There's the lightly toxic Dumb Mutt Girlfriend (https://dynasty-scans.com/series/dumb_mutt_girlfriend; by the same author as Destroy It All) and Story About Buying My Classmate Once A Week (webnovel: https://avelilium.com/story-about-buying-my-classmate-once-a-week/; comic: https://dynasty-scans.com/series/a_story_about_buying_a_classmate_once_a_week_5000_yen_for_an_excuse_to_spend_time_together), but we don't have many chapters outside the webnovel for the second.

Also It's a Detatched Relationship (https://dynasty-scans.com/series/its_a_detached_relationship). It's by the same author as Face You Shouldn't Show, but it ends before it could really get going. We got 4 volumes though and the ending is okay.

One of my favorite comics is the lesser known Bing Jiao Meimei Zhi Xiang Rang Wo Qifu Ta. It's about an author who gets transmigrated into the body of the villain of the school setting story she was writing, mainly the author likes people crying and being hit. Unfortunately you can only find it on sketchy sites with invasive, often pornographic ads. I use Suwayomi (https://github.com/Suwayomi) to download it from Kali Scan. Suwayomi is somewhat confusing to set up, but very convenient. No more refreshing 1000 sites.

There's also My Intern Bullied Me Again! for some lightly toxic arcs. Some later arcs about other characters aren't at all, but it's fun if you like over the top drama.

Another favorite of mine is Our "Love" is Disgusting (https://dynasty-scans.com/series/our_love_is_disgusting). It's both about people with unusual sexual interests influenced by how the characters process homophobia and people about who express love in ways that are destructive, with the title being a double meaning.

If there's more I want to know about them.

last edited at Sep 6, 2025 9:12PM

We got some more not toxic "toxic" yuri. My money is on the whole series being like this, with cute interactions and the pet play being how they process what they're not yet ready to talk about.

That is one interesting boyfriend, not that there's anything wrong with that.

"Boy"friend?
(I know he might be a boyfriend, "A Cute Guy" from Tatsubon have a great development on that line, but I'm taking my bets on that not being a bf but a gf and she had a little slip before telling out for the way of the addendum)

Yuri work combined with the panicked reaction afterwards makes it clear it's not a boyfriend, especially from what else I've seen from this author.

The other gyarus are likely putting on a tough act to seem confident while dealing with their own secrets and insecurities (as everyone does). MC is clearly feeling fake to some extent, so I expect learning more about each other to be a bonding moment for them.

It's quite likely that there's more going on with the bullying or previous interpersonal conflicts that we don't know about that contributed to that situation. The story is told from the president's perspective, who is somewhat sheltered, so she wouldn't know about everything that goes on in the school.

"Now it's the flowers, what's next with you?" makes more sense than "Lets go straight to accusations and dumping water on this student we've never had any trouble with before." Likely the bullied student was chosen to take the blame because of that context.

What is fiction good for if you can't say "wouldn't this be fucked up" and run with it once in a while.
That is to say, this was pretty fucked up lol (neutral statement, I don't read enough toxic yuri to properly judge, although the bullying and student president worship was pretty extreme)

Nobody peed themselves or received piercings, so it's pretty mild as these things go. Either that or there's a bias in the type of comics I read.

I agree with others that the character reactions were exaggerated, but I would attribute that to a combination of the story style and its one shot nature. Imagine that, in an earlier chapter that, the narrative establishes that the president has crazy fans or that the bullied girl has crazy enemies, one of whom likes to carry around box cutters. The events of the story would follow more naturally.

Destroy It All and Love Me in Hell! has a lot of events that are on this level. Since the events have more set up and everyone is consistently behaving in a dramatic way, no one really questions it anymore. I'm sure those who didn't enjoy that type of narrative also stopped reading.

Personally I'm hesitant to give money to a website that breaks up chapters into multiple parts to get more money and then as an alternative allows you to sign up for a bunch of sketchy data harvesting websites. I wouldn't be surprised if following the affiliate instructions involves installing secret cryptocurrency miners claiming to be a game and similar. That seems like a company I should be giving as little of both money and information about me as possible.

