Nora89

you are right.. I can't make a proper argument against you.. I have no idea where to start over so many scattered arguments XD

Again, personal attack instead of real argument ¯_(ツ)_/¯

gosh.. I never even deviated from discussing the idea XD
your idea is an idea .. not YOU

well, I suggest you reread your own comment.

I could say the same to you.

I do re-read them.. out of vanity XD

last edited at Jul 24, 2017 6:56AM

Also, wow, sarcasm and offenses when at no moment I disrespected you, way to show that you can't make a proper argument against what I said.

you are right.. I can't make a proper argument against you.. I have no idea where to start over so many scattered arguments XD

---

you're literally making assumptions about how I supposedly think changes should be made when I never said that, also, it's like you said, thousands of years, how long more you think we should wait to do anything? Maybe another thousand years? Change need to start somewhere.

well, I suggest you reread your own comment.

Because it feels like people are taking the word fight to literally mean commit violence or use force when you can fight for your rights using non-violent means just like Ghandi did.

funny, you just did that XD ..

just don't act as if those unhappy and that want change are wrong for wanting it and trying to change things for the better, cause they're not.

again, what I meant is: shoving your ideas by force and trying to be so fussy and outright aggressive against something people believed in for thousands of years is pure idiocy, lacks patient and wisdom all together WRONG.. will result only in shutting them down on you... blocking your ideas!
But why does it matter, let's get the artificial change.. feel modern and happy yappyyy.. liberals.. superheros yayyy.

this kind of McDonald's change makes me puck!

last edited at Jul 24, 2017 6:33AM

No, we come from the same world, you just came from a different country with different beliefs that makes harder to change things.

semantics..

but don't do anything that could get in their way either.

I am a harmonious person, remember ?

I would love to go into another 3 pages of discussion.. anyways, I truly realised we come from two different worlds. whatever floats your boat.

for me ?
nah, I just sit here.. write a nice article in some blog, a person or two would read it.. I still get girls.. and the state doesn't need to give me an official fancy paper saying that I'm exclusive with this person and our breakup would be legally nastier XDDD. argghh

I wish Martin can mix me a cocktail at 12:00 p.m

you really think that when a good amount of people are against a minority, they will let someone teach their children something they're against? Unfortunately sometimes when you try to be peaceful, people who are against what you say, especially people who have power, will do all they can to shut you up, unfortunately in some cases rebelling and protests are the only option.

you think like that because you are impatient, you want to wake up and find everyone conforming to what you believe to be right. So in your logic, a rebellion will make those people raise their children differently ?

No, insulting is how some people are treated because of their gender, skin color, or belief, and so on, being a culture is not a excuse to make anything acceptable,

ok honey, you are mixing things up.. this is not slavery nor racism.

but to give every human being the rights their deserve.

I did mention that no one stopped me from indulging in my forbidden fruit.. they are not ready to know about it! nor do I need to make it on national TV to feel liberated. So, on the level of Human rights, no one has stopped it.. you want them to like it ? well.. you think of peaceful approach as long as it's feasible. Being hasty and aggressive is selfish and pure idiocy.

Respect is a two way road, they don't respect our beliefs either, and no, I won't respect a belief where women need to be subjugated.

hahahahahhaha.. you know what's funny, women are still subjugated but under another form.. you know why? because all forced changes made difference in appearance not in the essence of the problem.
This is what I meant by forcing your idea, you only make a fake change.

nothing anyone will say will change my belief that people should fight for their rights instead of just accept things how they are.

if this is your approach in life.. that even in argument you can't be persuaded, of course violence and rebelling is the thing you find practical.

, a country might not have gay marriage, some will not suffer because of that, but others will, you can't generalize that, just because some are not suffering that doesn't mean there's not others who aren't, someone will always suffer when their rights are denied.

in all the time that I've been gay for.. I can't understand how some gays suffer because they can't get married. what's up with mimicking hetrosexuals. Oh, maybe the tax cuts or something !
so dramatic even for me.

Orange

Indeed. We don't teach a child the concept of non-violence by beating him into submission lol. We must first walk the talk.

you are my Ghandi π_π

Thiaguinho-sama

I remember having this argument with you on discord, anyways.. new liberals are just dictators level cute.

change doesn't need to happen by yelling and rebelling.. but slowly educating and planting the seed of the idea.. and this is the peaceful, harmonious approach that I prefere (or the bullshit as you call it).

secondly: some cultures are older than some countries XD .. to ask them to go follow anyone else just because you want them to be like the other country.. is upright insulting, aggressive and narrow minded.

you want your ideas be respected, respect other's beliefs and try slowly integrate yours to flow with them.. not to shock or force changing directions. I don't under any circumstances wish that this becomes an idea that someone dies for just to name a new hero and make a statues for them.. there are more important and precious things to die for.. this however, requires time, patience and respect.. if you go aggressive, you will face violence.

and I, LOVE my bullshit, aka"harmonious living".

