I'm not buying this romance between Mei and Yuzu. They have an extremely shallow relationship in which Yuzu only likes Mei because she's pretty, [...].

And she's diligent, serious, and Yuzu finds good points even when outsiders find it unreasonable.. Ohmygod! Would it be possible that Yuzu is... In love? Like with all the irrational behaviours and thinking that comes with it?!

Add to that that Yuzu is a nice girl with probably a saviour complex, and it's easy to see why she loves Mei. Remember as well that we don't see everything, Saburouta choses to focus on the drama most of the time, but they may have nice behaviour. Just look at vol6/7 how intense and sweet their relationship is, it makes sense. And it's easy to imagine Mei falling for Yuzu as well.

And being pretty is/looks are important in a relationship, or in the process of falling in love with somebody.

It's also possible Yuzu is just a 16 year old who has no experience in life, and is making a big mistake. Unlike a lot of readers, I don't think Mei is a bad person, but she is who she is at the moment. Mei is not ready to have a high-stakes relationship with anyone because she can't communicate properly, she acts selfish (even when she thinks she is doing it for other people) and has cripplingly low self-esteem which usually leads to making bad decisions. Yuzu is setting herself up to suffer in the long run and it seems completely unrealistic that her own mother would accept that without at least a deeper conversation.

That she accepted Yuzu coming out is somewhat OK (still hard to believe in Japan), but that she accepted Yuzu to be in love with Mei without at least warning her daughter about all the consequences, and just saying "Yuzu you are ready" when the girl is in high school and Mei and her dated like puppies for like half a year is insane. But now I understand why Ume and Sho were painted as irredeemable screw-ups from the start...it was so that Saburouta could have the easy way out with this whole thing.

Also, please. For anyone to think the relationship between Mei and Yuzu is intense or an example of 2 people deeply in love, can only be because they don't have a lot of relationship experience lol It just seems "intense" because they are trying things out for the first time, and because Saburouta focuses on facial expressions and drawing every second of the (barely there) action. The reason many readers think HaruminxYuzu should be end-game is because Harumin is the only person in this story with whom Yuzu is consistently shown to have a deep enough bond that would maybe justify a long-term relationship. I myself ship HaruminxMatsuri for the kicks, but can't deny that. If we are meant to think Mei and Yuzu are a great couple outside of the drama scenes, why can't Saburouta simply show that? I mean, she shows Yuzu and Harumin spending quality time together all the time. I suspect it's because that's not her intention; we ARE meant to understand Yuzu and Mei's relationship is likely a mistake. Even if they end up together. Isn't that why the title is "citrus"?

last edited at Jun 18, 2018 7:48AM

booo i wanted Harumin to be the final boss hahaha

Same. So disappointed. Next thing is Gramps telling Mei that if she wants to marry her stepsister, "By all means go ahead, why didn't you tell me before that's what you wanted?". And we find out all this drama was in Mei's head.

EDIT: I wonder if there is any chance we get an official HaruminxMatsuri ending here :-(

last edited at Jun 17, 2018 9:55PM

Gosh, this chapter was so anti-climatic and unrealistic.

Ok Citrus is unrealistic but this coming out was bad writing. There is no way mom and dad would be all OK with this, for God's sakes Ume had the girls sleeping on the same bed all this time!

Other than that: Harumin's reaction was strange. How are we supposed to interpret her sad face when Yuzu told her she loves Mei as lover? Was she sad because Yuzu hadn't told her before or something else? Looks like Matsuri got kind of sad too, presumably because Harumin came out as straight indirectly by saying Yuzu goes that way (without saying she does too lol).

last edited at Jun 17, 2018 8:16PM

Nimsy, I agree with Blastaar above, even if we are always disagreeing (well this is a forum after all) and I have been on the "lol shitty dialogue" before your explanations, they have been great. Please keep it up.

Do not use the translation as a way to judge the author’s wording and the characters’ speech pattern. There is a gap, and it is normal. Sara’s way to talk isn’t really strange in Japanese. More the contrary, she is very direct and pushy but stays polite (cause Japanese do not ask private questions directly) in her way to help Yuzu to open up or to enquire about Mei.

