Either they get together by the end or the story begins with them already being together and focuses on the aftermath. There is no inbetween for romance stories. Can you imagine such a bold and risky move?

I would say citrus is an example but even after they got together there was drama that got in the middle of their relationship... it still counts I guess? Or at least citrus + is just focusing on the aftermath lol

Sorry, sorry, that was sarcasm. Many stories focus on several if not all stages of a romantic relationship. No need to bring out the Citrus hammer haha
Nezchan seriously created a new rule just so people wouldnt talk about it, so we all walk on thin ice here

Actually I think you were right even if it was sarcasm. Specifically yuri usually tends to make them get together in the first chapters and then explore their relationship or have them be together from the start (Kase, Hana ni Arashi) or making them be together at the end and then end it right there. Finally, there are stories that do show the whole process of falling in love/getting together and then a few chapters about them being an official couple (usualy the last volume), like ygkm or girl friends, although I can't remember when Akko and Mari got together (chapter 27, end of vol 4?)
I understood "inbetween" as showing both the falling in love/getting together and the aftermath of the characters as a couple, as in, actually getting volumes that focus on the couple now that they are official instead of just a few chapters. But I do think it's not done that way for a reason and I understand writers. Not sure if there are examples of this in shoujo though, haven't read enough of it.

My bad for mentioning citrus, I didn't mean to cause shitpost (I'm glad it didn't turn out that way) :v

last edited at Jul 6, 2019 1:44PM

Calling anything except more jacked-up conflict “fanservice” or “doujins” demonstrates how parochial some readers can be about narrative.

It also shows how many romance stories end as soon as the main conflict is resolved (aka the reason why the main characters didn't get together), to the point it's seen as the standard. Yuri isn't the exception here it seems.

Either they get together by the end or the story begins with them already being together and focuses on the aftermath. There is no inbetween for romance stories. Can you imagine such a bold and risky move?

I would say citrus is an example but even after they got together there was drama that got in the middle of their relationship... it still counts I guess? Or at least citrus + is just focusing on the aftermath lol

Calling anything except more jacked-up conflict “fanservice” or “doujins” demonstrates how parochial some readers can be about narrative.

It also shows how many romance stories end as soon as the main conflict is resolved (aka the reason why the main characters didn't get together), to the point it's seen as the standard. Yuri isn't the exception here it seems.

When the central conflict of a story is resolved, for some unfathomable reason there’s less conflict.

Color me shocked.

I see no reason for sarcasm. Either the story should've ended leaving the rest to specials, doujins etc. Or another conflict introduced. It probably is difficult, albeit not impossible, to add and resolve a conflict within one volume without disrupting the consistency of the rest of the story. Probably a relatively good example that comes to mind is Toradora. But it felt more consistent throughout the whole journey too, or at least that's how I remembered it. Anyway, there might still be some drama hiding behind the cuteness of the last couple of chapters - let's see what the author has in store for us. I do hope the last volume isn't gonna be fanservice only.

Well dude you're failing at seeing the underlying "conflict" (more like misunderstanding) between Touko and Yuu behind the "fanservice"

Regarding the use of first and last names, maybe the scanlator incorrectly used "Nanami-senpai," since that's what Yuu's called Touko for almost 90% of the series.

It does say "Nanami-senpai" in the raws as well.
Tbh I guess it's out of habit, but since this is Nio there may be a deeper meaning, like Yuu not feeling close to Touko (in a girlfriend sense) in this very scene (i am not talking in general). She did seem a bit upset about thinking Touko is not feeling as strongly as her in that page, after all.

last edited at Jul 1, 2019 9:17PM

Don't see the big deal on Yuu calling Touko "Nanami-senpai" on her thoughts. She is probably too used to doing that mentally even if she can call her Touko-senpai verbally at the start of the chapter. She'll get better with practice I guess-

But the main appeal of shoujo-ai is how cute and pure it is, so sex isn't something I see the genre broach a lot.

Is somebody gonna tell them?

Sorry, maybe I'm wrong idk. But I was under the impression that shoujo-ai was more applicable to stories like Sakura Trick whereas pure yuri was more along to lines of Citrus. The last time I read a "shoujo-ai" that seriously handled sex was Aoi Hana I think.

Idk though. If you know of more, please do let me know.

