Ooh nice. This pairing is pretty much non-existent in the western fandom.

The thing is about the Magius's "extremes" is that if Iroha and her friends had just left them alone, then it probably would've never had to come to that. Instead Iroha and her associates decide to keep interfering with the Magius and the Wings of Magius plans thus driving them into a metaphorical corner where they (the Magius) start to act extreme including plotting to hurt other magical girls (who may be scheming with Iroha for all they know). Also at least the Magius offer a possibility for salvation (the Doppel system) for the magical girls while Iroha and company offer nothing so in that way the "heroes" are in the wrong.

If that's a reasonable conclusion derivable from the text, is the game portraying them unsympathetically then as you originally said? Since there is a difference between the protagonists' views being unsympathetic and the game/creators showing them that way.

Just finished the Sayuki event and it's adorable. When I read battle one's story I thought it was a shame there wasn't music accompanying her song lyrics. Then at the very end they show an entire MV of that song. Rena fangirling was cute too.

If they killed Tsuruno off and saved Mami later on then I think it would make the writing worse off than it is already. I really like to see an alternate story mode told from the POV of the Magius and the Wings of Magius that portrays them more sympathetically instead of the hamfisted Magius are the "bad guys" and Iroha and company are the "good guys" that we got in the game.

I think that might depend on what you see as being sympathetic. As of current main story I find them sympathetic. They're selfish as fuck, but with all the Ui / Eternal Sakura stuff going on, there's clearly something more happening in the background. And even more importantly, the game has had Yachiyo (or was it Iroha?) declare that they were fighting for their respective selfish wishes.

Also when we first learn more of the Magius, it seems their goal is to prevent magical girls from becoming witches. In chapter 9, we find out their goal is even bigger than that and seems to actually be the eradication of all witches in the present and the future while pushing out Incubators at the same time. That's a lofty goal that I would argue could justify the means. It's similar to what Madokami does, except you prevent the creation of magical girls too. You prevent the witches, the deaths those witches cause, and the deaths of future magical girls who will never have to contract. That's pretty amazing isn't it?. Still though, it would have been nice if there had been more wings who kept on following the Magius even after Mifuyu left. But the only people who would have been left would have been people who don't have much left to lose in terms of relationships since the Magius are depicted as going to a extreme that even loyal wings can't accept anymore.

The basic premise of the game was advertised as one of Homura's earlier timelines

Oh was it advertised that way? I mean it is one of her earlier timelines, just not in the PMMM time loop.

This is very much not true though, one of the things that people ignore a lot about the OG series is that at the end of the story, every single death gets undone, if anything we are at -1 deaths by the end of Rebellion, we started that story with 5 characters, and now we have 6 with the addition of Nagisa, we achieved the fabled negative deaths!

Lol I did consider bringing that up too. There is so much death, but it's all negated. It's a well-deserved negation which is probably why it doesn't feel contrived, but objectively, only Sayaka dies in the end of the main series.

Probably people just want to see higher stakes in MR though. Like the real chance of anybody dying or suffering some terrible fate. I do feel that way too sometimes for plot tension reasons. It should only happen though if the writers are prepared to write the aftermath. Personally I wouldn't mind if Mifuyu dies, but I doubt she will. Her soul gem didn't crack all the way.

This is one of those things that I agree but for different reasons, the OG series is better to me but because it is this incredibly fine-tuned, concise story with almost impecable theming, MagiReco is still really good once it picks up steam, but the OG series is just really difficult to beat, and saying something isn't as good as it is like saying that a millionaire isn't as rich as a billionaire, that is a completely true statement, but saying it doesn't discard the fact both are still filthy rich.

Yeah agreed. I stopped playing MR months ago because my units sucked and the story battles were frustrating me (during chapter 4 I couldn't get three stars for twenty straight battles), but I'm extremely glad I came back, just for the story. And partly because the game itself is more fun now.

Well, this is a distressing read. Interesting to see a long-form Touhou story that's not written by ZUN or a comedy, though

Some works by Personal Color are longer and not comedy, specifically Two by This Side, Three by the Other Side . It's true there's not a lot of those though. Fan doujins tend to be a single story, at least ones translated on here.

I really like it, it's a really dramatic story between yukari and yuyuko

I'm glad, it's one of the classics of Touhou doujin. Personal Color has a lot of great if melancholic works.

This is official? I'm very confused.

Dawwww. I love stories where characters face their demons (cute innocent salamanders) and come to accept them.

LEWD HANDHOLDING ACTION

Speaking of when they saved Tsuruno in chapter 7, I've been thinking about an alternate version where both normal Tsuruno and Uwasa Tsuruno were separated into different individuals and lived as sisters. I've seen some fanart of it, and based on Tsuruno's personality (and her friends), I don't see why it couldn't happen.

Loool so double the power of friendship. Now even the Uwasa can be saved. Uwasa Tsuruno was quite nice though, very chill, outside of how she's happy to let you relax forever.

