^About whether Sayaka would kiss Touko but, I think it's also important to consider if Touko would allow that. I can't imagine her kissing Sayaka. I doubt Nakatani would use this method either.

I hope she won't use it, but it's not unthinkable. Touko is very confused right now and if Sayaka is really determined... thing could happen due to all kinds of circumstances. It's defnitely a brute force method of snapping Touko out of it. Not appreciated tho.

I'm not baselessly assuming. I'm just saying things are not black and white, especially not for teenagers. That should go without saying really...Now if the chemistry IS there, well, I suppose at least Sayaka got to kiss Touko and enjoy that moment no? That's better than not ever kissing her at all, since she will have to move on and suffer regardless if Touko doesn't love her back. She is the character I like most after Yuu so I would be happy for her. I mean, she would get to make out with her long-time crush AND then move on with no sense of loss, while still remaining friends with her; what else could be better? It's such a good deal it will obviously not become true lol

Maybe we just process crush-like feelings differently. Doesn't mean your way is The Only Way.

See, that's why I say you are superficial and don't care about the characters. Saying it's better that she kissed her than not doing it for the sake of itself is wrong. It hurts more the further she gets before being rejected, why don't you see that? Sayaka wouldn't see it as a good thing of "At least I kissed her!" when she isn't loved back. It's a pointless thing that only makes her feel even worse about herself.
What do you mean no sense of loss? Are you alright? I'm starting to think you are projecting here.

The whole point I am making is that it's not just a crush. I wonder how you still didn't figure that out...

Pretty sure at various moments Yuu implied (and Touko understood) that she wanted to be kissed because it felt good. Even in the last episode of the anime, Touko jokes that she is perv/naughty because that's what she understood. Do you think Yuu is like Mother Theresa or something? lmao

You seem to be misinterpreting "I didn't dislike it" as "I like it" for some reason. That would expain your skewed view of things. What she meant by that is that she doesn't feel bad about it, to explain why she lets Touko do it without telling her true intentions (which are to use Touko's affection to realize romantic feelings).
Until this ordeal Yuu didn't even consider liking girls, much less finding them attractive. She also absolutely said she didn't feel anything from the kiss. The first time she showed a strong reaction was during the toolshed scene. Which was at a point where she awakened her feelings for Touko already, which puts a kiss in an entirely different perspective.

Looks like I've struck a nerve here. But personally I don't see physicality as superficial, rather it's essential for romance. I'm actually pretty happy that more and more yuri manga/manhwa shows that aspect rather than being all about fake "pure feelings" (whatever that means).

I dislike being called a "romantic idealist" for taking the source material for what it is. That's the only nerve you struck.

You misunderstand. The physical aspect is important. You can't simply disregard the emotional aspect for it however. That is superficial. The physical aspect comes after/with the emotional baggage. Otherwise it is not love, but rather a crush or base desire. If it's just a case of being attracted to an attractive person, then it's hardly worth the Romance tag.
When I refer to your superficial physicality it's stuff like "At least she got a kiss lol" and "She is just attracted to girls, doesn't mean she must want to be with them or be in love with them". This friends with benefits attitude disgusts me. It reeks of someone who doesn't really care or think of the people involved beyond "That's hot".

And to be clear, I'm not necessarily sure that's what you really think. It's just how you appear from the way you write.

Let's save this overexcited child be flirting in front of her.
Hana, I feel you. I'm sure 1 or 2 liters of blood loss were worth it~

Teasing over confessing? That's next level. I can understand though, that's really cute.

Too soon, eh?
I wonder how her nipples didn't get hard yet from being groped so much. For a boob focused story that's a weird detail to overlook.

Also I hate myself for even seriously thinking about this.

I am precisely saying that it would be great if Sayaka finds out (through a nice make out scene) that she feels friendship (obviously) and physical attraction for Touko, and not the "omg romantic love Touko must be mine or I will be unhappy" kinda thing, and moves on after the itch is over. Extremely normal even for adults, let alone for a teenager. She is a lez, Touko is smoking hot, they are close to each other...one thing leads to the other, so of course, she is going to think she is in love. But maybe she isn't.