Maybe someone will be willing to step up to challenge your sanity in the mean time. It seems like jhonathan is biased by the idea of assumed transgender characters being used to regulate acceptable gender expression (ie, if a boy likes feminine things it means they can't really be a boy). This isn't an entirely unreasonable fear, especially if they or someone they knew encountered attitudes like this, but it seems like a non-story bias coloring the interpretation at least as much as trans readers identifying with the MC.

last edited at Aug 21, 2025 9:09AM

In this case it's more like a fictional woman wanting Superman's traits: his physique, his ethics/moral standing, how people socially relate to him, etc. If this fictional woman starts crying in response to their primary and secondary sex characteristics, people might start questioning if they are really a woman or if the focus on Superman is a cope to think about the specific type of man they'd like be.

Again, that last part is not specific to trans people: everyone thinks about the type of person they'd like to be, for the most part. It's not like everyone except trans people have hopes and dreams, but trans people live and die for their gender only. Even a trans person might see living as their preferred gender as simply a means to broader life goals, much like how anyone might get a health condition treated because of what they could be doing if it's cured.

last edited at Aug 20, 2025 5:44PM

@jhonathan

Given the context of the work, that's normal. Also what he's envying is only the body, what they want is to have the appearance of a maiden, that's not what being trans means. He's not envying her identity as a woman, but her physical features, ones that he now has a man. What he needs to get past, and the work shows it, is this closed view of the world, the idea that for being born male he cannot enjoy the same things as girls, also he needs to stop idolizing woman. The girls showing interest in his male body comes as a way to show that they aren't as pure as he once believed and that his male body has qualities

Being trans means having dysphoria and benefiting from social and/or medical changes that alleviate a sense of discomfort or wrongness. What you describe is completely adjacent, neither confirming nor denying this reading. For instance, I would say most teenage girls the protagonist's age would like to be seen as cute, kind, friendly, and non-threatening, regardless of trans status. A teenage boy could of course also feel this way, even if it would be more atypical of his demographic.

Edit: To put this more simply, to the people who read the MC as being a literal maiden, the MC wanting to be maidenly will very much fail to qualify as evidence to the contrary.

last edited at Aug 20, 2025 2:27PM

@SrNevik

There are many instances I've seen where certain Japanese fans will have a, let's say, odd attitude about accepting trans women as part of yuri. My point was that the author might be sincere in their depiction of a trans character, but be wary of how they use the term "yuri," so as not to deal with any issues around audience expectations. Hence, the "it's not but it is" response they give. I'm not as concerned with random Japanese comments. They are not any better than random English comments.

This might be the approach I would use, just from a marketing perspective, if I knew my readership was as you describe. Write the hopefully positive and non-stigmatizing story and then let the reader decide how to categorize it as long as they're paying up, thereby achieving a neutral to positive social impact and a chance that enough people like the story for it to continued being published.

Not that anyone asked my opinion, but... if a reader, based on chapter 1, is going to be extremely upset if the story doesn't develop a certain way or handle specific topics in a particular way, it would prudent to stop reading now. It's fiction; no one is forcing you to read this and suffer.

At the very least, come back after a dozen or so chapters are released and check if it's a good fit for you.

Personally I am comfortable both reading stories about people of different gender identities and orientations, as well as with quitting if it ever crosses the line for me on how it handles topics. A cis male teenager who aspires to be more like a kind and confident heroine would also be a development I'd appreciate seeing more in fiction, assuming that turns out to really be author's intent.

@SrNevik

Light spoiler stuff

Well, that's encouraging, but not necessarily surprising. I've found alignment on language issues and categorization isn't a good predictor people's level of prejudice toward minority groups. Some people are completely clueless, but listen and adjust their behavior. Other people's words are beyond reproach despite their harmful behavior when it counts.