This is so pretty but it's incest? Nooooo. I had a feeling though once I saw the spoiler bars.

riverFlower posted:

Which makes seeing her actually getting along with people in MR and being able to care so much more heart warming.

Except that's not Homura. That's one of issues I have with the lazy justification for story. We're seeing different universe than the one from OG anime, so the Homura, Madoka, Sayaka, Mami and Kyouko are different character. They're not the characters we know, and as far as we know, they might be separate people with different personalities etc. ... Honestly the revelation we're not following the universe we know and those are separate characters that actually made different choices than OG cast in OG universe, kinda turned me off to them and now I can't really invest in them as much. So Homura you see in MR is not OG Homura and she will never become Coolmura, because they're separate characters that thinks differently.

I read a lot of fanfiction/parallel universe works so them being theoretically separate people doesn't bother me. I see people as a continuum of potential anyway and the experiences we go through or don't are crucial in shaping us. Since Moemura has gone through different things and because this universe is completely different, well makes sense she'd be different. But at the same time, I still see her as Homura. She's a version of Homura after all. And so far, she is purposefully meant to follow a Homura who does not become cynical. Anime Homura in her first few timelines is the same person as MR Moemura to me. And the diverging point seems to be the timeline where OG Homura is almost killed by Mami and MR Homura isn't.

Although it sounds like you had expected MR would take place in the OG universe and follow the same rules with same character thought processes, which I think I dropped any expectation of the moment the little Kyubey showed up.

so it make you feel like all Homura had to do was ask others for help, but still I kinda like the implication that we can overcome everything together. It gives different feel than OG, while being just as hopeful as it.

She does ask for help though (why is this spoilered), but in the last pre-Madokami timeline Kyouko sacrifices herself so she was forced to confront Walpurgisnacht by herself anyway. There's always a chain of events that gets in OG Homura's way no matter what she tries. It's more of the universe is different thing that asking for help didn't work for her before. But also exactly, MR explores another type of hope which I'm more than happy with. The doom and gloom of the original plus Madokami is of course unrivable, but I'm fine with them being two different stories. Even if MR's friendship overcomes everything approach can verge on being somewhat unbelievable. Eg. I'm torn between being happy they saved Tsuruno so easily in chapter 7 and wondering if there wasn't another just as satisfying plot that could have been written.

Wow, they really have no presence on here. They have so much chemistry in the stage plays and live performances though. I mean just look at the 2nd StarLive performance of their insert song. Their actors are casually touchy in the stage plays too. Their relationship does seem diminished in the anime, maybe because Kaoruko's personality is different for one thing.

I think their actors might both be queer? Itou Ayasa (Kaoruko) seems to be confirmed queer and Ikuta Teru (Futaba) apparently flirts a lot and was cast as a bisexual woman. I couldn't find the movie she apparently appeared in (Akigire) with English search engines so couldn't investigate more. But anyway maybe that's why they have on-stage chemistry.

And maybe that makes her uncaring.

I don't think that's a fair perspective, if you can't donate to charity because you only money goes towards providing for your family, does that mean you care none for the cause? people make sacrifices over what is more important all the time, Homura was just operating on much higher stakes than the average person.

I agree that her actions in the main series are in large part due to circumstances more than anything else. Which makes seeing her actually getting along with people in MR and being able to care so much more heart warming. Also I do like to play devil's advocate sometimes because even if I don't agree with an idea in the end, it might still be interesting to me.

A separate rant, I forget where I've seen people say that MR is less "good" than PMMM because the stakes aren't as high in terms of max achievable despair, but I always thought that was one of MR's strengths. The initial premise provides a different type of hope than Madokami does and that's fascinating to explore, especially given how the Magius act. It also gives characters like Homura some time to breath. If even one timeline exists where they all can be more happy, I think they've fought more than enough to deserve that. (Doppels are far from being wonderful, but that's another topic.)

Ah, yeah tbh it's the same difference to me lol

Witching out has always been noted to be way worse, it isn't just dying, it is having your soul twisted by literal physical, quantifiable suffering and despair, it is a situation where both are awful but if dying is a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10, witching out is a 25.

Hmm I'm also curious now, what was the source for her deaths being half from witching out and half from dying?

I really like that scene where Homura mistakes Rika for Madoka after just fixing her (Homura's) eyes.

Where does that happen?

This is official??? How? It's not just a fan doujin?

Also damn, a last supper of ramen.

last edited at May 27, 2020 6:06AM

That's definitely not Giovanna; Iroha's hair is also down, which means the doppel's completely uninvolved.

Hahaha yeah, I took one look and closed the link. Good to know.

I feel this is one of those things that people give Homura a lot less credit than she deserves, and that her seemly uncaring behavior is a lot more related to compromises... so it is less about how much she cares, and more about what she is willing to sacrifice first.

Homura's a complex character, because her actions speak for her so much, and actions can be interpreted many ways especially given how much she's numbed her feelings. I think there is also room for an interpretation of her where when push comes to shove, she would trade everything, every other person in the world, even Madoka's own wishes, to protect Madoka. That's exactly what she does by the end of Rebellion after all. And maybe that makes her uncaring.