Which by the way there is nothing wrong with that, true friendship is typically stronger than romantic love (that's why people either dump their lovers eventually or say that their lovers have become their best friends -- romantic love is, by its very nature, volatile). For the record, her denial phase aside, Yuu at first was kissing Touko simply because kissing her felt nice and she is physically attractive, and not because Yuu was "in love". And she still truly cared for Touko.

I think you need to bring down the romantic idealisms down a notch, my proposal would represent a very happy ending for Sayaka :P

So you just baselessly assume Sayaka isn't actually in love with Touko and also think that talking couldn't resolve that? And what IF the chemistry is there and Sayaka isn't a superficial lesbian who just would go for any girl she feels attractive? What if her love is true and this will hurt her even more? Your "realism" isn't real, it's just a surface view of what a crush is like, completely ignoring everything the manga established.

I didn't say friendship is bad. In fact this only can go down that route in the first place. I doubt Sayaka would break off friendship with Touko over this. Still no reason to have them make out just to satisfy your kiss boner.

Touko kissed Yuu, not the other way around. VERY different. And she didn't let her do it because it felt good or because she found her attractive, like she said herself she didn't feel anything from that. The reason she let Touko do it was because she wanted to see if she could come to feel those special feelings eventually. Also because Yuu has a complex about helping people, and Touko really needed that extended hand. She only started to like it when she developed feelings for Touko (but at that point she needed to deny it to herself).

Your proposal doesn't represent anything good, because you superimpose your own misguided ideas of how this would turn out on the story. Sorry, but your superficial physicality is not how romance works, especially in a fictional medium. So why don't you tone down your homegrown variety of what you think love and relationships are like and instead face the facts of what you are dealing with? ^__^

If a Japanese person comes to America, they will not introduce themselves as "Sakamoto Yusuke", but "Yusuke Sakamoto".

I've heard people introduce themselves both ways (East Asians and Westerners). My school has a Japanese exchange student, and he introduced himself normally (FamilyGiven) instead of reversing (GivenFamily), since he's used to that. Didn't create any confusion, and if it did, it would be resolved if you talk to him.
I don't live in the USA though, so I can't say anything about that.

I'm not talking about something as casual as a introduction at school. Of course you cant expect an exchange student to adapt so fast.
But in business, these kinds of formalities are essential.

Does nobody appreciate good ol' bus driver yuri anymore? Not every woman is an office lady.

"It simply makes no sense" except for reasons I just gave that you chose to sidestep, but whatever I guess. You keep using the word "reversed" like it is going out of style, but recognize that you are in fact the one doing the reversing. Personally I do not find it any more difficult to parse through names whichever way they are written as long as clear rules are set, and that example of yours is hardly equivalent to the matter at hand.

What reasons? "They don't do it to us" and "They dont change it in Korean/Chinese stuff"? Those aren't arguments, those are irrelevant anecdotes. Different cases can be treated differently, because it has nothing to do with each other. If they decide not to do it with one language, that doesn't change the fact it's more convenient. They are either just lazy or have specific reasons, unrelated to the current point.

From the viewpoint of the Western audience for which the localization is made, the Japanese name order is reversed. That is a fact. Because they still refer to them as first and last names, but they dont say them in the same order. If a Japanese person comes to America, they will not introduce themselves as "Sakamoto Yusuke", but "Yusuke Sakamoto".

It doesn't matter what you personally find more difficult, especially because you are probably very used to this from reading lots of online translations or watching subbed anime. For most newcomers or just average readers in the West, this kind of thing is inconvenient. The job of a localization is to make a translation as fluid as possible. If the reader has to wonder whether the name is a first or a last name, they probably failed. So just go by the convenient existing order in the coutnry you publish it in...

My example is equivalent in that both are "retaining the original format", but were changed for convenience. My example was hyperbolic on purpose.

tl;dr: Why the fuck would two intelligent people think this could ever work out?

Well, don't I look like an ass now? lol
Sorry for jumping to the defense right away, but I'm rather used to it by now.

