's eyes, Onii-san's piercing holes, it was only one more small step to realize Onii-san is Koga -- but judging by some of the previous posts there was indeed a need to straighten it out.

There is actually more nuance here than just that. The series title is actually 気になってる人が男じゃなかった ("The One She Is Interested in Wasn't a Guy"), while this chapter deliberately uses the past tense instead ("was interested" instead of "is"). Amarrez, the original scanlator, used the past tense for the series as a whole for some reason, so this nuance is mostly lost on the audience here.

last edited at Aug 21, 2022 2:43PM

Oh nooo she doesn't look happy!

This chapter makes me worry, not because of anything happening in the story, I think they'll work it out, but because I think this means we'll be finishing this story soon. This feels like a point of no return.

Unless this goes on after they start dating! :o I like when stories do that.

To add a layer to your worries, individual chapters have their own titles in the original and these were not translated in the scanlated version, also the overall title of the series is not actually using the correct tense in English. The series is actually titled "The One She Is Interested in Wasn't a Guy", present tense. This chapter, however, is titled "The One She Was Interested in Wasn't a Guy", past tense (ironically, the tense the scanlated version has been incorrectly using since the beginning).

last edited at Aug 21, 2022 11:54AM

^^^ But I am pretty sure that is how muscles work. Which is also what is confusing the poster beneath you. The image and the proportions are fine, the lady in the front is simply buff.

It's not my intention to be rude here, but I find this tolerant attitude towards extremely blatant pedophilia deeply repugnant. I believe it is within my rights to express my opinion.

You believe wrong, this discussion was had many times and examples have clearly showed that expressing your issues with loli material in this particular fashion (by making sweeping unsubstantiated accusations of paedophilia against other users) is not acceptable here. This is not actually a public space, you have only those rights that the staff sees fit to grant you, and the "right" you are claiming for yourself here is not on that list if past examples are anything to go by.

last edited at Aug 19, 2022 10:00AM

This is not okay - https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/posts/803316

How is anything this person said incorrect though?Please, explain it to me.

You need explaining why saying "you're all pedophiles" is unacceptable and against the rules?

This is a messed up ending. Noa quit her escort job presumably to take up the secretary job, did not bother to tell Amano, leaving the latter heartbroken. Why? For out-of-universe reasons, so that we can have "the reveal" at the end. In-universe, it makes sense only if Noa is a colossal sadist.

Plus, this just puts them in an even more awkward position, now that Amano is literally her boss. Dating people whose continued employment depends upon you is one of the worst decisions you could make in this regard.

Not really feeling the whole "doing it with a drunk and vulnerable person" thing, chief.

They were both drinking, so it was not a sober person coming onto a drunk one. Neither of them was really plastered. There was no typical manga "no means yes" trope, Miyamoto did not refuse Sasaki's advances even once. And the next morning Miyamoto did not regret it. There is no problem here.

I thought we were well and truly past the "does gay stuff ---> just a prank bro" stage. I was so hyped up when they kissed, and then Kishi pulled the old 2010's VE move...

I think it'll be interesting when Riri has the situation flipped back on her: now she's the one choosing an impossible one-sided love over someone close that cares about her.

Is it really a choice? If love was a choice none of this would be happening.

last edited at Jul 28, 2022 2:07PM

Sigh... Sucks this series is gay bait according to interview with author.

the author just didn't see this as "yuri" but Woman loving another woman situation (like a gender based) also she loves matured girls if u see her other works js.

I mean, this is an old discussion at this point and we have all more or less agreed to drop it and see what the future will show, but there is no need to sucker in people with pushing the wrong information. There is a reason someone posted that meme with "not speaking Japanese and using Google Translate to justify myself".

"Woman loving another woman" (or to be more accurate, "women's love", as that was the phrase in question) comes from a machine translation. Machine translations for Japanese are notorious for being bad. Japanese language is difficult and very big on being vague and a lot of meaning being dependant on context and the translation software is simply not equipped for that. There is a reason why machine translations are so despised in the scanlation community.

What Agu actually said was "I would not call this yuri, it is more affection/friendship between girls". The actual translator working on the series commented on it as well. The correct translation was posted a number of times. I understand the urge to cling to hope, but there is no need to spread misinformation. Maybe it will turn out gay in the end regardless, but in any case the author did not say what you wrote here.

"I'm gonna go give birth for a bit!"
SO NONCHALANT?!!?

I don't understand. How does a woman with another woman get pregnant?
Assisted reproduction?

I think Lilli is right and the author is probably simply straight. But I just wanted to add a little tangent on this, as not many people know about it. In Japan in order to get approval for in vitro fertilisation you have to be legally married, which currently means het marriage by default. Same-sex partnerships do not count. Single women also do not have the right to undergo in vitro.

Similar regulations are in place regarding adoption, only legally married (het) couples can adopt in Japan. Adoption is prohibited for single women, single men, and same-sex partners.

Also, we do have this image of the very strict japanese high school but we have to keep in mind that these strict high schools depicted in manga and anime are the private ones.

Most of the schools depicted in anime and manga are state schools.

This school setting of this specific manga is probably a co-ed public school — and not saying that’s always the case, but in many many places public schools are just lax with their rules. I doubt that Japan is any different. I have seen some manga depicting such thing (schools that seemed lawless).

Japan is different. School rules in the Japanese education system (especially in state schools, which is most of Japanese schools) are notoriously strict. Dress code, hair code, behaviour, loitering after school hours, sometimes even the type and colour of students' underwear is regulated. Japanese students can get in trouble with teachers if their hair gets a lighter shade over the summer due to sun exposure.

And students who stand out (dyed hair, piercings, tattoos, clothes that are against regulations, being openly gay and so on) are not only liable to get in trouble with the teachers, but are also in many schools practically guaranteed to be relentlessly bullied by other students. Bullying in the Japanese education system is widespread and specifically targets students who dare to stand out from the crowd.

Japan has high rates of depression and suicide amongst its students (high school, college and even primary schools). In fact, during the last half a decade suicide rates amongst Japanese students have continuously gone up. This is partly because students are routinely expected to have high grades (by both their teachers and their families), partly because of bullying, and partly because of oppressively strict school rules and regulations.

last edited at Jul 11, 2022 2:12AM

I'm confused. How does one person having a crush\obsession and two people who seem mostly if not wholly interested in platonic friendship equal a love triangle?

It is there if you squint enough.