I agree though that feeling wise, she cares. It certainly causes her pain seeing others suffer. She wishes she could just get them to do what's most convenient for them by acting scary, so that they don't all die. It just doesn't seem to matter in the end when she would sacrifice the world for Madoka and action-wise she will always make the same choice.

This is actually inaccurate... there is no timeline in which Sayaka survives once she contracts, but it is split between witching out and dying in battle, not that either fate is really that good.

Ah, yeah tbh it's the same difference to me lol but duly noted. Basically Sayaka digs her own grave every single timeline. From what I know of the PSP game, the only times she survives are because Kyouko stepped in, and their canonicity is questionable.

We already had that discussion and my arguments were completely ignored, so I'm not bothering to repeat myself, especially now that it seems like my understanding of story was always flawed to begin with, because I thought Homura tried to defeat Walpurgisnacht together with Madoka many times before she went solo, proving that she initially did try to save everyone.

Oh wow that discussion really was only like a month ago. If it is any consolation your analysis of her character makes sense to me.

How many timelines she goes through before going solo isn't completely clear, but the timeline where she tells them about magical girls turning into witches is when she goes cold. In the anime that's the third timeline we're shown, but who knows if there were any gaps in between.

She does always try to save everyone even after going solo. I mean her goal is to defeat Walpurgisnacht, in large part of course so Madoka has no reason to contract, which has the side effect of saving everyone.

^ These are Tendou Maya indeed.

This thing

Oh god, I wish I'd never opened that link. That was horrible. I'm not sure if that's supposed to be Iroha's doppel or not but I'm not clicking it again to take another look to confirm.

I do wonder how much Homura really cares about random strangers and people that aren't important to Madoka given how she (Homura) acts towards Mami and (to a lesser degree) Sayaka in the main series? The Homura in Magia Record might care more about those people (although not if Madoka in danger?) though.

I only have main series + some MR knowledge to go off of, no spin-offs if Homura shows up in them. That's something else people have debated back and forth on lol. I feel like Homura after multiple timelines does stop caring about random strangers and people unimportant to Madoka. She does care about Mami / Sayaka though. Mami in particular she used to look up to also. But Mami almost kills her, and well, after that timeline is when she completely changes. So it makes sense she'd be cold to Mami, feeling she's a lost cause. She sees Sayaka the same way, as a lost cause. Cause well, there is literally no timeline where Sayaka doesn't witch out once she contracts.

But going back to random strangers, if she was just randomly wandering around and a witch shows up that's luring people to it, would she kill it just to help them? I don't see why not, she gets a grief seed out of it. If there was zero reward, then I don't know. She may or may not care, but either way, unless she's thinking something like "Madoka would be disappointed in me if she knew" or "Madoka would be sad", she might not have enough intrinsic motivation. She's devoted everything to Madoka after all.

Unrelated but I found a funny site talking about anti-magical girl propaganda.

Nice.

Not yuri to the naked eye, but we can assume saria is somewhere in this picture

She really isn't though, neither "Saria" nor "yuri" is tagged by the artist.

Going back to the artist's commentary, somebody more familiar with modern Chinese lingo than me could probably translate it better, but I'll give it a shot cause I'm curious. I mostly don't know what 脑洞 means and that's what's stumping me because it's internet slang. I don't know if it's the chinese equivalent of "big brain"? Except with non-meme usages too?

Well the commentary says: Regarding one of Rhine Lab's 脑洞. Ifrit got in trouble again. If someone wants to translate 脑洞, that'd be cool.

I think people just feel bad for Mahiru getting left out?

Huh but Karen and Hikari have way more chemistry with each other than with Mahiru. XD

Well, this is a distressing read. Interesting to see a long-form Touhou story that's not written by ZUN or a comedy, though

Some works by Personal Color are longer and not comedy, specifically Two by This Side, Three by the Other Side . It's true there's not a lot of those though. Fan doujins tend to be a single story, at least ones translated on here.

last edited at May 26, 2020 3:03AM

Is this really meant to be yuri? It would essentially be incest if it was.

I think I've confirmed it's not. Picture on pixiv is not tagged yuri, while a Saria x Silence work by same artist is.

Bonus, pixiv artist's commentary: 关于莱茵生命的一个脑洞。伊芙利特又闯祸了。

I can't translate the first line off the top of my head, but the second line just says "Ifrit got in trouble again".

last edited at May 25, 2020 11:03PM

Wonder if hashihime blood is actually red. She looks like a volcano.

Is there a reason Mahiru gets shipped with them so often? At least in the western fandom? I haven't watched the last two anime episodes, so if there's spoilers there would appreciate nothing spoilery.

One wonders how such sublimate madness was achieved. Hard to see it happening accidentally, there's at least 10 twists in that braid, and it looks like a tightly-woven braid. Probably Madoka wanted it and then Homura (unwillingly) obliged. And I have to say, I never expected simple hair silhouettes to look so good. They look cute.

last edited at May 25, 2020 10:48PM