Shoujo-ai means pedophilia in Japan. As in, liking little girls. Relationships between girls/women, regardless of purely sexual or more romantic in nature, are all called yuri. For some reason, American editorials use shoujo ai to refer to romantic stories and yuri for the more sexual ones. And that wrong use has spread through all the West, apparently.

last edited at Jun 30, 2019 6:47PM

Something I noticed (could be wrong, next chapter will tell) is that this chapter is like a parallel to chapter 8 & 9, Multiple Choice (question). In Japanese, chapters 8, 9 & 42 have the word "question" in their titles. And there is this thing about Yuu saying she could have been fine studying with anyone in chapter 8, but in chapter 42, she says she wants to be with someone, but not just anyone.
Maybe chapter 43 could be called Essay Question part 2 (?) Just guessing here~

I hope the ultimate ending is less meh that this last chapter. The story has left too much of an impression on me for the ending to lower it much in my eyes, but still...

Why do you think it's meh? :0

Where did my cool and smooth Yuu go? JK. Happy and dork Yuu is a treasure too.
I hope they both switch :v
Btw Touko has read that lewd lesbian book she bought on Yuu's family bookstore, on accident but at least she has some knowledge +-+

last edited at Jun 30, 2019 1:16PM

I guess I am not the kind who cares about kinda awkward or stiff English/Spanish in translations very much xD Japanese is a very different language from those so i gotta see the effort behind translating such language even if the result is a bit awkward x.x as long as the ideas from the original are conveyed clearly

By what measure would you rate quality of a translation, if not by how accurate and flowing it is?
This isn't about effort or comprehension (although the latter certainly matters too and can be botched up even by higher quality teams). Then there is type-setting, clean-up and redrawing to consider too for more quality.

I don't know most groups or how good they are, I merely consume. And the early translations for most manga are always second rate. That is the consequence of rushing something out. Whether it's a lack of effort, skill or time, low quality is low quality and I'm not getting on the scanlation groups' back for it. After all I wasn't complaining.

The low quality translations exist for those who aren't patient enough to wait for the polished product and that's their niche. Nothing wrong with that.

That's why I said their translation is good imo. It's accurate, it's not like they are doing machine translation and getting the lines from the original wrong. The sentences flow? YMMV I guess. If we don't know Japanese at all, how can we tell the translation is accurate? By how pretty the English sentences sound? We just blindly trust the translator?
A fansub being fast doesn't mean they are giving low quality or rushing their work. Maybe they have enough free time to sit and translate/type in 2 days, who knows.
For example, the first translations for this manga were pretty bad because the fansub translated from Chinese, and they either weren't good at it or the Chinese got some parts wrong. That is what I would call low quality or even worse than that because some sentence are totally wrong.
Neither yagakimi fansub does cleaning for all the SFX but I don't consider that an aspect of good quality since these are fan translations. If Seven Seas didn't clean their stuff I would complain (if i bought their version..)
That being said, I don't know what aspect of KS is "low quality" for you.

last edited at Jun 28, 2019 9:31AM

Darkness within darkness awaits in this thread. Does this mean the low quality translation is already out?

If by low quality translation you mean Kusoshop, that's not ver fair :8. They are good (4s too), not taking as many liberties as 4s when it comes to sentence construction doesn't necessarily make it "low quality" imo. That's not to mention 4s has made a couple of important mistakes in the past so having more translations to check out is a good thing... Or you were joking when you said "low quality" because they call themselves that in a mock sense... if that's the case, my bad, please excuse me and ignore my lame comment :,D

The Spanish version is good too so i am gonna have to disagree with Serenata as well :p i understood all of it and didn't see horrible grammar mistakes like in other manga translated in Spanish (which is why I consumme media on English). :0

I guess I am not the kind who cares about kinda awkward or stiff English/Spanish in translations very much xD Japanese is a very different language from those so i gotta see the effort behind translating such language even if the result is a bit awkward x.x as long as the ideas from the original are conveyed clearly

last edited at Jun 28, 2019 8:54AM

I haven't read the Sayaka novel yet (I'm really not that invested with her) but for those who did, do you think there's a possibility that she might get her own post ending continuation/spin off ? because Yuu's story is coming to an end but I'm pretty sure a lot of readers want a happy ending for Sayaka too.

And I don't know if this novel is just about the past and only one chapter or if there's hint for more.

