I really like Bara a lot. I really like to see two boys chuu each other... Never once i fantasize about being a big hairy man to kiss another big hairy man... reconsider some things maybe

Today I learned Bara and Yaoi are not necessarily the same thing. Thank you.

they are considered entirely different genres. Yaoi/BL is mostly made by women for women, Bara is for the demographic of gay man that are also bears/chasers (and me as an intruder i guess lol.) tho the two are slowly blending together, in some ways, nowadays :D

You know, I've always wondered if there was a type of genre terminology of bara but for lesbian women. It certainly exists like you know when you see art that depicts lesbian relationships by a lesbian rather than a man but there's not really a term for it.

Most lesbian artist I follow have a “anime style” plus a litte more muscle or hair (very much limited to big eyebrows or armpit hair, if its nsfw a bush) but -sadly- I have never seen a lesbian artist draw women in a similar fashion to bara. Even masc x masc japanese artist use bifauxnen. The furry scene in japan is mostly dominated by gay men too. Honestly I have found more fat, hairy women in straight hentai

last edited at Aug 22, 2025 4:39PM

There are many instances I've seen where certain Japanese fans will have a, let's say, odd attitude about accepting trans women as part of yuri. My point was that the author might be sincere in their depiction of a trans character, but be wary of how they use the term "yuri," so as not to deal with any issues around audience expectations. Hence, the "it's not but it is" response they give. I'm not as concerned with random Japanese comments. They are not any better than random English comments.

With author and readers, I mean objective readership, not just the japanese one. “odd attitude” is transphobia.
My point is that, the author's remark can either be to avoid transphobic fans or because they themselves are transphobic. I personally don't think theorizing about whether or not the author is bigoted or an ally helps the conversation, because we don’t know, so using the author intention to analyze whether the basis of the story is or not transphobic doesn’t work. That will depend on each person, how they see the world, they lived experiences, etc.

This series is officially tagged as yuri on its home site, and the author seems to primarily make yuri series. Also, based on my reading of the future chapters, I would call this clearly yuri.

Awesome!

I've seen authors avoid using the term "yuri" in many series that are very obviously girls' love. Even "The Green Yuri" author has avoided using the term and discussed being uncomfortable with the expectations of it for her series. We would not question that one, right? I would not say the term is less restrictive in Japan; based on my experience, it's the opposite, because for some, it seems to come with some expectations beyond just involving women.

I think those are two different thinks. Western creators have the “my story my rules” mindset meanwhile Japanese authors tend to feel apologetic when they break the common structure or “aesthetic” of the genre they are working on -specially if we are talking about commercial works-. It feels like a warning. “I am sorry if this doesn’t feel like a XXY, I hope you keep supporting this story” it’s very common.

About the versatility of the term between West vs Japan. Agree to disagree. Honestly it depends, when you read japanese articles about important yuri series from the past, Rose of Versailles is always there, never have I seen Dear Brother mentioned, even if it is “more yuri” than RoV. But then we have the resent discourse around Rock is a Lady’s Modesty in the west. It is a interesting topic.

last edited at Aug 20, 2025 6:26PM

It's also complicated because the author said it looks like yuri but is not yuri, and repeated that twice. That could be because of how "yuri" is used in Japan and the sensitivity around it. Still, I thought it should be mentioned.

I hope this doesn’t sound rude but what do you mean with the sensitivity around it in Japan?
I mean the term -in Japan- is used for any gxg relationship, from ambiguous relationship, close friendships to confirmed lovers. I would say that people in the west are far more restrictive with it.

So the fact that the author and readers don’t see this as Yuri means that they don’t see our FL as a girl. (and with readers I obviously don’t mean trans people tired of ambiguity or people genuinely worried about how the narrative is going to handle her transness)

last edited at Aug 20, 2025 12:56PM

I think the ending is quite sad. They (the audience) is going to unfollow

Or well, you can see it in two different ways, if you read the chat you can interpret the last part as unsuscribed, or you can interpret it as a new audience aka a new follower

last edited at Aug 17, 2025 1:16AM

Thank for the translation

But I have a question, Shiho says “How about you fuck me?” But at the interview she says that is exausting so she is going to make Nanao top next time. So I am a little confused

Why do some people question this as yuri or not?
It's clearly from Yuri Hime anthology, bruh. Ofc it's yuri.
Whether the story is MID AF or not is a different case.

