TongTong, if you keep scolding your girlfriend, she’s going to have an orgasm. Um, wait, . .

I always struggle with plots where all that's necessary to progress is tell somebody to fuck off and move on with life. It's not actually much of a challenge, and especially in this situation, where there's barely any connection between the two ... ^^

Right—I’m ten times more interested in how Xiao-Lu’s going to let her kink-flag fly than in what happens with Shithead-chan, and the kink thing itself could be solved (as I said) with a “Kink for Beginners” pamphlet.

(Getting TongTong to believably role-play dominance/pain on her darling duckling may well be a harder lift, but all that remains to be seen.)

These two are always quite adorable in any case, so I’m not really going to complain, but . . .

Is Bai Yan really straight
There’s a lot of mix signal here

Not to mention the clashing signals of “cut her out of my life” versus “we gradually drifted apart.”

I’m looking forward to hearing from Xiao-Lu exactly what happened between the two of them back in the day.

I find it hard pressed to see the Yuri in this one. Felt more subtextie.

They want to spend the rest of their lives together, preserving their precious feelings—they are: Super-Roommates!

I guess author-san could have thrown an “Isn’t the moon beautiful?” scene in there, just to seal the deal.

At some level I understand the “horse race” way of reading romance manga, but it’s just not the primary way I think about reading stories—I’m mostly interested in what the author is doing with the pieces of the narrative and how they’re doing it. In this case, I think it’s fascinating how the strange premise, especially the 7-year gap with characters at this age (these ages), sets up so many unusual emotional complications.

Sure, as imaginary people, Aya is the “best” of the lot—brave, forward-thinking, trying to do the best with the bizarre cards she’s been dealt—while Koto and Erika are both stuck living in the past in different ways and not doing too well at it. But it’s hard for me to see the characters as the equivalent of sports teams, where I’m “rooting” for one over the other.

2) How exactly will Bai Yan's (obviously doomed) attempt to steal Xiao Lu get connected to Xiao Lu's subby sexual yearnings (assuming it does)?

imo it looks like ex-friends-that's-a-bit-too-late is attempting to manipulate that dude with a crush to interfere in some way.

Which will probably trigger some more jealousy/possessiveness/protectiveness, similar to this chapter, and somewhere along the line Tongtong's going to realize what's going on with Xiao Lu.

I agree, which is why I think that Chapter 6.5 isn’t canon to the main story—neither of them would have forgotten a direct statement of Xiao Lu’s desire for domination followed by actual whatever the BDSM community term is for collar/leash play (not my scene, but that bell was pretty cute, btw).

I hadn’t thought through why ex-friend-chan was thinking about that guy—intervening between TongTong and Xiao Lu with a hunky guy is the very definition of Doomed Plan.

Yet more evidence that all Chinese lesbians are impossibly gorgeous. And rich, or at least high-status.

How exactly will Bai Yan's (obviously doomed) attempt to steal Xiao Lu get connected to Xiao Lu's subby sexual yearnings (assuming it does)? I'd expect TongTong to be taken aback at first at the prospect of ordering her beloved partner to bark like a dog, etc. in the bedroom, but she's shown herself to be nothing if not game when it comes to pleasing her little darling. A beginner's intro-to-kink pamphlet would seem to be all that's needed to get things on the right track in the conjugal bedroom.

I am assuming this chapter was a foreshadowing of what's to come. They'll easily thwart Bai Yan's nonsense because they aren't stupid (and are already happily "married"). In the process, Tongtong will accidentally do DOM things and eventually, she'll realize Xiao Lu seems to turn to puddy whenever she's pinned against a wall to hide from Bai (or Xiao Lu will get frustrated from being "teased" and outright confess). Then maybe they'll talk about turning those accidents into "not accidents," and upping their frequency.

I guess a third question would be, given the ease with which Xiao Lu gets aroused by any suggestion of dominant behavior, whether she'll turn out to just need some light explicit kink to melt into a puddle of goo or if she'll lead them into a bottomless abyss of harder and harder BDSM role-play. (Not that there's anything wrong, etc. But TongTong's such a sweetie--and the overall tone of the series is such--that it's hard to imagine the latter outcome.)