I have honestly no idea why they thought it would work, but then again, Touko was just trying to go after the one she loves blindly, while Yuu wanted to find out what love is... and she did. Just didn't quite work out the way she hoped haha

I personally find this entire explanation too convenient for Touko (you could be her lawyer lol). You are right that she was asking all the time if Yuu was fine with her advances and pointing out that Yuu is too kind and whatnot; but that doesn't count as a positive in this case. Rather, it means she feels on some level, if not very consciously, that what she is doing to Yuu is not right or fair. But because it would satisfy her needs, she went for it anyway. So, in my opinion, she is very self-centered (doesn't mean she doesn't have redeeming qualities though).

Another point is that, in my view, she could kinda sense Yuu was falling for her. Because every time the subject came up even tangentially, she would make "yandere eyes" of panic that scared the bejesus out of Yuu (and me lol). Or, later on, started making clear demands about not being loved back. That scene in the bed where she is on top of Yuu saying stuff about why she doesn't want to be loved could be interpreted as basically a threat. I would go so far as to say she seems to know on some level that Sayaka is into her, and yet does not address the issue head-on.

Anyway, I hope that the manga doesn't go the route of "poor Touko, let's give her a break because sad childhood story is sad". But instead that she truly realizes she was in the wrong here and in a way using both Sayaka and Yuu.

Ironically I see almost nothing wrong with what you said here. I have never asserted that Touko is not selfish. I don't quite agree fully with the "threats", but it is true that she was getting more rejecting of the possibility that she is loved the more Yuu was losing her grip on displaying her interest.

The thing is, that wasn't your original point. You claimed that you even doubt Touko loved Yuu at all, which was my main point of contention. You used her selfishness and actions as a support for that point, but they are not. I explained why these things were not a sign of her not loving Yuu truly. You said she didn't care about Yuu's side, which is simply wrong, but that doesn't mean she isn't selfish or unintentionally cruel, just as you explained here.

You seem to have an overly rigid view of love and physical expressions of love. People can love each other and still not want to be in a relationship. People can be physically attracted to their friends, which they love (or is friendship not love?) and still only want a friendship and not a romantic relationship with them. People can feel that kind of thing for multiple people. And so on and so forth. All I was saying is: it would be nice to have a scene of Sakaya and Touko making out, and then deciding that was it and Sayaka realizing, after satisfying the itch so to speak, that she'd rather move on to date someone else, and Touko realizing Yuu is indeed the one she wants to be with as a partner.

I know it's not gonna happen, even if Nakatani would probably be great at writing such a scene, in no small part because readers lose their shit over grayscale expressions of love. You are kinda making my point for me here.

That's beyond stupid. I get loose relationships and the like where you aren't bound entirely, even polyamory.
But no, friendship is not love. At least not romantic love , ya know? The thing we are talking about? And surprisingly enough, friends don't kiss. You are kinda acting like Sayaka is only interested in Touko physically if you say something so... ugh. Even if she were someone who doesn't want a "relationship", she sure as hell would want Touko to love her back!

You have made no sensible argument as to why that kiss would benefit either of them. This screams to me "I just want to see them kiss because its hot and I don't care how it affects the characters". Sayaka loves Touko and clearly does want to be in a relationship with her if she confesses and Touko reciprocates her feelings. Their current friendship is painful to her, because she has to suppress her true feelings. Love is not "an itch" you can sate with an empty kiss and then say "I'm satisfied lol". That is a superficial crush at best and would mean you never cared about what the other person felt anyway. So by your own words "It's not love if you don't want the best for the other person or care about their feelings".

My view of love is not too rigid, you are just completely missing the point of what romantic feelings are.

PS: I am not even saying this can't happen. The kiss may happen. But if that is the case it won't be a good thing. It won't be a happy moment. It will be used for the sake of affirming Touko's feelings and hurt Sayaka dearly in the process. Nakatani might use this device, but I don't see why anybody would want that. Are you even interested in romance or do you just want to see your favorite girls kiss? So surface...

last edited at Oct 29, 2018 5:15AM

^ I still think a lot of this discussion (everybody, all along) fails to come to complete terms with the bizarre asymmetry of this basic relationship, and how it makes rendering any standard value judgements about Yuu or Touko’s behavior so problematic. (I don’t see such failure as a flaw in people’s thinking, just that the premise of the story makes such judgements inevitably run off the rails sooner or later.)