First novel is a prequel about Sayaka's childhood and a girl she met back then and about her middle school years when she was dating her ex girlfriend. Second novel is mostly another prequel that covers her first year of high school with Touko, with the first chapter showing a bit about her relationship with Yuu from Sayaka's POV, and then the epilogue shows Sayaka in her second year of college. A third novel has been confirmed, which is a sequel that will follow up that epilogue.
At the end of the second novel, Sayaka meets a kohai in college who starts talking to her. Pretty sure this girl will be her new love interest.
So yeah, I am sure Sayaka will get her happy end.
Sadly not by Nakatani in manga format but at least she will make illustrations...

PS The novel has been translated by Rainy devils in spanish just in case you're curious and know the language

Bless, it's my native language =v

last edited at Jun 22, 2019 1:32PM

The one thing that I really, really respect about this story is that the author doesn't use "labels". Not once do I remember any mention of gay, lesbian, homosexual, or even yuri. Sure, there was the occasional, "both girls," but that was it, unless the translations skipped it. (Please correct me if this is the case.) You could take either character, Yuu or Touko, change their sex, and it would still work. I'm a person who dislikes labels. I don't identify with anything, so this story has been a fantastic read for me.

Agree in regards to Touko and Yuu, the other characters (except for Riko perhaps) have their sexual orientations implied but clear enough for the reader to know even if it's not mentioned. And I think that's cool too.

Lmao Seju was terrible. I don't know what's the definition of "best third wheel" though

Well, most third wheels are just a narrative obstacle at best, or an active agent of evil at worst. Although they may be necessary for the functioning of the plot, the audience usually basically wishes them away.

If we do sympathize with them, it’s as an object of pity, or, if the writing is off, it becomes Second-Lead Syndrome, where the audience ultimately prefers the third-wheel character in place of one half of the OTP.

If the writing is really off, as in WDTFS or Milton’s Paradise Lost, the antagonist is made more interesting than the bland or misconceived protagonists, and the whole center of gravity of the story gets thrown out of whack.

Rarely are third-wheel characters admirable as people in their own right, integral parts of the storyworld going forward after the central conflict is resolved, and not seen as diminished or contemptible due to their rejection.

That’s my take, anyway.

I meant I don't know what's matsuri's definition of what makes a third wheel the best. From their comments I can just infer they like characters with issues, troublesome and unhealthy relationships, so I assume a good third wheel for them is similar to something like that.
Sorry for the misunderstanding but I agree with your take :^)

last edited at Jun 9, 2019 4:05AM

Lmao Seju was terrible. I don't know what's the definition of "best third wheel" though

moments of denial and repressed feelings.

You’ve just cited the absolute essence of tsundere.

And there was a reason I used the phrase “slightest whiff.”

No? Touko is the reason this happened. If this was a trait of Yuu, it should continue even in chapter 41, but now Yuu can be as expressive and honest as she wants. Not even a trace of "slighest whiff" imo. The most tsundere Yuu I've seen was in chapter 32 and that's probably it.
Guess I dislike those kind of terms applied in yagakimi characters because I see them as framing the characters into sterotypes.

last edited at Jun 5, 2019 5:20AM

Sayaka is just respecting a worthy opponent after all, Yuu basically trounced her from day one. Her last minute confession was but a desperate hail mary whilst the opposing team is already up by 14 points with ten seconds to go.

Accurate enough as a summary of the outcome, but your metaphor reminds us that Touko’s original love epiphany about Yuu was that Yuu didn’t want anything from Touko.

“Everybody” wanted Touko to be perfect (or so Touko believed).
The parade of confessants, male and female, wanted Touko as a lover.
Sayaka wanted Touko as a friend (or so she led to Touko to believe).

The point is that, because she (silently) wanted something more from Touko that she was willing to give, Sayaka never had a chance—Yuu outplayed her by not playing the same game.

(That’s why there’s always been the slightest whiff of tsundere about the otherwise darling, doting Yuu—Touko could only be wooed by a total disavowal of courtship, and Yuu even convinced herself that the things she did for her senpai she “would have done the same for anybody.”)