Just re-read the whole thing, and I am left with two questions going forward:

1) What exactly was the relationship between Bai Yan and Xiao Lu back in the day? It's not entirely clear that it was a specifically romantic relationship (although it might have been) beyond Xiao Lu's crush that ended when Bai Yan opted for a boyfriend.

2) How exactly will Bai Yan's (obviously doomed) attempt to steal Xiao Lu get connected to Xiao Lu's subby sexual yearnings (assuming it does)? I'd expect TongTong to be taken aback at first at the prospect of ordering her beloved partner to bark like a dog, etc. in the bedroom, but she's shown herself to be nothing if not game when it comes to pleasing her little darling. A beginner's intro-to-kink pamphlet would seem to be all that's needed to get things on the right track in the conjugal bedroom.

EDIT: @Linterdiction: I'm not sure that extra chapter is supposed to be canon to the main story--it looks more like the fan-request/occasional stuff in some of the other chapters. If TongTong had been directly told way back then "I want to be dominated and ordered around," I don't think Xiao Lu would be so hesitant about bringing up the subject now that they're living together.

I particularly noticed on a re-read that that there were almost no references to Xiao Lu's desires for kink for long stretches of the story.

last edited at Nov 12, 2024 3:47PM

Blastaar posted:
You do argue two slightly different things, though: that Erika "knows" how Aya really feels and that she "guesses" how she feels, and I think only the latter is the case. Aya is definitely acting as if she isn't deeply affected by the breakup.

To add my two cents as the translator, I used "most likely, Aya hides her sadness and pain behind a smile" as Erika's thought, but it's a choice.

Because the Japanese is きっと, which if you look at https://jisho.org/search/%E3%81%8D%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A8 means "surely; undoubtedly; almost certainly; most likely (e.g. 90 percent)".

I chose to translate it as the last one, to keep the bit of uncertainty, but it could have been "I'm sure Aya hides her sadness and pain behind a smile".

In short, there's very little doubt Erika is perfectly aware that Aya is in pain, and doesn't really care.

I guess at this point it's close to beating a dead horse, but I don't think there's ever been any doubt that Erika believes or strongly suspects that Aya is in pain over the breakup with Koto--it's perfectly natural that she would be. But Aya is making a concerted effort to appear to Erika as if she's OK.

So would Erika be a better, more ethical person if she were to tell Koto that? Would that be a consolation to Koto? Would it make Koto think that there's a greater chance of getting Aya back under Koto's "stay locked in a room with me and pretend we're back in middle school" terms?

For that matter, would Erika in fact be a better friend to Aya if she were to tell Koto that "Aya acts like she's OK, but I think she's just pretending"?

last edited at Nov 11, 2024 5:25PM

Blastaar posted:
Aya has in fact given Erika no indication that she isn’t as “fine” as she appears to be, so for Erika to say otherwise to Koto would be stating an untruth.

The thing is, Erika knows that Aya isn't fine. In the beginning of the last chapter, she recalls the time Aya was crying when Koto presented her as "the daughter of a relative" or something like that. She takes a guess that Aya isn't as fine as she pretends to be. She guesses that the breakup has left Aya in pain and distress.

While she doesn't lie to Koto, she omits to mention it. Lie by omission is a thing. By not mentioning it, she suggests to Koto that Aya, "surprisingly", wasn't much affected by the breakup.

So, while she doesn't lie, she still orients the flow in the way that'll advance her own agenda. I wouldn't call it "manipulation", but she clearly says (or doesn't say) what fits her goal, which is to peel Aya off of Koto, definitively.

I don't think anybody's saying anything different, though--things are now going the way Erika wants them to, and she's not doing anything to change that. You do argue two slightly different things, though: that Erika "knows" how Aya really feels and that she "guesses" how she feels, and I think only the latter is the case. Aya is definitely acting as if she isn't deeply affected by the breakup.

As a hypothetical, what would be accomplished by Erika telling Koto something like, "Aya is acting brave and cheerful, but I'm sure she's hurting deep inside?" Would Aya and Koto be any closer to a reconciliation or would Koto be any more likely to change her toxic conception of what a romantic relationship with Aya should be like?

What's the point of manipulating the truth to break them up

But she didn't! She told the truth of what can be directly observed: Aya is 'fine', energetic and pushing forward. "Aya hiding her pain" is Erika's own inference.