Right? Nothing bad in wanting the story to be explicit about what kind of feelings the girls have but yuri also encompass “more than friends, less than lovers” type of connection between girls

That's a bold statement when majority of yuri last 3 volumes or less. The ones that get to double digits are the exceptions, not the norm.

My wording was bad sorry. I didn’t mean that the norm for Yuri is 300+ chapters like a battle shonen from the SJ. Some long run Yuri’s are focused on the development of a romance/couple (having a fantasy element -Murcielago, A monster wants to eat me and, I want to love you until you die- gives you more material to work on) and to extend the story authors tend to add drama or miscommunication and it often becomes tedious or repetitive. So my comparison is because mangas in the SJ extend past their prime and become monotonous and then when a series is shorter and concise is assumed to be canceled. Even though the average yuri has three volumes, if you read the comments, it is assumed axed if it ends in two or one volume. But I must add that even if Yuri Hime tends to go from one or four volumes maximum (with some exceptions) it’s easy to find long run Yuri in seinen magazines, Murcielago, Octave, Nameless asterism, Ohana holoholo, Vampeerz, and also, depending on what you consider yuri we have Rock is a Lady’s Modesty, Akebi’s Sailor Uniform, Dragon Maid, etc.

Likewise, my initial comment was not negative or with the intention to belitte that type of story, I am the type of reader who thinks “This is not for me anymore” and move on. I remember Citrus with affection. I like those kinds of self-indulgent stories, though I ocassionally wonder if its the author who wants to continue or is the magazine asking them to.

Saburouta my beloved! I love how she draws hair and eyes, always so detailed

honestly, not just Citrus, I think yuri tends to suffer the Shonen Jump syndrome, some mangas get prolonged past their prime and the story gets, boring, insipid, etc. That’s why it surprises me when I see a yuri with one or four volumes and it surprises me more when I read the comments insisting it was axed when someone already said that the author planned it as a short series.

I always enjoy when horny yuri isn't afraid of including a strap. This was pretty amateurish tho.

Another point to korean yuri

Korean yuri good with the strap? Got any examples? (For science, ofc)

Drunken Relationship, Immoral Parody, Sora and Haena (I don’t really remember But it was the first time I saw finger condoms), Damp Ascension. And those are all that I can remember

I always enjoy when horny yuri isn't afraid of including a strap. This was pretty amateurish tho.

Another point to korean yuri

god bless you creampan

There's a very common sentiment among the more amateurish parts of the yuri fandom that Class S is an outdated genre driven by historical compromises and editorial restrictions, rendering it unable to express a 'true' lesbianism because of its focus on symbolism and subtlety.

I agree 100% that westerns have a very closed way of perceiving queerness and are quick to catalog what is and what isn’t queer, unables to accept others perspectives.

When I read lesbian comics from the west that are realistic, they do not look very different from the high school american movies I have seen. Basically, their stories for me are also "unrealistic" but I understand that they work in a context different from mine and with that understanding, I navigate them or at least don’t judge them.

Class-S and sisterhood are probably my favorite tropes in yuri. They are unique, I like the stablished dynamics and aesthetics.
Although I differ a little, even if class-s did not have subtly queerness, it would still be good. I don’t think yuri needs to be queer or realistic to be signifcative or valid.
I understand the value She loves to cook She loves to eat has, but its not my cup of tea as I am not searching for that in yuri.

For example, platonic lesbian relationships in japan were expected-normal in adolescense and outside of yuri, even nowadays lesbians are seen as sexless. So for me yuri having sex scenes, women masturbating, etc. is more subversive than the use of labels.