My expectations of language alignment are even lower for a foreigner speaking a different language and coming from a different social context. Despite that, so far nothing has been mean. The humor more focused on the absurdity of the type of situations MC experiences, like being labeled "the legendary delinquent Oniwatari" when they are really a shy person who wishes they could put others at ease. MC has even been framed as someone who deserves to be protected. This type of design invites sympathy from the reader without making the topics feel too dark and discouraging.

If it continues with this tone, I won't have any issue with that aspect. Not everyone will be okay these situations being used for humor, but it's similar in structure to how many real people use humor to process difficult experiences.

Whether the story and characters will be good is another question. It's funny how little discussion of that there's been.

last edited at Aug 20, 2025 12:34PM

I think we need more chapters to know what the author meant, but someone crying when they see their genitals at least doesn't read like a typical cis male experience. It's also clearly not just because the MC wants to be with the heroine. The MC imitating her even before being reborn and is more comfortable with the new presentation. It goes beyond love of a specific character.

The main thing against this is "man who wants to be seen as cute and nonthreatening" and "pure hearted male yuri fan" are much more common in manga than "trans female character whose identity is taken seriously". Much like seeing an implied yuri pairing in a manga not explicitly advertised as yuri, my expectations here will be low until more is confirmed.

Either way, MC is coming from the bio essentialist standards of their society as well as the standards of the game to which society gave birth. It's likely someone assigned male at birth is not allowed in this girl school, just as they would not have been in much of the world in many time periods. I see acknowledging this (ie that such a person would be seen as tricking others and suffer the social consequences) as different than validating real world prejudice. MC is written more as nonthreatening and socially clueless than anything, the complete opposite of stereotypes like "predatory" and "dishonest" that are used to stigmatize trans women.

last edited at Aug 19, 2025 7:06PM

@FiddlePop

I can't man --

I never thought that stealing someone's lip balm can be so be intense and comically evil.

"Batman, do you know what this is?"
"No, Joker, don't do it-"
"Yes Batman, this is a lip balm, and there is no law stopping me from throwing it in this river"
"N-no, don't do it"
"I'm gonna throw it"

The lip balm that broke Wakaba's back

It was also quite the exaggerated reaction to the melon candy, where Komaki could have predicted the hand and hid it purely to shame Wakaba more.

We can tell the author was successful in selling it by all the anti-Komaki condemnations coming out, but the specifics of it were silly and over dramatic if you detach from the context. That's like much of the story really, though I happen to like that style of story telling.

last edited at Aug 18, 2025 7:47PM

Yeah it's not that bad, just a maximally edgy prison setting where the vibes take precedence over logic. It's easy to make fun of it, but that's because it was interesting enough to capture one's attention in the first place.

Yeah I don't read this to see people being nice to each other. Let the suffering commence.

What I'm getting is that, even if Wakaba does still like her, Komaki feels like she no longer deserves or can have that kind of relationship. She feels must sabotage herself instead. She may be intending to try to separate Wakaba from Matsuri as a repeat of what she did with whoever that boy was that I don't care about. This seems unlikely to work. Either Matsuri is being honest about being a nice person who cares about both of them or else she is secretly evil and super manipulative. In neither case will she act generic background extra guy and go along with isolating Wakaba.

last edited at Aug 17, 2025 3:05PM

@Zesc

Not trying to argue for Caku here, but that first paragraph misses the point. Yes, this isn't sex ed - nobody claimed it is or should be. Doesn't change the fact some people might not enjoy such a trope for various reasons. Imagine the point instead was the narrative cliché of portraying savage populations in fantasy almost always with cultural references that are decidedly not caucasian or east asian. Or how suspiciously much asexual representation in fiction is in the form of non-human and/or unemotional characters. It's perfectly fine for people to simply not like or even criticize such an authorial decision.