Someone has to throw the stone for a ripple to take effect. The more stones thrown the more ripple and the stronger the ripples

I like this logic.. because last time I checked, Palestinians threw actual stones on the Israeli occupiers' tanks and were called terrorists XDDD how cute. But then the Palastina were shot.. the land was taken and the white liberal man suggested "HARMONY"
oh, let's not forget the aboriginals.
stones you say..

---

accepting things as they are sometimes is better than forcing a change even if it's right..

and now I contradict myself with what I told mpgjeg

last edited at Jul 23, 2017 6:54PM

I know it is hard. I know people who have been disowned by their family because they come out. Don't take what I said personal. I am directing it at an idea not at you. Hug.

heheh.. I know I know.. hugggggg let the 4 boobs explode XD

hlama, how can I say this.. this logic is just too american even for my open minded taste. ah, it's even aggressive.

I think it is more advantageous and less dangerous for teenagers and young adults to protes

not much to lose ? ..mmmhm so not get disowned or expelled from their school and universities? (for example..)

having many of them protesting gives older folks a sense of what the next generation wants, and maybe, hopefully politicians will tailor their promises to capture those votes,

those won't change, they are pretty much fine with their son or daughter committing suicide on being publicly gay.. and shame their legacy for centuries to come.

media tailor their stories for those viewers and corporations build products for the emerging needs

those people won't care to listen to this, and if forced, they will bring the corporation to bankruptcy.. because even advertisers won't risk their names

That's why I am angry at the ones who decide to hide because they are indirectly failing or slowing down the revolution.

you could be as angry as you want.. that place was not America nor that I wish it to be. I spent 5 years advocating gay rights and writing under a pen name everywhere the politicians couldn't catch me.. at the end I figured out that I am no one's hero nor that anyone should be.. and people "including LGBT" are comfortable with their lives as it is.. nothing changed, I left the hell out. being liberal doesn't mean I should force my ideals on others.. but to let change take place fluidly and naturally.

last edited at Jul 23, 2017 6:44PM

Sumin never ever imagined Nami could succeed or pass that limit given her reaction.

anyways, this thing of best friend sleeping with your special Ex. could work for some apparently.. just not me.

and btw.. it's not like any community or staying in my closet ever stopped me from doing my favorite things in life XDDD.. just my family/and people in there don't need to know my favorite finger food XD

last edited at Jul 23, 2017 6:05PM

hlama believe me I knew you live in the U.S the moment you suggested that Seju should come out if she wants to date Sumin XDDD.. anyways, this is not the case in other places, in a sense.. Families in the U.S are not that close anyways.. and nobody cares basically.. in other places, if a member of the family is known to be gay, the whole family is shamed for it - if not endangered- people would lose their jobs, reputations would be destroyed.. what works in some countries as peaceful change can be disastrous and selfish in other.
Also, could you please tell me how a teenager or a college student coming out in one of those countries would change anything !! they will suddenly legalise gay marriage ?? really!

I prefere having a harmonious life accepting how it is.. change what I can and if I can't, I leave the hell out

Nora89

.. everything is cost- benefit analysis for politicians , for businessmen and even among individuals on a social level
I hope this way of looking at things would also collapse.. by any means necessary

Very true. That has hindered healthcare as well (in the US at least). Economics is not my speciality, I definitely have a lot to learn about that. XD

oh boy.. even Economists have no idea what they are doing, and I MEAN IT.. but all of us are affected by their ignorance !

even when they tell you how well they did by adopting some policies, they never tell you how much they could've done way better in a more sustainable way.. because well, faster effects are always prefered even if we would pay the price later.