I never say Erika is trying to break them up here. What l am saying is Erika is trying to let Koto give up on Aya. Letting her know Aya doesn't even feel any sorrow about their breakup is a good way to let anyone give up.

You continue to distort what actually happens in the manga and to ignore the arguments that others here are making. Erika says nothing about whether Aya feels sorrow or not. She says, “She’s fine.” Aya has in fact given Erika no indication that she isn’t as “fine” as she appears to be, so for Erika to say otherwise to Koto would be stating an untruth.

The fundamental issue is that events are currently playing out basically the way that Erika wants them to go without the need for Erika to lie to anyone or for her to give bad advice to either Aya or Koto.

You argue that Erika’s actions make her manipulative and disgusting. Others disagree.

last edited at Nov 9, 2024 7:30AM

It's just so stupid.

On that we are agreed.

She's suck but it doesn't mean she never tried lol.

Gonna need examples of Erika trying to be manipulative.

③Chapter 16：
→"She's fine. It's even surprising."

That's the reply when Koto ask "How is Aya-chan？" Erika knows Aya is not really fine but still chose to say that. She wants Koto to move on so badly to the degree that she is disgusting me here.

This is a fine example of how your personal antipathy towards the characters distorts your “analysis” of the story. Yes, we are shown that Erika assumes that Aya is suffering emotionally from the breakup with Koto, but Aya is presenting to Erika precisely as Erika describes her. Almost certainly Erika’s description is exactly what Aya would want her to tell Koto.

Well, you would convince me if Erika didn't show her disappointment the same page and her annoyance next page.

To note, Koto had been talking all about Aya the moment Erika sat in her apartment. Then why suddenly got annoyed？ You can see Erika's face was full of hope after replying Koto that Aya is pretty fine, but turned to great disappointment (in the same page) when she found out Koto still only focused on Aya.
(Of course, if you can't tell it from the picture. We can't continue this pointless talk)

Obviously we are shown what Erika is feeling and thinking--I never said we weren't. But the challenge was to present concrete evidence that Erika has been manipulating the truth in an attempt to break up Aya and Koto. In that case, how Erika feels is irrelevant to the matter of what she actually says and does. She is telling the truth about how Aya seems to be doing, and under the circumstances it would not be reasonable for her to say anything different even if she didn't have feelings for Koto.

l just don't know where your hostility comes from. But l guess l don't actually care. You are free to hate me.

Your emotional projection has now reached ridiculous proportions. I do find your readings of the story (or rather your judgmental evaluations of the characters as if they were real people) to be unconvincing; the fact that you somehow interpret that as "hatred" of you personally is of a piece with the way you read the story.

She's suck but it doesn't mean she never tried lol.

Gonna need examples of Erika trying to be manipulative.

③Chapter 16：
→"She's fine. It's even surprising."

That's the reply when Koto ask "How is Aya-chan？" Erika knows Aya is not really fine but still chose to say that. She wants Koto to move on so badly to the degree that she is disgusting me here.

This is a fine example of how your personal antipathy towards the characters distorts your “analysis” of the story. Yes, we are shown that Erika assumes that Aya is suffering emotionally from the breakup with Koto, but Aya is presenting herself to Erika precisely as Erika describes her. Almost certainly Erika’s description is exactly what Aya would want her to tell Koto.

Erika is not Aya’s therapist or someone whose job it is to reveal to Koto what Aya is really feeling, nor would it be her place even if she were an entirely neutral party to facilitate the obviously unhealthy relationship that Koto wants to have with Aya.

You of course are free to be “disgusted” by anything you choose.

last edited at Nov 8, 2024 8:50AM

Her reappearance is related to Erika but I strongly think that her disappear is also somehow related to her. My guess is: they talked (Erika, Aya) with each other after the "kissing scene" (deja vu moment confirms it) and she became jealous, so she wrote a paper at the Tanabata. Maybe it's not that simple but... lol

That’s all perfectly logical and may well turn out to be the case. The question of why Erika felt guilty after Aya disappeared, however, doesn’t necessarily depend on Erika a) having supernatural wishing abilities, or b) having conscious knowledge that she has such abilities.