No single work can be held responsible for greater societal problems, and you can't categorically condemn elements of fiction (daily reminder that Magneto is a jewish member of a secret cabal with advanced technology and an agenda of world domination and population control who controls rare metals) but shutting down all attempts to discuss the topic via highbrow dismissal is most surely not helping anybody. Doubly so since BDSM (especially in the unrelated horror genre) is associated with some really skewed ideas that cause real harm.

Besides, these two are morons. Ill intent is given on the MC's side at least, but so far all their BDSM was teasing, semi-serious pet play. Tonally, I doubt they'll be able to really harm another.

My take here is that there's plenty of reasons for feelings to run high with regards to both positions, given both bdsm and wlw relationships are stigmatized significantly. Being worried about a clueless third party treating the work as validation of their prejudices is understandable and feeling protective of or identifying with a work that involves those themes are both ways of responding to same situation.

Also yeah, there is real downplaying of risk or imitating harmful behavior from fiction by people within BDSM. There is outside it too, but often not in exactly the same ways.

While I enjoy some darker works, I agree this one isn't likely to be like that. The evidence is that they were low key obsessed with each other, that they still are, and that they will continue to value each other a lot. It's looking like one of those stories where the question is how much stupid stuff are they going to do before they can admit it to each other.

last edited at Aug 11, 2025 2:39PM

From what I can tell: She likely likes acting and wouldn't want her career ended or- at least, it's her one marketable skill that she takes pride in. What she doesn't like is the pressure to embody a pure and innocent persona she can never fully live up to, nor being treated as a tool to further mom's career or goals.That's the big difference between how Hase and Misa treat Io - Hase's 'care' is only to help Io embody that image and role better, while Misa is okay with Io being herself and will be on team Io regardless of what happens with Io's career. Io's insecurity gets displaced onto sex, which Misa is understanding well in how she responds to validate Io.

It's hard for me to say this is meeting Io's emotional needs, but it's the closest either of them know how to do that. Also, on some level nothing could make up for what Io's been through, so I guess like, good for them? At least you extracted some short term benefit.

Real world morality aside (this is not the way to handle important discussions in a relationship), Misa has shown herself to be constantly thinking of Io's well being for quite a while. It makes their dynamic enjoyable to read about and it seems like there won't be much they can't handle as a team if they get through this. We don't know what messed up stuff Io's mom will do, but we may be past drama within the relationship itself.

Im calling it now, Niji is gonna write Azuki into her story as an antagonist and make her out to be a predator somehow.... infact, gender being wrong aside, shes already in the process of doing it!

Shes also gonna be crashing so hard real soon and its gonna be full of yikes.

This will be a good way to add tension to the story since Remu is pretty forgiving, but won't go along with it if Niji creates problems for Azuki. I argued Remu would ultimately forgive Niji for the fiction, but Remu is very protective of Azuki. She would hate for Azuki to get into trouble because of her.

There is also some potential with Meguru finding out about the story or the Azuki/Remu dynamic. That dynamic may now be accurately recorded into the story, including Azuki referring to Remu as Meguru. Meguru would not take that well.

@coolsnail

Given Remu is a teenager, I don't take her claim of "only dolls" any more seriously than the stereotypical yuri protagonist claiming they could never like a girl. Romance manga like to use ironic framing, like her saying this to her future love interest, early on in the story, while a teenager like Remu can be expected to still be figuring herself out.

the rest of your post aside, because it's all splitting hairs and i'll agree to disagree... being a teenager is not too early for that, at all. when you're talking about fetishes, they start uncomfortably early -- childhood, very often. i have an exclusive fetish like this and i've had it since i was probably 8 or 9. it shaped all my early development for several years to come and into adulthood, and my experience here isn't unique.

sure, her sexuality absolutely will develop and may broaden with time and experience. i hope it does, for her sake, and ultimately it's the author's call. but in my eyes, they're deliberately setting up her experience and feelings as "other", so narratively it would be pretty terrible to just drop that for a nice neat resolution ("actually, she's healthy and normal!").

the yuri example is also irrelevant. if a girl in a yuri claims she's straight, it's 99.9% of the time a form of comphet, or just ignorance. straight is default(tm) so she just never thought too hard about it, and it's intimidating to go against the societal grain. but remu is already aware she doesn't fit and she isn't default. that ship sailed! why would she be wrong?