Yeah so I gathered it's a mix of translations and cultural differences most likely. Doesn't mean it's not frustrating though lol Because the conversations could go much more in-depth but instead its like, we the readers wait all this time just for dialogue breadcrumbs that never directly address any issues.

Edit : concerning Harumi, i am not surprised and i wonder why people are so disappointed by her behavior. Entire volume 5 shows Harumi to avoid conflict and complications about other’s affairs, including friends. All 4 chapters, she tries to convince Yuzu to stay discret, to fit in the mould at school and to tone down her desires of individuality. So she is very in character here... maybe before a change of mind.

I'm not surprised about Harumin doing nothing and effectively preventing Matsuri to take action...but for me this just goes to show she isn't that good of a friend, and I hope she has a purpose in the story by the end of the manga. Sara's simple questions about Yuzu's well-being, on the other hand, improved Yuzu's situation in just 1 day.

Something I don't understand in this manga is why people don't talk like normal people. Even the way that Sara talked to Yuzu about Mei, in a way it's up to interpretation, nothing is directly said. I find it so frustrating. It ends up coming off as fake and meant to produce drama and the impression of complexity where there isn't any.

I can really empathize with Matsuri, the only person in this series who says it as it is and seems WTF-ed lol Pretty sure she is meant to represent the readers. And now even she is numb to this whole situation thanks to Harumi "my bff was depressed for 8 months but I don't give a sh*t" Taniguchi.

last edited at May 21, 2018 11:28PM

The chapter was yawn-inducing. The only thing I liked was the "revelation" that Mei is not allowed to have free will. But we already knew that, and if Yuzu didn't, she is a moron.

Does anyone besides Matsuri_wins actually read that dude's posts?

A few people gave them opinions on their posts before, so I assume yes but just a few people? Their posts are pretty interesting in content if you ignore the verbosity x)

I read the raws, Yuzu has a threesome with the twins!

...Or if that happened it would have been more fun. Actually this is turning out boring af, after reading fast-paced manhwas there is indeed no turning back. If next chapter is as boring I'm gonna drop it.

Wow, this was such a long post lol. You sure write a lot. I will try to be as brief as possible in my response.

The reason I compared Mei and Anthy is simply because they are both characters suffering emotional abuse (well also sexual abuse in Anthy's case) and taking it. They are both people who have accepted to be paws to others, to be means to others' goals, and mostly acting in passive-aggressive ways towards life.

In the case of Utena, the story in my view is not supposed to be taken literally (otherwise it doesn't even make much sense) but rather interpreted in the same way that a myth is interpreted. Utena is essentially a story that depicts the "growing up" myth of women, and a discussion of what it means to be a woman in this world, just like the vast majority of myths are representations of the growing up process of men and the role of men in the world. It is the only story that I know which does that to such an extent. Anyway, point being, the characters are not meant to be real people, they are just archetypes.

Which is what I meant by Mei being a "low key" Anthy. Citrus is just a romantic story, and the characters are meant to seem like real people to a certain degree, but Mei is like an instance of the "Anthy archetype". In that she has basically so far resigned to give her life away as sacrifice for the sake of other people (her grandfather/family) due to not valuing herself and conditioned really by the old-fashioned ideas of what it means to be a woman. She needs to produce a heir, she needs to marry a man who can help her manage the academy etc in other words, she was not raised to be an independent human being with her own goals, thoughts, feelings. While apparently accepting all this and even justifying it, just like Anthy she shows a distinct bitterness towards the whole thing, that manifests in the end as a kind of self-destructive cruelty and selfishness towards others and herself. And a kind of obsession with her polar opposite that represents everything she deep down wishes to be but does not have the courage yet to be (so Yuzu here is an instance of the "Utena" archetype). The "backstab" which in Utena is literal (again because Utena is a mythical story), in Citrus is of course Mei's "Dear Yuzu" letter.