Two people, A & B. A is in love with B, and B is not and cannot ever be in love with A.
Pretty much the formula for a dysfunctional relationship, right? But that’s exactly what Touko wants, and in fact insists upon.

So every time we try to say, “A person in a relationship in such circumstances should . . .,” we run into the problem that the required absence of reciprocity makes this an extremely abnormal relationship, and the basis of the judgment eventually breaks down.

BugDevil, I think some readers look at certain kisses in yuri manga not as equivalent to real-life physical intimacy, but more like, I dunno, honorary knighthoods, or the bag of gold a king gives a hero in a fantasy story—a concrete sign in recognition of a job well-done, and with the kiss more of a reward for off-brand shipping readers than a significant event in the storyworld. :)

It is supposed to be a bad relationship that doesn't work and everybody knows that.
The fact that Touko loves Yuu however is not affected by how bad their relationship was up to this point. Whether she can stay in a relationship is a different matter, but her love is genuine.
I'm sorry, I don't see why we should be unable to judge an abnormal relationship. Do you really think that their thought processes haven't been shown clearly enough to still judge them? Every action and emotion has been shown to us, the reader, so we can definitely judge it objectively. The characters however can't.

As for the kiss thing...
I get stuff like playful kisses on the hand or forehead as signs of often non-romantic or familial affection. Heck even a peck on the cheek in some extreme cases. But a real kiss? That isn't a reward you give to a person you don't love, especially not if you actually value their feelings. It may very well be that some readers view it that way, but that way of thinking is pretty cruel, if not objectifying. We don't live in the ages anymore where a princess is a reward to a knight who has done a great deed. Equal people do not think that way.
And if it has "no significance to the storyworld" then don't do it in the first place. They should make some fanart of it if they need it so bad, but don't expect it to happen in the actual story lol

PS: I know you don't think that way and just explained their way of thinking. I'm just disagreeing with that viewpoint.

last edited at Oct 28, 2018 4:46PM

My my, I don't know why I bother. Guess I need to be really upfront here. I have been sarcastic and joking when I said nobody here would read yuri hentai. For crying out loud there is an NSFW tag and a Insane amounts of sex tag on this site. I wondered if your clueless reply was an act, but obviously not... So yeah, you don't get sarcasm, even if you allegedly know how to use it.

You are lost in wishful thinking. Even the gorge that opened between Yuu and Touko is only them not being able to figure out their BLATANTLY OBVIOUS love for each other and position. The audience is supposed to know what it is, while the characters are in denial...

Chill. I'm not lost in wishful thinking, because I know that Nakatani wouldn't have any other ending except YuuxTouko, otherwise sensitive readers would lose their shit and riot lol

I am convinced that Yuu loves Touko and has for a long time. But I'm not convinced at all that Touko loves Yuu. Maybe we have different definitions of love? For me, love is not infatuation, it's wanting what's best for your partner and taking their feelings into account in your day to day life. So Touko likes Yuu's company and is physically attracted to Yuu of course, at least partly due to deeming her a "safe target" for her affections. But up to this point in the manga, I wasn't even sure Touko sees Yuu as her own person so to speak, otherwise, she wouldn't be so shocked that Yuu could return her feelings. I think her whole "feeling bad" now about her requests from Yuu is exactly because, for the first time, she can see Yuu as an individual whose feelings she needs to consider in the equation.

Also, in my opinion, Touko is complex but only as much as Yuu or Sayaka. However, unlike the two of them, she is overly self-centered.

You can't claim that the other options are totally possible and legit and then say you aren't engaging in wishful thinking. Choose one lol (that sensitive readers part is plain stupid, and you know that)

I feel like a lot of people here misunderstand Touko a great deal. The one she didn't allow to be her own person is herself. She always saw Yuu as her own person and respected her boundaries (every single time she did something (except for the first kiss) to Yuu she got permission first). She even questioned why Yuu even went along with her selfish request. Touko's love is absolutely proven and she does want the best for Yuu.

The issue is that she doesn't want to be loved, but in the first place, she assumed Yuu couldn't love her. I've said it before and I say it again, it only came to this point where Touko appears to be selfish and self-centered and cruel, because Yuu was too selfless and went with the flow. Because Yuu didn't put up any resistance or asserted herself, Touko just ran in open doors.