Otherside Picnic had a “intimate” scene and some reviews in amazon jp were complaining. I saw something similar with a Thai GL fanpage when the protagonists had a bed scene (it was tame lol). Obviously this is not Class-S fault but a example of how this has shaped readers in accepting a specific type of yuri and how fans reacts to more “straight forward” lesbian interaction. Korean yuri suffers from this treatment of not being “real” yuri.
So, as you said. It is a bit fascinating because a lot of what people like about (japanese) yuri derives from Class-S, simultaneously don't liking it but at the same time when a manga completely deviates from the vestiges of class-S the scrutiny of What constitutes a Yuri begins.

But I also believe that this is a topic with multiple angles. A few years ago, Hanamonogatari was re-edited in Japan and the sleeve used the word "Yuri" and the phrase in it was something like "when lilies were still a secret" and japanese lesbians were angry because the media and everyone avoids using the word lesbian. When I Favor the Villainess was aired in japan, some were angry at the LGBT talk. So what is and isn’t subversive also varies depending on your context.

This discussion can go back to what is “queer”. and that also varies from person to person. Even what many non-western people consider queer is based on western queerness. I also think the idea that yuri=lesbians is what generates this discussion.

But I must also contradict myself and say that it stresses me that one can never criticize yuri because suddenly you are a man, you are lesbophobic, have never read yuri and likes shojo/bl, are ignorant about the history of the genre, I am reading in bad faith, I didn’t understand the plot, want to restrict lesbian expression,etc. sometimes it borders anti-intellectualism.

isn’t this just the yuri version of “super attractive perfect girl ends up with antisocial loner whose sole redeeming quality is that they are somehow the first person to ever show basic kindness to the girl”

I think what sets this specific 'antisocial loner' from the other cliché ones is that she has her own hobby (sumo and piano classes, can't tell if she enjoys those) rather than constantly being miserable about being an 'outcast'. We can tell she's into literature (not the common archetype of being a secret weeb).

She's also her own character. She's not like certain self insert male protags that are the "nice guy" type or w/e.

There's nuances to these things lol

I mean no one is comparing her with a male self insert protagonist, just naming cliches. Both characters clearly fit an archetype, the loner girl is a otaku and the other girl is a ojou-sama/young lady.
An archerype means that they share specific/notorious traits, not that they are exact copies with 0 differences or nuances. Subaru from Re:zero and Kirito from SAO are basically the same dude but still have a lot of differences.

I never said anyone was and yes I know. I simply stated an observation based on how I think the self insert male that's the "nice guy" is one of those types, and how there's nuances to the various types of characters that can fit under an ultimately broad umbrella.

Oh ok, I just thought it was strange to jump to male self insert protagonist as if the person was insinuating some kind of similarity between the two.

isn’t this just the yuri version of “super attractive perfect girl ends up with antisocial loner whose sole redeeming quality is that they are somehow the first person to ever show basic kindness to the girl”

I think what sets this specific 'antisocial loner' from the other cliché ones is that she has her own hobby (sumo and piano classes, can't tell if she enjoys those) rather than constantly being miserable about being an 'outcast'. We can tell she's into literature (not the common archetype of being a secret weeb).

She's also her own character. She's not like certain self insert male protags that are the "nice guy" type or w/e.

There's nuances to these things lol

I mean no one is comparing her with a male self insert protagonist, just naming cliches. Both characters clearly fit an archetype, the loner girl is a otaku and the other girl is a ojou-sama/young lady.
An archerype means that they share specific/notorious traits, not that they are exact copies with 0 differences or nuances. Subaru from Re:zero and Kirito from SAO are basically the same dude but still have a lot of differences.

Yuuki was the most interesting character here, love her for being a fellow ntr enjoyer

I am disillusioned to be honest I was expecting a hot mess but it was more comedy oriented

last edited at Aug 3, 2025 8:30PM

isn’t this just the yuri version of “super attractive perfect girl ends up with antisocial loner whose sole redeeming quality is that they are somehow the first person to ever show basic kindness to the girl”

More than the yuri version this is quite the common plot in romance manga, “the incredible perfect beauty has never be seen as her true self” because they are so beautiful and perfect that no one has ever show them real friendship, just admiration, etc.