The reason such characters attract so much hate is because they are of course showing to the audience the dark and "weak" aspects of what it means to be human. In the particular context of abusive relationships, be it romantic, with family or even in a relationship with society, the majority of times those being abused actually accept the abuse and even try to justify it, a lot of the times turning against those trying to free them from the abuse. And people don't like to think of themselves as someone who would be so weak and make such terrible decisions, even though we all know deep down we might not fare that much better.

last edited at May 15, 2018 12:40PM

ample, visible, giant cleavage collision scattered throughout

The TL;DR of Netsuzou Trap forever more.

Anywhoo, nearing the end of Utena (translation: almost done being brainwashed with apocalyptic, duelist, musical rituals)!

Looking forward to your giant analysis about it, but probably off-topic for this forum lol

I'm a sw engineer and encounter this in my daily life; people actually think that e.g. the social media apps they use are easy to make, or that they are not meticulously designed, from the colours to the button positioning, to trigger a desired effect which has also been designed in advance. The fact that Citrus, in comparison to other yuri manga etc gained all this attention is not at all accidental.

Citrus is the most popular in the West (along with Girl Friends) but popularity doesn't equal quality. I still don't think it's that bad as some people say, like they say it's some irredeemable trash and stuff. In Japan, Citrus is not that popular compared to other yuri titles/subtext, so it seems this is a case of different culture = different interests.

Clearly you didn't notice, but I actually did not say Citrus gained attention (in the West at least) because it's "high-quality" (whatever that means). What I was trying to say is that manga, like any product, is to higher or lesser degrees (and in the case of Citrus it's to a very high degree) carefully crafted to gain attention of specific types of audiences. And that's both in terms of what the story, the drawings etc tells us and what they don't. So in the case of Mei, for example, the details of her personality and other details of the story are omitted on purpose most likely to keep readers speculating. In that sense ironically Citrus is not that different from Eva xD

last edited at Apr 29, 2018 6:40PM

LOL oh my innocent child :P

Huh, yeah, she said that, but that doesn't mean she creates the characters, drawings etc haphazardly. I think people actually underestimate by a LOT the amount of work and thought that goes into anything they purchase or consume when they don't know how it's actually made. That's precisely why we get hooked on things, for example, that get advertised to us. Even a simple ad of any product has a lot of work and knowledge that goes into it, which is why it works.

I'm a sw engineer and encounter this in my daily life; people actually think that e.g. the social media apps they use are easy to make, or that they are not meticulously designed, from the colours to the button positioning, to trigger a desired effect which has also been designed in advance. The fact that Citrus, in comparison to other yuri manga etc gained all this attention is not at all accidental.

NTR has ended actually, check your manga source! I think although the manga started seemingly shallow with a lot of fan-service, just like in Citrus it was the bait for a much better plot later on, and the characters become much more relatable. For example Hotaru's behaviour ends up being thoroughly discussed and explained, something still missing from the plot in Citrus.

last edited at Apr 28, 2018 4:24PM

On the flipside, I have yet to watch the Netsuzou Trap anime, but after the manga... jeebus, it's not something that (in my mind) could ever be made less niche (in so many ways). Even if the production was done "well"--and I have no idea how this could be defined other than " not Horrible", that story is so never going to become a cult phenomenon in animated form. (As a "best possible translation/collaborative re-envisioning", I could see it being made into a series of "tonally elevated/altered" vignettes--an atmosphere reminiscent of Goodbye, Dragon Inn (2003) mixed with aloof intensity found in complex scenes from Lust, Caution (2007)--or maybe go non-Asian, and more school-age-scenario apropos, with the lush, poetic style of the forgotten Canadian flick, Lost and Delirious (2001), but it's a pipe-dream given the low ratings and well... the quality of the source.) For stuff like this, it could be that the original "yuri manga" format is its best possible incarnation--the realistic "Best" here is probably "Interesting"... but I have yet to experience the divisive adaptation.

NTR anime was absolute garbage lol Mostly because I feel the manga is based on Yuma's internal monologues and the anime could not show that, plus it was like only 9min each episode. It was seriously bad.