She considered Yuu's feelings, Yuu just didn't SHOW her true feelings. That's why Yuu's confession shook her so badly, because she realized how much she hurt her without being able to know.

The moment Yuu would have disagreed with anything she would have accepted that. And as we see right now, even after Yuu broke her promise, Touko still yearns for her. The memories they made and the love she felt didn't disappear. Only her mental mess prevents her from accepting it.

Will it really make you happy to have an empty kiss like that?

Well...yes? Kisses don't always have to mean "I love you, let's stay together forever" you know. It's not an empty kiss, they have been close friends for all this time and Touko and Yuu are not dating yet.

You don't get it, do you? A kiss not shared between lovers or people who love each other doesn't mean anything. To consider it a "reward" to be kissed by your crush despite not being loved by them is plain terrible. At best it will be a short-lived high with an extreme low. At worst it will just make her hate herself.
Friends don't kiss. It is meaningless and detrimental to all parties involved. Unless you are extremely superficial or only interested in the physical, this kind of thing is not wanted.

last edited at Oct 28, 2018 4:04PM

That's not overlocalizing anything, that's normal. Every manga that keeps honorifics or the reverse name structure is the odd one out. I guess a case for honorifics can be made (as it often is really hard to make the subtleties work otherwise), but reversing the names? Come on.

Changing the name order for Japanese people has always been somewhat strange when you think about it though, it is not like they do it to us. Furthermore, Chinese and Korean names for example typically retain their last-name-first order even in the west. I suppose this is just something that has stuck because tradition/convention?

It simply makes no sense to keep the reversed order in a Western release. It's not like honorifics or self-contained words (like kimono) which should not be changed, because meaning would be lost.
It's just which name you say or write first... there is no reason to keep it reversed. When a character's full name is said, what would be lost if you do it in the Western order? Nothing. It's just more convenient to read.

It's kinda like saying localized manga should write words from up to down in single lines like this
E
x
a
m
p
l
e
Because it is more accurate to how they use their characters. Inconvenient.

I can't help but think Kasumi really loves Sakurako's love handles.

Seri and Shouko are taking it slow I see, but that's cool. They don't get nearly as much focus, so it will take a while. I'm surprised the spicy curry didn't do much to Seri, usually you'd expect an overreaction, especially from a rich girl. lol

Yeah, it's as gay as the source.
That said, I'm not the biggest fan of it. Ignoring the lousy cleaning/redrawing (or the lack of) and typesetting that most adaptions suffer from, there are some things that bug me.

I think they over localized the thing. I'm not a fan of reversed name and I miss the honorifics. Also, some fonts, especially the one used of the cover, are somewhat questionable.

That being said, I will still buy the next volumes just because it's Futaribeya.

That's not overlocalizing anything, that's normal. Every manga that keeps honorifics or the reverse name structure is the odd one out. I guess a case for honorifics can be made (as it often is really hard to make the subtleties work otherwise), but reversing the names? Come on.

The only stuff I didn't see cleaned and redrawn were sound effects. They just put the English version below it, as it's so often done.

last edited at Oct 28, 2018 5:41AM

Yeah Namori is a renown troll who went into a series with the goal of "making every pairing possible" and making it yuri-bait to boot. This horrible hell demon created YuruYuri only for her sick pleasure, every chapter a new drop of fire in the oil tank that is her fandom. And after she set everything ablaze... she went on an indefinite hiatus with the seires. No I'm not just salty about that last part!

BV doesn't get jokes or sarcasm. Please be gentle with this dense soul.

Oh, come on. I do think the story is pointing that it will be Yuu x Touko endgame. But it sure ain't shouting at this point. Someone mentioned there could be a troll ending Sayaka x Touko and Yuu x Forever Alone and I can see it happening (not that I want it to, I just think it would be rewarding for Sayaka to make out with Touko at least once and then move on).

Again, if Touko was seriously in love with Yuu, she wouldn't say she can't return her feelings, despite being fully aware that it hurts Yuu. Her emotions are blurry at best, and it's hard to know to which direction they will tilt. Like I wouldn't even be shocked if it turns out she doesn't want to date anyone because she wants to focus on herself and finding out who she really is etc.