I’m sure any number of people in history have had the misfortune of saying something in a fit of emotion to someone they were connected to like, “I wish you were dead!” or “Why don’t you just go away forever?” only to have that person die or disappear without seeing them again, leaving the first person feeling terrible forever without actually believing themselves to have supernatural mental powers. (Although bringing someone back unchanged after seven years via a Tanabata wish would probably cause a reconsideration of the whole matter.)

Of course, if we get a flashback of a demon appearing to Erika at the middle-school Tanabata festival offering her three wishes in return for her immortal soul, I’ll take all this back.

I give up. This is a manga not a novel. Sometimes we can simply tell character's emotion from the picture. The text is not the only and usual way to show it. But l guess it's pointless since you can't even sense Koto's unhappiness in chapter 7 when it's like a piece of cake to me. And l don't have the obligation to teach you.

Lol. Like any other person familiar with the criticism of comics/manga/manhua/bandes dessinées/fumetti, etc., by “text” I mean the combination of the words and the pictures that are actually on the page.

In other words, what the manga actually shows rather speculation or projection about what did or will happen.

It’s reasonable to speculate that Erika expressed her jealousy to Aya at the festival, but we have no solid evidence about that. Erika’s present-day guilt and self-loathing could simply be about wishing for something bad to happen to her friends’ relationship that then actually happened. (And the story has made it crystal-clear that Aya and Erika actually were friends (as well as rivals) in middle school.)

I don't think it's a coincidence that author let Aya and Koto both use the same word (親友) to describe the friendship they have with Erika. And the different way how Erika reacted to it (guilty degree) is very interesting (chapter 12 and chapter 8). That's even before Aya broke up with Koto.

But ofc there's nothing l can say if you can't tell the difference.
(l am not intended to insult you or anything. Just l still remember our debate before. You seem like not very sensitive when it comes to people's emotional issues)

"Tell the difference" between what? I'm talking, as usual, about actual evidence in the text.

So, the theory about the "spiriting away" thing is that when someone feels like there is no reason to stay, like around the people they like and they feel like that they're always just a nuisance to them, that causes the "spriting away" thing? I'm sure it's pretty much related to Tanabata but we don't really know anything about that topic yet.

So far the story has played it very close to the vest regarding its supernatural aspect, and at this point we really don’t know anything at all about the “spiriting away”—how it happens or why it happens.

In that case, it's started when Aya's family fallen apart (her mother left her alone) plus when Erika told Aya that she's just a bothersome person after she became jealous of them? Imo, Erika is not the only one whom induced her disappearance but she sure played a big part in that.. Then Aya is the no.1 victim here.

It’s reasonable to speculate that Erika expressed her jealousy to Aya at the festival, but we have no solid evidence about that. Erika’s present-day guilt and self-loathing could simply be about wishing for something bad to happen to her friends’ relationship that then actually happened. (And the story has made it crystal-clear that Aya and Erika actually were friends (as well as rivals) in middle school.)

The fact that Erika later made a Tanabata wish that Aya would return and then Aya returned suggests that Erika does have some connection to the “spirited away” phenomenon, but exactly what that relation is and how much Erika is aware of or in control of it is a completely open question.

As far as Aya being a “victim,” while her “missing years” can hardly be seen as a good thing, she definitely viewed not having to deal with her aging grandfather’s dementia as a major positive aspect of her “hiatus.”

What a blast from the past! Many thanks to the translators for picking this up again. :-)

I was just mentally putting this in my “yuri webtoons I like that got dropped by scanlators” list yesterday. Delighted to see it back!

Just to be clear, this series really is that infrequently updated!

Welp. O__O This is gonna be a long century, then...

Technically just under the “one full year hiatus” deadline, so judges will (grudgingly) allow it.

I don't know about Nadeshiko, but how is Yuu the "same type of person" as Akira (or Erika)? What exactly is this type supposed to be? I don't see the connection. If anything, Sayaka from Bloom Into You has way more in common with these characters than Yuu does.

Serious personality type, which makes you feel you can't even play a joke on them. It's just my preference.

Huh... Was Yuu really like that?
Time for a re-read I guess

Yuu was not like that. She was mostly (but not always) serious with Touko, but she bantered with her friends like any other character. That’s my subjective, personal read, anyway.

I just don’t like people who “like” or “blame” fictional characters. It’s just the way I am.

Oh, wait—saying that is just as pointless as “liking” or “blaming” fictional characters, isn’t it?

My bad.

