And this overall thread (not specifically the post I'm quoting) is a good example of why general forum discussions of morality often become such a dead-end in terms of critical discourse (if not indeed interpersonal dumpster fires). In another forum here on Dynasty there was just a post objecting to people (implicitly, people like me) "negging" on the "who's right/who's wrong/who is a good person/who is a bad person/don't do this at home because it's bad" approach to discussion, saying it's just as legitimate (or useful, or whatever) as anything else.

My objection to the whole approach is that, at best, it stops paying attention to the text that's the supposed topic of discussion, and at worst devolves into people pressing the autoplay button in their heads in order to make a bunch of generalizations about the real-life implications of whatever morality/behavioral issue they're talking about. (Of course I'm not saying that people shouldn't be allowed to discuss such topics; I'm just saying that I personally don't see much value in critical dead ends and interpersonal dumpster fires.)

Brides of Iberis is notable (so far) for featuring a bisexual and polyamorous character who isn't depicted with the various negative characteristics often associated with such characters in yuri manga (i.e., emotionally confused, in denial, manipulative, etc.), making Tsuzuki (to me) one of the more striking and interesting characters to come along in quite a while. That would seem to make for plenty of things to discuss about this series and how it might relate to other specific manga series or genres.

(cutting some of the quoting to not have a gigantic comment.)

I agree that it'd be better to just talk about the manga instead of derail in other things, and recognize that im often(?) part of the people who end up doing some amount of derailing which I've tried and will keep trying to work on. It's just a pain in the ass to see things that are pretty negative and based on stereotype or whatever and the urge to say something about it is pretty strong sigh.

About the manga though, I'm really glad it has not portrayed that kind of bisexual character which the first chapter kinda felt like it would go in that direction. I'm really glad it ended up not going there and instead not potraying Tsuzuki in a bad light. It gives more room for the story to explore more interesting territories and so far it's been really interesting to see the confusion Mitsuki has been going through with at first thinking Tsuzuki was cheating, which funnily enough mirrors part of the audiance, and now her having been the one who probably stepped out of the boundaries of her own relationship with jun. Really curious to see where she will go from there, because even in the case she breaks up with jun, given the things we've seen so far it doesn't quite seem like she'd be okay entering the polyamours type relationship Tsuzuki is in even though she has strong feelings for her.

last edited at Jun 29, 2022 9:41AM

Maybe those stories are more rare because they more rarely work out in reality? Most people who say they're bisexual are often in a pretty darn straight looking relationship, and can't be bothered to foster a long-term poly one. They usually just want a fling. And being in a straight relationship is easier to come by then a gay one.

Wow.

That's a take so hot you could only have found it in a pile of burning trash.

Dynasty being constructive as usual.

Maybe, just maybe, there shouldn't be the need to be constructive about people delegitimizing being bisexual with the same bullshit discourse of "oh well you're not actually bi if you're in a het relationship" and when you're in a gay relationship you're just too pussy to say you're gay.

Like literally what this is saying is "most people who say they're bi" aren't actually bi because they're in a relationship that looks very straight. And that is an absolute dogshit take that shouldn't exist anymore. "Can't be bothered to foster a long term poly one" is also such a stupid take. Just because you're sexually and or romantically interested in multiple gender doesn't mean you want to be in a relationship with multiple at once. Being bi doesn't mean you want to be in a poly relationship. Like this sentence is just nonsense being in a straight or gay relationship has absolutely no fucking bearing on wether you want to develop a poly one. + The people who "just want a fling" generally are actually the middle aged straight people with a failing marriage who want a (younger) bi women for a threesome to spice up their dead sex life. Saying "you don't wanna be poly you just want a fling" is a stupid take.

Also, everybody can want to have casual sex, and this stereotype that bi people only want to fuck, are players or cheaters is an idea that does belong in a pile of burning trash.

Some of y'all really need to take a second and think about the garbage ideas you have about bisexuality and bi people.

Painting her feelings as something like that of a fan and her idol isn't right either. The author uses the word 恋心. It's pretty unambiguously romantic, and her actions clearly indicate she's interested in dating, not just admiring from a distance. It's not the fever induced delusion of the readers when the uncle is written to even read it this way.

The question is whether it will stay that way once she finds out the truth, or if we'll go the "My feelings of like are different because we are girls" route. I'll echo the sentiment earlier that usually when authors start waxing poetic about the definition of yuri or if their work is something more complicated than that, it's usually not a good sign. But given that the author seems to actually draw gay stuff and isn't Ryukishi trying to make Higurashi Gou seem super deep, I'll reserve my thoughts until the end.