Everything hinges on this Kyoto trip I believe lol "Sayaka, ganbatte!"

It has never stopped shouting my friend. There is literally not a single indicator for any other ship. You are lost in wishful thinking. Even the gorge that opened between Yuu and Touko is only them not being able to figure out their BLATANTLY OBVIOUS love for each other and position. The audience is supposed to know what it is, while the characters are in denial...

Touko is a complex character. She is seriously in love with Yuu, but she has severe issues with her self-image and made her love for Yuu hinge on a twisted promise. She has to overcome the mess of her own creation, but there was never any doubt that she loves Yuu. Seriously, I can't stress this enough. "Not being able to return your feelings" does not mean "I dont love you" in this context.
You may have a point on the "not dating anyone" at least for a while part.

And lastly... I just want you to answer honestly. How would Sayaka getting a kiss from Touko be a "reward" in this case? That will only hurt her more in the long run. We know this will end with Touko x Yuu and that Touko won't respond to Sayaka's feelings. Masochism is fine, but why do you need to hurt the characters more than necessary? Touko will feel like she betrayed Yuu, Sayaka will then realize that Touko doesn't love her and the kiss meant nothing... It's horrible. Is it for the sake of fanservice? Will it really make you happy to have an empty kiss like that?

The part that you put under "" is basically the kind of thing I encountered in most shoujo-ai manga I've read.

Please drop the "Shoujo Ai". This is a yuri community, we actually know what we are reading.

Yuri is just a subset of shoujo-ai.

facepalm
No. No it's not. Please BV. I have heard people make the false claim that Shoujo Ai is a subset of Yuri, but you managed to somehow be even more wrong ?
There is only Yuri. Shoujo Ai is a made up term in the West. It doesn't exist. Everything you ever thought was "Shoujo Ai" is labeled Yuri in Japan. Deal with it.

I have no desire to see those two kiss in the slightest. Maybe in an AU spin-off chapter, but at this point that is basically just like bashing their heads against a wall for a few minutes. A painful dead end.

Queer sidekicks/best friends/third wheels, etc. are shipping catnip to a significant proportion of the yuri manga readership, no matter how loudly and consistently the story as a whole is shouting “IT’S NOT GOING TO BE THEM! NOT EVER! I MEAN IT!”

This seems to be especially the case when the character in question is forthright about their same-sex desires (at least to themselves) while the MCs are doing some sort of “but we’re both girls/I’m not a lesbian, I only love you/how do two girls even have sex?/our love can never be,” etc. song and dance in the main plot.

What can I say? I like to stick to the canon as close as possible in all areas. The author wants Touko and Yuu together and so it shall be. Shipping the third wheel is the same in all sexual directions though, mind you. I've seen that happen in lots of straight romance too. Good ol' love triangle never fails. Whether intended or not, someone will want it to happen.

I'm pleasantly surprised that the "but we are both girls" thing is becoming less and less of a main theme and only either an initial apprehension or a minor observation (unless homophobia or social status are the main topic of the story). I mean YagaKimi is the best example. Neither Touko nor Yuu have been hung up on that for longer than maybe one chapter. Especially Touko didnt care, the moment she fell for Yuu, gender was meaningless to her.

The part that you put under "" is basically the kind of thing I encountered in most shoujo-ai manga I've read.

Please drop the "Shoujo Ai". This is a yuri community, we actually know what we are reading.

last edited at Oct 27, 2018 4:37PM

Have I been out-sarcastic'd or is this true denseness? Someone better avoid the NSFW tag on this site. And now you got me to spam too. Dang.

When is the new manga chapter out? Nakatani has hinted that Touko still misses Yuu (a good sign that things will work out in the end), but I wonder whether Sayaka will try to make out with Touko at the Kyoto trip. I both want it to happen and not. Maybe we could get that scene, it's a one-off thing but Touko still ends up with Yuu? lol

Woah, straight to the make out? Confessing is already a stretch, so let's not jump too many steps ahead.

Don't people ever drink on these school trips? lol
All I'm saying is, before the end of this manga we need to at least have a Sakaya x Touko kissing scene. While at the same time not preventing the Yuu x Touko endgame, since Yuu needs to be happy.