I need to get this out of my chest but whyyyyyy japanese yuri always skip the sex, whyyyyyyy

Is rushed and all that but its a one-shot so it makes sense, what I don’t agree is that this is a poisonous fucked-up self-loathing lesbian story, is 100% wholesome. The way her circumstances were show felt the same as when an author wants to kill a character but want you to feel bad for them so out of nowhere you get a full chapter about their sad childhood

I like the guy friend well enough as a character, but does he really have to be more of a main character than the girlfriend?

I will mention on this point that this manga is more so about Himeno and her interactions with the people in her life (there are more characters later on besides Hajime) rather than just strictly being about her and Yoru's love life, if that wasn't clear already.

Granted, even when she's talking to someone else about some other topic it often wraps back around to being about Yoru in some way so...

There are multiple chapters about Yoru and/or the two together though (reminder we got 82 chapters to go)

I think part of why Hajime is so prominently featured too is that the author is primarily a BL writer, and Hajime actually existed in their doujins before Himeno came into existence, so he's sort of a foundational character for this universe. There's even an entire BL manga set in this same universe that's just about him where Himeno is just a small side character. So that's why I think the author wanted him to have an important role in this manga, as Hajime is clearly a dear character to the author.

But yeah I wanted to mention all this so people don't have the wrong expectations. You should consider this more of a slice of life kind of thing where romance is a bit more secondary (though it still plays a major role at multiple points)

I just saw this comment but the author is not primarily a BL writer, she doesn’t have much mangas (but all of them are romance) her first work was this (2021) and then she used Hajime and realesed a spin-off (2022) and her lastest work is a het romance (2024)

toxic yuri’s fine, but wholesome yuri’s better!

I’m assuming the artist is on their lapidot arc rn (I hope and pray there’s a bunch of work) which makes sense cuz in the show, Jasper and Lapis met first before Lapis met Periodot…

90% sure at least, it’s been a while

Anyways, I like this ship, wish we saw more of them

This doujinshi is from 2018…

At first I was happy because I thought it was going to be ntr, then it went for the “we are both girls so it doesn't count” and was no longer happy but then it didn't end in ntr. Awesome

It is indeed cute and wholesome but can u really count this as yuri? It seems to lean more toward subtlety than yuri. The characters are not in love, and there dont seem to be explicit sexual attraction between them.

Kiyoko Iwami drew a oneshot of 20 pages where a college girl gropes a high school girl's boobs and makes her let out a moan. Within an hour of meeting her for the first time. But sure, nothing gay happened here.

I know what you mean but even if it sounds too fictional, it is true that is normal for girls-women in japan touch each other boobs as if it was nothing. I know big boob girls that got asked “Oh yours are big can I touch them?”

Nooo, I wish she would have vomited in her chest. Yuri lacks real weirdness

As someone who doesn't have a vomit fetish I am very glad she didn't throw up.

I mean she tried to follow up on that with something sexy, I'm sure most people would've just killed the mood

This seems like a good time to link the most wholesome yuri of all time:
https://dynasty-scans.com/series/kitanai_kimi_ga_ichiban_kawaii

I love that one

last edited at Jul 19, 2025 7:48PM

Nooo, I wish she would have vomited in her chest. Yuri lacks real weirdness

"This yuri lacks real weirdness" considering it's from Iwami Kiyoko. If you're familiar with their work, like Ano Lemon Kajitte, you’d expect something bizarre or just plan weird, since they often lean into unusual or unique concepts. That said, compared to most yuri, this still ends up being pretty weird (and also pretty cute imo) :)

I think is a little funny that every time someone express some sort of dissatisfaction about (a) yuri someone always jump to say “you haven’t read enough” “you are being unfair with the genre” or whatever. I know the author and I use tags, I keep what I say. Yuri need more weirdness, more vomit and menstrual blood.

last edited at Jul 19, 2025 7:45PM

Nooo, I wish she would have vomited in her chest. Yuri lacks real weirdness