About the health care thing, they criticised Bernie for wanting free education for all.. like from where could they pay for it, right?

he said: Wall street
I say, why does the U.S need to spend and expand the military expenditure to reach over 611.2 $ Bn in 2016 ALONE ..of course they won''t have money for education, health AND LIFE if killing someone in Iraq and Afghanistan is more important to them!

by the way, this amount is more than double what Chain and Russia spent COMBINED !

last edited at Jul 23, 2017 5:19PM

mpgpeg

I am not a fan of violence, so I was never a fan of wars. But apparently, it is necessary for countries to be convinced and the only way for them to back down. Too bad.

now that I'm doing advanced studies in Economics sciences I truly wonder if all these profit maximization functions were ever beneficial to human race so their creators got Nobel prizes for !! .. everything is cost- benefit analysis for politicians , for businessmen and even among individuals on a social level
I hope this way of looking at things would also collapse.. by any means necessary

Edit:
(okay.. I forgot how I got to talk about this in the first place.. I was talking about naked boobs in public places, YES booooobs would achieve world peace XD)

last edited at Jul 23, 2017 5:06PM

I am a fan of harmony as well. Hoping for world peace one day... But that's not looking so good right now.

sigh..
but at times, I feel like another shake in this world would ruffle things a bit.. we ,humans, seem to forget the value of peace without wars. Maybe then, capitalism will collapse so communism and all new- slaverism under the name of corporate gains. If sacrificing world peace for a while would achieve this, so be it.

mpgpeg

all what you said I agree with. However, the fact that Sumin never really truly got angry on Nammi even when she knew that the news "could be actually true" is quite suspicious. But it also shows Sumin's tendency to blame Seju for everything wrong happening.. so even Nammi's trials would be Seju's mistake in Sumin's eyes.

mpgpeg
Exactly.. the thing is, and I am sorry to say this, but westerners tend to see the world from their comfortable place and think it's the same everywhere and if it's not, you should simply rebel on it XDDD. Things don't work out this way everywhere nor that it is the best way.. sometimes maintaining the harmony is more important than one person selfish need specially if this need can be met in silence.

hlama

The trick to gym locker room is to strip down ;). Your own body will distract you away, also make you less standout.

as much as I admit being a pervert and such.. I truly hate getting naked on front of someone whom I am not dating XDDD

I am the kind of girl who takes her shower at home.
gosh, I remember going to a Mineral-Thermalbad in here.. (and it's mixed gender).. the responsible guy told me that I can't be wearing anything.. not even a towel.. my God.. I ran out because even before I tried to argue, I saw a tremendous amount of genitalia of all ages all sexes and such.. it was an unpleasant shock XDDD (it was my first time to see a real life fully naked man too XDD)

last edited at Jul 23, 2017 4:29PM

mpgpeg
hahahah.. I remember talking about encrypted tattoos in the off topics.. this one would make a great one XDD

I guess the writer likes to have fun. XD

yeah she does.. I would love to corner her a bit with some stuff I have in mind XD

hlama

Don't people always advise to chase your dream because you will regret things you didn't do instead of the things you did?

see, there are boundaries and considerations that should be taken into account. Chasing a dream when you know that your "friend" is the one who has it and the dream itself doesn't want you is truly something interesting about Nammi (in a bad way)

Defeat? I don't think nami considered it a competition to begin with. She did it to prove a point or because it was fun.

well, she said it: " I struck out" unofficial and "can't help it" official. Back then she didn't do it to prove a point, she wanted to sleep with Seju and wanted maybe more from her.. emotional maybe.. but Seju saw right through her.

She never hides it, so more like front "stabbing" hahaha?

you've got a point here XD

It is a play, not a serious pursue though. Do you think nami would actually date sungji if sungji took the bait? She may sleep with her and tell sumin 'hey look, this girl ain't your soulmate. Go find a better one.'

well, She will enjoy it .. sleep with her, date her and whatever.. Nammi didn't show any kind of ethical limit in this department.. not in ch 31 and what she told Bang uri and not with trying to sleep with a drunk girl.

Maybe, maybe not. Rumor had been flying around already. And hey, if seju wants to date sumin again, she will need to get out of the closet sooner or later.

the whole world is not America and not Europe.. Seju is living in Korea, this a significant damage to her image.. social defamation even. Should I remind you of what she thought the reason behind Sumin's scar.. or the phone call she got from her family member in ch49 ?

To me, this is a friendship goal. Casual friends have to cross a barrier to get to this level of honesty and comfort. Nami offers this from the get-go.

I have a sister who is like that, but in reality.. I avoid anyone who is like Nammi.. acts with no consideration whatsoever, loud and basically has no boundaries.