Because the characters are also dealing with a form of what you call comphet. Arcane articulated this well earlier.

Arcane:

It's not toxic "love" so much as toxic "roles". Fetishes are a form of ritualistic substitution behavior that arises in societies where sex and gender roles are heavily policed by social consenssituation. rural Japan). A fetish is basically a ritual where taboo behaviors are acted out through an object or ritual that takes the place of the desired action or behavior (fetishes are sociological rather than psychological). The "disgusting love" in the title is just that old trope of homosexuality's repression in a deeply heteronormative part of Japan. If the fetishes are themselves "disgusting" it is because they hint at the characters sexual orientation. I can assure you that these characters are actually rather normal given their sistuation.

In light of what I just posted, there's a different meaning to Meguru and Azuki's conversation. Meguru is sitting there with Azuki's bodily fluids on her hands, which of course is pretty close to what happens with digital penetration (lesbian sex). Thus Meguru has to be the cop here, reinforcing sexual taboos (Azuki's feeling is not love or romance, which are socially acceptable, it's just animalistic desire, which is verboten) and keeping herself and Azuki in the socially acceptable category.

-https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/posts/930658

Remu is saying "I only like dolls, so I'm safe." Why do I think that? Because every other character is using sexual displacement to deal with their emotional issues around attraction to women as well as that attraction's stigmitization. That's probably also what's motivating Remu, with her young age being why she hasn't realized yet.

You are also framing this as a "choose one" situation, but it needn't be. The dolls can be fundamental to Remu even for her entire life, while still allowing for attraction to real humans. This involving her doll roleplay / modeling would be a very natural evolution as well as something she wouldn't have had a way to know about before. I am also arguing that "dolls only" could be healthy, even if it were really her only sexual release, and not inferior to more mainstream approaches. Still, as a character in this particular story, I will be surprised if she is right.

last edited at Jun 26, 2025 9:38PM

Given Remu is a teenager, I don't take her claim of "only dolls" any more seriously than the stereotypical yuri protagonist claiming they could never like a girl. Romance manga like to use ironic framing, like her saying this to her future love interest, early on in the story, while a teenager like Remu can be expected to still be figuring herself out.

If we take Remu's statement seriously, she does meet your definition. That's not the DSM definition, which not only says nothing about if it's the only means, but requires "distress or impairment in functioning." This describes Azuki very well, but probably no other character. This also has nothing to do with how people were using the word fetish in this thread, even though the DSM definition is certainly interesting and relevant enough to the story to discuss.

My true motivation here was only that I hoped this story would help people be more thoughtful about the way labeling could negatively impact people in unusual situations. The author understands this well.That's why I didn't get into "What is the correct term?" Using some other term in a stigmatizing way would have much the same effect, while I generally try to mirror people's definitions to get at their ideas instead of policing their word choice.

last edited at Jun 26, 2025 12:01PM

I will at least acknowledge that sucking on clay dolls is much more niche than a fixation on breasts above other erogenous zones or secondary sexual characteristics, which exists in many cultures (not all of them) throughout many time periods.

Remu's preferences don't seem to cause a lot of issues for her outside social judgement, though. I am still skeptical of her claim that only dolls can do it for her.

last edited at Jun 26, 2025 11:09AM

You may be misunderstanding me. I am attempting to describe how the term fetish is used socially in the real world, not what its 'appropriate' use is or its DSM style clinical definition. It's not a term I would ever use on my own. My argument is that "Is the characters' fetish normal?" is not a good metric because, if it were normalized, the people in this thread would be coming into this discussion with the view that it is not a fetish.

last edited at Jun 26, 2025 9:38AM

I find it strange how focused many people are on women's breasts (at least in the culture's I'm familiar with), but society won't let me get away with calling that a fetish precisely because it is normalized.