Some of you guys are blaming Koto for being immature and this and that even after years... Poor girl "lost" her first and only love at 14 (emotionally immature), it's not suprising that she couldn't cope with the fact that Aya dissapeared. She sadly got stuck in that state of mind as you said it before but it's shows how much she loved her and it also wasn't a typical farewell, like breaking up or smth and the emotions between them at that time was really intense, so... Big big trauma she has, kinda understandable, imo. Koto didn't do anything remarkable in her life.. I think she just wanted to survive those seven years after Aya went missing. Also, she always wanted to replace or find Aya but it never worked out. These are the facts.. so, yeah, she needs a good therapy for sure. I feel like, soon there'll be a lot of drama !!!

It's not blaming, at least for the most part, just describing. I personally have zero interest in assigning guilt or blame or moral culpability when discussing characters in fiction, just their the details of their characterization and role and relationships instead.

Right. Pointing out that Koto is the only one who currently refers to the others with “-chan” like in middle school isn’t criticizing the character or saying she shouldn’t do it—it’s pointing out a device the author is using to show a difference between her and the other two. Same with the depiction of Koto and Aya in middle-school uniforms when Koto pleads for things to go back the way they were in the past—it’s a narrative technique for showing Koto’s view of the world.

EDIT: And it’s interesting how the (so far minimally developed) supernatural aspect of the story affects our perception of the characters’ emotional and psychological development. I’d bet strongly that seven years later few college students are in relationships with the person who was their first crush when they were 14. If Aya had just moved away without notice (which is not an uncommon romance-manga trope) or otherwise disappeared and stayed gone, Koto’s hanging on to Aya’s memory as she has would, I believe, come off as very unusual, to say the least.

last edited at Nov 6, 2024 6:38AM

Also, I'm not really sure if Erika is trying to break the triangle "without hurting either Koto or Aya." She knows very well that the breakup she always wished for hurt both Koto and Aya a great deal. Of course, from an objective perspective, the breakup was necessary regardless. But Erika still knew her plan would result in this pain, and she went through with it anyway.

I’m not following this last part at all—what “plan” of Erika’s did she “go through with”? That phrasing implies that Erika has played an active role in causing Koto and Aya to break up.

While there have been oblique hints that Aya’s disappearance and return were somehow connected to Erika’s Tanabata wishes in some undefined way, there’s been no indication of exactly what that mechanic might have been or how much Erika is knowingly implicated in what actually happened.

Erika certainly wished that Aya would be gone, and then later wished that she would return so that Koto could get over her feelings for her. But as far as we know at this point, Erika had no reason to believe that either of those wishes could or would come true. Her “plan” appears to have been to wait for Koto to stop being in love with Aya while continuing to play the role of their mutual friend. Given Koto’s attitude toward Aya and toward the past, all the evidence that we have seen suggests that the two of them would have broken up even if Erika were far away or didn’t even exist at all.

last edited at Nov 5, 2024 4:37PM

I don't know what's so complicated about Erika. She just wants Koto to chose her over Aya. That's her "desire". That would resolve all her inferiority complexes and longing.

For that, she wants Koto to be clear headed about Aya and not wallow in her obsession, so she's trying to "break the triangle" in her own way, without hurting either Koto or Aya.

After all, she's the only one who knows the triangle exists.

I don’t think “subtle” is necessarily the same as “complicated.” Erika’s motivations are just as you say, but unlike most characters who want a couple to break up, her questions and advice to both parties are pretty much what a truly neutral but sympathetic person would say. It’s only because we get those interior views that we see her ulterior motives and how she has always felt guilty and insecure about herself.

Erika’s “manipulation” of the situation, such as it is, usually consists of what she omits to say. As I mentioned, Koto’s absolute refusal to tell Aya what she did during Aya’s missing years doesn’t make a lot of sense, but Erika never pushes back to say that Aya would probably be fine knowing the truth.

@Cogito: On reflection I agree that Chapter 15 implies that Erika may be more ready to make an immediate move than I was suggesting. I still think it’s a bit out of character for her to blunder with a premature romantic advance on Koto after waiting all those years for Koto to get clear of her feelings for Aya.

[Narrator: Koto shows no signs of ever getting clear of her feelings for Aya.]

last edited at Nov 5, 2024 6:24AM