Random thought, I have a feeling Seju does not like Nami, not because of Nami's flirt, but because Nami can see through her barrier and is not afraid to stir up Seju's hidden emotion, hurting her pride in the process.

really?? Nammi can see through Seju?? she has mistaken the reason Seju went through the blind dates (which was actually to protect Sumin.. I will explain this later on) and she has wrongfully accused Seju for ratting out the red head.. I mean Seju doesn't care at all about how Nammi thinks of her and she said it in multiple occasions, let alone trying to defend herself on front of her !
It was belittling that most important thing Seju ever had is what made her break down. Not Nammi's super knowledge about her.

sayuri12

he point that I was trying to say is that Nami is the type that not everyone would like but isn't as bad as most people would think. I mean, I like her too but I'm not blind to the fact that Nami can be difficult for people. Like Nora doesn't like her because of her nature but you and I actually find it likable.

correct.
yoonie

Most of us saw her action with Seju is trying to make Sumin out of her shell. For the most part, its true but Nammi also used the situation to gain something for herself. There are various ways of making Sumin angry and jealous of her. Pretty easy, really, considering Nammi can easily go on news or spreading wrong rumours about her and Seju. However she chose to push Seju to sleep with her, using her smartass brain and situation.

ON POINT !

hlama

uhhhh, you made it sounded like Nami blackmailed Seju into sex or something =.=. She teased and asked for a drink, but Seju was the one who chose a hotel and got "physically aggressive". Given Seju's wealth and power, she could have easily shut down Nami. Why did she go along if she was so unwilling? Did she breakdown because of the unwilling sex, too?

in that chapter, Seju explained why she went along with it.. Seju kept asking Nammi many times what was that she wanted.. and Seju knew it wasn't just sex, and for that she told her: don't kid yourself, this doesn't change anything. Seju: if this is what you want to try out, do it ..etc
Nammi wanted more than Seju's body.. and for Seju to go along with it is to show her that what she seeks is impossible.

In this whole Nammi Seju thing, I have the same question that Nammi had.. how come Sumin didn't blow off on her but on Seju! XD

last edited at Jul 23, 2017 4:09PM

yoonie0104 and mpgpeg

Its said "Back in the days, Seju and Sumin was dating in 1990s era when there was no phone yet. To be able to contact each other, they used pager. After they broke up, Sumin also used it to hit on girls. Her number is 17711771"

really? Sumin used the pager ?.. I mean she pretty much had a Motorola razr XD

on a side note: Seju is freakingly sexy XD

Orange

Give it a brief glimpse (good bodies need to be appreciated XDDDDD), but don't linger XD
When you feel uncomfortable, think of something really boring really fast ahhahahaha

oh, I think of my uncle.. heheh such a turn off XD

mpgpeg

A good number of people are out on social media these days, so that makes it easier.

it make it easier depending on your cultural, religious, economic, social, educational...etc backgrounds. I personally don't like the constant pressure on gay individuals to come out and advertising so.. I mean, telling teenagers to do so without any consideration to their circumstances is utterly irresponsible and narrow minded. And.. by Economic background, believe it or not, the better the financial statues of the person the easier it gets.

hlama

Believe or not they can make 3 worse by adding something like: you obviously have not tried it with me!, at that point I don't even bother reasoning, just walk away.

hahahahah.. the magical D that will convert all lesbos straight XDDD
== I actually feel offended when a guy flirts with me.. I have no idea if it's the same for other sisters==

You need to go to a bathhouse in Japan. You will be around 50-100 completely naked women in different shapes, sizes, ages walking around, relaxing, bathing and drinking. Sooooo hard not to stare BUTT I trained my discipline at last hahahahaha.

hahahahahahahhahahahha... HEAVEN hahahah
speaking of BUTT, I have no idea how you did so.. because here whenever I go to a gym and they get butt naked I feel so embarrassed and confused, not necessarily aroused.. just literally confused XD

mpgpeg

So you don't take offense when someone says they "knew" that you were gay?

depends, I mean this person is telling you this information probably because you are close to them, so making a chilled reaction would probably make them feel less awkward because "you knew XD", so t them .. nothing has changed.

And I'll try not to do number 7 on your list.

ah, from experience.. this is the hardest one anyways!
I mean if you are friends who used to change cloths in front of each other .. this will be AWKWARD later.. and if she decided to be out one day, it's harder to hang out with her and have the same level of skinship without worrying about your mom suspecting you too XD

---

hlama

Good advice, Nora. 2. 3. 5. 6. Happened to me. I know you are curious, but seriously, don't do it.

argghhh when a man does 3 .. I truly feel offended and disgusted (maybe 15% angry).. I mean, how about YOU, rude guy, try it with a man too and confirm that you are truly straight XD .. oh, can I watch? XDDDD

---

btw, having a girl changing her cloths on front of me is one of the most awkward 5 min that I will have to put up with.. I don't know what's considered normal.. where should I look and not be suspicious.. what if she sensed me being uncomfortable .. hehe and I am a shy person, taking my cloths nowhere in front of anyone.. what if she questions XDDD