Yeah p much. Wether or not it ends up as a romance story the biggest disappointement would be some stupid cop out of not explicitly saying they're gay. If it ends up as friendship and looks like it after Aya figures out mitsuki isn't a guy sure, if it ends up as romance sure, but some weird bullshit would suck ass.

The fucking tease from the author my god

I dunno, in Yvonne shoes i'd be worried that talking about the system makes it go apeshit and kill both me and Elsa or some shit like that.

last edited at Jun 10, 2022 8:41AM

personally I think watanabe is too much of a degen to have ever had a girlfriend

That could be what cost her a potential previous relationship and made her doubledown on her shit more lol.

Yoooooo that's. Didn't except things to kick up like that suddenly, I can't wait to see the result

...is black nail polish hard to remove? Can't say I ever noticed lol

Mine's a pain in the ass but I also have never worn any other color so I can't compare lol.

revkar posted:

I won't delve too much into that, because it's without end, but you can't put people in little boxes and label them.

If you want to read the subconscious of manga characters, sure, go ahead, but it's a bit fruitless.

I mean assuming they're both straight instead of considering the possibility they aren't is, putting them in little boxes lol.

Hello? I said "in real life". In real life, lots of people are heterosexual you know. Not especially attracted to the same sex, but rather by the opposite sex. They are more numerous than you think.

For these characters, I don't assume anything, since the story isn't over. I just mentioned that there's no indication that any of them is/was into girls.

Even the reverse for Aya: she's into guys until she magically gets into girls because plot.

Even with real life context, I guess I was straight until the universe's plot decided to magically make me bi. Didn't think I liked guys until I found guys I liked. Plenty straight people in real life, plenty queer people too. If someone has never seen me interested in a guy but only into girls, it wouldn't be a "wtf you turned bi" ( I fucking hope so at least. ), just cause the story hasn't shown Aya be into girls doesn't make it a "because plot" asspull. We haven't seen Mitsuki into girls yeah, haven't seen her into guys either, why find it the reasonable exceptation that she would be straight and her being not straight is just suddenly a thing cause plot. For all we know Mitsuki is gay or bi, or whatever else and her uncle might know already and she's been out for years, or Aya can be her gay awakening, we don't know. But it's incredibly frustrating to see this assumption of heterosexuality as the base exceptation until it's shown it's not, and then "oh well it's just the plot that turned her gay just because!"

IAKi100atT posted:

You know, in the real world, once she finds out it's a female classmate, Aya would eventually just befriend her and drop the idea of a romantic encounter right?

There's no indication that either Aya or Mitsuki are romantically intereted in women. They just seem to have similar taste in music.

But it's a manga, so, sure, anyone can suddenly have an epiphany and be "if it's you, it's OK".

gay people are a myth, like wizards and unicorns

Come on, it's not what I mean.

I won't delve too much into that, because it's without end, but you can't put people in little boxes and label them.

If you want to read the subconscious of manga characters, sure, go ahead, but it's a bit fruitless.

I mean assuming they're both straight instead of considering the possibility they aren't is, putting them in little boxes lol.

You know, in the real world, once she finds out it's a female classmate, Aya would eventually just befriend her and drop the idea of a romantic encounter right?

There's no indication that either Aya or Mitsuki are romantically intereted in women. They just seem to have similar taste in music.

But it's a manga, so, sure, anyone can suddenly have an epiphany and be "if it's you, it's OK".

Or they can not have a sudden epiphany and be openly gay or bi. Most manga do that "it's just you" bullshit with the "I like you despite your gender" vibe, instead of admitting the character is gay, but come the fuck on, even if it was a situation in realf life bi people still exist. Just because Aya is interested in who she percieves to be a guy doesn't mean she clearly isn't possibly into women. Mitsuki is presented as a gloomy kid in school, Aya showed 'interest' in her when she reminded her of her store persona, but that's not through "oh that girl looks like a guy" but the attitude and actions.

last edited at May 30, 2022 8:36AM

The expressions are so good

ok but when are we gonna see more at school scenes so there can be a setup for aya to fall for mitsuki-at-school and have a severe dilemma

that development would be chef's kiss but I think the school setting will be used for Mitsuki to fall for Aya, not the other way around. she'll be listening to her honest opinions about her in gyaru-chan's conversations with her friends, without the other party knowing, and getting to see a side of Aya that she wouldn't show to her record store crush. until one day she'll get herself thinking "wow she's really cute and honest isn't she?" (that's when homegirl will notice she was hit by the gay)

This would absolutely be an interesting storyline. And Aya doesn't return her feelings for Mitsuki in school mode, but is unknowingly falling for androgynous, record store Mitsuki.