Here is the first definition that pops when googling fetish definition:
"a form of sexual desire in which gratification is strongly linked to a particular object or activity or a part of the body other than the sexual organs."

Breasts are literally sexual organs, therefore it is not a fetish. Enhanced why many people like breasts. We are probably wired to like them.

Breasts are not a sex organ, at least in the sense of that definition (whatever definition you use for sex organ is fine with me). Sex organ in this sense refers to reproductive organs. Breasts aren't used in reproduction, but for feeding babies.

Many people have sexual feeling when their breasts are touched in certain ways, but this can also be achieved with other body parts that aren't used in reproduction.

Since you like quotes:

"A sex organ, also known as a reproductive organ, is a part of an organism that is involved in sexual reproduction. Sex organs constitute the primary sex characteristics of an organism. Sex organs are responsible for producing and transporting gametes, as well as facilitating fertilization and supporting the development and birth of offspring. Sex organs are found in many species of animals and plants, with their features varying depending on the species.

...

In animals (including humans), the male sex organs include the testicles, epididymides, and penis; the female sex organs include the clitoris, ovaries, oviducts, and vagina. The testicle in the male and the ovary in the female are called the primary sex organs.[1] All other sex-related organs are known as secondary sex organs. The outer parts are known as the genitals or external genitalia, visible at birth in both sexes,[1] while the inner parts are referred to as internal genitalia, which in both sexes, are always hidden.[2]

...

The primary sex organs are the gonads, a pair of internal sex organs, which diverge into testicles following male development or into ovaries following female development.[8] As primary sex organs, gonads generate reproductive gametes containing inheritable DNA. They also produce most of the primary hormones that affect sexual development, and regulate other sexual organs and sexually differentiated behaviors.

Secondary sex organs are the rest of the reproductive system, whether internal or external. The Latin term genitalia, sometimes anglicized as genitals, is used to describe the externally visible sex organs. "

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_organ

Note that "secondary" is not referring to "secondary sexual characteristics" (non-reproductive traits to correlate on a sex basis), but ducts, glands, and things like that that aid in reproduction.

Anyway, I don't really want to get into a debate here. I am not criticizing anyone, while my own preferences are of the stigmatized, non-normalized type, so that would be an extremely high stress debate for me. You can nonetheless see that a large focus on breasts could be argued to fit your technical definition of a fetish, despite the fact that no one would describe it that way. The fact that you see the preference as biologically mandated shows the extent it's been normalized relative to other types of preferences.

last edited at Jun 26, 2025 8:31AM

Given how Meguru looked like she was about to start spiraling in chapter 2 until Remu threw a plush at her https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/our_love_is_disgusting_ch02#22 from the mention of a love triangle in a commercial on tv, I think calling Remu better adjusted is fair.

Lol, I forgot about that. Remu literally is telling Meguru to suck on a doll.

She certainly is the most well adjusted, while I'm not sure normality is the right metric by which to judge a fetish. I find it strange how focused many people are on women's breasts (at least in the culture's I'm familiar with), but society won't let me get away with calling that a fetish precisely because it is normalized.

last edited at Jun 25, 2025 5:06PM

folks niji has come online, prepare for impact

That makes sense, thank you for clarifying.

I always chalked this up to be a mangaism, like daughters all wanting to marry their fathers and similar. In yuri, the characters are frequently in denial about liking women at first too. My exposure to other Japanese entertainment media is limited though, so you could be right. This still is more extreme than the vast majority of manga I've seen, which I think is why it got this strong reaction from people. It's on the level of explicitly BDSM works like Yuri SM or some of the less extreme parts of Face You Shouldn't Show, or some of the weird seinen depictions of actual assault. More people can pick up on the less extreme examples in typical works.

last edited at Jun 24, 2025 2:54PM