Tsundere...? Yuu?
I do believe her when she said she would have done the same for anybody. I mean Yuu during the first 2 volumes. She joined the softball team because her friend asked her to. She is that kind of person who would do things for the sake of others, she is a caretaker. She joined the Student Council because a girl needed her and Yuu thought she was the only one who could help her (something Touko explicitly told her). Nothing necessarily romantic about that, I can see Yuu doing it for others as well. Maybe, there were some very tiny feelings by the time chapter 7 hit, when Yuu was worried about Touko before herself, but this is still Yuu-like behavior. Like I said, all things Yuu did for Touko from chapters 1-9 she would do for anybody else, since they weren't strictly romantic things (excluding Yuu agreeing to kiss,since this was her being interested on romance and finding a chance to experience that on Touko).
It becomes an entire different situation in chapter 16, when Yuu was clearly in denial. Ofc there is nothing "normal and not special" about kissing senpai and liking all of those things about her she listed. But this isn't Yuu being tsundere, it's rather the consecuence of being forbidden to fall in love with the person she wants to love. From here on, I can't really remember Yuu saying her "I would do it for anybody else" phrase. Just more moments of denial and repressed feelings.

last edited at Jun 5, 2019 12:44AM

Idk if I should mention it but Volume is spelt Volum on the 7th one

And special 6 goes between chapter 36 & 37- otherwise Miyako and Riko's conversation about Sayaka makes no sense. And volume 8 starts with chapter 40... mods please :'D

Ehhh, Sayaka wouldn't have been jealous and felt worried about Yuu's presence if she didn't think Touko was interested in Yuu, either romantically or whatever, she was still aware Touko was pretty fond of Yuu and eventually accepted that fact while still not fully admitting that Touko was in love with Yuu.
And well, like I mentioned, this whole thing was cleared entirely in the novel. Unless some people don't want to consider it canon because it was only supervised but not written by Nakatani.

I'm one of those who doesn't take third party author's interpretations at face value. They are written with hindsight and add things that are not necessarily intended originally (but waved through by Nakatani, because it doesnt harm anything).
The manga at least has been far more ambiguous about it.

Fair enough, the manga has been ambiguous about it, but that's also due to a novel having Sayaka's POV and exploring her thoughts in a way more extensive level manga can, since this is Touko and Yuu's story after all. I thought the same as you regarding other author exploring yagakimi's world, but decided to give it a try and read it. It is good IMO, but i am still kinda ambivalent between taking all of it as canon or not (after all, the third novel will have Sayaka finding love and I for sure want that to be canon, along with Nakatani's illustrations of it).

Touko and novel aside, I am one of those who think Sayaka and Yuu have good chemistry... as friends. They seem to have some similarities in personality. Ofc I don't think a romance could be possible even if Touko is removed, but friendship, sure.

last edited at Jun 1, 2019 2:25PM

Hm, to me it only felt like she had an inkling that Yuu might be interested in Touko, but not necessarily the other way around.

In a sense this is true, but her attention is drawn to Yuu in the first place because of the inordinate fuss Touko made about Yuu from the beginning; i.e., Touko's "fondness" for Yuu is the red flag for Sayaka, not the way Yuu acts toward Touko.

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch07#13

That's true, but we also know that Sayaka trusted in the fact that nobody can approach Touko's true self. In the end she was disgruntled, but didn't feel threatened. I mean look at the chapter where she talked to Miyako. She seemed only aware that Touko opened up, but she didn't even consider for one second that Touko and Yuu might already be involved with each other. Someone as thoughtful as Sayaka would at the very least have wasted a single thought on the possibility of being too late, no?

Ehhh, Sayaka wouldn't have been jealous and felt worried about Yuu's presence if she didn't think Touko was interested in Yuu, either romantically or whatever, she was still aware Touko was pretty fond of Yuu and eventually accepted that fact while still not fully admitting or thinking deep down that Touko was in love with Yuu. And by time chapter 26 happened, she realised Yuu loved Touko.
And well, like I mentioned, this whole thing was cleared entirely in the novel. Unless some people don't want to consider it canon because it was only supervised and approved but not written by Nakatani (and her editor).

last edited at Jun 1, 2019 2:18PM

Sayaka always had the bully trait in her and it's completely fine to feel a little sour, but the important thing is that she conceded gracefully.
I still remember when certain people claimed Sayaka would not be able to co-exist with Touko and Yuu if she got rejected or found out about them some chapters ago. Hahaha.