She did get a little blush in chapter 4, so it's not totally impossible.

well, idk how "straights" work but i too would blush if someone just put an earbud in my ear like that. too smooth...

at this point I think Aya will completely ignore classmate Mitsuki and fall even more deeply for record store Mitsuki (mainly via message), and poor Mitsuki will suffer bc "she only likes the idea she has of me, and on top of that thinks I'm a dude, so she does not like the real me while >I< like her".

i predict some drama. I feel sorry for my alt baby

Very possible, but also wouldn't mind given how nice handsome girl&sheltered girl was with that premise or misunderstanding :P

I'm gonna be honest, I really didn't got all those flirty vibes from this chapter as people are saying, of course it had it's puns but for me it was more Naruko being a support and helping Haru understand something that she was having difficult to realize than any chemistry going on between them

Also poor Hii was a side character for almost the entire chapter, lol

Given I'm one of the people who mentionned flirting, I'd like to specify I don't really think anything was happening here. I was just saying that a poly situation can happen without shoehorning if it's built up. I just think poly happening would be neat, but I don't except it to happen at all.

On another note about the person who mentionned morality, I find that line of thinking kinda fucked up to be honest. It's not immoral to develop feelings for two people or more at the same time, or even bring up that you've got some feelings going on with someone else and maybe ask if your partner would be interested in pursuing a poly relationship or something. What would be immoral however would be acting on those feelings without consent from your current partner. Developping romantic feelings for someone outside of your relationship is in no way immortal imo. Can't really control that, maybe some people just cannot have feelings for two people at one time and can't conceptualize that idea, but it is possible. What is controllable is the action taken regarding those feelings, distancing yourself from the second person you have feelings for and wait for them to pass if your relationship is stricly monogamous is an option.

last edited at Apr 23, 2022 2:17PM

Where’s the bisexual so I could’ve had this filtered off by default

I don’t really think she is (necessarily) bi tho. All the “men” just looked to me like butch woman, the way Sal Jiang draws them. I read it as just the protagonist being dense and assuming a woman would be with men.

Agreed, reading it a second time without following MC's assumption they're guys, I don't think they're necessarily men.

It does, but I'd rather read a series where it's polyamory from early on, not where someone gets shoehorned into a great relationship between two people who are gonna get married and never gave any hint of being polyamorous. On that note, does anyone have links to some poly yuri?

I wouldn't call it shoehorning if they develop chemistery and flirt and stuff like that. If suddenly they're together with no previous signs of why it would happen, then yeah

last edited at Apr 23, 2022 6:25AM

That women is really pretty overall yes, but seeing tiddies do be hot too and will get me flustered lmao

I can't think of anything more bittersweet than seeing the woman you're in love with, in the beautiful wedding dress, she will be wearing, while marrying someone else.

Aint sweet that's just pain

Well i'm glad I gave chapter 2 a shot. That comment section though jee

I kind of wish they did not explain the labels so directly. I don't want it to get educational and preachy like a few other manga. Just let readers see and understand? It's obvious what the MC is if she feels romantically attracted but not sexually.

This is sorta how I feel too. Loving the representation, but it's too on the nose for my tastes since I don't like it when chapters end up becoming info dumps and takes you out of the story.

But on the other hand I know that sometimes author's need to make it as blunt as possible since there are so few stories that go into the asexual spectrum that this story might be the first exposure a lot of people have to this topic. So it's better to educate someone about it right away.

So yeah sorta mixed feelings about how it was handled, but still enjoying the representation.

Kinda hope it's gonna be represented beyond just the info dumps, but in the drawings the story and all, not just in explanation wording. When there's info dumps like that I'm always worried about "well now they're gonna promply forget about all that shit, no need to show it if you've told it right? I hope it doesn't go that way

last edited at Mar 21, 2022 6:48PM

I feel like for mom to be that upset she must be a closeted gay, herself. I wonder if that's the twist that's coming

I ah, really don’t think that’s where it’s going but that’d be funny

The moms getting together inc?

Tong tong's mom better come in and save the day

Poly discussion aside there's no way this wasn't given the axe and author rushed the end. The handling of Rinna is also just plain weird.

Those chapters are so light it feels really strange

There's not really anything wrong with a teenager wondering if they're aroace and it can be a gay experience with cisheteronormativity and all, but it just sucks that the manga will especially use the terms aro ace only to go down the trope of "you just haven't found the right one yet". This isn't real life with a real teen questionning herself, it's a cafted story where the author has full control. Saying "I've yet to feel romantic attraction" or smth would've felt better than mention probably being aro to then be thrown out the window cause it's a romance manga.