I don't think the manga would ever become popular like Citrus though because people tend to dislike stories that are too morally grey, and with characters that they cannot connect with...either because they've never lived anything similar to what's being told in the story, or because it would make them uncomfortable if they admit to themselves they connect. After all most people don't want to think they behave shitty towards others when it comes to relationships...see how much hate Mei gets and she is like a healthy angel in comparison to Hotaru :P Still it really broke with conventions of previous yuri stories I read. I find it much better than Citrus and it's one of my top romance manga for sure.

last edited at Apr 25, 2018 10:44PM

Forget Yuri and Yaoi, it leaves the audience with expectations. Let the expectation just be Romance. Let people discover the chemistry of your characters on their own. Don't tell them it will be this, illustrate it.

Well the issue though, is that people want to know the story has BL/GL and will have an ending in which the MC does not end with opposite-gender partner, because it's so frustrating to invest $ into a series and then you get an ending you didn't want. In chapter 36 folks were rioting thinking the series was over with Mei marrying a dude lol So these stories are all romantic sure...but the audiences are different. Now what would be great is for the stories themselves to become more less trope-y, and Citrus/NTR have in my opinion indeed set a good precedent (mostly NTR though, Citrus still very trope-y).

Does no one (in retrospect) recall insta-lust and crazy infatuations with every kind of this, that, and whatever--especially tempting, compulsive shit that could get incredibly messy, in all ways, and later involve weary authorities? Triggers were/are abound: it doesn't even need to emit pheromones, and someone, somewhere is hooked, then restraining orders et al are pending; many people don't come out of this haze even in mid-life and beyond--although by then, it's more psychological than hormonally propelled.

This used to be my life (well not the restraining orders! lol) but these relationships never work out. I guess people ask why Yuzu loves Mei because we want to know why we should cheer for them to be together. I know that's my case.

Unfortunately the answer then is just: Yuzu is young, Mei is a hot closet key and now it's too late to undo the damage.

last edited at Apr 24, 2018 5:39PM

I could say that some months before chapter 35 (cause there had been 8 months between chapter 35 and 36), Mei was in full molesting mode too ... so. And Mei has been very childish too in her way to deal with Yuzu... so no, i don't see any difference of love. You clearly put Mei above Yuzu here, personally, i don't. They are on equal grounds.

I am not putting Mei above Yuzu...all I'm saying is that Mei seems to love Yuzu for non-obsessive reasons, mostly because it's very hard to not love Yuzu. Like the girl is full of good qualities that are made very clear from the beginning and pointed out by other characters, anyone would fall in love with her. But the reverse is never shown to be true, like what does Mei have going for her other than being hot and excessively dutiful? The story never tells us, so it's better to assume she doesn't have anything else going. Because Harumin for example, in contrast, is sure shown as full of good qualities and she isn't even a protagonist.

Hence the question of why Yuzu loves Mei in the first place. If it's not for her qualities, then what is it for? As what AozKtM wrote in a previous post, she is likely just obsessed ("monomania") lol Being obsessed is not a bad thing if the other person likes that you are obsessed about them.

last edited at Apr 23, 2018 1:07PM

It's not that I'm stuck, but I read the chapters mostly all at once and that's the impression I got. What I see is that since some people have been reading this thing for years now (patient heroes for sure), whatever happened in a previous volume, since it was published years ago it seems like it's a super old issue while for someone who read Citrus very recently it's a recent issue.

In any case, in the timeline of the story Yuzu was in full-on "protect Mei from pain" state like couple of months before chapter 36 at most, because they have dated for like half a year. I'm evaluating the whole story, not what happened to the characters yesterday afternoon :P

Buying the rings or going to the wedding photoshoot thing was a super childish demonstration, it's the type of thing high school kids do... so I don't consider it evidence for love tbh, because she does these things in a sort of selfish way, like Mei is an idea rather than a person that she has to talk to. Which again is very typical of being "in love" rather than "loving" someone. But her wanting to study is definitely a pretty big step in the love direction, the only one so far in my view. Blastaar is right that these manga romance stories always show love that way though, with few exceptions (say Karekano).