I have always had this vague feeling that she alrealy knew about their growing sentiments the moment when Touko started calling Yuu by name in the student council room.
I can't say that I don't admire Sayaka's courage when she made her confession. She knew she was fighting a loosing battle. Maybe it was because her side of the triangle was settled so well that it would just feel odd if she and Yuu couldn't co-exist after Yuu and Touko got together. Even whith the thick awkward air they shared since the start, I had been under the impression that Sayaka and Yuu got along really well. Touko was the only real reason that they seemed to have gunpowder in the air.

Besides, Sayaka has never stuck me as someone who would throw a pity party for herself if and when she trips.

All of this is correct, confirmed by Sayaka's light novel 2, whose first chapter explores in great detail how she has felt about Yuu ever since she met her and how those feelings have changed as Sayaka saw Yuu and Touko getting closer and closer, and how Touko ended up changing. Said chapter has been translated in English already, can link if someone wants it.
About Yuu and Sayaka getting along (SPOILER): they actually became good friends during their college years. And even before that, Sayaka started to see Yuu as a friend back in high school. Novel is really great, I found this to be a good development.

EDIT: might as well just link it

Chapter 1 (Sayaka and Yuu): https://greatpassage.wordpress.com/yagate-kimi-ni-naru-saeki-sayaka-ni-tsuite-2/chapter-1-love-and-koito/
Chapter 3 (Sayaka in college): https://greatpassage.wordpress.com/yagate-kimi-ni-naru-saeki-sayaka-ni-tsuite-2/chapter-3-epilogue-beyond-the-sky/

Chapter 2 is about Sayaka's first year of high school and is still being translated since it's too long.

last edited at Jun 1, 2019 1:26PM

Sayaka always had the bully trait in her and it's completely fine to feel a little sour, but the important thing is that she conceded gracefully.
I still remember when certain people claimed Sayaka would not be able to co-exist with Touko and Yuu if she got rejected or found out about them some chapters ago. Hahaha.

I have always had this vague feeling that she alrealy knew about their growing sentiments the moment when Touko started calling Yuu by name in the student council room.
I can't say that I don't admire Sayaka's courage when she made her confession. She knew she was fighting a loosing battle. Maybe it was because her side of the triangle was settled so well that it would just feel odd if she and Yuu couldn't co-exist after Yuu and Touko got together. Even whith the thick awkward air they shared since the start, I had been under the impression that Sayaka and Yuu got along really well. Touko was the only real reason that they seemed to have gunpowder in the air.

Besides, Sayaka has never stuck me as someone who would throw a pity party for herself if and when she trips.

All of this is correct, confirmed by Sayaka's light novel 2, whose first chapter explores in great detail how she has felt about Yuu ever since she met her and how those feelings have changed as Sayaka saw Yuu and Touko getting closer and closer, and how Touko ended up changing. Said chapter has been translated in English already, can link if someone wants it.
About Yuu and Sayaka getting along (SPOILER): they actually became good friends during their college years. And even before that, Sayaka started to see Yuu as a friend back in high school. Novel is really great, I found this to be a good development.

And now, drama! (j/k)

Touko is a lot more chill about it. But at the same time, she's older.

Actually, she and Yuu are the same age. Yuu would be in second year if she had born a week earlier. But Touko is still the senpai here, so maybe she will finally start acting like one :,D

last edited at Jun 1, 2019 12:01PM

EDIT: And I have rarely seen couples in any Asian popular media (manga, anime, manhwa, and Korean, Japanese or Chinese TV dramas) routinely kiss or hug as a greeting or to say goodbye.

I agree. Couples kissing and showing PDA in public is not something well seen in Japan and I haven't really seen it in other yuri manga either. What if someone sees them? Homophobia could be an issue, made even worse by the fact they are wearing their school uniforms. Holding hands and Yuu clinging to Touko's arm should be enough as far as Japanese PDA goes. Yuu and Touko have only kissed in closed spaces so far, with the exception being chapters 2 & 34, understandable since their feelings were overflowing, and even then, Touko made sure no one saw then when she kissed Yuu (and during the kiss on the river, i am not sure anyone could have actually seen them anyways).
It's only been a day since chapter 40 happened, with them not having the chance yet to be alone together in a private place so they can be "passionate" all they want. Nakatani will probably deliver later.

last edited at May 30, 2019 11:38AM