Yeah not gonna happen. Japan takes the minor and drinking thing way more serious than the West. Sayaka and Touko are also honor students so that goes double for them.

I have no desire to see those two kiss in the slightest. Maybe in an AU spin-off chapter, but at this point that is basically just like bashing their heads against a wall for a few minutes. A painful dead end.

last edited at Oct 27, 2018 3:34PM

^ Congratulations on your excellent powers of foresight, but to the question, "What will be the future consequences of Maki's knowledge of the Touko-Yuu relationship?" no one can be blamed for failing to foresee that thirty-odd chapters later the correct answer would still be: "nothing."

Like I said, it's vague. Not quite on the level of precognition yet, but maybe there is room to level up snorts

Maki's role was more or less fulfilled when he made Yuu question whether she is also like him. When he said that she really loved/cared for Touko that set off the chain reaction, making her question what her "normal" actually means. He was an essential step for the early part of the development and now he's just there, like any other side-character.

I don't think anybody could have predicted that far ahead. It's just that it was quite hysteric to jump to such conclusions back then.

When is the new manga chapter out? Nakatani has hinted that Touko still misses Yuu (a good sign that things will work out in the end), but I wonder whether Sayaka will try to make out with Touko at the Kyoto trip. I both want it to happen and not. Maybe we could get that scene, it's a one-off thing but Touko still ends up with Yuu? lol

Woah, straight to the make out? Confessing is already a stretch, so let's not jump too many steps ahead.

I read in Japanese Yagakimi tweets, that part “Eroi” was urged to make more “erotic” to hear by Nakatani Nio to Minako Kotobuki. They really made that scene so good. The combination of silence and a bit of piano music, it’s so anticipating and heart thumping, that I almost felt breathless in excitement. I guess some of the viewers too.

They keep nailing the good part actually. Even the part when Maki confronted and asked Yuu if she was dating Touko, how Yuu perceived the people might thought. It’s so dark, reflecting her fears and worries.

Just I noticed, this Maki in anime adaptation kinda gives me the creep. Lol.

I see, guess it makes sense for the author to know best. Glad they let Nakatani have so much creative influence.

Yeah, I said the same thing, it's quite nice how they portray many things visually. The manga, whie being very good at pacing and subtlety, often lacks those more elaborate visual moments.

Maki's smile is a bit creepy at times admittedly.

You've got to remember that at that point in the story people were not yet used to the way Nakatani habitually subverts or puts an original spin on familiar tropes, and in general is just a far more subtle and low-key storyteller than is generally the case in manga.

In this particular example, it was really much more reasonable at the time to assume that Maki's knowledge of the Yuu-Touko romance would represent at least an implicit danger hanging over their situation, rather than how it actually has played out so far, i.e., never being mentioned ever again.

In this episode we also got some strong hints that Sayaka was quite aware of something odd about the nature and extent of Touko's feelings toward Yuu and that she wasn't entirely happy about it (as in that "Touko will come to her senses soon" line). Again, what at the time seemed to be very clear foreshadowings of a love triangle/jealous-rival conflict have turned out to be anything but.

At first glance, the basic character-types and setting of this story are so familiar in this genre that it has taken readers quite some time to adjust their expectations in regard to how events are actually likely to unfold.

What I remember is that I caught on pretty much immediately that he wouldn't do anything bad. Can't explain this very well, but I often predict things rather well based on gut feeling, at least in vague terms. That image when he ran away didn't give off the maliciousness an author would put in for a bad character who blackmails and it also didn't show the typical signs of a love rival. I just couldn't see Maki as a negative influence. I thought he was going to keep the secret with him and get into situations where he has to hide his knowledge, but then he ended up confronting Yuu rather directly haha

Trope savviness can be a blessing or a curse I suppose, but when you look at things from the author's perspective the true purpose or development will soon crystalize.

More post-timeskip art please so I don't have to fend off the cops at my door

I'm glad they didn't make it a cliffhanger in the anime. There's no reason to make it some shocking plot twist considering how little relevance it has afterwards.

Oh it's absolutely for the best they did it, I just can't help but laugh thinking about those drama queens back then.