Also my criticism about Yuzu's lack of fighting spirit was again because of her treatment of Mei like this distant thing that she can't seem to talk to one way or another. If she simply accepts Mei's wish without even talking to her, it's in a way as bad as trying to force Mei into not marrying.

But some demonstrated or potential aspects of Mei:

• She's highly competent and respected in public (so Yuzu can admire her).

• But also fragile and emotionally vulnerable in private (so Yuzu can protect her).

• As part of those two things, Yuzu gets the inside view of a very reserved person and sees parts of Mei's personality that not even Himeko knows (and that Suzuran desperately wants to know).

• Also as part of the second thing, Yuzu gets to play big sister (or at least sister), a role she's never had before. Obviously, that's not inherently romantic, but it does draw Yuzu toward her new step-sibling.

• Mei in turn is drawn to Yuzu as well, and admires her for qualities that she herself doesn't possess, and there's always a tendency to be attracted to people who like and value you.

I think Mei genuinely admires Yuzu and loves her, which is demonstrated by the fact she says she has been trying to understand her in the letter etc. There was never a period, it seems to me, in which Mei lusted after Yuzu but was not also in love with her (her groping/kisses from before the Sho kiss were about control and not lust, though maybe there was lust subconsciously of course).

Yuzu on the other hand, I know people are not going to agree with me but I think she lusts after Mei and wants to protect Mei from pain, but she doesn't love her (yet). What she has is more like limerence, an obsession. I say this because we are shown Yuzu's thoughts and in no moment she tries to understand Mei beyond stuff that has immediate impact on her, and she also doesn't say anything about admiring her qualities. She is just shown wanting to be in Mei's company and obsessing over getting Mei's approval. If anything Yuzu is more in love with the idea of protecting Mei from pain than with Mei herself.

last edited at Apr 23, 2018 9:58AM

The bloodline excuse kind of falls apart considering gramps just gained a new daughter in law and granddaughter and he didnt even know about it despite Yuzu being admitted into his school. Appearantly the Aihara name isnt prestigious enough to be flagged when a transfer student shows up with it. He also has no reason to think Shou cant pump out a son to continue the name. If its a mukoyoshi its being done purely for business inheritance.

There is something funny that no one ever mentioned. Technically Yuzu is also an Aihara heir now lol She in the future could even battle Mei for control of the school even.

Anyway I think Gramps knew Yuzu was coming into the school, and Mei knew it too because she obviously knew she was moving in with Ume. Maybe they just didn't know what Yuzu looked like. Also Sho has been more or less banned from the family right? So I don't think Gramps would be very interested in his life, he most likely accepts Ume and Yuzu to be in the family begrudgingly. They are middle class people and so he would likely not be too interested in a son produced by UmexSho, if he can avoid that by having Mei pop up a "rich baby with rich genes" instead.

I hate this guy. I have said before but it's too bad Matsuri changed and is no longer sociopathic, I seriously wish she would terminate him and end of story lol You know, conveniently pushing him down some stairs at the school maybe...

Well Mei is hot and emotionally unavailable so...

If you read all the volumes over again after reading this, you might discover something new. It might be tough right now, but I think everyone who has been reading the series till now probably realizes it...until then, To their happiness!"

What the f is this supposed to mean? :-S

last edited at Apr 22, 2018 12:33PM

Harumin x Yuzu yeah, what a wonderful idea! Fast, write this to Mr. Uta.

I think that would waste the whole dynamic/storyline between the two. Friendship is beautiful thing, and theirs shouldn't be tainted by a love triangle and romance!

Real life more closely resembles Scum's Wish than, I don't know, Marimite lol Also sells more manga. For all we know Harumin has been holding back all this time as suggested by Matsuri (who again never been wrong in her life apparently). I do prefer HaruMatsu though...

But she is in high school and thy dated for like what, 6 months tops and didn't even have sex. Maybe she is so down because indeed she feels betrayed, that would make more sense. In any case I know that the real reason is because this is supposed to be "true love" and stuff.